ARTICLE WRITERS- NEED YOUR ADVICE

13 years ago

Go punch them lol, I really don't like those picky people. I mean, it is not like you are charging them 100 USD per article. What is so much to pick about?

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Owen Smith

13 years ago

Originally Posted by BinBinWu

Go punch them lol, I really don't like those picky people. I mean, it is not like you are charging them 100 USD per article. What is so much to pick about?

I disagree, if you create an article and take the payment, you should produce the article to the highest and best standards. The customer is always right.

-Owen

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Sarah Bosen

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Owen Smith

I disagree, if you create an article and take the payment, you should produce the article to the highest and best standards. The customer is always right.

-Owen

Yes they are, but how would you tell the customer that they didn't ask for those extra things in the original agreement? All I want to do is point it out to them, and I'll write it no problem.

If they say that they want something and you provide it to them according to the agreement, and they change their mind? Then what? Should agreements be able to change? They could change their mind over and over and over getting you to write a huge amount of articles for the price of one?
I try to be very ethical in my dealings, but just because they are the customer that means that they can get me to do extra work for them?
Shouldn't they be ethical as well?

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Owen Smith

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Sarah Bosen

Yes they are, but how would you tell the customer that they didn't ask for those extra things in the original agreement? All I want to do is point it out to them, and I'll write it no problem.

If they say that they want something and you provide it to them according to the agreement, and they change their mind? Then what? Should agreements be able to change? They could change their mind over and over and over getting you to write a huge amount of articles for the price of one?
I try to be very ethical in my dealings, but just because they are the customer that means that they can get me to do extra work for them?
Shouldn't they be ethical as well?

It depends how much you need that one customer, if you have them a handful of them, ditch the customer and tell them you will not be making the amendments, if not go out of your way to please them. It could mean a large contract in the future, that you could miss out on because you did not do the changes for them.

I go out of my way for my customers, even though some do ask a little too much, but in general I do get rewarded for the additional work I do free of charge. I do SEO work on a monthly basis for a local company, they called me and asked if I could change something because it was not to their liking, I changed it and the next day they contacted me and doubled my work load as I was loyal to them and showed I was happy to go that extra mile, even if it did mean amendments to the original agreement.

I also always take the payments in advance, I get paid a motnh in advanced for work I am going to do the month later. It safe guards me.

-Owen

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The Niche Man

13 years ago

First Congratulations Sarah for using the Warrior Forum For Feedback:

Here's my 4 step solution that will turn this into a win-win situation for everyone.

Step 1 - Over-deliver and write the best article you can according to their latest specifications.

Step 2 - Write then a friendly reminder in order for you to serve them in a timely manner please be as specific as possible when ordering articles.

Step 3 - However, here's your article as requested and I look forward to serving you again in the future.

Step 4 - Don't forget to ask for referrals.

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MarkWrites

13 years ago

Originally Posted by The Niche Man

First Congratulations Sarah for using the Warrior Forum For Feedback:

Here's my 4 step solution that will turn this into a win-win situation for everyone.

Step 1 - Over-deliver and write the best article you can according to their latest specifications.

Step 2 - Write then a friendly reminder in order for you to serve them in a timely manner please be as specific as possible when ordering articles.

Step 3 - However, here's your article as requested and I look forward to serving you again in the future.

Step 4 - Don't forget to ask for referrals.

Those four steps are what I probably would've done if I were in the same situation. It does matter how much you value your future relationship with this one customer. But doing the rewrite and then letting them know that in the future they need to have the specifics nailed down ahead of time is a good way to complete this order and salvage new orders in the future (assuming that's what you want).

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Chris Worner

13 years ago

Hello Sarah,

Here is a couple of tips for you:

Never accept part payments, demand 100% up front payment before work begins.
In your aggreement, make sure to state that you retain full copyright of the works until the contract is completed.
Make it clear that if the clients want the content aimed at particular demographics, they must it clear what they specifically want.
Rewrites are only for when the content is not accepted at Ezine articles, unless agreed upon otherwise.

In this situation, I would just suck it up and rewrite that one article and afterwards never do business with this person again. Unfortunately, this is a situation of your own doing so just bite your lip and get it over with.

