Marketing With Integrity On The Internet

17 replies
I have become totally disillusioned with the whole IM community especially in the IM niche.

Like most novices I am trying to establish an ethical way of making money online without resorting to writing sales letters that:

1/ Blatantly lie about income stats.
2/ Invent characters that supposedly found success with their system and hence sell their blueprint i.e. "16 year old makes $$$$$$$ in 3 months!"
3/ Sales letters that tell you what the product is not but very little as to what the product is about. How can anyone make an informed decision to buy a product or service based on this kind of sales letter.
4/ Upsells should be identified on the sales letter, perhaps not the price but certainly what is available.
5/ Pre-sell videos that go on forever with no means of pausing or fast forwarding.
6/ Emails from so called Internet Marketers stating they recommend this product because it has worked for them or it has been produced by someone they know very well. I once opted in to the lists of many of these marketers and the emails I received promoting the same offer were not very different at all, it seems everyone knows everyone else.
7/ The sites that carry many of these products have less integrity than many of these marketers by allowing these sales letters without questioning the authenticity of the content.
8/ Marketers with programming knowledge or the funds to outsource who create systems that insert different names or locations in sales letters that make it seem local to your location. I'm certain there are numerous other underhand systems created by marketers in order for them to capture a prospect.

The list goes on................................................ .............

Over the past week I have received many emails relating to the recent Google algorithm update and the effects it will have on the industry. To me it's common sense that at some point Google will get wise to most of these tactics and many marketers will lose their main livelihood. Already many of the so called money making systems that have been produced by these people are now obsolete and will not work in the US and probably the rest of the world in the not too distant future.

It's also amusing to me the number of times I see comments all over the web extolling the virtues of the Warrior forum which I wholeheartedly endorse. However, many of us log into the forum to search for reviews from people who have bought the kind of products introduced to us by these so called marketers. Why would we do that if we trusted in the integrity of the person promoting the product? We don't! That's the sad issue, we go on receiving these emails (voluntarily) and researching these products in the hope that one day there will be a genuine product from an ethical marketer that does not follow the IM crowd but considers integrity as his/her byword.

On occasions when I have thought I had found that certain internet marketer that was different from the crowd ultimately they end up down the same road as all the rest. Even some of the WSO special offers turn out to be re-hashed previous offers despite the so called favorable comments associated with them.

When Google takes action everyone in this community tends to re-visit their business models to ensure they comply with the new initiatives and yet everyone is aware of what Google is trying to achieve. Whilst I agree that they have too much power I do believe they are ethical and they do act with integrity.

These days automation is at the core of most new product launches. Whether to promote site creation, automatic posting, automatic backlinks etc. etc. all they are doing is bucking the system and will be prone to obsolescence when Google gets wise. Where will this leave the ordinary person that has bought these products once they become totally useless? Let me answer that, we will be the target for new re-hashed products that once again will try and buck the system.

Google governs most things on the internet because of their ultimate power but why does this industry not have its own regulatory body? If this exists then please steer me in the right direction so I may look out for their seal of approval on sales letters, emails etc.

These are purely personal views but I'm sure I echo the thoughts of many in this community and it would be interesting to know how other people feel including the many experienced marketers who offer these products.
#integrity #internet #marketing
  • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
    Originally Posted by provman View Post

    I'm sure I echo the thoughts of many in this community
    Yes, you do. For proof, read any of the half dozen or more screeds on the same subject(s) posted here in the past week or so.

    Was there something new you wanted to add, or did you just feel like joining the choir?


    Paul
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    • Profile picture of the author provman
      My main reason for writing the post was to find out if there is a regulatory body or if there are any plans in the pipeline for something along these lines.

      Please forgive me for wading straight in without checking for previous posts.

      Martin
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      • Profile picture of the author birdman87
        Originally Posted by provman View Post

        My main reason for writing the post was to find out if there is a regulatory body or if there are any plans in the pipeline for something along these lines.

        Please forgive me for wading straight in without checking for previous posts.

        Martin
        I'm glad there isn't a regulatory body. It would ruin the freedom and opportunity that's around on the internet. Would hate to see the day that you have to apply for and pay for a license on the internet. Doubt it will happen though.

        If you want to know what a regulatory body would give approval to, just go to Google and follow whatever they give their seal of approval to.
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        • Profile picture of the author provman
          Originally Posted by birdman87 View Post

          I'm glad there isn't a regulatory body. It would ruin the freedom and opportunity that's around on the internet. Would hate to see the day that you have to apply for and pay for a license on the internet. Doubt it will happen though.

