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What is a mom and pop web site to do?

by carlos123
31 replies
I've been reading a bit lately about Google's latest attempt to weed out junk content created primarily to get backlinks and not as an end in itself.

If the usual article directory, squidoo, hubpages, etc. ways of getting backlinks are not very effective anymore what is a mom and pop business website to do?

In a finite world of only so many web sites at the top of the rankings for a given category or niche what are all the other web sites to do to get high ranking?

If backlinks are becoming harder to get (at least in the usually accepted internet marketing ways) what are business websites to do?

They can't really compete on content alone. I mean yeah, hairdressers (for example) could focus on adding good content to their sites but how much good content do you think a hairdresser could add to their sites? And given the fact that there many hairdressers in a given city how can they compete for the top ten spots in Google in such a way that other hairdressers are not going to do the same thing?

In other words if everyone focuses on good content (not a bad thing for search engine users mind you), most web sites won't ever make it. There are only 10 spots at the top of each niche in the search results. Anything less than being in the top 10 is near worthless in my opinion.

Just thinking out loud in case anyone wants to discuss the overall picture to all this.

Carlos
#mom #pop #site #web
  • Profile picture of the author LegitIncomes
    Originally Posted by carlos123 View Post

    I've been reading a bit lately about Google's latest attempt to weed out junk content created primarily to get backlinks and not as an end in itself.

    If the usual article directory, squidoo, hubpages, etc. ways of getting backlinks are not very effective anymore what is a mom and pop business website to do?

    In a finite world of only so many web sites at the top of the rankings for a given category or niche what are all the other web sites to do to get high ranking?

    If backlinks are becoming harder to get (at least in the usually accepted internet marketing ways) what are business websites to do?

    They can't really compete on content alone. I mean yeah, hairdressers (for example) could focus on adding good content to their sites but how much good content do you think a hairdresser could add to their sites? And given the fact that there many hairdressers in a given city how can they compete for the top ten spots in Google in such a way that other hairdressers are not going to do the same thing?

    In other words if everyone focuses on good content (not a bad thing for search engine users mind you), most web sites won't ever make it. There are only 10 spots at the top of each niche in the search results. Anything less than being in the top 10 is near worthless in my opinion.

    Just thinking out loud in case anyone wants to discuss the overall picture to all this.

    Carlos
    This is actually GREAT news to the "mom & pop" websites. In my opinion, they are more likely to be doing things "by the book"...so the more Google cracks down on the junk material, the better off they'll be.

    Hairdressers could add a LOT of material, off the top of my head, high quality articles that deal with selecting a stylist, what kind of conditioner/shampoo for your hair type, how to deal with your hair in the summer/winter, etc... all kinds of possibilities.

    As for links, the local hairdresser would probably want to start with high quality links from other local businesses, so get out and meet people, head to the chamber of commerce meetings, etc...

    High quality content + REAL backlinks = winner (in my opinion anyway).
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    • Profile picture of the author Sandra Martinez
      I have been promoting local businesses with google places, local directories, niche directories, and mostly with video.

      youtube is awesome, you have them sneaking on first page within minutes in some cases.
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    • Profile picture of the author carlos123
      Originally Posted by LegitIncomes View Post

      As for links, the local hairdresser would probably want to start with high quality links from other local businesses, so get out and meet people, head to the chamber of commerce meetings, etc...

      High quality content + REAL backlinks = winner (in my opinion anyway).
      Hmm...sounds great in theory but to be honest with you I have never understood how to get REAL backlinks from...well...other businesses. Businesses don't want to help their competition so why would one hairdresser put a link on their site to another hairdresser. I don't think they would.

      Likewise why would a carpenter put a link to a hairdresser on their site? I suppose one could convince a carpenter to put such a link on their site for a backlink but such backlinks are not guaranteed to stay up not to mention that a link from a hairdresser to a carpentry site would have almost no value for SEO ranking.

      High quality content...yes I can see some potential there but again have you ever personally linked to a hairdresser site? Or any other such site? I know I haven't. Why bother. I am not into helping local businesses by linking to them as an act of good will. I don't anyone is...at least none that I know of.

