Your Email List: Do you use Double Opt In or Single Opt In?

13 years ago

I use a double opt in I believe and it works quite well. I suggest you try it.

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Jeff Henshaw

13 years ago

Horses for courses.

I always use confirmed (double) optin, as I don't want the hassle of spam complaints that take time to disprove.

If you are comfortable with single opt in and are prepared to answer any allegations of spam, then fine, use that system, it seems from the information posted on the Forum, that single optin gets the higher sign up rate.

Just my thoughts,
Jeff.

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MarketingVet09

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Jeff Henshaw

Horses for courses.

I always use confirmed (double) optin, as I don't want the hassle of spam complaints that take time to disprove.

If you are comfortable with single opt in and are prepared to answer any allegations of spam, then fine, use that system, it seems from the information posted on the Forum, that single optin gets the higher sign up rate.

Just my thoughts,
Jeff.

Hi Jeff, Question... Who do I have to disprove the spam complaints to? Aweber? Gmail / Yahoo? Law Enforcement?

And trust me, right now I am doing double opt in, and am 85% leaning to staying that way... Just like to gain knowledge and know all my options since this option actually is available. Aweber could easily just not allow the option, but I suppose they feel it will affect their bottom line... Sort of hypocrital on their part in itself, but thats besides the point

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BacklinkExcellence

13 years ago

single opt-in definitely has higher sign-up rates (with double a good bunch will either forget or never even click the confirmation button) but if you get a lot of spam complaints double opt-in is always safer.

Bottomline, I'd say it depends on what you're trying to do with your list. For example I'm currently building a list around a niche where I'll send them different kinds of CPA offers and those offers only allow to be promoted via email if the leads are double opt-in.

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MarketingVet09

13 years ago

Originally Posted by BacklinkExcellence

single opt-in definitely has higher sign-up rates (with double a good bunch will either forget or never even click the confirmation button) but if you get a lot of spam complaints double opt-in is always safer.

Bottomline, I'd say it depends on what you're trying to do with your list. For example I'm currently building a list around a niche where I'll send them different kinds of CPA offers and those offers only allow to be promoted via email if the leads are double opt-in.

Hey, thanks for your input. A quick question if you can: Are most CPA offers via email require double opt in? Because I will have cpa offers also

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MarketingVet09

13 years ago

hoping to get a little more opinion on this

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1 reply

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Nightengale

13 years ago

I use double opt-in.

Some people swear by single opt-in, but I want to KNOW that people want my info. Also, my incentive for opting in is a free, PHYSICAL audio CD. I'm currently using 1 Shopping Cart, but have integrated with AWeber for the initial sign-ups.

First, I ask them to just put their name and e-mail address (to get on the AWeber list). Then they have to confirm their request, which directs them to the 1SC checkout page where they have to input their full name and snail mail address to get the audio CD.

If they want the audio CD, they HAVE to confirm and HAVE to give me a valid shipping address.

Yes, it's more expensive than just delivering a PDF report. Even though it's free, people who are going through those initial steps and giving me their full, VALID info, are a lot higher quality leads than those who just opt in to every list known to man, collect a bunch of "special report" PDFs and then never read them and either unsubscribe from your list or just delete your e-mails. (I should know. I rarely unsubscribe from lists, but there comes a point when I just delete and don't read the majority of them. I'm a dead, unengaged lead on their list.)

Business is business and you always need to find ways to be more competitive. Sending a physical audio CD makes me stand out from the crowd, reinforces my message and strengthens the connection, making it more personal. They have something PHYSICAL in their hand and they get to hear my voice, which goes a long way in bridging the know/like/trust factor.

I DO think it depends on what you're doing, but generally speaking, I'd always prefer double opt-in. Yes, an alarming percentage won't confirm. But it's not about the size of the list. It's about the QUALITY of the list. If they don't want the info bad enough to confirm, or they're not engaged enough to confirm, then I don't want them on my list!

Since I'm offering a PHYSICAL freebie that costs me money, I have a right to complete, VALID contact information. But I've made it valuable and irresistible enough to get them to give it to me.

I have a membership-based business anyway and the first step to being a member is confirming your request. If you can't confirm, then God bless you and I wish you the best, but what I offer is for members only.

