I Shouldn't Share This: On Google Slap

[Harlan]

Originally Posted by Mike Hill

PS... Nice one eh?

Very nice one.

[Michael Ellis]

If you're relying on marketing from one source (even if that source is the Big-G) then you're setting yourself up for a catastrophe somewhere down the line, sooner or later.

While it's wonderful to get traffic from Google, they aren't the only road in town. There are numerous amounts of different traffic generation sources, and yes even outside the paid realms.

Social bookmarking can be a huge traffic source. Article marketing as well (not Bum - writing good content that people WANT to post on their sites). Viral marketing is hugely underrated. And never underestimate offline marketing .

It doesn't matter how the prospect gets to your site. Just make sure you capture them in your list and the Big-G can't to a damn thing about that... nor do I think they want to.

That's smart marketing.

[Harlan]

Michael, you are 100% correct on this.

This is where the money is - of course - in the list.

Of course, than you just have to worry about your email deliverability!

Peace!

[Max Ramocsai]

Originally Posted by Michael Ellis

If you're relying on marketing from one source (even if that source is the Big-G) then you're setting yourself up for a catastrophe somewhere down the line, sooner or later.

While it's wonderful to get traffic from Google, they aren't the only road in town. There are numerous amounts of different traffic generation sources, and yes even outside the paid realms.

Social bookmarking can be a huge traffic source. Article marketing as well (not Bum - writing good content that people WANT to post on their sites). Viral marketing is hugely underrated. And never underestimate offline marketing .

It doesn't matter how the prospect gets to your site. Just make sure you capture them in your list and the Big-G can't to a damn thing about that... nor do I think they want to.

That's smart marketing.

Very well said.

[Johnson Tay]

Originally Posted by Michael Ellis

If you're relying on marketing from one source (even if that source is the Big-G) then you're setting yourself up for a catastrophe somewhere down the line, sooner or later.

While it's wonderful to get traffic from Google, they aren't the only road in town. There are numerous amounts of different traffic generation sources, and yes even outside the paid realms.

Social bookmarking can be a huge traffic source. Article marketing as well (not Bum - writing good content that people WANT to post on their sites). Viral marketing is hugely underrated. And never underestimate offline marketing .

It doesn't matter how the prospect gets to your site. Just make sure you capture them in your list and the Big-G can't to a damn thing about that... nor do I think they want to.

That's smart marketing.

Sorry I am total idiot when it comes to SEO.

But don't Social Bookmarking and Article Marketing ultimately rely on search engine traffic?

I mean the whole point of submitting your content with your URL to either a social bookmarking site or article marketing directory is to get the search engine to pick up your submission and hopefully get it listed for the keyword you want your site to get ranked for. Isn't it?

[Michael Ellis]

Originally Posted by Johnson Tay

Sorry I am total idiot when it comes to SEO.

But don't Social Bookmarking and Article Marketing ultimately rely on search engine traffic?

I mean the whole point of submitting your content with your URL to either a social bookmarking site or article marketing directory is to get the search engine to pick up your submission and hopefully get it listed for the keyword you want your site to get ranked for. Isn't it?

Johnson,

Let me start with article marketing because I see a lot of people confusing article marketing with Bum Marketing.

Bum Marketing focuses on finding highly searched phrases which do not have too much competition (i.e. results in Google when doing a search for the phrase in quotes).

The Bum Marketer then quickly creates content around those search phrases and posts that content on more established (more Google friendly) sites like an article directory.

The Bum Marketer knows, if he/she did their research correctly, how well the target article directory will rank in terms of the top 10 SERPs for the target search phrase.

Say the Bum Marketer found the phrase "buy black ipod cheap" had less than 10k competing sites when searched in Google (in quotes) and the top 10 sites in the SERPs (search engine results pages) had a pagerank (PR) of 3 or less. If they know that their target article directory has a history of outperforming PR 3 sites then they'll feel pretty good about their article being in the top 5 of the search results for that phrase.