          If you want to know what a regulatory body would give approval to, just go to Google and follow whatever they give their seal of approval to.
          Thank you Birdman, I totally agree that this forum has helped more than any other resource I have at my disposal.

          I'm not tarring everyone with the same brush but that's the effect these marketers have on the IM community. I fully understand there are many genuine people with integrity who participate in this forum and I shall meet these people on my IM journey.

          I'm in total support of freedom and opportunity and this should never be curtailed however, I'm not looking for licensing or such just someone or some entity I can trust and value their recommendations.

          Martin
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          • Profile picture of the author Gary Smith
            I struggled with the whole 'evil IM' for a while but I've moved past that. I know that sounds a little condescending and it doesn't really reflect my attitude. I'm a just-getting-by IMer myself and the things you mentioned used to frustrate me as well.

            But...

            The things you mentioned are a major distraction if you allow them to be, and most likely the cause of many a failed online marketer.

            All the time you have spent worrying about unethical, questionable, immoral tactics is time that you have lost... and you will never get that time back. You could have used that time much more productively building your own business and demonstrating that you are one of the 'good guys'. Sure you are frustrated, but as Jim Rohn used to say... turn your frustration into fascination. Be fascinated that some people manage to make a good living in ways that semm less than kosher - and then find a way to build your own successful business in a way that reflects your own honesty and integrity. It may take a little while longer, but guys like Paul Myers and Paul Counts seem to do okay with a transparent, honest business style!
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          • Profile picture of the author dgridley
            I, like you, have a pretty dim view of many of the IM tactics we both have run across.. 99% of the IM emails I get go right to the trash bin for that very reason.. those IMers only hurt themselves in the long run. Sometimes it seems like the bulk of the IM philosophy is based on preying on the noob, because anyone who has "been around" would never buy in to that swill.

            Originally Posted by provman View Post

            Thank you Birdman, I totally agree that this forum has helped more than any other resource I have at my disposal.

            I'm not tarring everyone with the same brush but that's the effect these marketers have on the IM community. I fully understand there are many genuine people with integrity who participate in this forum and I shall meet these people on my IM journey.

            I'm in total support of freedom and opportunity and this should never be curtailed however, I'm not looking for licensing or such just someone or some entity I can trust and value their recommendations.

            Martin
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    • Profile picture of the author birdman87
      Intelligently written, I do agree with a good deal of what you say. However, I do thin you're looking at this subject with a bit of an overly negative mindset. There are some really genuinly lovely people of integrity on this forum, a lot of the start of the work is weeding out the crap from the good stuff.

      I have felt a bit negative in the past, even about the forum. But then again I pretty much recommend everybody to go on it and learn. So far I've not really given back anything to people in this community, I'm not succesfull enough to do that. However, I've been given and have learnt one hell of a lot from everybody.

      I was in the library the other day and saw a 'commercial' book on Internet Marketing. It was full of useless and innefficient ideas and tips. You can get pretty much the equivilent of a University degree in IM just from this one forum.

      You're just learning the direction you want to move towards at the moment. This is all part of the process. Don't worry about it.
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      • Profile picture of the author theemperor
        Provman,

        Believe me your frustration is shared by many. However there is little you can do about it. There is a big market for selling dreams - have a look at the clickbank catalogue if you don't believe me.

        What you can do to make money ethically is to either sell products you would recommend to a friend, or buy a product before promoting it. I think you might be happier promoting non-IM products. There is a whole world of physical product affilate programmes that make people good money.

        Starting with Amazon who are popular, and some people make a full time living selling Amazon products alone. I am currently making $1000+ a month on physical product I am promoting. It has nothing to do with IM. Infact I did a search and no one on the warrior forum has ever mention this particular affiliate programme - so I know there is little competition from the more experienced IMers!

        There is good money in IM but most money in the world is made by selling non-IM products to non-IM people - think of it that way
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  • Profile picture of the author PaulMark
    I'm not sure that IM is any more "evil" than the rest of the planet. Every market has it's share of charlatans.

    That's why so many here in the forum stress building long lasting loyalty with your subscribers. It does not take long for people to spot the pattern and start looking for those they can really trust.
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  • Profile picture of the author NateRivers
    I know what you're saying...

    But, marketing in general is the art of getting people to pull out their wallet for something they don't absolutely need. It's good for the economy for people to spend money, and I doubt anyone is going to let their kids starve because they're buying IM products.

