I Shouldn't Share This: On Google Slap

[Harlan]

One of my close online contacts probably pays for more Adwords
advertising than anyone.

As a result, he has extensive contacts with Google.

In fact, he is invited into Google twice a year to teach Google about Adwords.

So at my Tactic7 seminar, he shared what he feels is the next Google slap -

It's going to be those fake review sites you see.

The ones steering people to one or two products.

You see these mostly in the weight loss and work from home categories.

So be warned, although this could happen any time, he expects it no later
than 1st quarter 2009.

So you might just want to rethink that strategy.

Peace.

Harlan

[Jeremy Kelsall]

I wonder where they will draw the link between what is "fake" and real?

I mean, just about every "review" site out there is there to sell something.

[Jared Alberghini]

Harlen, if you have an in... much more importantly than just simple review sites slap... have you heard anything of the social slap rumored to hit all social sites soon?

- Jared

[Jakehyten]

Originally Posted by Harlan

It's going to be those fake review sites you see.

Peace.

Harlan

what constitutes a FAKE review site? The fact that it is only 1 page and 2 products and no content?

[Angela V. Edwards]

Originally Posted by Jakehyten

what constitutes a FAKE review site? The fact that it is only 1 page and 2 products and no content?

Those kind should have already been "slapped". I usually see those in the Adwords section, though. I personally find it irritating to do a search and find sites like this that have little to no content. Many of those are in the PPC section, too...which is why I prefer "natural" search results.

I'm skeptical enough that when someone tells me what they think the next "Google slap" will be, I either:

1) Think they might simply be repeating something that "someone" told them (you see this all the time online) or

2) Wonder if they're saying this because they want to lower the competition to their OWN sites.

No one knows Google's algorithm. No one. It's such top secret that I suspect even Google engineers like Matt Cutts might not even have the whole story. You can bet that Yahoo and MSN would LOVE to have some information about the algorithm, to make their own search engines more competitive.

My recommendation would be to use techniques that are tried-and-true; techniques which have worked in the past, are working now, and don't appear to be going away any time soon. Don't just jump on the bandwagon about stuff because "someone" said it might be so.

[PaulGee]

Harlan
Thanks for this warning - so if we buy every product we review rather than search for user 'comments' will this lose the 'fake' label in googles eyes? Will we now need to include five, six, seven or more products in each review site to avoid being slapped? No doubt time will tell.

Interesting post.
Paul

[Harlan]

It goes without saying if you follow Google's proclaimed
Question, does this site enhance the user experience, the
Answer for the most part is no.

It doesn't matter if the site has 2 products or 15 products,
if all you have is a bunch of affiliate links, than this Google
Slap is well deserved.

Ask yourself.

What would make a quality site people would want
to visit and bookmark?

That's where your energy should be directed.

Peace

[sevenish]

Originally Posted by Harlan

It goes without saying if you follow Google's proclaimed
Question, does this site enhance the user experience, the
Answer for the most part is no.

Having been in the "user experience" business for more than 10 years, it's nice to see it coming into fashion.

[MaskedMarketer]

Its about time they remove all those garbage review sites I'm seeing.

As the internet evolves only the strong will survive. Its only the beginning of whats to come.

If you follow trends, then worrying about that review site is only a small fraction of what's really going to hurt IM and information marketing. And google can't stop it- its only making it worse.

Lets thank Google for taking the trash out.

Thanks Big G!

[Harlan]

Originally Posted by PaulGee

Harlan
Thanks for this warning - so if we buy every product we review rather than search for user 'comments' will this lose the 'fake' label in googles eyes? Will we now need to include five, six, seven or more products in each review site to avoid being slapped? No doubt time will tell.

Interesting post.
Paul

Does posting more useless pitches make the site more useful to the users?

You mean should the products you recommend really have some value?

2 X 0 = Zero.

[MaskedMarketer]

maybe this is a dumb, obvious question, but when Google slaps these people- CPC should go down, right? Possibly?

[Harlan]

Originally Posted by MaskedMarketer

maybe this is a dumb, obvious question, but when Google slaps these people- CPC should go down, right? Possibly?

When Google slaps these people, they raise their CPC to 10, 15 or even 100 a click.

They are saying, we don't want your business.

I've had sites slapped. Most had really good reason for being slapped.

You can whine or...

Correct them.

Most people who had sites slapped during Google Slap I tried to bluff their way
out of it.

They changed the URL.

They opened new accounts.

Google caught up with them.

So if you are smart and have a review site, pay attention.

Because your site is going down.

For the record, I do not have any review sites.

Peace.

[Jason Moffatt]

If I'm not mistaken, not too long ago they passed some type of legislation in Europe making these type of sites illegal.