Chris

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accuratepsychicreadings

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Chris Worner

Hello Sarah,

Here is a couple of tips for you:

Never accept part payments, demand 100% up front payment before work begins.
In your aggreement, make sure to state that you retain full copyright of the works until the contract is completed.
Make it clear that if the clients want the content aimed at particular demographics, they must it clear what they specifically want.
Rewrites are only for when the content is not accepted at Ezine articles, unless agreed upon otherwise.

In this situation, I would just suck it up and rewrite that one article and afterwards never do business with this person again. Unfortunately, this is a situation of your own doing so just bite your lip and get it over with.

Chris

Hi, nice tips!

Sarah, yes, I think you should simply do the rewrites but you have to be more careful next time. Internet based businesses have a lot of competition and they have specific needs. If you are not very comfortable with a client you should then complete the job and terminate the contract you have with them...

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Sarah Bosen

13 years ago

I always get 50% upfront. I do that to show the customer that they I am motivated to do the work for the second half so they aren't concerned that I won't rip them off, and I like getting 50% upfront because I have been ripped off in the past. Did a bunch of work, sent it over and never got paid.

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Mike McAleer

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Sarah Bosen

I always get 50% upfront. I do that to show the customer that they I am motivated to do the work for the second half so they aren't concerned that I won't rip them off, and I like getting 50% upfront because I have been ripped off in the past. Did a bunch of work, sent it over and never got paid.

Wait so they never paid the other half?

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Sarah Bosen 13 years ago

Originally Posted by FreshDomains

Wait so they never paid the other half?

They never paid the second half. That's why I feel a little.... used? walked on? something...

Mainly annoyed that I did a lot of work for them and over one small article they aren't going to pay me for everything I did for them.

But I am going to re-write the article.
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dezchamps

13 years ago

I would do the rewrite as well - do it your best. Once you get paid THEN tell them the problem you had, and just explain, this one time you did the rewrite, but that if it's not in the specifications, a rewrite of this size will be considered a new article, and charged as such.
I'd get my money before I said anything though

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clever7

13 years ago

Now you have already lost the game. Never mind; it was a lesson for you.

Next time, remember that you must get paid in advance for your work because if the customer won’t pay you in the end, there is nothing you can do. However, your customer probably won’t agree on paying you in advance for writing his/her articles since you are not a named writer.

Therefore, you must charge at least 30% more for each article in advance, so that you won’t have any damage if you won’t receive the entire payment in the end. You simply won’t make as much as you could, but you will already be paid. This means that your services must be more expensive if you want to be safe.

If you are a good writer, you could write for Constant Content and make a lot of money, without having to deal with any customer. CC takes care of this part on your behalf, and your payment is guaranteed. However, CC’s guidelines are too complicated. If you want to work there send me a message and I will help you get accepted. You can make around $20 - $45 just for writing a short 400 – 500 words article. However, CC keeps 35% or your earnings because you have to pay for their many editors, and you are protected, since you never deal directly with the customer, etc.

You have to give real solutions to your readers. Your articles cannot be made by empty words, and your sentences must be very clear.

However, even if you are not an excellent writer, if you are serious about making money through article writing, I advise you to study everything you can about writing techniques, grammar rules, etc, and then read carefully CC’s guidelines until you’ll learn them very well.

You can make a lot of money there through technical writing, which is very simple. You only have to learn a few rules. Don’t write about complex topics if you don’t have any specific knowledge; write your articles after making a research. I’m impressed with the facility of selling articles at CC because it gets a lot of traffic. Everyone knows that CC is a top company…

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GeorgR.

13 years ago

If I don't write the article I won't get paid the other 50% owed me

Ok..sorry..that really sucks.

I'd say do that darn rewrite, get the money and drop the client to avoid further problems. Some customers have really crazy expectations and its not worth spending hours and hours to satisfy and work for such picky customers - its lost money!

Article writing only goes "so far" for me....but it doesn't involve super extensive research and multiple rewrites or other "extra things" some customers THINK they can get for a few bucks.

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Tina Golden

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Owen Smith

I disagree, if you create an article and take the payment, you should produce the article to the highest and best standards. The customer is always right.

-Owen

She did produce it to the highest standards. The issue is that the customer changed the requirements after the fact. The customer is NOT always right.

