I don't understand the guru / WSO thing

13 years ago

It is a complete myth that successful IM hide their secret how they succeed. In fact, they are more than happy to share them. However, it is completly true that many IM teach but never made money outside of IM niche.

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Benoit Tremblay

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Terri LC

13 years ago

Hello to a fellow Canadian.......

Ya, you're out to lunch (j/k) Warriors sell knowledge to those who need it. They are filling the IM need-to-know niche.

There are so many biz models and niches out there, that they don't feel threatened whatsoever.....many also sell services, coaching, etc.

I'm a War Room Member, and I can assure you that Warriors give back in so many ways.

I don't mind sharing strategies that are working for me and I am considering making some of that knowledge for sale to the new marketers that are constantly joining WF.

I also like that you can ask questions and get answers on the general forum, but if enough newbies are asking the same question, some see an opportunity to package a product that answers those questions.

Cheers,
TLC

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Chri5123

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Canuckystan

Ok, starting with the general rule, "those who can't...teach."

If a person has a wickedly good IM method or process he or she should be making big money with it, correct?

But if this person sells the method, then he or she calculates there is more money in selling the system than applying the system in real life.

If there is more money selling the system than applying it, doesn't that say something? And don't tell me they want to "help" people, that's BS.

I know successful people outside of IM and they are very quiet about the processes they use for financial success, they have no interest in sharing and increasing their competition. They don't talk about the money they make or assets they have with strangers. They drive average cars but are worth small fortunes.

Over the years I've looked at various things but never purchased any sort of program or package as nothing passed the smell test for me.

Am I out to lunch here?

No, I see your point ^

However I think i can answer this.

If I have a system that is working and can make money helping/telling people how to use the system I will.

The truth is (sadly) that 90% of the people will not put in the required effort.

For example:

I am currently reading "Wake up and change your life" by Duncan Bannatyne.

Although I am not doing too badly I love these books as I pick up tips and believe if you surround yourself with successful people you will have success.

Anyway it is pretty much a step by step on how to set up a business just like he did from scratch.

We know that he is rich right?

Then why does he sell a guide giving away all his secrets?

Because there ARE no secrets!!!

Just hard work, following through, failing, trying again, succeeding and so the cycle continues...

All that said it is the human condition to be in love with the dream!

Just my 2 pence.

Chris

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jeff7117

13 years ago

I have often wondered the same thing. But, if they are already successful, and have a successful plan for making money, then why not turn that into another stream of revenue.

Someone mentioned (don't remember where) that the actual follow through on most programs is less than 5-7% anyway. And, almost every system I have seen has shown just enough to get you hooked without giving away "everything."

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cringwall

13 years ago

I think the poster has a point. "My system that makes crazy newbie cash with NO effort - DOPE VIDEO PROOF" - When I see those, I'm skeptical.

The bad thing about these kinds of offers is that they do seem to sell, based on the number of views you see in the WSO section. The fact is, everyone is looking for a shortcut to either get rich, thin or happy.

I don't make income claims of any kind in any of my offers. I mainly sell tools, not systems - and I certainly don't claim to be any kind of Guru. You can provide value to the IM community without selling anything that resembles snake oil.

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Chri5123

13 years ago

Originally Posted by cringwall

I think the poster has a point. "My system that makes crazy newbie cash with NO effort - DOPE VIDEO PROOF" - When I see those, I'm skeptical.

The bad thing about these kinds of offers is that they do seem to sell, based on the number of views you see in the WSO section. The fact is, everyone is looking for a shortcut to either get rich, thin or happy.

I don't make income claims of any kind in any of my offers. I mainly sell tools, not systems - and I certainly don't claim to be any kind of Guru. You can provide value to the IM community without selling anything that resembles snake oil.

I agree with you - however I DO provide proof as MUCH as I can!

There are too many "offers" that are not tested out there and since I use most of the techniques that I sell what good are they without real proof they work?

What I don't do however is say that you can have the same level of success with no work.

Chris

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Ron Douglas

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Canuckystan

If a person has a wickedly good IM method or process he or she should be making big money with it, correct?

It's a complete myth that the IM method or process is what makes you big money. I can give you my best process, but that won't make you money.

Providing value, making great offers, and giving people what they want to buy is what really makes big money. The process doesn't work until you figure out how to do that.

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Ron Douglas, MBA, CFA, NY Times Best Selling Author, Making Money Online Since 2001

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BloggingPro

13 years ago

The WSO section is simply a Marketplace for internet marketing products.

Stop looking at HOW the products are being marketed and looking at WHAT they really are.

Just about everything in the WSO section is what most would refer to as "reference material."

For example three months ago I bought an ebook on how to create a Google News website. This was something I've been wanting to do for awhile, but I had no clue where to start.