      So how does one get REAL quality backlinks if one can no longer, as easily, get the cheap kind that are gotten through article submission, Hubpages, etc..?

      Carlos
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  • Profile picture of the author sarahberra
    You have some good points! I think most of us have no idea how all of this is going to shake out. Only time will tell. Some sites are noticing a boost in traffic. I think back links are still vital though. Google is mainly trying to get rid of scraper sites.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mike McAleer
    I think that google will like the mom and pop sites somewhat as long as their content is unique which it usually is!
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    • Profile picture of the author Gail Ogden
      I think that Google is always trying to bring good content to the top of their searches, so any Mom and Pop site that has good content will have a better shot. Trouble is Google's bots cannot necessarily tell good content so this means they will sometimes confuse a lot of content with good content. But I still think it's worth it having good content, especially if you want to make money because Google can bring a site up, but in the end the site won't make the money it could make if it all that it offers is garbage content.
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      • Profile picture of the author carlos123
        Originally Posted by Gail Ogden View Post

        I think that Google is always trying to bring good content to the top of their searches, so any Mom and Pop site that has good content will have a better shot.
        Trouble is that anyway you look at it...there is room for only 10 sites in any one particular business category in Google's organic search listings.

        I mean yeah...there will be some spill over and ranking for subsidiary keywords but for the main business keywords being targeted there are only 10 spots at the top.

        With cheap backlinking it was just a matter of whoever did the work and got the backlinks going artificially enough to outrank the rest but with great content...well...that's a lot more work (nothing wrong with that). Throw in waiting for natural incoming backlinks to sites that people don't normally link to from their own sites and well...it makes SEO work real difficult I think.

        I guess I am just wondering how small business sites can get natural incoming backlinks built up. I mean in the way that it was relatively easy at one point to get incoming and worthwhile links SEO wise through things like article writing, Hubpages, and so forth.

        Google would of course love it if we all just allowed natural incoming backlinks to occur while we all wait around for them but that's just not realistic. Business have to be assertive in getting incoming links.

        How to get useful and SEO worthy links in the new internet era with waiting on them, remains to be seen I guess. Take away, what I call cheap internet marketing methods of getting backlinks like ezine articles, Hubpages, etc. and it seems that there aren't many easy ways to get backlinks left.

        Video linking is definitely one possibility.

        Carlos
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  • Profile picture of the author markowe
    Some of the highest ranking sites out there are mom and pop sites that break ALL the rules of SEO and web design good practice, but just beat the others out by virtue of authority status, good (if atrociously presented) content and huge numbers of people linking to them. And all without any real conscious thought behind it - in fact they probably don't even know how much traffic they are getting, some of them!
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    • Profile picture of the author dgridley
      That's a good point.. sometimes ignorance IS bliss..

      Originally Posted by markowe View Post

      Some of the highest ranking sites out there are mom and pop sites that break ALL the rules of SEO and web design good practice, but just beat the others out by virtue of authority status, good (if atrociously presented) content and huge numbers of people linking to them. And all without any real conscious thought behind it - in fact they probably don't even know how much traffic they are getting, some of them!
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      • Profile picture of the author carlos123
        Originally Posted by dgridley View Post

        That's a good point.. sometimes ignorance IS bliss..
        Yes...it is a good point but it's also the exception and not the rule or we would all be promoting the ignorant way of building web sites as the way to internet success.

        Carlos
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  • Profile picture of the author lotsofsnow
    Mom and pop sites usually cater to a local audience.

    There is not that much competition in the first place.

    Also: Facebook with the localized pages offers an excellent vehicle for these web sites.
    Somebody only has to show these local companies how to use it.
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    • Profile picture of the author aseper
      I'm quite interested to see how this all shakes out myself. I was actually just starting to learn how to use article directory sites as I'm pretty new to this stuff. I guess it's a good thing I hadn't actually employed any of those tactics.
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  • Profile picture of the author NicoleBeckett
    Originally Posted by carlos123 View Post

    If the usual article directory, squidoo, hubpages, etc. ways of getting backlinks are not very effective anymore what is a mom and pop business website to do?
    You can still get links and traffic from the article directories. The entire key with the Panda update is to focus on *quality* content. Some of the bigger article directories are tightening their submission guidelines, but if you're publishing quality, information content, you have nothing to worry about.



