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Another scam (kind of) on clickbank..interesting...

by GeorgR.
35 replies
Occasionally i am enjoying flight simulators like MS Flight Simulator. I am also pretty active on various related forums.

There is a product on clickbank

"Proflight Sim"..so i thought: WOW! That's great, a complete and good looking flight simulation clickbank.

ANYWAY....the truth is that this is taken from a free "Open Source" flight simulator

FlightGear Flight Simulator

which is FREE. The people who sell that "new" flight simulator on Clickbank took the open source and re-sell it (which is actually legal as far as i know since it is GPL/Open Source)...but its the same program which is available for free EXCEPT that they changed the name.

Another proof how many slick semi-scammers are on clickbank just in for the money, and they will do anything just to make a few bucks.
#clickbankinteresting #kind #scam
  • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
    George, it's not a scam. It's lazy marketing but it's perfectly legal. It would
    have been nice if they had added some bells and whistles to it to make it
    a little different and even better, but legally and ethically there is nothing
    wrong with what they did.

    And as others have already said, lots of stuff, especially IM related "how to"
    stuff, is available for free and yet still packaged into ebooks and sold.

    Sorry, but in this case, I really don't see the point of this thread other than
    maybe a lesson in lazy marketing.
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  • Profile picture of the author Bruce Wedding
    Is making products from public domain books a scam or lazy marketing?
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  • Profile picture of the author WilsonA
    Originally Posted by vapsjee View Post

    Illusionmage is also free, and probably the 3d magic pro or something.... the free version is called blender
    Yea I just saw that recently, I am not promoting it anymore. See this blender.org - Re-branding Blender (its what blender had to say about the product)

    I dont think cb is doing enough to control the products in their marketplace.
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  • Profile picture of the author Big Al
    There are a couple of products in the self-defence niche that include bonus products which are freely availble on Scribd etc. Older books that are probably now public domain.

    Not a scam here either either but I personally couldn't sell something that had my own mark, experience or research added to it.
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    • Profile picture of the author Sandra Martinez
      it is not illegal, but it is definitely taking advantage of the small print to make a profit out of other´s work...

      if they donated to the project, maybe, it could be seen as a marketing service. They would be applying their marketing skills to gain access to new markets
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  • Profile picture of the author Adie
    It might not be a "total scam" but it is surely a "total shame"
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    • Profile picture of the author peter gibson
      Originally Posted by Adie View Post

      It might not be a "total scam" but it is surely a "total shame"
      ^^^^this^^^
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    • Profile picture of the author Mohammad Afaq
      Originally Posted by Adie View Post

      It might not be a "total scam" but it is surely a "total shame"
      No it is not, there is nothing wrong with what this guy is doing.

      Not only is this perfectly legal under the GNU license: GNU General Public License v2.0 - GNU Project - Free Software Foundation (FSF) but the GNU license actually encourages people to charge for the open source software.

      Check this link: Selling Free Software - GNU Project - Free Software Foundation (FSF)

      Here's what the first paragraph says:

      Many people believe that the spirit of the GNU Project is that you should not charge money for distributing copies of software, or that you should charge as little as possible — just enough to cover the cost. This is a misunderstanding.

      Actually, we encourage people who redistribute free software to charge as much as they wish or can. If this seems surprising to you, please read on.
      So before jumping to conclusions, do your research.

      Some people might classify this as lazy marketing but I say this is smart marketing. Also this is not too different from PLR or public domain.
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      • Profile picture of the author Sandra Martinez
        Originally Posted by Mohammad Afaq View Post

        No it is not, there is nothing wrong with what this guy is doing.

        Not only is this perfectly legal under the GNU license: GNU General Public License v2.0 - GNU Project - Free Software Foundation (FSF) but the GNU license actually encourages people to charge for the open source software.

        Check this link: Selling Free Software - GNU Project - Free Software Foundation (FSF)

        Here's what the first paragraph says:



        So before jumping to conclusions, do your research.