I used the search function on this forum and found varying results. Finally I saw a product in the WSO section and I took the plunge. Why? Because I needed to learn how to build one of these bad boys from the ground up.

I took a leap of faith in thinking that the person who wrote the ebook actually had built a Google news site and it was successfully included. I just sent my first site off for inclusion, so we'll see how it turns out.

Bottom line, is that the ebook was extremely valuable and I learned a lot from it. Why? Because its reference material.

When you go and buy a book on running your own t-shirt printing business, do you wonder to yourself if the person who wrote it is a successful t-shirt printing business owner?

Or do you try and get as much knowledge you possibly can out of it. It's important that everything in life works in theory--nobody said real world application works out that way. Those promising "push-button" profits or "hundreds in hours" are a perfect example of that.

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James Basher

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Canuckystan

Ok, starting with the general rule, "those who can't...teach."

have you done any kind of sports before?

Alex Ferguson, one of the most successful football(soccer) managers in history with countless league titles and championships,never played the sport at a high level.

Same goes for Jose Mourinho and countless others.On the other hand many world class athletes couldn't cut it as coaches or managers.

Same reason you dont need to be in the restaurant business to teach them how to make money.many times restaurants fail because they concentrate on the food and not the business.and i have never run a restaurant in my life but i can coach any restaurant to substantially increase their revenue.

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tpw

13 years ago

Those who can do, might be able to teach to others what they do...

Those who can't do, often pretend that they can, so they can make money, er... um... teach others how to be successful...

As a buyer, you must be able to discern who is who...

The fact that I can teach is secondary to what I have learned through experience...

Take it or leave it...

Perhaps I can show you how to be more productive... If I cannot, you should not spend your money with me...

As a writer, I have been teaching people for more than a decade... Your question should not be whether I should want to hide what I know, but whether I am competent to teach those things I offer to teach...

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Bill Platt, Oklahoma USA, PlattPublishing.com
Publish Coloring Books for Profit (WSOTD 7-30-2015)

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Alex Sol

13 years ago

It would be hard to agree with your

don't tell me they want to "help" people, that's BS.

.

Many marketers do genuinely help others and many do it for free. WAR ROOM is one example, a lot of amazing information and software completely free. Things that I think should cost money! Or Glen's ViperChill blog - it's very helpful and free.

Sure, many products in the WSO section are not as good as they seem to be in the sales letter - that's just the way of marketing things for some people. And of course when you see: "Work for 2 hours and make $789,203.76" report sold - stay away from it.

At some point I bought an ebook on how to make money with Clickbank. After reading that e-book I started making money online. The guide contained all I needed to know in one place and it was worth the money. Yes, there are thousands of people who use the same exact strategy to make money but there are also hundreds of millions of potential clients - enough room for everyone to make some cash.

Just my $0.02

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Alex Sol, Full time online marketer since 2007
The Extra Paycheck Blog | Extra Paycheck Podcast

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Canuckystan

13 years ago

The sports analogy does not work at all. Playing well has nothing to do with managing well. Managing means identifying talent and more importantly, selecting players who play well together (maybe not the best players), strategizing, analyzing figures, psychology, etc. I'd guess the best talent scouts weren't top players either.

Ebooks and such on technical topics are fine. I'm talking about people who boast big profits (tens of thousands a month) and charge big bucks for their system. I just can't buy it (figuratively and literally). If you can make tens of thousands a month, then do it, multiply it and you should be doing $100k per month, and too busy to be pushing a IM secret marketing program.

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Alex Sol

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Canuckystan

...

Ebooks and such on technical topics are fine. I'm talking about people who boast big profits (tens of thousands a month) and charge big bucks for their system. I just can't buy it (figuratively and literally). If you can make tens of thousands a month, then do it, multiply it and you should be doing $100k per month, and too busy to be pushing a IM secret marketing program.

Well, diversifying is another thing. Why not?
If the information/strategy you want to sell will in fact sell and make you extra money without hurting your business (creating too much competition) why not? Especially if you are selling a recurring membership of some sort.

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Alex Sol, Full time online marketer since 2007
The Extra Paycheck Blog | Extra Paycheck Podcast

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Tsnyder

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Canuckystan

The sports analogy does not work at all. Playing well has nothing to do with managing well. Managing means identifying talent and more importantly, selecting players who play well together (maybe not the best players), strategizing, analyzing figures, psychology, etc. I'd guess the best talent scouts weren't top players either.

Ebooks and such on technical topics are fine. I'm talking about people who boast big profits (tens of thousands a month) and charge big bucks for their system. I just can't buy it (figuratively and literally). If you can make tens of thousands a month, then do it, multiply it and you should be doing $100k per month, and too busy to be pushing a IM secret marketing program.

So, you're saying that if you were earning $30K per month
you'd pass the opportunity to do a well executed launch that
could easily bring you more than a million in sales in 24-48
hours?

