"Dirty Selling Trick"

76 replies
****Not recommended for Internet marketing Until You Read The Full Thread****

This is my personal story that I've experienced while doing one of my project in University.
While I was in my first year, I enrolled myself in the 'Principle Of Entrepreneurship" course and was told to start doing small business as part of the project.(Just like one will do in the APPRENTICE tv series.)

After much consideration, my friends and I came out with the idea to sell chocolate drinks.The price for a cup was RM2($0.68).
During one of the selling days, 2 girls came by to my stall.Out of the 2,only 1 wanted a cup of chocolate.Thinking that I could start to apply a selling tip that I've learned, i assumed myself that the order was 2 cups .So i made 2 cups of chocolate. (I made sure that the 2 girls didn't notice what I was doing)

After finished making the drinks, "Ok.girls here are your 2 chocolate drinks".
The girls were stunned.Immediately but politely, one of the girl responded "but we only asked for 1 ".
Acting like I made a mistake,"Oops..I thought the order was for 2."
In the end the girls responded, "Ok.that's fine.we'll pay for the 2 cups".

That's it.Case close. I sold more of the chocolates using this technique.
If you think that this technique won't WORK in IM,here's a perfect story to enlighten your '"confusion".
Few months ago I bought an ebook for $7.Read and enjoy it.
Then i started to receive newsletter from the ebook author.Did i asked for it?NO.The author included me in his list and started sending newsletter without me asking for it.This is similar to the technique mentioned above.Offer something that your customers MIGHT REJECT and DID NOT ASK in the first place, and then CONVINCE them that they should buy it for their won benefit.This is hardcore selling techniques that most salespeople are applying.I was in that field once.So it will work.tHE QUESTION IS,HOW CREATIVE are you to apply it in your IM?

Don't MISUSE this technique.I'm only sharing my story here.Not recommending anyone to FOLLOW it.
****Not recommended for Internet marketing Until You Read The Full Thread****
#dirty selling trick #exploitation #unethical
  • Profile picture of the author SpotOn
    Yeah So will I have to charge my customers for something they didn't order? I don't think it works like that in the online world. or maybe say, oops! I sent you an additional ebook so get back to paypal and pay me an extra $27?

    :-)
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    • Profile picture of the author Dixiebelle
      Originally Posted by Ravivaarman Batumalai View Post

      Maybe you can use the technique in real life presentation.Not recommended for Internet marketing.

      This is an internet marketing forum. I don't understand why someone would post something that is not recommended for internet marketing. Surely, there is a forum where your recommendation is suitable.

      Dixie
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Taylor
    I wouldn't use it in real life, either. That's using your customers and it's exploiting them by using a mind game just to move product.

    Emotional and mental guidance is what we do, but these should be used for the customer's benefit and not only our own.

    Just because something works doesn't mean it's a good thing to do.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jared Alberghini
    ****Not recommended for Internet marketing****

    I thought this was an IM/make money online forum... apparently not...

    - Jared
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  • Profile picture of the author Jared Alberghini
    Originally Posted by Ravivaarman Batumalai View Post

    Yes Jared, this is IM money making forum.If you're creative enough you can use the same technique in your IM too.
    but I thought you said : ****Not recommended for Internet marketing****

    I'm confused...
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  • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
    Hey bubba, what goes around comes back in yer face...
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  • Profile picture of the author ebizman87
    I wrote ****Not recommended for Internet marketing**** due to some complains and criticism from other IMarketers.Actually most IM are using this technique indirectly.Here's a perfect story to enlighten your '"confusion".
    Few months ago I bought an ebook for $7.Read and enjoy it.
    Then i started to receive newsletter from the ebook author.Did i asked for it?NO.The author included me in his list and started sending newsletter without me asking for it.This is similar to the technique mentioned above.Offer something that your customers MIGHT REJECT and DID NOT ASK in the first place, and then CONVINCE them that they should buy it.This is hardcore selling techniques that most salespeople are applying.I was in that field once.So it will work.tHE QUESTION IS,HOW CREATIVE are you to apply it in your IM?
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    • Profile picture of the author Floyd Fisher
      Originally Posted by Ravivaarman Batumalai View Post

      I wrote ****Not recommended for Internet marketing**** due to some complains and criticism from other IMarketers.Actually most IM are using this technique indirectly.Here's a perfect story to enlighten your '"confusion".
      Few months ago I bought an ebook for $7.Read and enjoy it.
      Then i started to receive newsletter from the ebook author.Did i asked for it?NO.The author included me in his list and started sending newsletter without me asking for it.This is similar to the technique mentioned above.Offer something that your customers MIGHT REJECT and DID NOT ASK in the first place, and then CONVINCE them that they should buy it.This is hardcore selling techniques that most salespeople are applying.I was in that field once.So it will work.tHE QUESTION IS,HOW CREATIVE are you to apply it in your IM?
      Close but no cigar.