        Some people might classify this as lazy marketing but I say this is smart marketing. Also this is not too different from PLR or public domain.
        there wouldn´t be a problem if the sellers of the product are the creators of the product.

        IF, and that is what it looks like, the sellers and the creators are different people someone is abusing the system.
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        • Profile picture of the author Alan Petersen
          High or low fees, and the GNU GPL

          Except for one special situation, the GNU General Public License (GNU GPL) has no requirements about how much you can charge for distributing a copy of free software. You can charge nothing, a penny, a dollar, or a billion dollars. It's up to you, and the marketplace, so don't complain to us if nobody wants to pay a billion dollars for a copy.


          The one exception is in the case where binaries are distributed without the corresponding complete source code. Those who do this are required by the GNU GPL to provide source code on subsequent request. Without a limit on the fee for the source code, they would be able set a fee too large for anyone to pay--such as a billion dollars--and thus pretend to release source code while in truth concealing it. So in this case we have to limit the fee for source in order to ensure the user's freedom. In ordinary situations, however, there is no such justification for limiting distribution fees, so we do not limit them.


          Sometimes companies whose activities cross the line stated in the GNU GPL plead for permission, saying that they "won't charge money for the GNU software" or such like. That won't get them anywhere with us. Free software is about freedom, and enforcing the GPL is defending freedom. When we defend users' freedom, we are not distracted by side issues such as how much of a distribution fee is charged. Freedom is the issue, the whole issue, and the only issue.
          There was debate about the commercialization of a popular WordPress theme sold as a WSO because they obfuscated the source code which appears is a violation of GNU terms. So as long as the GNU terms are not being violated and the source code is open there is nothing wrong with selling free software like in the examples in this thread.

          I don't know if these marketers are doing that or not but at face value it's not a scam or a shame.

          I sell information products that people can find the information for free but they don't have the time, the know how, or they just prefer to have it all broken down in easy steps like I provide.

          Adobe Captivate sells for $800 and the original source code started out as CamStudio which was/is open source.

          There is nothing scammy or shameful about that. So as long as those vendors are not violating the GNU terms they can sell it for $1,000 if they want.
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      • Profile picture of the author niffybranco
        Originally Posted by Mohammad Afaq View Post

        No it is not, there is nothing wrong with what this guy is doing.

        Not only is this perfectly legal under the GNU license: GNU General Public License v2.0 - GNU Project - Free Software Foundation (FSF) but the GNU license actually encourages people to charge for the open source software.

        Check this link: Selling Free Software - GNU Project - Free Software Foundation (FSF)

        Here's what the first paragraph says:



        So before jumping to conclusions, do your research.

        Some people might classify this as lazy marketing but I say this is smart marketing. Also this is not too different from PLR or public domain.
        Grrrr Mohammad you beat me to it . What would you say about downloading free plr and reselling is that a scam ? How about people who sell the bible ? When ibooks launched the number 1 selling book for a month or so was the Quran whic can be downloaded free online , was the guy selling it a scammer ?

        You need to go on ebay and see the hundreds of sellers flogging free stuff, from GIMP to Open Office are they scammers ? No it is perfectly legal and damn smart.

        Penguin books sells a lot of public domain books you can find free online are they scammers ?

        Lazy marketing you say , if I wanted hard work I would have gone into construction not sit at home tapping away at a keyboard all day .
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      • Profile picture of the author Adie
        Originally Posted by Mohammad Afaq View Post

        No it is not, there is nothing wrong with what this guy is doing.

        Not only is this perfectly legal under the GNU license: GNU General Public License v2.0 - GNU Project - Free Software Foundation (FSF) but the GNU license actually encourages people to charge for the open source software.

        Check this link: Selling Free Software - GNU Project - Free Software Foundation (FSF)

        Here's what the first paragraph says:



        So before jumping to conclusions, do your research.