Sarah, only you can decide if it's worth it to you. I usually will re-write one article out of a large order but I also let them know that I did it this time only, because they are a good customer, but normally the new article would have been charged at the usual rate as they didn't specify what they needed when ordering.

That way, you've done them a favor but at the same time, let them know that it is not standard practice and that next time they will have to pay more if they do this.

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vilnwv

13 years ago

This is just one of those area that I think many article writers have trouble with. Best thing I would suggest is just to let it slide this time if they are a new customer. I would just make sure they know your policy on re-writes. But just starting out you have to suck it up sometimes in order to build a good word of mouth reputation as well as a client base. Anyway best of luck.

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packerfan

13 years ago

Man, some of these responses are killing me. Here's the thing, you're in the service business. You rely on repeat customers, which mean you rely on happy customers.

When you have customers that order BATCHES of articles, and they have a problem with 1 of them, because they forgot to tell you to target it to a specific audience, you fix it.

Here's how I'd handle it... as a reply to their request.

Sorry the article didn't meet your expectations. I will make the requested changes to the article and deliver as soon as possible. In your next order can you please identify any special instructions such as this so we can avoid these situations? Sorry for the confusion on this one.

------

And to echo some other's in here... Don't write without full payment upfront. At least not until some kind of relationship is established. It's different if you have large clients, but for those customers that order single orders (even on a weekly basis), I would make sure I get paid upfront.

When you're dealing with these things, you have to think about things like the lifetime value of the customer, and how your actions extend or shorten that lifetime. I'm not going to risk losing a possible repeat customer over something small like this. They obviously forgot to tell you, but so what. Make it right, and the next time they need articles they'll be back.

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Gail Ogden

13 years ago

Hi Sarah;

You're getting lots of good advice here, but I thought I would add my 2cents.

First the customer is not always right - you are in business to make money and some customers are just not worth the trouble.

Having said this though, you always have to give a customer excellent service. You will always have to weigh your responses to any problems. In this case is it really worth it to risk loosing a good reference, because you want to try and show them they were wrong. Which they were, but so were you a little bit.

So take this as lesson learned. Write down a detailed check list of all the things that you should always ask a potential customer (unfortunately you may learn more as you go - such is life).

Then have you customer answer the questions and send them a copy. In that document make sure that it states that any editing other then what is included in "said document" will be considered extra and as such they will be required to pay.

This is your business you make professional. Sometimes we are so anxious to get a job we forget to set the ground rules - so make it a habit.

Also those who are suggesting you get paid up front don't understand that most folks buying will not accept such and agreement, myself included. Still you have to protect yourself the best you can so in "document/contract" tell them that they must pay for all articles delivered upon delivery - and make exception just for the ones they are requesting a rewrite on.

Good Luck!

Gail

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Sarah Bosen

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Gail Ogden

Hi Sarah;

You're getting lots of good advice here, but I thought I would add my 2cents.

First the customer is not always right - you are in business to make money and some customers are just not worth the trouble.

Having said this though, you always have to give a customer excellent service. You will always have to weigh your responses to any problems. In this case is it really worth it to risk loosing a good reference, because you want to try and show them they were wrong. Which they were, but so were you a little bit.

So take this as lesson learned. Write down a detailed check list of all the things that you should always ask a potential customer (unfortunately you may learn more as you go - such is life).

Then have you customer answer the questions and send them a copy. In that document make sure that it states that any editing other then what is included in "said document" will be considered extra and as such they will be required to pay.

This is your business you make professional. Sometimes we are so anxious to get a job we forget to set the ground rules - so make it a habit.

Also those who are suggesting you get paid up front don't understand that most folks buying will not accept such and agreement, myself included. Still you have to protect yourself the best you can so in "document/contract" tell them that they must pay for all articles delivered upon delivery - and make exception just for the ones they are requesting a rewrite on.

Good Luck!

Gail

Um.. In case you didn't read the whole thread I did ask questions. I even asked questions specifically about their re-write problem, which they gave me inadequate answers. I always ask questions on what they want, and have a set of questions that I always ask so that I can give them what they are looking for.

I really don't want to sound like a complainer. I just want advice on how people build their work relationships and handle situations like this in a professional manner. And of course avoid people who could potentially take advantage of my services.

