Being Kind To Newbies

13 years ago

I couldnt agree more with your post. Although i am new to the forum but not to internet marketing, i have seen some instances that you speak of and im glad someone was brave enough to post this!

Cheers!

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RhondaG 13 years ago

Thanks for your support. I am not new to IM, just new to this forum. However the forum is great! I expect to learn a lot more here.
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Gavin Stephenson

13 years ago

-- I believe people are rude because they are feed up of the same questions that can be easily be found doing a goggle search.

On the other hand MAN UP if you want something bad enough rude comments will not effect one bit

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JCamp

13 years ago

Even if the answers can be found outside of this forum, whats wrong with asking experienced ppl questions that are often asked??

I understand it gets old hearing the same questions over and over again but this is what ppl are here for to learn from others....

IMO dont be rude, therefore dont answer, let someone else take on the job of answering a newbie question lol

I get where your coming from Gavin btw checked out your WSO, good quality info!

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Gavin Stephenson

13 years ago

I here that too, but I see why people are rude. It takes 2 seconds to do a WF search.

or go to the success stories section of the forum organise by the highest view thread or most replies and your bound to find THE BEST INFO on here
:
Mind Warriors - Success, Power, Self-Improvement

Originally Posted by JCamp

Even if the answers can be found outside of this forum, whats wrong with asking experienced ppl questions that are often asked??

I understand it gets old hearing the same questions over and over again but this is what ppl are here for to learn from others....

IMO dont be rude, therefore dont answer, let someone else take on the job of answering a newbie question lol

I get where your coming from Gavin btw checked out your WSO, good quality info!

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Ben Armstrong

13 years ago

Originally Posted by GavinStephenson

I here that too, but I see why people are rude. It takes 2 seconds to do a WF search.

or go to the success stories section of the forum organise by the highest view thread or most replies and your bound to find THE BEST INFO on here
:
Mind Warriors - Success, Power, Self-Improvement

You're forgetting that maybe some of them are new to forums too. Sure they could do a search if they knew how.

Why not assume that they don't and politely point them in the right direction instead of being rude straight off the bat?

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RhondaG 13 years ago

I like the idea of spending time with like minded people. Brainstorming is always good, but Ben had a good point too.

I feel that if we just answer a couple of questions a week, between all of us we can help those that need it. Heck, I need help a lot myself, lol

Thanks to everyone who has commented!
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Darrell Hagan 13 years ago

I try to help whenever I can and it really does make me feel good. When seeking help myself, I first try searching within the forum before asking about a topic which may have been covered many times already. But I certainly do much appreciate the knowledge & patience of those who are willing to help and I try to do the same.
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RyanHaus

13 years ago

I found that persistence always leads you to better knowledge. Every newbie NEEDS to ask questions in order to progress. Their may be some people that feel like being rude, but IMO, who cares?

Every question answered leads to a more refined question. The more refined questions answered leads to a better understanding of this business until one day, you yourself are answering newbie questions. You are all of a sudden that much more educated about this just because you asked questions in the first place and learned that way.

I've never been affected by someone who needs to be rude. I have found that most in this forum are happy to help you.

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Gavin Stephenson

13 years ago

This is what i ment previously, MAN UP!! Get thicker skin, If you want it bad enough ignore it keep asking. Focus on what you want and not whats happening too you!

If you always focus on whats happening externally you wont get anywhere fast. Someone being rude is nothing.

I have had racist comments and all.. It never stopped me. Life is inside you not outside you!

Originally Posted by RyanHaus

I found that persistence always leads you to better knowledge. Every newbie NEEDS to ask questions in order to progress. Their may be some people that feel like being rude, but IMO, who cares?

Every question answered leads to a more refined question. The more refined questions answered leads to a better understanding of this business until one day, you yourself are answering newbie questions. You are all of a sudden that much more educated about this just because you asked questions in the first place and learned that way.

I've never been affected by someone who needs to be rude. I have found that most in this forum are happy to help you.

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Rach72

13 years ago

Originally Posted by GavinStephenson

-- I believe people are rude because they are feed up of the same questions that can be easily be found doing a goggle search.

On the other hand MAN UP if you want something bad enough rude comments will not effect one bit

Everyone wants to be Simon Cowell....:rolleyes:

Its also a great way for newbies to weed out who the good guys are and who are the people that they won't want to deal with in the future

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authorfriendly

13 years ago

Originally Posted by GavinStephenson

-- I believe people are rude because they are feed up of the same questions that can be easily be found doing a goggle search.

On the other hand MAN UP if you want something bad enough rude comments will not effect one bit

When I was looking for guidance on how to make and sell an ebook, I did a google search and could only find useless information or a couple sites promoting thier own ebook compiler. I asked here and got a few suggestions, at least one of which was fairly helpful. I was a little disappointed that there was not a thread on the topic, here or if there was one, nobody responded with it.