        Some people might classify this as lazy marketing but I say this is smart marketing. Also this is not too different from PLR or public domain.
        I never said it is illegal.. What I'm trying to say is, it's unethical...It's like swindling. You already know its free so why sell it? Why don't tell people it's free instead of taking their money? It's swindling.
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        • Profile picture of the author niffybranco
          Originally Posted by Adie View Post

          I never said it is illegal.. What I'm trying to say is, it's unethical...It's like swindling. You already know its free so why sell it? Why don't tell people it's free instead of taking their money? It's swindling.
          Why do you insist on shooting yourself in the foot. in your signature the one that says 8,000 directory submissions , there is a link offering to charge for search engine submissions , that to me is the real scam, why don't you tell people they can easily get their site indexed for free , all they need is a signature like yours and a nice post on the warrior forum
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          • Profile picture of the author Sandra Martinez
            Originally Posted by niffybranco View Post

            Why do you insist on shooting yourself in the foot. in your signature the one that says 8,000 directory submissions , there is a link offering to charge for search engine submissions , that to me is the real scam, why don't you tell people they can easily get their site indexed for free , all they need is a signature like yours and a nice post on the warrior forum
            Don´t mean to get into other people´s kind interchange of constructive ideas... but, you do see the lil flaw in your reasoning, don´t you? he is offering a service, the other guys are offering a product they didn´t do or added value to.

            Anyway... IF they are intelligent, they should donate at least 20% of the earnings, which turns it into a win-win situation.
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            • Profile picture of the author niffybranco
              Originally Posted by Sandra Martinez View Post

              Don´t mean to get into other people´s kind interchange of constructive ideas... but, you do see the lil flaw in your reasoning, don´t you? he is offering a service, the other guys are offering a product they didn´t do or added value to.

              Anyway... IF they are intelligent, they should donate at least 20% of the earnings, which turns it into a win-win situation.
              Building backlinks is a service, charging people to submit their websites to search engines when it is most definitely going to get picked up for free is ........ call it what you want .


              The product has a GPL license if they did not add any value to it that is entirely up to them, but the licence permits the product to be resold by anybody as long as the license is passed on.

              The product works even if they did not create it. The creator of the product could have easily released his software under a different license thus making it illegal to resell .

              Loads of people make money selling products that they did not create, it's how I started making money online . You call it unethical I call it sweet .
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              • Profile picture of the author Sandra Martinez
                Originally Posted by niffybranco View Post

                Building backlinks is a service, charging people to submit their websites to search engines when it is most definitely going to get picked up for free is ........ call it what you want .


                The product has a GPL license if they did not add any value to it that is entirely up to them, but the licence permits the product to be resold by anybody as long as the license is passed on.

                The product works even if they did not create it. The creator of the product could have easily released his software under a different license thus making it illegal to resell .

                Loads of people make money selling products that they did not create, it's how I started making money online . You call it unethical I call it sweet .
                I understand. We have a crash of mindset, it happens all the time. Not a big deal.

                I´m not advocating for his service, don´t even know the guy. Actually I think he was terribly rude with me somewhere else. But at least he is doing something, IF he is doing something.

                So probably the deepest layer here is: is it ok to take advantage of other people´s work without adding value or not?

                half of the forum would say yes and the other half, no.

                this reminds me of this answer in another thread: http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...ml#post3518324

                would you say then this is sweet too?

                I´m not trying to pull your leg, just to get deeper in the concept.

                Sandra
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                • Profile picture of the author niffybranco
                  Originally Posted by Sandra Martinez View Post

                  I understand. We have a crash of mindset, it happens all the time. Not a big deal.

                  I´m not advocating for his service, don´t even know the guy. Actually I think he was terribly rude with me somewhere else. But at least he is doing something, IF he is doing something.

                  So probably the deepest layer here is: is it ok to take advantage of other people´s work without adding value or not?

                  half of the forum would say yes and the other half, no.

                  this reminds me of this answer in another thread: http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...ml#post3518324

                  would you say then this is sweet too?

                  I´m not trying to pull your leg, just to get deeper in the concept.