      The technique similar to what you're talking about in the OP is to secretly sign them up to a paid newsletter (with the first one being free) at the same time they are purchasing other stuff, often called 'forced hidden continuity'. It's also illegal in the US btw.

      What the guy did in your example is called 'overdelivering', and is highly recommended and encouraged.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jared Alberghini
    So... your marketing point is to make your customer feel uncomfortable, and force a sale on them that they didn't want? now that doesn't seem very nice does it?

    and before you reply... this has no similarities as being on a newsletter as you tried to link it to...

    I don't care if you say 'it works' or not... it's not something I would personally do as a marketing professional.

    - Jared
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  • Profile picture of the author fred67
    Not a great reflection on your integrity though is it?
    I'd have probably 'accidentally' spilled the 2nd cup of coffee just to see the look on your face :-(
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    • Profile picture of the author bladerunner
      Correct me if im wrong but isn't sending emails to people that have not opted in to receive them 'spamming' and will get you a ban if reported?
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  • Profile picture of the author bladerunner
    Thought so, maybe its not such a good idea then to post stuff like this, as any naive newcomers may read it and jump in head first and get themselves banned before they even get started... I must say though it is a good tactic if not a little devious.
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  • Profile picture of the author ebizman87
    hmm..you're right.That's why I wrote "****Not recommended for Internet marketing Until You Read The Full Thread****" in the first place.Anyway I'll be more careful with my next posts.
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  • Profile picture of the author fred67
    Originally Posted by Ravivaarman Batumalai View Post

    Lol..I would have asked you to pay for it ..
    And you think I would have??? :-)
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  • Well...

    We could make posts on a thread that the thread starter didn't ask for and would not want. Maybe he'll read them.

    "Don't MISUSE this technique. I'm only sharing... Not recommending anyone to FOLLOW it."



    Michael
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  • Profile picture of the author mecantone
    Sounds like forced continuity.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike McBride
      Originally Posted by mecantone View Post

      Sounds like forced continuity.
      NO, sounds like a sleazy trick being put forward. If you want to know HOW sleazy, just look at the first reply. :rolleyes:
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      • Profile picture of the author joblythe
        Originally Posted by Mike McBride View Post

        NO, sounds like a sleazy trick being put forward. If you want to know HOW sleazy, just look at the first reply. :rolleyes:
        Mike - that one's going for a world record! It'll be creeping up on Waggers by Wednesday!!
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      • Profile picture of the author Glenn Grundberg
        Originally Posted by Mike McBride View Post

        NO, sounds like a sleazy trick being put forward. If you want to know HOW sleazy, just look at the first reply. :rolleyes:
        Indeed- I'm with Mike here.

        Scumbag selling like this is baaaad juju, Rav. If you had tried it on me, you would have wound up drinking your second "chocolate drink" yourself or throwing it out, and then where would your margins be? Hmm?

        You may want to step back here and view your post from a third-party position. You aren't doing yourself any good here bragging about cheating your customers, which is exactly how it looks from my view...

        I'll definitely be watching now!

        Regards,

        Gman
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        • Profile picture of the author polimedia
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          • Profile picture of the author Glenn Grundberg
            Originally Posted by polimedia View Post

            You are sitting on a remarkably large load of assumptions.

            There is nothing wrong with offering. He didn't FORCE anyone anything.

            He offered something, which they were free to take or not, and pay for or not.

            This makes business sense, especially if the costs are small, and the margins large. If it costs him 1 cent to make the drinks and he sells them for a dollar, he can offer about 100 free cups that get refused for every one that gets paid.

            I think your reaction to this, and interpretation of fact, is more telling about your own interior tensions and issues with marketing than about the OP.
            You don't get it, do ya Poli?

            This is what he said in the OP:

            (I made sure that the 2 girls didn't notice what I was doing)......Acting like I made a mistake,"Oops..I thought the order was for 2."
            The fact is that he hid his actions from the customer and then used another key word here: "Acting". Get it now? That's subterfuge. Also known as a LIE. Scumbag marketing as far as I'm concerned. A CLEAR attempt to "FORCE" the sale. That's not really subject to "interpretation" as you term it.

            And since you chose to personalize your response I'll give you a little tip...I honestly don't give a Fiddler's F**k what you think about my "Inner Tensions" or "Issues With Marketing".:p

            Peace!
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            • Profile picture of the author polimedia
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              • Profile picture of the author Glenn Grundberg
                Originally Posted by polimedia View Post

                If you equate acting with lieing, you have got to be living on some other planet. Possibly one without TV.