    Originally Posted by carlos123 View Post

    They can't really compete on content alone.
    Why not?

    No matter how small or local your business is, you still have a target market. That target market will always have questions, concerns, and problems that they need someone to solve. By publishing content that answers their questions and gives them solutions, you're the one they're going to see as an expert - and, hopefully, the one they're going to turn to when they need/want to spend money.

    Originally Posted by carlos123 View Post

    In other words if everyone focuses on good content (not a bad thing for search engine users mind you), most web sites won't ever make it.
    No matter what Google does, there will always be people who think they can cheat the system, or think that they can get away with doing the bare minimum, or think that they can get by with low-quality content.

    Don't focus on what everyone else is doing. Instead, focus on publishing the very best content that you can - both on-site and off. If you can establish yourself as an expert and be a valuable source of information, the links will come, and you will rise up in the rankings.
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    • Profile picture of the author aseper
      Originally Posted by NicoleBeckett View Post


      Don't focus on what everyone else is doing. Instead, focus on publishing the very best content that you can - both on-site and off. If you can establish yourself as an expert and be a valuable source of information, the links will come, and you will rise up in the rankings.
      That is some fantastic advice. It's just frustrating sometimes to see sites with crap content in your niche be ranked so much higher than you. It's tempting to take shortcuts, but you just have to have faith that it will catch up to them in the end. Great content should hopefully trump all.
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    • Profile picture of the author carlos123
      Originally Posted by NicoleBeckett View Post

      If you can establish yourself as an expert and be a valuable source of information, the links will come, and you will rise up in the rankings.
      What I was getting at is that all 100 hairdressers in my city (there may be a lot more than that) are all wanting to establish themselves as experts.

      So what happens when 100 site owners want that? Guess what. There's only 10 spots at the top.

      Anyway you cut it 90 of those site owners aren't going to make it at least with their web sites.

      Not everyone that tries real hard and focuses on quality content makes it to the top ten coveted spots. Not when there are another 99 people wanting to do the same thing.

      Of course that was also true of the cheap ways of getting backlinks but perhaps less so I think in that most business owners saw that whole realm as the magic realm in which internet marketers and SEO people played in and they didn't know much about it at all.

      I am not saying that focusing on great content is no good. Not at all.

      I am just wondering if there are some ways to get backlinks that don't involve so much work as building up a site's quality content.

      I am not adverse to work. Not at all. I routinely have worked 16 hour days on some of my own stuff. Just wondering out loud is all.

      Carlos
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      • Profile picture of the author carlos123
        For sure I am going to focus on encouraging local business owners to beef up the content, quality content, on their sites.

        There is no question of that.

        But from there I am less certain about the next step at this point. Used to be that the next step was writing articles and submitting them to ezine. Perhaps creating some Hubpages, Squidoo pages, on the same niche subject and linking back from them artificially in the hopes of fooling Google to rank our site or the one we were working with higher than it would have warranted naturally.

        But now? I don't know.

        Such sites have taken massive hits in the ranking (I mean the usual Web 2.0 sites that were being used to feed backlinks to the sites of our choice).

        I am not overly concerned for my own sites mind you. I focus on quality all the way.

        But given that I will shortly be rolling out a new push to make some income from building web sites for local businesses I am not sure what to offer them (other than the actual site building).

        To provide them the quality content I provide for my own sites would cause them to...well...go broke LOL. Such content takes forever to research and write and can't be bought for the usual, pay a writer $1 for 500 words type of gig.

        I guess I could always encourage them to provide such content to me without creating it myself, to use cheap writers from various outsourcing places to write it for them or something.