An article marketer, on the other hand, doesn't really concentrate on the whole "highly searched/low competition" aspect. They create quality articles that people WANT to read and find homes for those articles on sites (and it doesn't have to be an article directory) that have a hungry crowd of people waiting/wanting to read it. This is what I was referring to.

Article marketing has nothing to do with starting a search at Google.

Social Bookmarking is very powerful tool that can operate quite nicely without any help from Google as well. It allows you to create bookmarks and share them with anyone and everyone. The more popular BM sites have enormous traffic. I'm talking big traffic jams.

Think of the power when a marketer in a particular niche can share his/her bookmarks with prospects, customers, other SB users, etc. And who knows, maybe that marketer even throws a few of their sites into the shared bookmarks.

It's very powerful... and it's very non-Google dependent.

Note: Just to get the record straight, please don't get me wrong, Google certainly adds to the excitement of any marketing campaign, when they like you. But they shouldn't be relied on. I'm not bashing Bum marketing, either. I'm just making a small comparison. I know there are other aspects.

Just remember, nowhere in the great bible of Internet Marketing does it say that all sales begins with a Google search.

[Harlan]

Originally Posted by Michael Ellis

Note: Just to get the record straight, please don't get me wrong, Google certainly adds to the excitement of any marketing campaign, when they like you. But they shouldn't be relied on. I'm not bashing Bum marketing, either. I'm just making a small comparison. I know there are other aspects.

Just remember, nowhere in the great bible of Internet Marketing does it say that all sales begins with a Google search.

Of course not but it would be one foolish marketer to ignore them.

When I had a hypnosis center, I advertised in the largest paper around.

Another center advertised on the back of cash register receipts.

Guess who got all the business?

Peace.

[Michael Ellis]

Originally Posted by Harlan

Of course not but it would be one foolish marketer to ignore them.

Yes, I totally agree.

[MaskedMarketer]

Originally Posted by Michael Ellis

If you're relying on marketing from one source (even if that source is the Big-G) then you're setting yourself up for a catastrophe somewhere down the line, sooner or later.

Some will say if you're marketing online only, that you're also leaving a sh#tload of money on the table. If possible, you should be marketing in every communication channel that you can!

Originally Posted by Michael Ellis

That's smart marketing.

[Harlan]

Originally Posted by MaskedMarketer

Some will say if you're marketing online only, that you're also leaving a sh#tload of money on the table. If possible, you should be marketing in every communication channel that you can!

I agree.

The smart money does this:

online
offline - direct mail, radio, television, newspapers, magazines etc.

How many people on the Warrior Forum use SRDS anymore?

[Michael Ellis]

Originally Posted by MaskedMarketer

Some will say if you're marketing online only, that you're also leaving a sh#tload of money on the table. If possible, you should be marketing in every communication channel that you can!

Absolutely right! I come from a mail order background... most would be shocked at how well some mail order marketing tactics work for online marketers.

[MaskedMarketer]

Originally Posted by Harlan

I agree.

The smart money does this:

online
offline - direct mail, radio, television, newspapers, magazines etc.

How many people on the Warrior Forum use SRDS anymore?

No one needs to now about the SRDS (and other) goldmines

Originally Posted by Michael Ellis

Absolutely right! I come from a mail order background... most would be shocked at how well some mail order marketing tactics work for online marketers.

I would consider myself a marketer and not really an internet marketer.

I also started in magazine advertising and newspapers and failed at that.

To think how much further that money would have went on the web..

[Mark M. Bravura]

Hi Matt,

I just put up a brand new site about 3 weeks ago, that has already attained a PR0, and it is 100% sales letter - albeit with a shedload of truly useful content. Harlan speaks absolutely correct, imho.

Best regards,

Mark

Originally Posted by Matt MacPherson

I wonder how Google feels about sales letters. Does a sales letter designed
to convert readers into buyers provide a "quality user experience"?

It's a fine line to draw.