                Do you hold yourself to the same standard by the way ? If you run a website, is for instance all the php on it also available as a text file ? Is this displayed at the top of the page for the user to see ? Just a little example.
                WHAAAAAT?

                WTF are you babbling about? PHP available as text? How exactly do you equate server-side web code with the shell game the OP played on his customers? And "Acting" IS Lying...but it's all in the context. On TV it's EXPECTED, indeed, it's ENCOURAGED. It's Contextual.

                But when you step up to a perfume counter to buy a bottle of Liz for your sweetie you sure as HELL don't expect them to ring up TWO and then stand there looking at you expectantly, now DO YOU.

                Dude, you just made my ignore list for sure. Time for some introspection on your critical thinking faculty.

                And if you want some text to go along with your PHP, just right click on this very page, and hit "View Source", and you can see as much as you want.

                ROFLMAO.

                Cya
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                • Profile picture of the author polimedia
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                  • Profile picture of the author Glenn Grundberg
                    You seem to be of the opinion that a lie is malum prohibitum - bad or good by circumstance. This makes you a crook outright.
                    Coming from any other Warrior, this would hurt my feelings, but from you, Troll-Boy?

                    LOL.

                    Ad Hominem THIS.:p
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                    • Profile picture of the author Jared Alberghini
                      Originally Posted by Glenn Grundberg View Post

                      Coming from any other Warrior, this would hurt my feelings, but from you, Troll-Boy?

                      LOL.

                      Ad Hominem THIS.:p
                      lol... Troll-Boy... I like that nickname... remember people... don't feed the trolls... they feed on your precious wasted time.
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  • Profile picture of the author ebizman87
    Thankz for the "compliment" guys..Perhaps you guys should reread this,

    "Don't MISUSE this technique.I'm only sharing my story here.Not recommending anyone to FOLLOW it."
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  • Profile picture of the author Diana Lane
    I'd have sold one hot chocolate with a smile to a customer who might well make multiple return visits in the future, rather than two to a customer who probably won't be back because 'that's the place where they can't even take your order without screwing up'.

    I know which transaction would be likely to be worth more to me.
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    • Profile picture of the author ebizman87
      Originally Posted by Diana Lane View Post

      I'd have sold one hot chocolate with a smile to a customer who might well make multiple return visits in the future, rather than two to a customer who probably won't be back because 'that's the place where they can't even take your order without screwing up'.

      I know which transaction would be likely to be worth more to me.
      For 2 days business that I ran through with my friends,that technique was extremely profitable.We were not planning to run it forever.
      I also learned a good lesson to NOT to use it for expensive products.It may backfire.But I wonder why are you not willing to invest an extra $0.68 cent for a delicious cold chocolate on a SUNNY day?And it only cost me $0.10 cent to make it.Even if the girls didn't accept the 2nd chocolate,know what!!I would have paid for the cup and enjoyed it myself.
      Case close.
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  • Profile picture of the author ctutt
    I won't have anything like this associated with me or my business. I feel it's dishonest and unethical and it really pisses me off when I'm treated that way. So, I certainly would not want to treat anyone else that way.
    Charles
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Taylor
    Bottom line, the OP even called this a "dirty trick". It's simply a way to part a sucker from his money. No care is given for the customer. It's just a trick to get greenbacks...that is all.

    Now, had the second cup been made accidentally, perhaps he could just have given it to the customer's friend. You think that may have produced good will? Or maybe offered it at a discount. Or just pitched it in the trash.

    Sure, it worked. But it evidently made the girls uncomfortable...they probably sensed they were being manipulated. But, as nice polite girls go, they didn't want to embarrass Ravivaarman or feel put on the spot, so they bought the second cup.

    Some used car salesmen use tactics that make their customers feel gross on the inside, too. We don't want to be this way, do we? We definitely don't have to do this to make money.
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  • Profile picture of the author Loren Woirhaye
    This reminds me of Elmer Wheeler's old stuff. He wrote
    a book called sizzlemanship and in it he writes about going
    to Cuba in the 1920s and how the street kids would come
    up and put a bracelet on your wrist and get you to buy it.

    In this case the OP didn't ask to be paid for the second
    cup. I wouldn't have paid for it but I would take the
    2 for the price of one and then he would have my goodwill.

    Many times when I have bought info-products I get free
    bonuses not mentioned - and that makes me less likely
    to request a refund if the main product is of borderline
    usefulness to me.

    The nearest analogy is the type of sleazy, underhanded
    forced-coninuity used by online porn kings. Since with
    such an approach you will get many charge-backs you
    need to find a very tolerant merchant-account provider.
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  • Profile picture of the author BizBooks
    A family member of mine once went to a "holistic doctor", for $250 consultation fee.

    as we left the "doctor" said "my secretary already left, here are the suppliments you need to take- they were charged to your credit card... don't eat any fruit wiwithout soaking it in the solution, take the pills twice a day...."