    It's 100% up to you and every other adult to make the decision to purchase something or not.

    If in your gut you feel like a product, or a list you've subscribed to isn't what it's claiming to be move on.

    It's basic economics that where there is a opportunity for gain, there will always be people that will use any tactic necessary whether it's legal, illegal, ethical, or unethical.
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  • Profile picture of the author globalpro
    Martin,

    While I understand what you are saying, you can't pinpoint the 'evils' of IM. Unethical marketing is pervasive in all areas of business. Look at the business/marketing practices of the credit card industries, banks, Wall Street, etc..

    It goes all the way back to the garden with the serpent 'selling' Eve on being god.

    I think the only thing you can do is make the decision on how you want to do business and go with it. At the end of the day, you are the only one that can make that choice.

    Personally, when I look in the mirror, I am happy with the person that's looking back at me...

    OK, maybe a few less wrinkles and a bit more hair, but everything else is good.

    Thanks,

    John
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    • Profile picture of the author Trent Raymond
      Hi Martin,

      I definitely understand how you feel.

      When I came into the IM space back in October of last year, I was amazed at the number of seemingly "fluff" products that existed. After spending quite a bit of time reading sales pages and this forum, I was very fortunate to finally stumble across a post from a guy names LMC here on the forum. I believe there is a link to that post on one of my recent blog posts.

      In his post, LMC went on to explain how he built a portfolio of 235 websites (its now over 630) that all sell physical products. No IM fluff there. He also went into a fair amount of detail on how to do it...and he had NOTHING to sell.

      That was exactly what I needed to hear at the time, and since then I have built 25+ of these niche sites and plan to build many more. Why? First and most obvious - the strategie works and these sites are making me money. Its not a massive amount yet, but it increases by a meaningful amount every month. In fact, last month it was up 100% and this month is following a similar trend.

      The other reason why I like this approach is that it is truly passive. I don't have to create products and I don't have to blog continuously. It really is a business where you can build it, get it ranked, and then sit back and collect the money.

      They key is to understand that you are going after long-tail keywords (3000-5000 searches on month) with little competition (under 20,000 competing sites is ideal, but I have niches where I've beaten 150,000 sites), so each sites isn't going to make you more than a few hundred a month. To make a living (or get rich) all you need to do is build more and more sites - which I can assure, is not that difficult once you understand how to do it. Hint: they KEY is the niche research.

      So, there you have it. A way to make money online that is viable, minus all the BS and the hype. I hope you take it to heart and act on it

      Trent

      PS. For what is worth, I have already blogged about how I built my sites in more detail - and its all free.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dave Rodman
    Banned
    Have you ever watched the show "American Greed" on CNBC? The scams on the show are pretty interesting, but even more interesting are the idiots that fall hook, line, and sinker.

    I usually feel bad for the people, but they are just as greedy as the people that sell them on the dream. If they weren't greedy, they wouldn't think they could make money for doing nothing.

    So anyways, I can't control the actions of sellers so why bother? It's a lot easier if people just make better buying decisions.

    I don't have any ill-will towards IM'ers or gurus because I always had realistic expectations going in for what the product was going to do. If I didn't want to buy, I didn't buy. If I did buy, I took responsibility for the purchase.
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  • Profile picture of the author Tim Wright
    Hey Martin,

    I think you'll find that a lot of people have struggled with these same kinds of questions.

    Most of us have been ripped off at one time or another by unethical marketers who promised us something they couldn't deliver or downright lied to us in both their promises and their products.

    As PaulMark and others have pointed out, this certainly isn't limited to internet marketing, but you can certainly find a lot of examples to prove your point.

    I agree with John, though, that the best thing we can do is to make a choice about how we're going to run our own businesses. To paraphrase Gandhi, we need to become the change we want to see.

    I've also found that there are a LOT of incredibly honest and ethical people working full-time in the IM niche. They are true businessmen and businesswomen to understand that being unethical is a "short-term" strategy that will quickly disappear. One of the most valuable assets in any business is "trust." Trust is something that can take some time to establish, but can be destroyed overnight. Most true businessmen understand this and are not willing to compromise their integrity for a quick buck.

    As Nate pointed out, however, the business of marketing and advertising is based on motivating people to pull out their wallets and buy something. And the unfortunate reality is that most people will throw their money at "hype" based on something that is "quick and easy" rather than investing in something that will require some effort and patience on their part.