Michelle

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Nightengale

13 years ago

P.S. My sales funnel and marketing (autoresponder) messages are completely and strategically mapped out to support conversions.

I wouldn't advise offering a more costly freebie (like I am) unless your sales funnel and conversion process is clearly mapped out and in place. It's easy to focus on getting leads and building your list and not have your conversion process in place.

Make sure your conversion process is in place and keep track of your visitor to lead ratio and your lead to sales ratio.

If you don't, you might find yourself putting out a lot of time and money without the necessary return and then you'll end up broke and frustrated, thinking it doesn't work (when really, it was your back-end conversion process that wasn't properly in place).

Michelle

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Alexa Smith

Banned 13 years ago

I have, at the moment, eight main lists of which are five single opt-in and three confirmed opt-in.

It's unquestionable that you build a bigger list with single opt-in. (That's far from the only relevant factor here, of course!).

For me, it depends on the niche. For anything to do with internet marketing advice or making money online, I'd always use confirmed opt-in, myself. Nobody has yet convinced me that I'd need a confirmed opt-in list for a cauliflower soup recipes website, opt-in and email marketing business; and I don't think they're likely to, because for me the advantages of single opt-in far outweigh the disadvantages, in such niches.

I suspect that it depends on "what you're sending out" as well as on the niche, though. (I almost never get a "spam report".)

The longer I do this for, the more I instinctively feel that single opt-in is right for me, and I'm slightly regretting that three of my lists are (perhaps unnecessarily?) confirmed opt-in.

Just my perspective.

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FamilyAffairs

13 years ago

I agree with Nightengale and In my opinion double opt-in is the only way to go, especially if you’re giving away a free product. As much as I hate to say it some people are dishonest and will give you false email addresses and names just to get your freebies, which in turns hits us with spam complaints when sending out to our lists - because we neglected to do our due diligence with our lists.

With the double opt-in they literally have to confirm their email address through their email program in order to receive the freebies that we are so graciously providing to them for their correct info. Thus qualifying our lists and improving our customer base all the way around.

Not to mention that the site you have associated with your email list will also feel the wrath of you being blacklisted as a spammer and removed from the search directories. Yes your list will be smaller in the end, but a qualified list will make you more money for a whole lot longer.

Think of it this way, I can make more money with one email to my qualified double opt-in list of 100 people then you’re likely to make with a list of 500 single opt-ins and it has been proven over and over again.

So I ask you why chance your lively hood.

Give me 20 qualified people over 100 none qualified people any day.

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2 replies

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WillR

13 years ago

Originally Posted by FamilyAffairs

As much as I hate to say it some people are dishonest and will give you false email addresses and names just to get your freebies...

Aweber still makes suspicious email addresses double optin regardless if you are only running single optin on that list. In my experience majority of the false email addresses are weeded out by this process - I see it happening with my very own eyes.

Originally Posted by FamilyAffairs

Not to mention that the site you have associated with your email list will also feel the wrath of you being blacklisted as a spammer and removed from the search directories.

Where on earth do you get this information from? Single optin has been used for many many years now and is probably more widely used than double optin. You will find a lot of websites out of the IM industry do not ask for people to confirm their email addresses. You would have to be doing some pretty serious spam for this to be even remotely possible.

Originally Posted by FamilyAffairs

Give me 20 qualified people over 100 none qualified people any day.

Yes, that is true - marketing 101. But having someone double-optin does not necessarily mean they are more 'qualified'. The qualification starts when they enter their email address. There are lots of reasons why people will not click on the confirmation link. Not being interested enough is only a small piece of the pie. Besides, if this is the main reason, I would say that is because your offer and/or product is not strong enough.

Originally Posted by FamilyAffairs

Think of it this way, I can make more money with one email to my qualified double opt-in list of 100 people then you’re likely to make with a list of 500 single opt-ins and it has been proven over and over again.

So I ask you why chance your lively hood.

More here say? Or maybe you do have the proof to back up this statement? Mind sharing it with us all?

And I quote...

""Assumption is the mother of all f**k ups!"
- Steven Segal

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FamilyAffairs 13 years ago

I did say in my opinion and I do want to thank you WillR for catching the mistake I made down below.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FamilyAffairs
Not to mention that the site you have associated with your email list will also feel the wrath of you being blacklisted as a spammer and removed from the search directories.