    $500 in "medicine" charged in addition to the $250...

    and of course i was too shocked to respond.... we still have the vitamins in the closet!

    I guess the doctor uses your technique!


    it's NOT Honest...
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  • Profile picture of the author polimedia
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    • Profile picture of the author Michael Taylor
      Originally Posted by polimedia View Post


      The OP didn't charge anything. Not commensurate .
      Bull plop. Read the original post. The girls paid for two drinks. If he didn't charge for the second, they would only have paid for one.
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  • Profile picture of the author DavidJohnny
    Wow, legalized stealing.

    Maybe there's a book here somewhere.

    "How To Take Advantage of Your Customers"
    "New Ways To Prey Upon People That Have Soft Hearts"
    "How I Made My Fortune By Taking Advantage of Others"
    "There's a Sucker Born Every Minute - Here's How To Find Them"
    "Lose Friends and Manipulate People"
    "How To Prosper From Others Kindness"

    I guess it just depends on how you were brought up.
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    • Profile picture of the author pavondunbar
      This is obviously a GREAT technique...

      If...

      You want to scam...screw...f**k over...hoodwink...

      someone...

      Not cool in my book.

      I would NEVER do this to a client...

      But to each his own...

      I guess...

      Pavon
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    • Profile picture of the author clint48
      What if the girl that got the extra chocolate drink thought it was the best chocolate drink she had ever tasted and started coming back to get more. Would that make any difference?

      I guess she was still tricked into getting the chocolate, but she wasn't hurt in any way, she was actually helped, because she found a better chocolate in this case.

      Clint
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  • Profile picture of the author Jared Alberghini
    Yes Pavon, to each his own... take this a marketing lesson for you to decide whether or not you are on the dark side or the side that fights for justice... It's your own choice...

    - Jared
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    • Profile picture of the author Jared Alberghini
      Originally Posted by rock View Post

      Should we start jumping on anyone that starts explaining his latest ad copy techniques?
      It's completely up to you to take this step... if you see some un-ethical marketing going on that it's main purpose is to deceive people, well, please feel free to report those immoral techniques. There are plenty of unethical marketers doing business in this forum that need to be moderated... please do your job if you find these unethical people.

      - Jared
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  • Profile picture of the author valerieSONORA
    Poor Mike, got an infraction from the infraction rampager?

    LOL Glenn I'm shocked you haven't gotten infracted yet. Or maybe you have and it ran out. I think the troll (polimedia) who's been here 3 whopping days has infracted half the ppl here. Which unfortunately for him will make the super mods give him a close look and have no one do biz through him-ever.

    As for the OP, if I were one of those girls, I would not have paid for the extra drink and said drink it yourself.

    I like the idea of you writing an "how to take advantage of good hearted ppl" ebook. Maybe it will sell well.

    And what do you mean by use is carefully? Make the chocolate drink carefully?
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  • Profile picture of the author Ernie Lo
    I think you are SCUM for doing this

    Have a nice day.
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    • Profile picture of the author Dave Everett
      I didn't realise there were so many people on this forum with nothing better to do than tear a guy apart. All he did was relate a story and ask for an opinion - what he gets is a character assassination!

      The practice of selling a product and adding the purchaser to an email list at the same time is a standard tactic in internet marketing and one of the most popular methods of building an email list. Nothing wrong with it at all.

      Suppose I'll get torn apart now for going against the WF members...
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      • Profile picture of the author Ernie Lo
        Umm what are you talking about?

        We are ripping him apart because, he is manipulating customers and pretending that they ordered 2 of an item, when they only ordered 1...and then hoping they agree to pay for the 2 items.



        Originally Posted by dalepubs View Post

        I didn't realise there were so many people on this forum with nothing better to do than tear a guy apart. All he did was relate a story and ask for an opinion - what he gets is a character assassination!

        The practice of selling a product and adding the purchaser to an email list at the same time is a standard tactic in internet marketing and one of the most popular methods of building an email list. Nothing wrong with it at all.

        Suppose I'll get torn apart now for going against the WF members...
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        • Profile picture of the author Dave Everett
          Originally Posted by Ernie Lonardo View Post

          Umm what are you talking about?

          We are ripping him apart because, he is manipulating customers and pretending that they ordered 2 of an item, when they only ordered 1...and then hoping they agree to pay for the 2 items.
          Sometimes it worked and sometimes it didn't. Everyone has an individual choice. They can pay for the second cup or tell him what he can do with it. Another place and time he would be applauded for being entrepreneurial, taking the initiative and generating extra sales.
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          • Profile picture of the author Ernie Lo
            To be honest, I cant believe someone of your age is actually condoning this type of behaviour...but ah well you have the right to condone it.... I just think its terrible...