                  Sandra
                  There is a big difference in stealing ideas from someone who is helping you, and legally selling something that has a license that says you can legally sell it.

                  In the example you gave no permission was given to use the ideas generated even if it is legal to do so, as ideas cannot be copyrighted , that can be considered immoral not illegal.

                  On the other hand there is nothing wrong with taking and using a product that has a big red sticker attached to it saying you can use this software for whatever you want .

                  Thats my take , and I am not being hostile in anyway, i appreciate a healthy debate , it's all part of the learning process.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Sandra Martinez
                    Originally Posted by niffybranco View Post

                    There is a big difference in stealing ideas from someone who is helping you, and legally selling something that has a license that says you can legally sell it.

                    In the example you gave no permission was given to use the ideas generated even if it is legal to do so, as ideas cannot be copyrighted , that can be considered immoral not illegal.

                    On the other hand there is nothing wrong with taking and using a product that has a big red sticker attached to it saying you can use this software for whatever you want .

                    Thats my take , and I am not being hostile in anyway, i appreciate a healthy debate , it's all part of the learning process.
                    And where is exactly the difference?

                    in one case, someone is giving something for free for the good of everyone. And the license is usually there to allow others to contribute and grow the project. It is research from universities type of mentality. From people who believe in the good of all. Do you seriously think they are ok with it?

                    On the other case is a single person giving his time and knowledge to help other grow in his business. And the mechanism this person chooses to grow is to sell that information instead of using it. Why he is not ok with it? Where is the deception?

                    In both cases the intent was dishonored. What makes it easier in the case of open source there is not a face behind. But there is a lot of sleepless nights and effort from a lot of people nonetheless.
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          • Profile picture of the author Adie
            Originally Posted by niffybranco View Post

            Why do you insist on shooting yourself in the foot. in your signature the one that says 8,000 directory submissions , there is a link offering to charge for search engine submissions , that to me is the real scam, why don't you tell people they can easily get their site indexed for free , all they need is a signature like yours and a nice post on the warrior forum
            Offering service is totally different from selling other people's products. If ou consider it scam, then all products in wso are scam. your argument is pointless. Of course I can tell people to submit their sites to search engines for free but the question is, do they have the software to do that? You are taking this issue personally and I'm not impressed with your arrogance.

            And which looks more scammy?

            This one? You call it sales hype, I call it swindling....
            [ WSO ] How I Went From Zero To $30,000 A Month With Nothing But An Internet Connection And FREE CONTENT.

            Or this one?
            8,000+ Directory Submission

            The next time you insult someone, make sure you bring something on the table...


            Originally Posted by Chris Kent View Post

            Exactly. Everyone knows 8,000+ directory submission is useless, so 1995
            I have my personal reason why I am promoting adlandpro products and you don't care... I am not meddling with anyone's signature anyway....

            I appreciate the debate but other people are so childish to bring the topic into personal attack... I can put whatever I want on my signature as long at it conforms the forum rules and not causing any harm to other people...
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            • Profile picture of the author niffybranco
              Originally Posted by Adie View Post

              Offering service is totally different from selling other people's products. If ou consider it scam, then all products in wso are scam. your argument is pointless. Of course I can tell people to submit their sites to search engines for free but the question is, do they have the software to do that? You are taking this issue personally and I'm not impressed with your arrogance.

              And which looks more scammy?

              This one? You call it sales hype, I call it swindling....
              [ WSO ] How I Went From Zero To $30,000 A Month With Nothing But An Internet Connection And FREE CONTENT.

              Or this one?
              8,000+ Directory Submission

              The next time you insult someone, make sure you bring something on the table...


              I have my personal reason why I am promoting adlandpro products and you don't care... I am not meddling with anyone's signature anyway....

              I appreciate the debate but other people are so childish to bring the topic into personal attack... I can put whatever I want on my signature as long at it conforms the forum rules and not causing any harm to other people...
              I guess everything is a swindle to you, before you start pointing fingers you can read the reviews , if I was swindling anybody I'm sure a lot of the warriors that joined would have screamed scam.