I don't know the validity of the law, or whether or not it's really even prosecutable, but do remember something of the sort.

[jazzyjeff]

I wouldn't lose any sleep over Google "slapping" a review site. I mean, just because you are out in google doesn't mean you can't use Yahoo or MSN. Plus, it would just cost more per click if you use Adwords to drive your traffic to a review site.

Jeff

[Kiwigal]

Originally Posted by jazzyjeff

I wouldn't lose any sleep over Google "slapping" a review site. I mean, just because you are out in google doesn't mean you can't use Yahoo or MSN. Plus, it would just cost more per click if you use Adwords to drive your traffic to a review site.

Jeff

I agree, yahoo and msn may gain a lot more new marketers.

[Harlan]

Originally Posted by jazzyjeff

Plus, it would just cost more per click if you use Adwords to drive your traffic to a review site.

Jeff

Spoken like a true non-marketer.

Google is the source of most of the PPC traffic.

You want to pay $15 a click to bring people to a crappy site?

The line forms right in back of you.

[Harlan]

Originally Posted by Jason Moffatt

If I'm not mistaken, not too long ago they passed some type of legislation in Europe making these type of sites illegal.

I don't know the validity of the law, or whether or not it's really even prosecutable, but do remember something of the sort.

Sober up JaMo.

Must be all the colon cleansing you've been doing.

Coming out to secret headquarters in January for secret session.

Don't tell anyone.

[Jakehyten]

Originally Posted by Harlan

Spoken like a true non-marketer.

Google is the source of most of the PPC traffic.

You want to pay $15 a click to bring people to a crappy site?

The line forms right in back of you.

lmao! you are ruthless harlan

[Jkeown]

Is it safe to say a content based website which includes reviews will still be a victim of the slap?

I've just finished creating an approx 10 Page website with good content but some review pages as well. Might not bother if it's going to get slapped straight away.

Is purely content the way foward? Sometimes reviews can be so profitable.

[Max Ramocsai]

I think he is referring to sites that only offer reviews and no content. Sites with the sole purpose of making money and which offer no value to the visitor.

[Daniel Scott]

Originally Posted by Harlan

One of my close online contacts probably pays for more Adwords
advertising than anyone.

In fact, he is invited into Google twice a year to teach Google about Adwords.

I'm confused here - why is your friend teaching Google about Adwords? Wouldn't they already know pretty much everything about it?

Or is he like a bug-finding kind of guy or something?

-Dan

[Angela V. Edwards]

Originally Posted by Daniel Scott

I'm confused here - why is your friend teaching Google about Adwords? Wouldn't they already know pretty much everything about it?

Or is he like a bug-finding kind of guy or something?

-Dan

Yeah, I was wondering that myself. I thought maybe this person was teaching Google about Adwords from a customer's point of view or something. That would be really handy; having someone who uses the system teach Google what works and what needs improving. Kind of like a one-man focus group.

[MaskedMarketer]

Originally Posted by Harlan

When Google slaps these people, they raise their CPC to 10, 15 or even 100 a click.
They are saying, we don't want your business.

Will CPC go down for other people (people not getting slapped). That's my concern. Or it won't effect people at all with no review sites?

[Ron Douglas]

Clickbank has the same type of meetings with some of the main users/customers on their network. They invited me to attend last year but my wife was having our son around that time and I couldn't go.

It would be smart for Google to better understand the user experience from real users and not employees.

[JayXtreme]

"Thin affiliate sites".. the ones you speak of Harlan..

Have been getting trouble from Google for a while now... you're a few months behind dude..... maybe your "friend" was telling you about the previous slap and you got confused?...

Peace

Jay

[James Schramko]

(Those pages offer no value and should be eliminated.)

Where is the line drawn between pen-names and blatant Fraud?

Here is what really happens:

Some fat balding 43 year old man is sitting there with his book of infuence next to him at the computer writing acne ads posing as a 20 year old girl saying how well the XYZ cream works.......


Or some 19 year old snotty university kid is sitting in his dorm writing a review site as a relationship expert who loved and lost and then found love again.....

This technique has been popularized and pushed by many marketers for years. Eventually consumers will seek more truth in marketing and want even more proof and facts.

Will marketers be sued for pretend reviews?

Reminds me of TV, movies, radio and news papers where media and agencies manupilate people with propaganda.

Interesting topic and one that will probably change the way affiliate marketing is done as the wild west becomes modernized and regulated.






Note: They are also against squeeze pages. They state in their adwords training section that you should not require users to register.

They want fast loading pages, easy navigation and useful information.

[Harlan]

Responding to Responses to a few points:

Fake review sites are one of the bans of IM. Many continue to get traffic .
I am aware of one site spending in excess of 30k a day on PPC. It's a
junk site with 1 page with two reviews.