            Anyway... how long do you think until customers work out what his doing?

            He WILL get caught eventually and if it ruins his reputation, he deserves it.



            Originally Posted by dalepubs View Post

            Sometimes it worked and sometimes it didn't. Everyone has an individual choice. They can pay for the second cup or tell him what he can do with it. Another place and time he would be applauded for being entrepreneurial, taking the initiative and generating extra sales.
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        • Profile picture of the author SylviaHeins
          Reading this thread I thought "wow, this is getting taken very seriously. I'm surprised". Mostly surprised because in a world where NLP is a prized and revered technology of those in the "inner circle", how could this be so much of a problem? I survey blogs and pages of folks who write about/sell tactics of persuasion, soft but effective manipulation, mind control, speed seduction, nlp and there seems to be absolutely no moral questioning or ethical consideration of their tactics. It's a rather nihilistic crowd, really. Once, in a moment of consternation when viewing a post of one of those loathsome and audacious "seducer people" (who treat women like stupid creatures, pavlovian dogs) I came up with the phrase: "nlp in the hands of a marketer is like a nuclear bomb in the hands of a dictator". It's silly and too severe, but still, the lines from my viewpoint are very blurry. Not that I'm offering any alternative paradigm, mind you, just an observation.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jeffery
    The shame of it all. Were any orphans subject to your tactic?

    Do not know what the University rules were, but you could have made tons more money selling your beverage served by famous celebrities without doing anything immoral. All proceeds to charity!

    Your money would have come from the media rights to the event!! Funny photos of customers and celebrities together with chocolate mustaches on a hot day.

    The chance of a lifetime for invited orphans. Never ending goodwill and you go home at night feeling good about yourself.

    I'm pretty sure that your Uni Professor would love to see this thread? Why not ask him/her to visit this thread and be the judge - the final authority?

    Jeffery 100% :-)
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  • Package it any way you want, lying to a customer is not virtue. It can be highly profitable and some people are OK with that, but it is not virtue.

    You only lie to yourself if you think lying to a customer is a virtue. That creates 2 lies where there was only one before.

    There must be a karma thing with this somewhere. But I must admit that I see an awful lot of lying to customers out there.

    I find the line between persuasion techniques and outright lying fascinating. (Such a line can actually be made.) But I am also fascinated by the lengths some people undertake in lying to themselves to rationalize lack of virtue.

    "There's a sucker born every minute..." (often incorrectly attributed to P.T. Barnum)

    That goes for marks and for those who lie to themselves.

    btw- Anyone interested in buying a bridge? I have two of those big suckers for the price of one.

    Michael
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    • Profile picture of the author polimedia
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      • Originally Posted by polimedia View Post

        Here's a set out : A lie is a wilful misrepresentation of fact.

        Allow me to analyse this definition, for your benefit.
        Polimedia,

        Well I allowed you and I thank you for your interest in my benefit. Unfortunately I find your analysis lacking, so the intended benefit did not occur.

        Basically I see your analysis as making gobbledygook out of Aristotle in order to turn it into a justification for sleaze.

        Before we should even discuss proximate genus (or genus in general), we should at least agree on the definition. I don't agree with the one you presented for the popular meaning of "lie." Since we are on a forum where the language used is popular, using a sourced popular definition is a fitting standard. (Frankly, I am not too sure I agree with your definition as an abstraction, either, but that is another discussion.)

        Let's take a popular source for definitions, one that is available to all, the Free Dictionary (lie):

        1. A false statement deliberately presented as being true; a falsehood.
        2. Something meant to deceive or give a wrong impression.
        I don't even need to throw up a pseudo philosophy-babble smokescreen to see that both statements apply to the initial case at the start of the thread.

        "A false statement was deliberately presented as being true": "Oops..I thought the order was for 2."

        "Something meant to deceive or give a wrong impression": an extra chocolate drink was presented to deceive or give the wrong impression that an honest mistake had been made.

        Both are lies according to the above definition.

        But let's look a little further. You stated: "The technique described meets one of the two criteria (it is wilful) but not the other (of fact)."

        Yet you did not present the "fact" you were talking about. The fact in the example is a mistake in taking an order. No mistake was made, yet a mistake was presented as fact. That's a lie and you know it, even by your proximate genus gobbledygook.