Regards,
Matt

[jcaviani]

This action is about as predicatble as Google not wanting huge masses of Traffic Equalizer sites clogging up their listings.

As Harlan says, Google's question always is, do your sites add value? If they don't or they are riding the line, they will eventually be eliminated. The best content will rise to the top.

Does that mean you can't make money riding the line? hardly.... but, if you're smart, you'll use some of your profits to create REAL content or value. It's the best money you will ever spend.

What you really have to weigh is if you'd rather keep your ideas to yourself, which I always do, or sell them to the masses. Some people apparently need their five minutes of fame and a victory lap. I want my name spelled right on the check.

If you decide to market them, you had better be a good marketer because you can't unring a bell.

[John Ritz]

How many people on the Warrior Forum use SRDS anymore?

SRDS is STILL one of the great resources for finding a niche.

They've done all the work for you!

[Debbie Songster]

Originally Posted by Harlan

Michael, you are 100% correct on this.

This is where the money is - of course - in the list.

Of course, than you just have to worry about your email deliverability!

Peace!

The money is in the list that includes a physical address!

As a person who deal with real Joe Blow and Jane Doe buyers (ones who shop online but aren't real Internet savvy like IM people) I can tell you the effectiveness of email is getting less and less.
The average person is so fed up with SPAM they are quick to delete or report anything they don't like (even if its not SPAM)

You can't unsubscribe from the real SPAM so they take out their frustration on "us".
I've seen a lot of that this month.

I'm going back to mailing my coupons and special. I had far better response rate when I did it before.

As for slapping the review sites...
If they are crap sites, Google will sort it out. I'm all for it. I build stores and larger information sites. I have to compete with those sites.

Its Google's playground, they make the rules and most importantly they set the standards that the other big guys like MSN, Yahoo and others watch and emulate.

I'm not worring about it affecting my sites.

[Harlan]

Originally Posted by Debbie Songster

The money is in the list that includes a physical address!

I'm sure there are no problems like A pile / B pile or getting your mail read. :-)

[Chris Lockwood]

Originally Posted by Harlan

Ever see a copy of Consumer Reports?

They review dozens of products and different models.

That's a non-profit organization. Some of us here are trying to make a profit.

It's also a print magazine which people buy vs. a website which is free to access.

So other than the fact that they have reviews, I don't see the relevance.

[Debbie Songster]

Harlan

I'm sure there are no problems like A pile / B pile or getting your mail read. :-)

Are you saying email is more effective then direct mail?

[Harlan]

Originally Posted by Debbie Songster

Harlan

Are you saying email is more effective then direct mail?

It depends on the list.

Is it a buyer's list? A compiled list?

Who has mailed it recently?

What do they spend?

What is your offer?

With an email list, you can always email them again.

With Direct Mail, you've got to rent the list again.

Unless you've bought a crappy list from Info USA.

Their lists aren't worth much...

Peace

[Debbie Songster]

I was continuing with the statement that Michael made

It doesn't matter how the prospect gets to your site. Just make sure you capture them in your list and the Big-G can't to a damn thing about that... nor do I think they want to.

That's smart marketing.

So in this case we aren't talking about purchased lists.

I find email to be less effective (deliverability is an issue - people change their email address frequently) than it used to be. My direct mail campaigns generate more sales.

Thats all I was getting at.

[Fabian Tan]

I think a year ago Ezine Articles had about 80,000 authors. That number is now up to almost 140,000 folks. That's almost double the amount of authors in the space of a year, and I think Ezine Articles has been around since 2000.

More people are going to come in to Internet marketing, it's going to make every traffic generation strategy more of a challenge.

The solution? Use automated tools (think $297 tools that are out of reach for 90% of marketers)/outsourcing to dominate ad avenues and produce SCALABILITY in minutes while your competitors flounder.

At the end of the day, money talks.

Fabian

[Michael Ellis]

Originally Posted by Fabian Tan

I think a year ago Ezine Articles had about 80,000 authors. That number is now up to almost 140,000 folks. That's almost double the amount of authors in the space of a year, and I think Ezine Articles has been around since 2000.