It's going down.

When Google says they don't want squeeze pages, thats
Not entirely true.

Nor is it true that they don't want one page sales letters.

It depends on what value you offer the reader.

If you offer nothing that enhances the reader experience -
you are gone.

And ten pages of filler isn't going to make a difference.

Why don't they slap Oprah.com (not that they do PPC)?

Because Oprah gives real content.

And thats what Sergey and Larry want to see.

Peace

[MaskedMarketer]

Originally Posted by ste25

How the heck does Google decide what's a fake review site and what isnt a fake review site??

Yes there are fake review sites and then there are genuine review sites that steer people towards one or two products.

I think they want more content then selling. Most review sites are garbage.. The ones ive seen in IM at least..

And google knows its for making money.. Its not really there to "enhance" the user experience... They want to enhance the user experience.

[Harlan]

Originally Posted by ste25

How the heck does Google decide what's a fake review site and what isnt a fake review site??

Yes there are fake review sites and then there are genuine review sites that steer people towards one or two products.

Ever see a copy of Consumer Reports?

They review dozens of products and different models.

They don't put out an issue on ovens and just review one or two. When people think it's easy to fool someone, they are really annoying many people.

I'm heading to see this guy this week and I'll ask him about the social netwoking but remember, his connection to Google is PPC.

Google listens closely to it's top customers.

It's a hint we should all take.

[MaskedMarketer]

Originally Posted by ste25

Hmmm. What about sites that review say 10 products and recommend the best two?

refer to post #7

[Harlan]

Look, the way it was explained to me, this is all going to be done according
to the Google Algorithm.

And it doesn't care that you reviewed 10 products and only recommended two.

What about "provide a quality experience" don't you get?

Think Google can't detect affiliate links?

Think Google can't detect a spam site that only exists for the click on an affiliate link?

You're not getting this.

You need to provide quality CONTENT!

Or, you're history.

Read the comments I've made so far.

Peace.

[Kael41]

I'm on board with Harlan, as my own little "inside source" is basically repeating the same thing. Google does have a way to detect (whether it's a human targetted or automated fly by detection) the quality of experience website that is in front of it.

Now, obviously the algo's and scores that go into what makes the site one that provides a good experience to the search engine user is closely guarded, as it should be. But, common sense dictates to us what should go into a site that provides some value to a visitor that falls into the good experience zone.

How is the site structured? Are the links easy to follow and interconnect? Is the info on the site merely regurgitated duplicate or spun content or is it unique? Don't forget the importance of LSI...

Look, in the end, it really does not take that much to flesh out a full website that includes a decent site structure, relevant unique articles, and a well thought out link targeting plan for some link juice.

[MaskedMarketer]

Originally Posted by Kael41

Look, in the end, it really does not take that much to flesh out a full website that includes a decent site structure, relevant unique articles, and a well thought out link targeting plan for some link juice.

Google is doing a good job from separating the men from the boys.

Can't wait to see this happen.

[Dana_W]

Originally Posted by Jason Moffatt

If I'm not mistaken, not too long ago they passed some type of legislation in Europe making these type of sites illegal.

I don't know the validity of the law, or whether or not it's really even prosecutable, but do remember something of the sort.

In the US, the FTC seems to want people who are recommending a product to disclose if they are an affiliate for the product. Of course hardly anyone does this, and certainly not the review sites.

Here's a great article about it:

Affiliate Marketing Disclosure Now Required By Law? — Copyblogger

I have mixed feelings about review sites. On the one hand, I think they gum up regular Google search as badly as MFA sites. They make it really, really hard to find genuine reviews and information about products.

On the other hand I know they're great money-makers for a lot of people and I can absolutely see why people would create them.

[Fabian Tan]

The only 'safe' avenues that anyone can say with any certainty are Adwords and selling your own products.

Google have a vested interest in keeping Adwords profitable for people, so you can back it with confidence. For Adsense, not so much so, since it is actually wasting the majority of advertisers' money who don't use the Content Network properly.

Selling your own products will always work, because it's YOUR product, you create them, you sell them. You are in control. You don't depend on others.

I don't trust MFA sites, review sites, CPA offers, direct linking etc. These things have a very low likelihood of lasting the race. Sure I do CPA offers because it's very profitable, but do I expect it to last 10 years down the road? I don't think so. So either milk it dry now or build a long-term business.

Fabian

[MaskedMarketer]

Originally Posted by Fabian Tan

Sure I do CPA offers because it's very profitable, but do I expect it to last 10 years down the road? I don't think so. So either milk it dry now or build a long-term business.
Fabian

CPA can be a long term business depending on the angle you take. Its a media/advertising/ lead gen. company and companies always need that.