        But let's look even a bit further. I discussed virtue in my post. You intentionally left that out to post some lame attempt at intimidation by hairsplitting a subjectively-chosen definition using ancient logic rules. That way you can ignore virtue, which is what people are objecting to here. There is category of logical fallacy for that: ignoratio elenchi. This is also called "red herring" in the popular form. "Strawman" is another.

        I would like to take you seriously, but from your stated values and intellectual demeanor, I would not buy a new car off of you, much less a used one.

        I cannot buy into your ideas, either. They are logically incorrect and presented outside of context in addition to any other evaluation I might have (which is not very flattering). I am no fan of sleaze and you have attempted to sanction it with respectability.

        I find that effort sleazy in itself. Certainly it is not virtuous.

        But hell, who needs bickering? Go sell some used cars or get-rich-quick schemes or something. There's a sucker born every minute so there's a lot of profitable work for you out there. I don't think you will find many marks on this forum, though.

        Michael
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        • Profile picture of the author polimedia
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          • Originally Posted by polimedia View Post

            It suffices for me to state what a perpetuum mobile is, and why it can not be achieved.
            Polimedia,

            Your statement suffices for "our needs"?

            Heh.

            I'm glad we got that source thing resolved.

            Is it me or is this criterion somewhat subjective? (I mean criterion for source of abstraction, not the perpetuum mobile issue per se, i.e., another red herring wannabe.)



            I do find your sudden idea of negotiating definitions as if one negotiated reality (which I neither said nor implied, but you attributed to me) to be another amusing strawman.

            Do carry on.

            Michael
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  • Profile picture of the author Keegahn
    Meh... one dude that wants to treat his customers like shit and a few others that defend the idea. The truly unfortunate thing about this situation is that I can't seem find the infraction level titled "Epic Douchebaggery"... who do I got'sta' talk to about gettin' that implemented?
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  • Profile picture of the author DigiTips
    Hmm..little unethical. In a more simple and decent method, one time offers work like this, exept they don't have to buy if they dont want to!

    "hey, thanks for buying my ebook, maybe you will be interested in this one too for a reduced rate? If not..thanks for your custom. The offer will still be available to you but at the normal price! OR, i may just send you an email in a few days time saying some people had problems with the O.T.O page, so if you missed out here it is again!"

    Did i hear a butterfly then...?
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    • Profile picture of the author Floyd Fisher
      Originally Posted by DigiTips View Post

      Hmm..little unethical. In a more simple and decent method, one time offers work like this, exept they don't have to buy if they dont want to!

      "hey, thanks for buying my ebook, maybe you will be interested in this one too for a reduced rate? If not..thanks for your custom. The offer will still be available to you but at the normal price! OR, i may just send you an email in a few days time saying some people had problems with the O.T.O page, so if you missed out here it is again!"

      Did i hear a butterfly then...?
      Dude, that's not even close to what the OP is about.

      Think more on the lines of 'hidden forced continuity' and you understand what he's doing.
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  • Ravi,

    LOL...

    I do get going when I get riled, don't I?

    When all the pretentiousness and snarkiness is removed and what you did is seen as a mischievous goof or inquiry, I find it interesting. I see it as the cousin of the following:

    When you go into a supermarket and the price is given as, say "10 for $10," you can always get one for one dollar. It's a factually true ad but misleading in inducing the thought that only units of 10 are being sold in order to get the low price.

    This is one of the lines I mentioned between persuasion and lying. I find this example squarely on the mid-line and it can be seen as one or the other, depending on context and the perceiver's values.

    I suppose there is room for this kind of marketing. That's why people do it. I personally don't care for it. Even if I did, I would place it WAAAAAAY down on the priority scale.

    No. 1 priority should be to provide a good or service that successfully meets a need and put it as an offer in front of a targeted public.

    If you later do some ethically borderline marketing with good stuff, people don't mind as much as when you do it with crap.

    Michael
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  • Profile picture of the author James Schramko
    The book has been written - it is called Influence by Cialdini.

    Grab it and you will learn that "acts of exploitation deserve to be exploited"

    In other words, I would say to him:

    No problem, everyone makes mistakes. Since it has been poured anyway, why dont you just give me the second cup for free and I'll be sure to come back next time!

    Don't be manipluated.
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  • Polimedia,

    So as I understand it, you hold that words "mean what they mean, and what they always have meant," unless you encounter language in a popular setting with popular definitions, in which case our unwashed masses need you to intervene and prescribe to them not only the proper verbiage of the definitions of the words they use (which you apparently get from something like "what they always have meant"), but the hierarchies involved in a proximate genus analysis.

    Being, in this case, of course (i.e., on a popular forum), that words do not "mean what they mean, and what they always have meant" to the good folks posting, but instead mean what you would dictate to them according to your stated standard of "what they [the words] always have meant."

    I confess that I find this confusing.