              If search engine submission was such a great service why doesn't anyone dare offer it as a WSO ?

              I am not attacking you personally same way you are not attacking the people selling the product on clickbank.

              You came here and called a practise that is legally acceptable by law a scam and I am just stating that in my opinion and in the eyes of the law it is not.

              I did not mean to come across as arrogant and if i did that is unfortunate.
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              • Profile picture of the author Adie
                Originally Posted by niffybranco View Post

                I guess everything is a swindle to you, before you start pointing fingers you can read the reviews , if I was swindling anybody I'm sure a lot of the warriors that joined would have screamed scam.

                If search engine submission was such a great service why doesn't anyone dare offer it as a WSO ?

                I am not attacking you personally same way you are not attacking the people selling the product on clickbank.

                You came here and called a practise that is legally acceptable by law a scam and I am just stating that in my opinion and in the eyes of the law it is not.

                I did not mean to come across as arrogant and if i did that is unfortunate.
                Laugh at yourself. My signature has nothing to do with this topic and you brought it up? Pathetic too..

                If search engine submission was such a great service why doesn't anyone dare offer it as a WSO ?
                Huh! Are you saying that everything online that works should be pyut into WSO? tsk tsk, I can really believe I am talking to you..

                And I don't understand why all of the sudden, you pointed everything into my signature... read who brought it first.... I can't really believe... Whatever my beliefs towards that CB product is non of your business. Learn to respect other peoples opinion and if you think you can't, just remain silent if it is not causing you harm...

                ..and last but not the least, it's a great deal of shame offering someone to earn $30k/month when even your self is struggling to sell a guide to make some pennies....

                and now I know why you are dying to argue and favor this thing....

                Learn How I Make $30,000 A Month By legally Stealing Thousands Of High Quality Books, images, Photos, Videos And Audio, And Selling Them For Thousands Of Dollars Without Ever Having To Pay Royalty Or Licensing Fees!
                No questions asked.. now you can say what you want... I am leaving this thread after learning the above headline...LMAO.. the very first time I heard stealing is legal.... mouth zipped!
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                • Profile picture of the author niffybranco
                  Originally Posted by Adie View Post

                  Laugh at yourself. My signature has nothing to do with this topic and you brought it up? Pathetic too..

                  Huh! Are you saying that everything online that works should be pyut into WSO? tsk tsk, I can really believe I am talking to you..

                  And I don't understand why all of the sudden, you pointed everything into my signature... read who brought it first.... I can't really believe... Whatever my beliefs towards that CB product is non of your business. Learn to respect other peoples opinion and if you think you can't, just remain silent if it is not causing you harm...

                  ..and last but not the least, it's a great deal of shame offering someone to earn $30k/month when even your self is struggling to sell a guide to make some pennies....

                  and now I know why you are dying to argue and favor this thing....

                  No questions asked.. now you can say what you want... I am leaving this thread after learning the above headline...LMAO.. the very first time I heard stealing is legal.... mouth zipped!

                  If you bothered to read the whole thread you will find out it is a perfectly legit method, also selling a WSO for me has nothing to do with the money I make from it, although it is a bonus , the real worth is the list of paid subscribers I am able to build and keep happy by delivering value to them.
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            • Profile picture of the author Black Hat Cat
              Banned
              Originally Posted by Adie View Post

              Offering service is totally different from selling other people's products.
              It's a difference without a distinction. The only reason you see it differently is because it's your service, lol.
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        • Profile picture of the author Jeremy Gatica
          Originally Posted by Adie View Post

          I never said it is illegal.. What I'm trying to say is, it's unethical...It's like swindling. You already know its free so why sell it? Why don't tell people it's free instead of taking their money? It's swindling.
          Water is also free but people buy bottled water.

          Virtualy everything you want to know can be found freely, but at what expense? For me it's time and time is money. I would rather pay for information/software etc.. if it offers what I want at the time, then to spend hours searching for what I need.