The way its done might change but companies always need to advertise and generate leads.

As for fake review sites... what else is there to expect? google is doing what is right..

[the-CPA-guy]

Whenever I try to give quality contents in my landing page , conversion drops

[Harlan]

Originally Posted by the-CPA-guy

Whenever I try to give quality contents in my landing page , conversion drops

Depends what you mean by quality.

Depends on your market.

In any event, if you are doing PPC, you aren't going to have much of a choice, are you?

[lakshaybehl]

Looks like far too many people are affected with Google Slaps...

I think these are healthy.... these are just filters that clean all the garbage and leave the system with entirely useful and relevent posts/reviews etc.

Of course you can post affiliate links, but the real meat of the stuff has got to be just that... REAL MEAT OF THE STUFF. Or you deserve to be slapped.

-Lakshay

[Darth Executor]

Originally Posted by Harlan

Look, the way it was explained to me, this is all going to be done according
to the Google Algorithm.

And it doesn't care that you reviewed 10 products and only recommended two.

What about "provide a quality experience" don't you get?

Think Google can't detect affiliate links?

Think Google can't detect a spam site that only exists for the click on an affiliate link?

You're not getting this.

You need to provide quality CONTENT!

Google's algorithm is a stupid machine. More complex than yahoo or MSN but still a stupid machine. If you know it well enough you can provide a decent amount of crap content that doesn't trigger any alarms and it'll treat your article out of a 10000 piece of crap plr package you bought for 7 bucks in a WSO like it was published in the NY Times.

[milan]

This is nothing new. It may be a new implementation of the slap but not a new Google policy.

I have an internal Google report (ooops) from 2007. and it's very clear they were clearly after "thin affiliate" sites even then. It's also no secret they call them like that and they don't like them.

I understand that marketers freak out when they hear of a new Google slap coming, and that you would like to hear more details.

Here is an example of a slap:
If you review is not unique, the chances that you just pasted a 'review' given by the product vendor might be high.

See? There are patterns. It's not like it's impossible for a machine to figure out everything that's fake.

[Harlan]

Originally Posted by Darth Executor

Google's algorithm is a stupid machine. More complex than yahoo or MSN but still a stupid machine. If you know it well enough you can provide a decent amount of crap content that doesn't trigger any alarms and it'll treat your article out of a 10000 piece of crap plr package you bought for 7 bucks in a WSO like it was published in the NY Times.

Still trying to scam the big G.

They'll catch up with you sooner or later and ban you from AdWords all together.

[Harlan]

Originally Posted by milan

Here is an example of a slap:
If you review is not unique, the chances that you just pasted a 'review' given by the product vendor might be high.

See? There are patterns. It's not like it's impossible for a machine to figure out everything that's fake.

They are looking much beyond duplicate content.

Everyone is looking for the quick fix.

This isn't going to work long term.

[Thomas Belknap]

I do find it pretty funny to see people put so much effort into beating Google instead of just working with them.

[Harlan]

Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap

I do find it pretty funny to see people put so much effort into beating Google instead of just working with them.

That's how we got into this situation in the first place mate!

Peace.

[milan]

Originally Posted by Harlan

They are looking much beyond duplicate content.

Everyone is looking for the quick fix.

This isn't going to work long term.

That was just an example how a fake review can be detected by machine.

But the policy is not new. But that's clear for a long time: they have it in their TOS.

[Matt MacPherson]

I wonder how Google feels about sales letters. Does a sales letter designed
to convert readers into buyers provide a "quality user experience"?

It's a fine line to draw.

Regards,
Matt

[Harlan]

Originally Posted by Matt MacPherson

I wonder how Google feels about sales letters. Does a sales letter designed
to convert readers into buyers provide a "quality user experience"?

It's a fine line to draw.

Regards,
Matt

Google doesn't like sites that are just a long sales letter.

It's quite blunt about it.

Unless...

You really know what you are doing with PPC.

[Mike Hill]

Well I may as well let this spill out in this thread since it has to do with Google... But I've heard from insider sources at Google that they are planning to slap all the Word Press blogs that sell advertising because those blogs are only there to make money from the paid ads.

Google is furious because these blogs are "stealing" advertising dollars from Google and once more these blogs are getting free traffic within Google's organic search.

Mike Hill

PS... Nice one eh?

[simplosys3]

Google has turned out the 'Big brother' notion on its head, with slick marketing they are doing their damn best to get in some dollars. We all know the knocks that their ad sense program received of late with the clicks not amounting to much, resulting in a loss of revenue for the publishers. I guess, they will probably come out with these fake reviews, seeing that some of the other sites are already doing it, there is no reason as to why google should not do the same.