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Zachmo

13 years ago

You can go ahead and rewrite it but if I were you I will ask for an additional fee maybe cheaper than the original one Just an opinion though.

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packerfan 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Zachmo

You can go ahead and rewrite it but if I were you I will ask for an additional fee maybe cheaper than the original one Just an opinion though.

What are you hoping to gain by doing this? You're going to make a few bucks and piss off a customer for no real reason. Seems like you're risking a lot for no gain.
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InternetMarketingBusiness

Banned 13 years ago

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Sarah Bosen

13 years ago

Originally Posted by InternetMarketingBusiness

Hay Sara Bosen!

It is right that they have to tell you before. But it's OK if they are asking for a single article even if it is an extra one you may write that and give it to them to win their trust and make them your permanent customer. Think with your mind, not with your heart to be successful within the internet marketing game. And by the way in the time what you have wasted here asking people what you need to do and does they did right you had finished writing the article and give it to them. That's it.... matter was finished. Hope this will help you.

Jawad

I just wanted to point out that I haven't wasted any time here. I haven't been on the WF constantly while this thread has been going on, and have only checked on it a few times. Also what everyone says is interesting. I can see how people have different policies, which just expands my knowledge.

So no time wasted.

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Jillycakes

13 years ago

Hi Sarah,

I personally don't think you're being walked all over. It would be a little iffy if the client expected rewrites of ALL your work to include details that weren't in the original agreement, but that's not the case here. As it stands, it's only a matter of one article. Even if you have to rewrite the whole item, that's a loss of a few hours maximum.

While I agree that the customer isn't ALWAYS right, I think part of being a good service provider is the willingness to be a little flexible when the situation calls for it. It's possible s/he just made an honest mistake and forgot to include that information, despite the fact that you asked.

Think of it this way: is there potential for this client to send you additional business? If this client's sending you a batch of work, chances are it's not going to be the only batch they'll ever need. Is securing that business relationship and potential future revenue worth the added time to rewrite the article to their specifications? A few lost hours rewriting that ONE piece could make the difference in securing thousands of dollars in revenue later.

If it were one of my clients, I would also point out the fact that their specific needs weren't spelled out in the original agreement. So when you return the rewrite, you could add a quick caveat such as "If possible, please try to notify me of any special regional or product-based needs at the beginning of a project. This will help me turn your content around faster in the future." Most clients are always eager to get better service, so dangling some kind of carrot in front of them will help them remember your suggestion. Making it a short, sweet kind of "by the way" mention also keeps the issue from escalating into a big deal.

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Marx Vergel Melencio

13 years ago

Hi Sarah. This is what I usually do in such instances, as an experienced
independent service provider and now a proprietor, business development,
marketing strategist and manpower sourcing/training/management
consultant of an ICT outsourcing firm:

1. Inform them that I will revise the article to comply with their recently
mentioned requirements ASAP...

2. Send it to them and include a message saying it would be best for both
our convenience if all project requirements are clearly communicated and
finalized before project startup...

3. Improve my standard service provider/independent contractor-client
agreement to include these details:

3.1. NDA;
3.2. NCA;
3.3. approval and advance payment terms clearly sent before project
startup;

3.4. delivery and client review terms clearly sent before project startup;
3.5. revision terms clearly sent before project startup; and
3.6. balance payment terms clearly sent before project startup...

I consider building friendly and mutually beneficial relationships with
clients, be it big spenders or small investors, as a wise business move...

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drmani

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Sarah Bosen

I don't want to feel like I am being walked all over for something that I feel like they should have told me, and so I wasted my time writing this specific article.

If I don't write the article I won't get paid the other 50% owed me for the ENTIRE batch of articles, and I don't want to make a big deal out of it,
I just want to be able to get the message to them that they need to be more clear when ordering articles.

What should I do? What would you do?

Thanks

Two perspectives here, and one (or neither) may be right for YOU.

1. If it takes you less than 30 minutes to write another version
(or another) article, why not simply do it - and let the client have
the other you did as a 'free bonus'... and make it back on future
work, or referrals?

2. If it is likely to take a lot of research and effort, why not
highlight that to the client - and regardless of whether they pay
you for that extra work or not, they'll APPRECIATE it a lot more
than if you just gave them another finished article?