    (pssssst... Don't look now, but we are on a forum where people want to make money and be good people while doing it. I don't speak for them, but I imagine most consider this kind of stuff to be pure horseshit.

    Maybe another venue is more appropriate for a discussion on epistemology and logic.)

    Michael
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    • Profile picture of the author polimedia
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      • Originally Posted by polimedia View Post

        I have no objection with the notion of this forum being popular and thus ruled by popular definitions, my problem is that a popular notion of ethics is possibly the greatest roadblock people have to surmount to end up good people.

        There's little more corrupt than pop-ethics. You know ?
        Polimedia,

        That's a little too elitist for my palette. (I come from hillbillies.) Certain popular notions of ethics (do unto others..., etc.) have served me too well to snob them. I find that when certain popular notions of ethics are not followed corruption ensues.

        Anyway, got any ideas on making money on the Internet?

        I always see two poles where free enterprise is involved: trade value for value or fleece the suckers, and all gradations in between.

        I understood this thread initially to be in this ballpark.

        Michael
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        • Profile picture of the author ExRat
          Hi,



          This is great. I don't normally watch foreign language movies, but you can kind of get the gist of it anyway. I wish it had subtitles though.

          Right I'm off to the bar to get epistemology - I can't take much more of this stuff about Britney and pop-ethics...
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          Roger Davis

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          • Profile picture of the author rock
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  • Hey ExRat!

    Go easy on mixing epistemology with Britney. You could hurt yourself.

    And if you see anything like protopanpsychism down at the bar, stay away from it. If you haven't developed the chops for it, you'll get wasted, wake up in some stranger's bed and not remember a damn thing.



    Michael
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    • Profile picture of the author ExRat
      Hi Michael,



      {why does he keep using such complicated words? As if I'm going to understand what 'chops' are??!!}

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      Roger Davis

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      • Profile picture of the author Glenn Grundberg
        Hey Mike-

        Quit giving Troll-boy all this rich food...

        He'll just continue to shit himself everywhere, and think of the clean-up!

        LOL

        G

        EDIT PS - And leave Zappa out of it, Troll-boy!
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        I'm Baaaaaack...
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  • Profile picture of the author Mike McBride
    Yeah Mike, please stop feeding the troll.
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  • Uh oh...

    (looking around and whistling nonchalantly)

    How you folks doin'?

    Nice mornin' ain't it?

    Er...

    I guess I got something that needs doing somewhere...

    (whoosh)

    Michael
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  • Profile picture of the author Jared Alberghini
    It's the strangest thing... I've been hearing geese down at the river behind my house, which is odd for this time of year... the Canadian geese usually have all flown south by now... guess it's going to be a warm winter here in VT. (Maybe that Global Warming thing I have been hearing about is finally kicking in.)

    Jared

    P.S. http://www.warriorforum.com/off-topi...r-vermont.html
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  • Profile picture of the author Jared Alberghini
    Sorry for the interruption... please continue Michael.

    - Jared
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  • Profile picture of the author valerieSONORA
    Oh boy see Glenn and Mike got an (another?) infraction from the troll. I think he's trying to set a record here. Well it's set. :rolleyes: Anyway just type in for the response that you were infracted by a troll and it will probably be reversed.

    Surely the mods can see through a newbie infracting half the ppl here as soon as they join, including oldies who've been here since the beginning.

    Nothing to add to op, already thrown in my 2 cents.
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    siggy taking a break...

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  • Profile picture of the author Jared Alberghini
    Jesus! Has anyone else checked out annoyedgirl's blog : Dangerous Female Blog

    I think we had better put her suggestion from another post where she mentioned : "No Killing Other Warrior Members" in the rules right quick!

    ahem... um... Hi annoyedgirl... you won't ever see any infractions from me... (backing away quietly)

    - Jared
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    • Profile picture of the author Magic Johnson
      I think you can come up with a better way. Creativity is not about giving them 1 for the price of 2. It may work one time with a few of "giggling girls" and then you need to put up this parade and come up with another stupid tactic. Why not give them a giftcard instead for one cup that they have to sign under.

      I think that would do it. Instead of maybe getting caught and lieing to yourself and degrading your customers.

      They will wake up if you take this kind of tactics further. I'm 100% sure of that. Rather give them a good experience and it will work long term.

      Goodluck. And yes, your point is being CREATIVE. Then those who feel they are not is crying ballony and only see the bad things in your post.

      So I dont agree that your tactic is effective long run. But I agree that we should use creativity.
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  • Profile picture of the author nixor01
    ok...

    I don't really like the idea
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  • Jared,

    When I went "whoosh," I admit I hovered a bit. Then I really did go "whoosh" and clicked on "Don't Annoy A Crazy Girl." I landed right where you did, "Dangerous Female Blog."