        But again, after the great content is produced, I am not sure how to get backlinks these days other than from the usual sites that took a beating in the recent Google update.

        Carlos
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      • Profile picture of the author NicoleBeckett
        Originally Posted by carlos123 View Post

        What I was getting at is that all 100 hairdressers in my city (there may be a lot more than that) are all wanting to establish themselves as experts.

        So what happens when 100 site owners want that? Guess what. There's only 10 spots at the top.

        Anyway you cut it 90 of those site owners aren't going to make it at least with their web sites.

        Not everyone that tries real hard and focuses on quality content makes it to the top ten coveted spots. Not when there are another 99 people wanting to do the same thing.

        Of course that was also true of the cheap ways of getting backlinks but perhaps less so I think in that most business owners saw that whole realm as the magic realm in which internet marketers and SEO people played in and they didn't know much about it at all.

        I am not saying that focusing on great content is no good. Not at all.

        I am just wondering if there are some ways to get backlinks that don't involve so much work as building up a site's quality content.

        I am not adverse to work. Not at all. I routinely have worked 16 hour days on some of my own stuff. Just wondering out loud is all.

        Carlos

        In all honesty, a sizable portion of web owners out there (in every niche) don't have the ability or the time to produce the high-quality content that's going to generate quality links, that will, in turn, move them up in the rankings. That's why so many people turn to shortcuts, like paying for links or just publishing any 'ol thing in an effort to get a quick link.

        Are there other ways to get backlinks? Sure. However, if you really want the high PR links that are going to make a difference, you need to give people a reason to link to you. The only way to do that is with awesome content.

        After all, what would it take for YOU to link to somebody on your website? My guess is that it would take something pretty fantastic.
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        • Profile picture of the author carlos123
          Originally Posted by NicoleBeckett View Post

          Are there other ways to get backlinks? Sure. However, if you really want the high PR links that are going to make a difference, you need to give people a reason to link to you. The only way to do that is with awesome content.

          After all, what would it take for YOU to link to somebody on your website? My guess is that it would take something pretty fantastic.
          Actually Nicole, I don't ever link out to other sites on my own sites. Well...hmm...not usually I should say.

          I mean if I find a great site full of wonderful documentation and content about my favorite software program I don't go off and make a link to it on my business web site for example. I just bookmark it in my browser and call it a day linking wise.

          That's the thing that I just don't get about getting backlinks.

          Why would anyone link to a business site such as a hairdresser site from a web site of their own?

          Would they not just bookmark the site just as I do when I find a great site but don't create a link to it on any of my sites?

          This is one reason that these artificial means of creating backlinks have been useful. Because we didn't need to rely on anyone "naturally" finding it within themselves to call up their web developer and tell them to create a link to this wonderful...well...hairdresser site they just found, on their own site.

          But with these artificial means of creating backlinks falling into more and more disrepute with Google...well...it would seem that we are back to having to create content and just letting such content rise to the top on it's own, naturally.

          Which isn't a bad thing mind you but it means that we won't be able to fool Google anymore or as easily I guess LOL.

          In the end I will focus on great content.

          But it was nice to know that I could create an artificial and useful backlink from places like Hubpages and other such web 2 properties. Not sure such techniques work very well anymore.

          Carlos
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  • Profile picture of the author Kevin_Hutto
    SEO is only one traffic source. In many cases, SEO isn't even the best place to focus for small local businesses. They can own the #1 spot way easier with Places and PPC. And there wont be that many clicks for hairdressers in Paducah Kentucky or wherever anyways...
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  • Profile picture of the author clickwork
    Pretty much nothing differently to what they are doing already, really! Google likes to release this information as something of a warning signal but to be honest, all I do all day long is make blog submissions via My Article Networ and Linkvana, Directory Submissions etc...

    It's still very possible to get in through the back door (so to speak)...just look at different linkbuilding options e.g. social submissions, blog submissions, guest blogging, sponsoring events, donation pages, paid linking (on quality, relevant sites) etc.
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  • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
    Originally Posted by carlos123 View Post

    what are all the other web sites to do to get high ranking?
    Figure out that what they want is not really the high ranking in the first place, and find another way to get what they want.
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    • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
      Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

      Figure out that what they want is not really the high ranking in the first place, and find another way to get what they want.
      WINNER WINNER CHICKEN DINNER!