Where on earth do you get this information from? Single optin has been used for many many years now and is probably more widely used than double optin. You will find a lot of websites out of the IM industry do not ask for people to confirm their email addresses. You would have to be doing some pretty serious spam for this to be even remotely possible.

Thank you for catching this; I miss spoke about the sites – I was meaning to say that it’s the ISP’s that the mails coming from can be black listed from the email directories.

I like the double opt-in because I get more responses per mailing with less bounce backs and if I get a spam complaint then I have a record that they accepted whereas the single opt-in there is no record.
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Alexa Smith

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by FamilyAffairs

Think of it this way, I can make more money with one email to my qualified double opt-in list of 100 people then you’re likely to make with a list of 500 single opt-ins and it has been proven over and over again.

How do you know?

My own results, comparing my single and my confirmed opt-in lists show me something very different indeed. But I'm talking about actual results and you're taking a wild guess at what "someone else is likely to make", so it's perhaps not too balanced a conversation, really? :confused:

One judges whom to believe and trust, here: Will, known to be a respected marketer and a regular, highly valued contributor to our discussions here, or Kevin, making his second post, in which he chooses to tell Will how much money, by comparison, Will's likely to make with a single opt-in list. "Choices, choices ..."

Originally Posted by FamilyAffairs

Give me 20 qualified people over 100 none qualified people any day.

You seem to be imagining that single opted-in people are "non-qualified" and those who've confirmed an opt-in are somehow "qualified". Oh well, must be something about the way you run (or ran?) your own business, I suppose. On my five single opt-in lists the people seem perfectly well qualified to me. But again, I'm talking about reality rather than assumptions about what other people do ... :rolleyes:

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MarketingVet09

13 years ago

Well... I'm a man all about pros and cons... Obviously, the pro of doing single opt in is the list will be bigger...

It seems to me, the only possible Con is spam complaints... Can someone tell me, who I have to prove / disprove spam complaints to? Who do I have to make the justification to that they actually signed up to my list?

Also, my site is an adult themed site (not porn, aweber dosent allow it).. Are the spam complaints likely to be higher? Something is telling me to do double opt in because of this, but first I'd need to understand who spam complaints have to be justified to and how big a hassle it is...

Perspective on this from Will or Alexa would be appreciated! (sometimes I haven't having options, because I look at every little thing and have trouble deciding).

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WillR

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Jusumax

It seems to me, the only possible Con is spam complaints... Can someone tell me, who I have to prove / disprove spam complaints to? Who do I have to make the justification to that they actually signed up to my list?

I've never actually had a problem with this. But it is my understanding that if using Aweber, they will let you know when your spam complaints are too high. I believe there is a certain percentage (number of spam complaints compared to total number of emails sent) that you can not go over and if you reach this level more than 2 or 3 times, Aweber will disable single optin on that list.

For those of you still unsure how this whole single optin process works with Aweber, here is some correspondence I had with Aweber a year or so ago. I don't believe things have changed since then...

"Though you have Confirmed Opt-in turned "off" for anyone who
fills out the webform on your website, there are some instances
in which Confirmation will still be required. We have taken
many steps to ensure that addresses are not added fraudulently
or maliciously to your list.

When a lead fills out your form there are a number of things
that are passed along "behind the scenes". One of these is called
a "referring URL", or the web address of the page where they
filled out your webform.

If that subscribers browser does not pass along that URL, a
Confirmation message will be automatically sent out, to ensure
that it is a valid subscriber, and not a "web-bot", script, or
other malicious subscription attempt.

If you click on a lead in your database that wasn't asked to
verify you will be able to find the referring URL where they
filled out the form. If that "add URL" field is blank, then it
was not passed on, and they were sent a Confirmation message.

Also there are some addresses that may always be
required to confirm.

If an email address at a major domain is submitted to
your list, and the "user" part of the email address
(the part before the @ symbol) is four characters or
fewer, that subscriber will need to confirm.

For example, the following addresses will always need to confirm:

* bob@aol.com
* test@hotmail.com
* jeff@yahoo.com
* asdf@gmail.com

In most cases, extremely short user names in the most popular domains
are either mistypes, blatantly bogus, or dead email addresses. All of
those can negatively affect your deliverability. So, in order to prevent
them from being fraudulently or maliciously subscribed to your list,
they will need to confirm."