Either way, you're going about it with a mindset of abundance ("there's
a lot from where this came from") than one of scarcity ("I have only
so much time/talent, and you're taking away a part of it")

And that attitude communicates itself to the buyer/client in many
subtle ways, causing them to come back to you for more - or be
repelled and never do business again.

I just refunded a $497 sale yesterday. The buyer said they didn't
understand what they ordered, and thought they cannot make the best
use of it - even though the sales letter went into great detail on this.

I didn't quite enjoy the thought of losing the sale - but did refund,
gave the client other options that may better suit their needs, and
invited them to tell a friend or ten about this, if it might help them.

Doing this once may be an exception or aberration - but when it gets
to become a habit, it builds your brand. Continued over years, it
wins you loyal fans - who will spread word about you and your work
to everyone they meet and know.

That's the BIG win from adopting that mindset - but hey, it can hurt
in the short run!

Hope this helps.

All success
Dr.Mani

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IM Ash

13 years ago

It seems you are afraid of losing the other 50% by saying the wrong thing to the client. If this the case then you shouldn't say anything and just do the rewrite and collect your final payment.

In the future you should use a 3rd party site like ELance to engage in any writing activities as this will offer you an element of protection.

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Rob D

13 years ago

Hi Sarah,

First of all, I'd like to say good on you for posting this. It has been worth it for a couple of reasons. First you can see this is clearly not a unique situation. Secondly you can see there is a lot of different opinion on it, and responses here seem to depend a lot on which side of the fence the poster comes from and how established their business is.

My personal advice - go and read Packerfan's post above. Particularly the bit about the lifetime value of a customer. Then read it again.

How would I have handled the situation - rewriten the article to the new specifications, send them the rewrite with a note to please include any specific requirements prior to work beginning and then take the original unaccepted article and slapped it up in my portfolio on my freelance site(and point that out to them in passing - "No biggie, I've put the original article which you didn't want on demo directory).

I had one customer I did some coding through rentacoder for who followed a similar path to what you describe. He wanted a specific piece of functionality but he wasn't 100% sure on how it was going to fit together. We went through about 3 revisions before he accepted the work. We were both very early in our online careers and we both learned alot about what to ask for and how to deal with outsourcing. Bottom line is I have had about another $500 of work from that client and a couple of cash bonusses included.

Incidentally, your posts in this thread are well written and you have a pretty picture - so I'd be surprised if the time someone described as above as 'wasted' doesn't pick you up an extra client or two.

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BloggerDeen

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Sarah Bosen

Hi Fellow writers.

I am still pretty new to the warrior forum, and I was hoping that you could help me with a little problem. (It really is a little problem but I haven't come across it before)

So Last week I wrote a BATCH of articles for an unnamed person.
Today I received a letter that that person wants me to re-write just one of the articles.

They explain that the article I wrote could not be used for their website because I wrote it aiming towards people in the US (I was simply going with products that are most popular in the world and they all happened to be US products), and they wanted it to be aimed at people, lets say in Ireland.

I have no problem re-writing the article, but I went back and re-read our agreement and NO WHERE does it say the word Ireland, all I received was a keyword or phrase. I even asked this person extra questions about the article and did not get any information indicating that it was intended for Irish readers (I even asked who the audience or the readers were).

They even added that they wanted me to inform their readers of their product, which of course was not mentioned in the original agreement. And the article I wrote was written in a way that I would have to re-write about 90% of the article to aim it toward a different audience and include their product.

I have no problem doing this, ok just a little one, but shouldn't they have mentioned all of this when they gave me their instructions/requirements for the articles in the first place? Or even after they sent me the initial 50% payment?

I don't want to feel like I am being walked all over for something that I feel like they should have told me, and so I wasted my time writing this specific article.

If I don't write the article I won't get paid the other 50% owed me for the ENTIRE batch of articles, and I don't want to make a big deal out of it,
I just want to be able to get the message to them that they need to be more clear when ordering articles.

What should I do? What would you do?