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    • Profile picture of the author carlos123
      Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

      Figure out that what they want is not really the high ranking in the first place, and find another way to get what they want.
      Hmm...not sure what you are saying exactly CDarklock. At first I thought what you said sounded pretty silly until I observed your high post count and the thanks given to you for saying what you did which implies that you know your internet marketing.

      Let's see...

      A business might not want high ranking??

      Hmm...I suppose I can see that if you mean that what they really want is to increase their business and make more money. There may be other ways to achieve that without a high ranking...for sure there are but, getting a high ranking is an almost certain way to achieve that financial success internet wise (all other things being equal).

      So internet wise what else is there besides high ranking as the primo desirable thing to have?

      If you care to elaborate I'd like to hear more.

      Carlos
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      • Profile picture of the author Dave Rodman
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        Mom/Pop websites will be doomed, but it's not because of Google. It's because they don't spend the time, money, resources to actually promote their site.

        Not sure if you realized, but Google has a new RECIPE search tool. The recipe's need to be in the "Rich Snippets" format so it's easier for Google to organize.

        Bigger recipe sites put their content in that format in advance. Smaller websites did not and got killed by this update.

        So the smaller recipe sites will have a harder time keeping up, despite the fact that it's not really that hard of a change.

        Gotta at least do enough to be IN THE GAME
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      • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
        Originally Posted by carlos123 View Post

        getting a high ranking is an almost certain way to achieve that financial success internet wise (all other things being equal).
        What makes you money is to get your product or service in front of the people who want it and will pay money to get it.

        Being #1 on Google puts your website in front of... well, someone. But if it's not the people who want what you have and will pay for it, you may as well be buried on page 259.

        Now, it's entirely possible that you can be #1 on Google for a keyword that is only ever used by people who want your product or service and will pay money for it. This is what people call a "money keyword" - it's got high search volume, has high commercial intent, and the people looking for it have the means and the desire to purchase it immediately.

        These are very good keywords to rank for, and if that's what you're #1 on, then yes... you'll make money. A lot of money. It's a foregone conclusion.

        But there are a lot of high-volume keywords that have near-zero commercial intent. Or high-intent keywords that have near-zero search volume. Or keywords used by people who don't have (or won't spend) any money.

        Ranking #1 on Google for those doesn't mean squat.

        And there are a lot more of those than there are "money keywords," so if you're not paying very close attention to who your customer is and what he is looking for, then - in the words of a Nigerian associate, who put it so very eloquently - "you will be a dork and not make any money."

        It is not a numbers game. It is a relationship game. People buy from you when you have what they want to buy, not when you are #1 in Google for what they typed in the search box.

        So it shouldn't be hard to figure out which of those you're supposed to be targeting.
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        • Profile picture of the author carlos123
          Thanks for clarifying what you meant CDarklock. What iyou say does of course make total sense and is a given as far as I am concerned.

          What I meant is that if you have 100 hair dressers and they all aim to get a high ranking for buying keywords that are good (I'm not referring to cheap keywords that are useless)...there are still only 10 spots at the top any way which you look at it.

          And if they all aim to create great content...again there are only 10 spots.

          Use to be that one could get cheap backlinks and rise in the rankings artificially (as opposed to waiting on links to be given one naturally as people found your site and went all goo ga to link to it).

          But now that such cheap artificial means of getting backlinks are falling like dominoes it seems...what is a business web site to do? I mean to get backlinks, artificially wise?

          I guess that should have been my question from the get go in this thread.

          Is there a way to get backlinks easily (or at least more easily than slaving over great content) and artificially still available short of having to create great content and wait for somebody somewhere to recognize the greatness of one's site and link to it as a way of showing appreciation for the awesome content that one has created on it

          Carlos
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  • Profile picture of the author DeborahDera
    Originally Posted by carlos123 View Post

    I've been reading a bit lately about Google's latest attempt to weed out junk content created primarily to get backlinks and not as an end in itself.