    While Google's new algorithm may be their attempt to police integrity in the online marketing arena, I'm not sure this will make much of a difference in the long run.

    It's an important topic and something I think we'll be talking a lot more about in the days ahead.

    Thanks for opening the discussion.

    With Kind Regards,

    Tim
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    • Profile picture of the author provman
      Originally Posted by timowri View Post

      Hey Martin,

      I think you'll find that a lot of people have struggled with these same kinds of questions.

      Most of us have been ripped off at one time or another by unethical marketers who promised us something they couldn't deliver or downright lied to us in both their promises and their products.

      As PaulMark and others have pointed out, this certainly isn't limited to internet marketing, but you can certainly find a lot of examples to prove your point.

      I agree with John, though, that the best thing we can do is to make a choice about how we're going to run our own businesses. To paraphrase Gandhi, we need to become the change we want to see.

      I've also found that there are a LOT of incredibly honest and ethical people working full-time in the IM niche. They are true businessmen and businesswomen to understand that being unethical is a "short-term" strategy that will quickly disappear. One of the most valuable assets in any business is "trust." Trust is something that can take some time to establish, but can be destroyed overnight. Most true businessmen understand this and are not willing to compromise their integrity for a quick buck.

      As Nate pointed out, however, the business of marketing and advertising is based on motivating people to pull out their wallets and buy something. And the unfortunate reality is that most people will throw their money at "hype" based on something that is "quick and easy" rather than investing in something that will require some effort and patience on their part.

      While Google's new algorithm may be their attempt to police integrity in the online marketing arena, I'm not sure this will make much of a difference in the long run.

      It's an important topic and something I think we'll be talking a lot more about in the days ahead.

      Thanks for opening the discussion.

      With Kind Regards,

      Tim
      Thank you Tim for this synopsis of the discussion to date.

      I'd like to thank everyone personally for taking the time out of their busy schedules to reply, I have found the comments from everyone very useful indeed.

      Deep down in my heart I knew there were many people in this community who felt the same as I do but I take on board all your constructive comments.

      Keep them coming in forthcoming discussions...........

      Kind Regards,

      Martin
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      • Profile picture of the author marciayudkin
        But, marketing in general is the art of getting people to pull out their wallet for something they don't absolutely need.
        I was about to strongly disagree with this definition until I realized the significance of the word "absolutely" in it.

        After thinking it over, I do agree to an extent with the definition, but I still want to say that there are many, many marketers who have not gone over to the "dark side," who only promote products or services that truly benefit those who do buy and who promote them without using any of the tactics the original poster complained about.

        Ethical marketing may not make you a billionaire, but it can sustain you. I have been making a living using it for more than 30 years now, and most of my clients come to me wanting help in being promoted in ways they feel comfortable with, as well - not according to the principle that whatever sells the most is best.

        Best regards,
        Marcia Yudkin
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  • Profile picture of the author Kierkegaard
    People have been hyping and hawking their overpriced crap for centuries. It goes on in everywhere that money changes hands. This is especially common when it comes to selling something that will help your customers get work. Whether it be cures to ailments that prevent you from working or opportunities to work for youself and own your own business.

    300 years ago it was the quacks and mountebanks selling their various cures to a desperate market. With no real difference between quack doctors and regular doctors (with the latter just as likely to kill you than cure you) and no sick pay or welfare, people were prepared to buy anything that promised to cure of prevent illness. Why? Not to make them feel better or even live longer, this may be a bonus, but the real reason you bought these 'cures' was to avoid having to take time off work sick. If you didn't work, you starved, simple as that.

    With fierce competition all trying to cash-in (a simple bottle of vegetable pills would sell for a weeks wages or more) the quacks all competed to out-hype their wares. Why spend money on pills that 'only' cured 100 illnesses when you can buy one that cured 879 known ailments and prevented 25 of the very worst ones altogether.

    The same is true with some IM products today. Why buy a WSO that claims you can make $100 a day when a similar priced one reckons you can get $10,000 a month. I don't care because I'm going to get this one that promises $25,000 a month!

    What is really fascinating is to compare the hand-bills these quacks would give out and the sales pages of some Internet Marketers. Both are very long with lots of big claims use of BOLD text and Captilization For Effect!

    http://thequackdoctor.com/wp-content...3/handbill.jpg

    However, it was from these beginnings that real medicine evolved. Whose to say that a less hyped, more professional, approach to IM isn't just around the corner?
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