Thanks

Sarah as an article writer you should always take the fees upfront. That way you won't be carry risk of not getting paid and other issues related to payments. Believe me if you are good enough clients will pay you. Just show them your sample articles.
Also for this client you should tell them straight way to make payments upfronts onwards and give all the instructions necessary to write articles. And yeah its ok to tell them that its very inconvenient for you to rewrite again and again.

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Devid Farah 13 years ago

Hi Sarah,

My advise is that you should strongly tell your clients where they got it wrong and give them reasons why you may not have re-written the articles BUT go ahead and re-write it, ok?

You are doing it for the future and you need to know that in any business, 'customers are Kings!'

Don't ignore this from now on but this is not saying that you should take all the craps from your clients, NO; but always try to find ways to mutually resolve disputes so that each parties will take the necessary corrections and the business relationship will be sustained.

Good luck!
Devid
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Rien

13 years ago

Sarah,

It has already been said several times in this thread - get the
full payment upfront. I always request the full amount upfront.

The only time I take a 50% payment is if it is a new client, who
does not feel comfortable paying the full fee because they don't
know me from Adam. I also make sure it is a smaller order.

Nothing like doing 25 articles and then having someone flip the script
on you. The great thing is that you can CHOOSE who you want to do
business with.

I have had some finicky clients try to pull all sorts of stuff after the fact.
Just graciously make the changes and tell them thank you for your
business, then drop them as a client. I have always suggested another
writer on the board that may be a better fit for their needs.

Hope this helps.

Rien

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donhx

13 years ago

My view? Do the rewrites, then never work for them again. All the "after-thoughts" your client is having is just an annoying part of the business of writing. Professionals don't work as your clients do, but you're stuck with them until you get paid in full.

Is the customer always right? No. The customer is seldom right; they come to experts like you because they lack expertise themselves. While the cusotmer is not always right, the customer is always the customer, and you have to accept that to get ahead. Must of us started out writing for anyone. As time goes on, you see you have a list of good and bad customers. When you can afford to do it, you just drop the bad ones.

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JoeJ

13 years ago

Originally Posted by donhx

My view? Do the rewrites, then never work for them again. All the "after-thoughts" your client is having is just an annoying part of the business of writing. Professionals don't work as your clients do, but you're stuck with them until you get paid in full.

Is the customer always right? No. The customer is seldom right; they come to experts like you because they lack expertise themselves. While the cusotmer is not always right, the customer is always the customer, and you have to accept that to get ahead. Must of us started out writing for anyone. As time goes on, you see you have a list of good and bad customers. When you can afford to do it, you just drop the bad ones.

Sheesh, that's a bit harsh isn't it?

Why never work for them again. It may just be a misunderstanding that the OP's communication with the client can easily resolve.

Many awkward clients can be "trained" to become really great business partners. Sure ditch the really bad one's but most are not at all bad.

EVERY business I have ever been invloved with has "fussy" customers. Always do everything you can to keep them sweet. Even when you are p*ssed with them.

Give them what they want, get paid and next time you have a stronger position if they come knocking again.

Always do more than what you were asked for and you will be alright in life.

Joe

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Alexa Smith

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Sarah Bosen

that person wants me to re-write just one of the articles.

I'd just do it, for the goodwill, without a thought.

And say whatever you have to say to ensure that it doesn't happen again with that client.

Originally Posted by Sarah Bosen

If I don't write the article I won't get paid the other 50% owed me for the ENTIRE batch of articles

That makes it a no-brainer, really.

Originally Posted by Sarah Bosen

I just want to be able to get the message to them that they need to be more clear when ordering articles.

Sure - of course.

For myself, although I know far more writers take 50% up-front than payment in full in advance, and 50% deposit is considered "normal terms of dealing", I always took payment in full from all new clients and allowed only regular returners to pay 50% in advance (though in fact they almost never bothered, and paid in full anyway to avoid two transactions).

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sarahberra

13 years ago

I would just rewrite the article according to the client's suggestions. Rewrites are a big part of this business. I have felt just as you are feeling. Some clients are also more picky than others. Demand Media and other companies continually ask their writer's to rewrite articles. Ask the client if you can still use some of the same information, but change a few things around. I hope this helps...

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Glengara

13 years ago

so how long will the change take? 5 mins? do it with good will and move on. You will get more business from this source. Or be principled make a stand and forget any chance of future business

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