More people are going to come in to Internet marketing, it's going to make every traffic generation strategy more of a challenge.

The solution? Use automated tools (think $297 tools that are out of reach for 90% of marketers)/outsourcing to dominate ad avenues and produce SCALABILITY in minutes while your competitors flounder.

At the end of the day, money talks.

Fabian

Well, the article directories are simply getting full of junk. Articles are being written by people that have absolutely no clue on the topics. Automation tools aren’t going to help, they’ll make matters worse. Bum Marketing, as much as I love it, is a major reason for the junk articles. People just want to put their links under a few key words. The content, well, sucks.

This is precisely why I speak of Bum Marketing and Article Marketing as being two different things. True Article Marketer’s know their topic very well and produce quality content that people want to read. You don’t need automation when you have quality. People will seek you out.

Have you noticed the growing number of forum posts where people talk about how many articles they have posted and how low of CTR they’re getting? I have. Why? Their articles are junk – there’s no substance – no authenticity. They just don't know the topic. And it won’t matter if you take these articles and send them to every article directory on the Internet, the results won’t change very much.

[Lance K]

Originally Posted by Matt MacPherson

I wonder how Google feels about sales letters. Does a sales letter designed
to convert readers into buyers provide a "quality user experience"?

It's a fine line to draw.

Did I slip into a coma and miss when they changed the definition of advertising? I figured publishers acknowledged that their advertisers were inclined to sell something to their readers by accepting payment for the ad space.

Anyway, the "user experience" is a good reason on the surface. But ultimately it comes down to money. And if Google's biggest Adwords buyers are sick of the affiliate review sites, they'll nuke em. Whoever pads the bottom line more, wins.

[Lance K]

See what I mean about the "user experience" excuse being camouflage?

If those blogs deliver the best user experience and that is truly Google's main objective, then they simply must keep them indexed. If they don't, they're nuts. Either that or everyone else is for buying into the "user experience" sham.

Originally Posted by Mike Hill

Well I may as well let this spill out in this thread since it has to do with Google... But I've heard from insider sources at Google that they are planning to slap all the Word Press blogs that sell advertising because those blogs are only there to make money from the paid ads.

Google is furious because these blogs are "stealing" advertising dollars from Google and once more these blogs are getting free traffic within Google's organic search.

Mike Hill

PS... Nice one eh?

[Lance K]

Originally Posted by Harlan

This is where the money is - of course - in the list.

Not saying you personally, Harlan. Cuz I know you deliver some solid content and genuinely care about helping people...

but what's the difference in affiliate review sites and the 90% (my own out of thin air estimate) of email lists that exist solely to extract money from their subscribers.

[MaskedMarketer]

Originally Posted by Lance K

See what I mean about the "user experience" excuse being camouflage?

Google just studies the data, interprets trends, and will do whatever to please who they need to please and make the money they want

Some decent books have been written on the subject of Google, like "Numerati" "Planet Google" and "Click", just to name a few...

Interesting reads...

[Lance K]

Originally Posted by MaskedMarketer

Google just studies the data, interprets trends, and will do whatever to please who they need to please and make the money they want

Totally. And I'm not saying that Google doesn't care about user experience. I'm just saying that it's not their main concern, as they would have you believe. It's VERY MUCH secondary.

The way I see it, they want to provide the best user experience possible at the highest profit level. Not get the most possible profit out of the highest user experience level.

[MaskedMarketer]

Originally Posted by Lance K

Totally. And I'm not saying that Google doesn't care about user experience. I'm just saying that it's not their main concern, as they would have you believe. It's VERY MUCH secondary.

The way I see it, they want to provide the best user experience possible at the highest profit level. Not get the most possible profit out of the highest user experience leve.

That makes sense. Its in there best interests that we have a good user experience.

Google researches us the same way we research our markets.

Except they have way more data and have scientists and mathematicians working on there data..