    If the usual article directory, squidoo, hubpages, etc. ways of getting backlinks are not very effective anymore what is a mom and pop business website to do?

    In a finite world of only so many web sites at the top of the rankings for a given category or niche what are all the other web sites to do to get high ranking?

    If backlinks are becoming harder to get (at least in the usually accepted internet marketing ways) what are business websites to do?

    They can't really compete on content alone. I mean yeah, hairdressers (for example) could focus on adding good content to their sites but how much good content do you think a hairdresser could add to their sites? And given the fact that there many hairdressers in a given city how can they compete for the top ten spots in Google in such a way that other hairdressers are not going to do the same thing?

    In other words if everyone focuses on good content (not a bad thing for search engine users mind you), most web sites won't ever make it. There are only 10 spots at the top of each niche in the search results. Anything less than being in the top 10 is near worthless in my opinion.

    Just thinking out loud in case anyone wants to discuss the overall picture to all this.

    Carlos
    I think it is important to note that this doesn't mean you can't use those sites to submit content. It means you can't submit low quality articles to those sites. There is a HUGE difference.
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  • Profile picture of the author Nigel Greaves
    I think a 3 point strategy would help if they apply it.

    Create authority by generating good quality content that shows off their knowledge and expertise. Do it by writing articles for both online and offline publication. Then take that same content and create simple videos to submit to YouTube etc. We're not talking Spielberg here just showcases of their knowledge.

    Make sure that their url is on every piece of paper that leaves their hands. Get a rubber stamp and stamp even the back of envelopes and cheques (just get the message in front of eye balls, like selling it's a numbers game|).

    Get involved with local communities online and offline. People like buying goods and services from people they know, like and trust. If they post on forums they will get as well known as they will by attending local Chamber of Commerce meetings.

    The reality for most of these small businesses is that they don't need backlinks, they need paying customers. Small businesses are probably going to struggle to get high search engine rankings but they can plenty of people to their websites by getting their name out there where those paying customers go about their daily lives.

    Nigel
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    • Profile picture of the author carlos123
      Originally Posted by Nigel Greaves View Post

      I think a 3 point strategy would help if they apply it.

      Create authority by generating good quality content that shows off their knowledge and expertise. Do it by writing articles for both online and offline publication. Then take that same content and create simple videos to submit to YouTube etc. We're not talking Spielberg here just showcases of their knowledge.

      Make sure that their url is on every piece of paper that leaves their hands. Get a rubber stamp and stamp even the back of envelopes and cheques (just get the message in front of eye balls, like selling it's a numbers game|).

      Get involved with local communities online and offline. People like buying goods and services from people they know, like and trust. If they post on forums they will get as well known as they will by attending local Chamber of Commerce meetings.

      The reality for most of these small businesses is that they don't need backlinks, they need paying customers. Small businesses are probably going to struggle to get high search engine rankings but they can plenty of people to their websites by getting their name out there where those paying customers go about their daily lives.

      Nigel
      Well put Nigel! That's something to sink my teeth into and promote to local businesses.

      That they don't need to be numero uno in Google in their particular niche to have a successful web site.

      I like that!

      Carlos
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  • Profile picture of the author PabloVTB
    That is in fact true... I have websites generating an obscene amount of traffic daily without any Number 1 rankings. I'm ranking for a LOT of search terms though, that's the secret
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    • Profile picture of the author carlos123
      Originally Posted by PabloVTB View Post

      That is in fact true... I have websites generating an obscene amount of traffic daily without any Number 1 rankings. I'm ranking for a LOT of search terms though, that's the secret
      That's very interesting. It's just not something that...well...I would have thought possible without a high ranking.

      When you say ranking for a lot of search terms do you mean ranking highly for them or just ranking somewhere as in the third or fourth page of Google results for some search phrase?

      If you are ranking down that far how do you get your "obscene traffic"?

      Carlos
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