At any rate, the answers here were much more helpful than Panda-google, but less helpful than I would have hoped. But then I have seen so many good posts here, and suspect that real help on topics is in the threads I have not found, rather than for newbies like me.

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Gavin Stephenson

13 years ago

I just googled how to sell an ebook and there where plenty of articles even videos showing you how and what too do. I saw videos so I thought I should check out youtube 3,080 results.

I even found products for sale for pennies which will give you more help.

It only takes a seconds to do it. It's quicker just than asking and waiting for replies.

Originally Posted by authorfriendly

When I was looking for guidance on how to make and sell an ebook, I did a google search and could only find useless information or a couple sites promoting thier own ebook compiler. I asked here and got a few suggestions, at least one of which was fairly helpful. I was a little disappointed that there was not a thread on the topic, here or if there was one, nobody responded with it.

At any rate, the answers here were much more helpful than Panda-google, but less helpful than I would have hoped. But then I have seen so many good posts here, and suspect that real help on topics is in the threads I have not found, rather than for newbies like me.

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Kay King 13 years ago

If warriors are tired of answering the same questions and feel like it is taking too much of their time........then why are they answering.

If a new marketer posts a question and a dozen other new marketers answer the question...what if all the answers are incorrect? That happens quite often - and sometimes you go in with a proper answer and point out the errors.

You don't do this for the person who asked a same-old question - or for those who answered without knowing the answer. You do it for those diligent new members who are reading and learning so they know not to take the bad advice.

Honestly, the best lesson some newbies have in IM is getting called out here when they go over the top with questions and complaints. Those who can't stand it when someone disagrees with their opinion won't get far in any business.

kay
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- sidharthbanyal 13 years ago
  
  I think people are sometime annoyed with same questions. But we should not take it seriously and focus on what we have to learn. Even if they are rude they are still willing to help
  
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gold99

13 years ago

Originally Posted by GavinStephenson

-- I believe people are rude because they are feed up of the same questions that can be easily be found doing a goggle search.

On the other hand MAN UP if you want something bad enough rude comments will not effect one bit

I am a newbie in IM and I totally agreed, when one were desperate nothing will get in the way.

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iamsuneel

13 years ago

Newbies are well aware that this forum is populated by IMers who have number of years of experience. Its encouraging to be kind to a newbie, if he/she asks a knowledgeable question, which many IMers around here are willing to answer. But many newbies have to consider that this forum had been around for so many years that there are not many questions which are left out unanswered.

They should spend a few hours exploring the forum and it's archives and blogs to understand what IM is in the first place. It's not that everyone can jump into the bandwagon just because some guy told that selling digital goods is easy.

I try to be as soft as possible to the newbies. Dont want to hurt them and scare them away from a reputable forum like this.

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Henry White

13 years ago

Originally Posted by iamsuneel

Newbies are well aware that this forum is populated by IMers who have number of years of experience. Its encouraging to be kind to a newbie, if he/she asks a knowledgeable question, which many IMers around here are willing to answer. But many newbies have to consider that this forum had been around for so many years that there are not many questions which are left out unanswered. They should spend a few hours exploring the forum and it's archives and blogs to understand what IM is in the first place. It's not that everyone can jump into the bandwagon just because some guy told that selling digital goods is easy. I try to be as soft as possible to the newbies. Dont want to hurt them and scare them away from a reputable forum like this.

That's the theory, but the reality is that a searchable archive is grossly overrated - it's main usefulness is for a broad background and stumbling across those gems that stimulate thinking outside the box. It's far better for all concerned to treduce them to FAQ or even a categorized series of FAQ. Frankly, I don't buy into the premise that anyone has been rude or contemptuous toward newbies. (About the closest "evidence" I've seen was a few old-timers commenting that the thread was old - implying it was somehow no longer valid for newbies who discovered it in the archives to add their comments and bring up old business (not outdated WSO). Duh! If you don't have the patience for "stupid, repetitive questions," simply don't read them and you won't be tempted to vent. There are plenty of others who can, and once they get tired of it, plenty of others to take their place. This is one instance where cut-and-paste is highly appropriate.

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Paul Myers

13 years ago

Frankly, I don't buy into the premise that anyone has been rude or contemptuous toward newbies.

It happens occasionally, but it's pretty unusual. We have a few recurring trolls who get blasted when they're spotted, and that can look like newbie-bashing if you don't know what's going on. For the most part, the instances people describe as rudeness are just differences of style.

The main exception: Someone new comes in and starts making demands of the members. An entitlement approach here, deliberate or not, will get you on the end of a virtual flamethrower in no time at all.

The next most common is the person who comes in with "I have nothing to offer. Which of you alleged geniuses is willing to prove you're for real by 'mentoring' me until I make it big? I'll give you a testimonial, and maybe 10% of what I make."

Whack!

We don't discourage sharp responses in those cases.

Paul

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KenThompson

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

The main exception: Someone new comes in and starts making demands of the members. An entitlement approach here, deliberate or not, will get you on the end of a virtual flamethrower in no time at all.