I don't believe you.

Tsnyder

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Dave Rodman Banned 13 years ago

I think there are a few reasons:

1) The most lame answer is "I want to help people". It's also the most disingenuous. Kinda like when insurance agents say "I love helping people protect their families". Really, they like the commissions. Having said all that, I'm sure it DOES come into play, but it's just an added bonus.

2) I think a big part of it is that people are really into Internet Marketing, so they take that passion and start a business here. You see it all the time, so many WF members buy tons of products, read tons of books, and love marketing.

3) I think the biggest reason is this. Despite what people say about "The REAL money is in the NON-IM niches", I think that's kind of a bunch of hogwash. I know several people that did REALLY well outside of IM and then made the transition to teaching IM. And it's just a lot easier, plus there is more money.
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tpw

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Canuckystan

Ebooks and such on technical topics are fine. I'm talking about people who boast big profits (tens of thousands a month) and charge big bucks for their system. I just can't buy it (figuratively and literally). If you can make tens of thousands a month, then do it, multiply it and you should be doing $100k per month, and too busy to be pushing a IM secret marketing program.

Then don't buy it.

But consider this. I can create a product in one week, from idea conception, to written product, to sales page and product delivery systems.

Once the product is created, then I can toss some advertising dollars at it every now and again, to create new sales.

But to multiply a system from $30k per month to $100k per month will require three times the work.

Why not instead create a product that can add tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars per year to my earnings, with only the initial prep work to create the product.

Then I can continue to work my system "on my schedule" and bring in my $30k per month, and I can add to my earnings selling a product that I took a week out of my life to create.

I am not so keen on working 120 hours a week to make $100k per month. I would rather maintain my 40 hour a week schedule, and find additional methods to increase my income without increasing my workload by too much...

p.s. Keep in mind that I am using your numbers in my analogy. I am not making $30k per month.

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Bill Platt, Oklahoma USA, PlattPublishing.com
Publish Coloring Books for Profit (WSOTD 7-30-2015)

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Dexx

13 years ago

One side of the coin that you are missing:

That there is so much opportunity that there's no concern ABOUT saturation.

i.e. If someone creates a course on how to get top rankings for a keyword...well...there's a lot of keywords in existance that various customers could be targetting.

Sure, there's a chance that some of the customers may end up competing for the same keyword...but that doesn't stop them from chasing a DIFFERENT keyword and using the same strategy etc.

Now if someone created a course on "How to get Top Google rankings for the Keyword 'Warrior Forum WSO Guru'..." then there'd be a problem.

~Dexx

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Prady N

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Canuckystan

Ok, starting with the general rule, "those who can't...teach."

If a person has a wickedly good IM method or process he or she should be making big money with it, correct?

But if this person sells the method, then he or she calculates there is more money in selling the system than applying the system in real life.

If there is more money selling the system than applying it, doesn't that say something? And don't tell me they want to "help" people, that's BS.

I know successful people outside of IM and they are very quiet about the processes they use for financial success, they have no interest in sharing and increasing their competition. They don't talk about the money they make or assets they have with strangers. They drive average cars but are worth small fortunes.

Over the years I've looked at various things but never purchased any sort of program or package as nothing passed the smell test for me.

Am I out to lunch here?

You can see here many WSO's like "I have made $500 in 2 days". If they share that system for $7 & sold 200 copies they are making more money than system + Opt ins (Lifetime customer value of those optins) + If report is good they build their brand name = more $$$
there is no harm in sharing your method as market is so big with virtually no saturation.
Successful people you see might be from offline businesses & they have geographic limitations that is the reason they are afraid of sharing knowledge but in online business world is your market.
If you buy some good products from good marketers..you will change your opinion

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Casper C

13 years ago

Stan, you've hit the nail on the head. I think about this sometimes when I'm on the forum.

I'm wanting to break into the IM niche myself, and I see WSOs as a way of starting off, rather than making a main income stream. Perhaps some of the people selling WSOs ARE making great money elsewhere, but are just building a list for the IM niche so that they can build upon it. That's what I want to do. But, I believe there are people selling WSOs that aren't making money with what they're selling!

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theory expert

Banned 13 years ago

OP I agree with your point up to a certain extent largely because I dont see people who are successful in traditional businesses frantically caring to share their method. A guy wanted me to review his WSO, and, I gave him a laundry list of things he would need to prove to me for me to even consider.

I personally would rather have a list of companies,tools, and, people to outsource to that can do the job of whatever I am trying to get done. Don't tell me to go to odesk, elance, fivver,etc without a name of a specific contact who can do the task. This is the reason people fail. Where is the specifics? Anybody, can spit off general info. Selling information is more profitable or easier than doing in most cases. Buy books on how to sell WSO and bingo your in the club.

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I don't understand the guru / WSO thing

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