          I'm off to grab some opensource plr...
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          • Profile picture of the author Alan Petersen
            Originally Posted by Jeremy Gatica View Post

            Water is also free but people buy bottled water.

            Virtualy everything you want to know can be found freely, but at what expense? For me it's time and time is money. I would rather pay for information/software etc.. if it offers what I want at the time, then to spend hours searching for what I need.

            I'm off to grab some opensource plr...
            What? I can drink the water from my tap! Those bottle water companies have been scamming me!
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      • Profile picture of the author InternetSuccess001
        The GNU license was intended to help encourage development. And -- if someone does sell a version of it -- to make a significant contribution to the project and make it 'better'. Taking 30 seconds, and slapping your own name on it, then reselling it, and hiding or making it difficult to find the original credit is not.

        These guys are like thieves/con men.

        Originally Posted by Mohammad Afaq View Post

        No it is not, there is nothing wrong with what this guy is doing.

        Not only is this perfectly legal under the GNU license: GNU General Public License v2.0 - GNU Project - Free Software Foundation (FSF) but the GNU license actually encourages people to charge for the open source software.

        Check this link: Selling Free Software - GNU Project - Free Software Foundation (FSF)

        Here's what the first paragraph says:



        So before jumping to conclusions, do your research.

        Some people might classify this as lazy marketing but I say this is smart marketing. Also this is not too different from PLR or public domain.
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  • Profile picture of the author Nigel Greaves
    I agree that this isn't a scam but it's certainly something that would peeve a lot of buyers if they found out the truth.

    Before marketing anything I always find it helps to consider how I would feel if I bought that product. If I can't say I'd be happy and satisfied I avoid it like the plague. Maybe I'm old fashioned and leaving a lot of money on the table but at least I can sleep at night.

    Nigel
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  • Profile picture of the author Aarron
    In legal terms it's not a scam as suchbut in ethical terms hmmmm maybe, like one of the warriors said earlier, it's pure lazy marketing unfortunately.
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  • Profile picture of the author InternetSuccess001
    George -- you should let clickbank know about that. Stealing someone elses work then reselling it as your own is wrong.

    John

    Originally Posted by GeorgR. View Post

    Occasionally i am enjoying flight simulators like MS Flight Simulator. I am also pretty active on various related forums.

    There is a product on clickbank

    "Proflight Sim"..so i thought: WOW! That's great, a complete and good looking flight simulation clickbank.

    ANYWAY....the truth is that this is taken from a free "Open Source" flight simulator

    FlightGear Flight Simulator

    which is FREE. The people who sell that "new" flight simulator on Clickbank took the open source and re-sell it (which is actually legal as far as i know since it is GPL/Open Source)...but its the same program which is available for free EXCEPT that they changed the name.

    Another proof how many slick semi-scammers are on clickbank just in for the money, and they will do anything just to make a few bucks.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dwight Anthony
    Just more proof that you can sell almost anything on CB and it's almost a free for all. Imagine buying this product and finding the open source version after the refund period is up. I would imagine the buyers would feel very put off as well as possibly report the original seller. If you are going to see something, at least put your own spin on it - enough to make it a bit more unique
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  • Profile picture of the author GeorgR.
    Uhm..note that i said "scam (kind of)" and "semi-scam", being aware that i cannot simply use the word scam. It's clear he doesn't do anything illegal, and NO he doesn't steal either. But this for sure doesn't make it "ethical".

    From a customer perspective..i would be VERY ****ed buying this just to find out its a freely available software.

    (And no, i am not all innocent...i once sold a "photoshop alternative" which was GIMP...which is also GPL. Long time ago )
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  • Profile picture of the author shuvo
    Thats really interesting.I just cant imagine why platform like clickbank allow those products in their network.
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  • Profile picture of the author raceway
    People always pay other people to find out information on where to get stuff for free, we all pay to get educated. I had no idea these types of games existed until this post, might have to give the free version a shot.
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