    I looked around, cleared my throat and tried to look busy.

    And I went "whoosh" right back here.

    Don't ever mess with people crazier than you are. You can get seriously damaged...

    Annoyedgirl has a subtitle of "Broken hearted." I don't envy the one who broke it. I think I saw some of that poor soul's body parts over there...



    Michael
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    • Profile picture of the author polimedia
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      • Profile picture of the author Jeffery
        Quote:
        Originally Posted by Jeffery
        The shame of it all. Were any orphans subject to your tactic?

        Do not know what the University rules were, but you could have made tons more money selling your beverage served by famous celebrities without doing anything immoral. All proceeds to charity!

        Your money would have come from the media rights to the event!! Funny photos of customers and celebrities together with chocolate mustaches on a hot day.

        The chance of a lifetime for invited orphans. Never ending goodwill and you go home at night feeling good about yourself.

        I'm pretty sure that your Uni Professor would love to see this thread? Why not ask him/her to visit this thread and be the judge - the final authority?

        Jeffery 100% :-)


        Lol.Am i stupid enough to cheat orphans??

        Originally Posted by Ravivaarman Batumalai View Post

        Lol.Am i stupid enough to cheat orphans??
        You used the word "cheat" - not me - in response to my question..
        "The shame of it all. Were any orphans subject to your tactic?"

        In answer to your question "Lol.Am i stupid enough to cheat orphans??"
        I can only take from your posts that your customers were fellow college
        students. You used the word "cheat" - not me - so, I can only guess
        that if someone would "cheat" their fellow college students that they
        might even "cheat" friends and maybe even orphans subject to your
        tactic.

        I am not insinuating you are a bad person or anything of that nature.
        However, the tactic may have worked at your chocolate stand, but in
        most parts of the USA, college students would politely pay for one cup
        and if they thought you were pulling a tactic they would not be polite.

        Jeffery 100% :-)

        P.S. Look, I understand that this was a college assignment to come up
        with something creative. You may have stumbled on the tactic in the
        go of things and contributed it to the assignment.

        I am still curious about what your Uni Professor thinks about it?

        Jeffery 100% :-)
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        In the minute it took me to write this post.. someone died of Covid 19. RIP.
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  • Profile picture of the author BizBooks
    (mental note to self: keep track of people's opinions on this thread. do not do business with any of the people that thinks its just "another way of marketing".)

    yes, sir. Brilliant.

    I wonder how you would feel if the customer would try such a shtick on you, the business owner?
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  • Profile picture of the author Jared Alberghini
    Michael,

    A big yuppers, ten four, roger wilco... back at ya... Don't Annoy people who are crazier than you... I've personally learned this experience in the past... it never ends well...

    Jared.
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  • Profile picture of the author ofir
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    Dirty indeed :]
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  • Profile picture of the author Jim Edwards
    Here's a great story.

    An ice cream shop hired a consultant to increase their profits. Among other things, they sold ice cream shakes and had an option to add an egg for 50 cents. The egg dramatically increased their profitability on the shake.

    After some analysis, the consultant told the shop owner to instruct her employees to say 4 words whenever a shake was ordered: one egg or two? By giving a choice, the average person chose one egg, not realizing they had just increased the price by 50 cents.

    The change increased the % of shake purchasers who added an egg from 12% to 84% and increased their profitability dramatically.

    Always give your website visitors a choice, where both options benefit you. The only ~difficult~ choice should be NOT doing anything. The obvious choices should always further your cause.
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    • Profile picture of the author BizBooks
      Originally Posted by Jim Edwards View Post

      Here's a great story.

      An ice cream shop hired a consultant to increase their profits. Among other things, they sold ice cream shakes and had an option to add an egg for 50 cents. The egg dramatically increased their profitability on the shake.

      After some analysis, the consultant told the shop owner to instruct her employees to say 4 words whenever a shake was ordered: one egg or two? By giving a choice, the average person chose one egg, not realizing they had just increased the price by 50 cents.

      The change increased the % of shake purchasers who added an egg from 12% to 84% and increased their profitability dramatically.

      Always give your website visitors a choice, where both options benefit you. The only ~difficult~ choice should be NOT doing anything. The obvious choices should always further your cause.
      that's a variation of "would you like a fries with that?" , only more shrewed.

      telemarketing companies are trained to finish sentences with "OK?" its been shows to raise agreement and purchases by a high percentage in split testing...
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  • Profile picture of the author ebizman87
    I never thought that this thread will cause uproar and controversies..LOL
    Hmm.I want to see how long will this forum war continue.
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  • Ravi,

    About those chocolate drinks...

    Do you have delivery service?



    Michael
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