There are also some other types of email addresses that will be asked to
confirm. I've seen addresses like this dfsfsgdhdhd@hotmail.com every now
and then and they will also be asked to confirm.

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Partner Guy 13 years ago

Go with single-opt in. Doing double opt-in will result in losing about 30% to 50% subscribers.
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- BenoitT 13 years ago
  
  Does anybody here use double opt-in when you offer free service instead of free bonus? For a free consultation, you can't get it with a fake e-mail.
  
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  Benoit Tremblay
  
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BenoitT 13 years ago

I don't double opt-in because I give away free consultations. Instead of not getting people that doesn't confirm, I e-mail them and turn them into customers. I offer premium services so I am lucky I don't need a 1 000 list to do $1000 this month.
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JayJee

13 years ago

Double opt in is the devil. I wouldn't use it anymore in my sites. Yes, I run the risks of people entering false details just to get at the content, but they are in my sales funnel now. If I forced them to check an email and confirm, I'd lose many people. Sometimes emails go missing, so they never come back.
My point of view is that when you have a hot lead, they're only hot for a short time, so why jeapodise that. They give you their valid email soon enough when they give me their credit card number.
That's my 10 cents worth on double opt-ins. Don't use em! You'll lose sales.
You guys have made some good points though. Good debate here. I guess it'll be one of those dividing topics amongst IM'ers. Are you a D.O. or a S.O.?

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MarketingVet09

13 years ago

Originally Posted by JayJee

Double opt in is the devil. I wouldn't use it anymore in my sites. Yes, I run the risks of people entering false details just to get at the content, but they are in my sales funnel now. If I forced them to check an email and confirm, I'd lose many people. Sometimes emails go missing, so they never come back.
My point of view is that when you have a hot lead, they're only hot for a short time, so why jeapodise that. They give you their valid email soon enough when they give me their credit card number.
That's my 10 cents worth on double opt-ins. Don't use em! You'll lose sales.
You guys have made some good points though. Good debate here. I guess it'll be one of those dividing topics amongst IM'ers. Are you a D.O. or a S.O.?

I've decided to go with single opt in... I mean, it only makes sense...

I know for a fact that I wont be spamming people, so in the end, if I KNOW I'm not doing anything wrong, what do I really have to worry about?

And losing 30% of sales is ridiculous... For a lot of companies, 30% sales could be their entire profit margin...

I'm going to go with single opt in now... Because while 4 people missing my info out of 17 makes me feel a little bad... I cant imagine how I'd feel once the number reach 500 out of 1700 or something like that.. At that point you are flushing money down the toilet.

Thanks for everyones input

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Nisip

Banned 13 years ago

you should do only single optin because double optin is very annoying for users...

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social saint

13 years ago

It depends on what you got to offer to decide on single or double opt-in. If you got something interesting and unique that people don't want to miss out, it is better to settle for double opt-in. Single opt-in otherwise.

I've used both and I base my decision upon - how I built the list and how I plan to monetize it.

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Paleochora

13 years ago

I agree with Nightengale and In my opinion double opt-in is the only way to go, especially if you’re giving away a free product. As much as I hate to say it some people are dishonest and will give you false email addresses and names just to get your freebies, which in turns hits us with spam complaints when sending out to our lists - because we neglected to do our due diligence with our lists.

@FamilyAffairs Please explain how you think this works.

Surely if you are giving away a free product and you have chosen to have only a single opt in, then you would explain that a link for the product/video/download will be e-mailed to them and they need to enter their email address so you can send it to them.

Only a complete retard would make up an e-mail address. What would be the gain?

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fated82

13 years ago

I am using single opt in and here is why

- People already show interest in your freebie, why do you still want them to confirm again? (people hate to do extra work)

- I have numerous email accounts and a particular email is meant to register for freebies. I don't read the follow up messages from that email account....My point is, even with double opt-in, people will still use their junk email account to request for your freebie, so why lose 20% - 30% subscribers just because you want 'quality folks'?

- The spam complains will happen if you SPAM them. The key is to send the right kind of message to right target audience.

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Your Email List: Do you use Double Opt In or Single Opt In?

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