Paul

I still feel just a little bad about morphing into a virtual flamethrower with
this one young woman years ago in the copywriting forum. She asked her
question and said, "I'm expecting someone to answer."

I did.

Ken

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Michael Mayo

13 years ago

Originally Posted by KenThompson

I still feel just a little bad about morphing into a virtual flamethrower with
this one young woman years ago in the copywriting forum. She asked her
question and said, "I'm expecting someone to answer."

I did.

Ken

I really wish that Allen would re-invest in a New Buy Me A Beer Button...lol

Have a Great Day!
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Paul Myers 13 years ago

Let's look at what's really behind most of this.

People come into new social settings wanting approval. Some stay quiet because they are worried they'll look silly. Others venture out, but are afraid of rejection. They expect it, so they read things in ways that support their expectations. Any little thing that doesn't fit with their idea of complete acceptance seems rude, or at least hostile.

Often, they'll create the problem by being defensive, or phrasing things in ways that seem harsh or challenging. They aren't usually even aware they're doing it. We see this offline all the time, and people there have the advantage of facial expressions and tone of voice to tell them it's not needed. But they do it anyway.

Online, it's all words. You can read almost anything in almost any tone you want.

That's the cause of most of the complaints about alleged rudeness to newbies. It always has been, and probably always will be. The rest of the discussion is just chattering around the edges.

Paul
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tpw

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

The next most common is the person who comes in with "I have nothing to offer. Which of you alleged geniuses is willing to prove you're for real by 'mentoring' me until I make it big? I'll give you a testimonial, and maybe 10% of what I make."

Whack!

We don't discourage sharp responses in those cases.

Paul

I have played virtual flame thrower on at least two posts like that in the last 3 months.

There was also at least a dozen people who posted other people's articles, without giving credit, and were offended when I pointed it out.

A few more people were posting other people's articles and calling them their own. On those threads, I start calling them by the name of the author of each article they posted. It pisses them off, and they think me rude for doing so, but they are trying to build a reputation here in the forum by stealing content from other people.

Another guy posted a link to some web page and when people commented, but did not hit the Thanks button, he went ballistic.

Then there are those guys who come in and say, "I only want people with real experience to answer... The rest of you can bugger off..."

You have the experience, you answer the question, and because the person doesn't like the answer, they tell you to bugger off anyway. I cannot point anyone to an example of that, because all of those threads get deleted.

There are at least two experienced Warriors who are notorious for asking a question, then arguing with everyone who dares an answer.

Which of these groups should I not be rude to?

There is one tool that keeps getting tossed around as the best thing since sliced bread. On paper, it looks awesome.

When I advise people that it has been tested exhaustively and found useless, people get mad at me for trying to steal their success and accusing me of being rude.

Is it better for me to tell you the truth or to let you wander off into the minefield of broken dreams?

Which of the people reading those threads should be limited to Rah-Rah stories, and which should be given the benefit of knowing about more than the sales copy? I provide a counter viewpoint for those who want to be able to make an educated decision.

If being an opposing viewpoint makes me rude, then so be it.

This discussion is another one of those things that looks good on paper, but not as much in the real world.

There are times when sugar coating just does not cut it in the real world.

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Ken Durham

13 years ago

I think a lot of the rudeness comes from those tired of people just posting the same old questions just to build their post count and spam their footers. That is where the frustration comes in. Although, from a website's point of view, traffic and activity is a good thing, even if it is some of the same old stuff posted over and over again.

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madmmd

13 years ago

Trying to just read the forum for few days would always give idea about how things work.. But there are lots of people who will just join the forum and ask about the easiest way to make money online.. it is really bad that most of the newbies want to be spoonfed.. they want the exact formula to make millions dollars online.. they dont have time to read and learn while they experiment with different ideas.. no one wants to fail..

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Mike McAleer

13 years ago

I think it is alright for newbs to ask questions because that is what a forum is about. You could go get answers on another website or by searching here on the WF but if you have a specific question, don't you want real Warriors to help you personally?!

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RhondaG 13 years ago

I understand that a lot of newbies want to be spoon fed, and I agree that they should search the forums for answers first. However, those people that are fed up really don't have to answer the questions. We could just politely point out that try the search first and if that doesn't help, come back and ask.

Seeing the same things does get old to us, but to THEM, it is new
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SteveJohnson

13 years ago

Originally Posted by RhondaG

I have been on the forum for several weeks now and love the way people are so willing to share their knowledge, however, what is surprising me is the way some people talk to others.

I realize that people ask questions they may seem stupid, or talk about things they may not be that knowledgeable about, but they are usually new to Internet marketing.

Remember, they came here, to this forum, to try and associate with some of the best masterminds in the business, and you have to give them credit for that! I just feel that when we (myself included) answer questions or respond to post of apparent newbies, we should try to let them down easy. There is a way to let them know their ideas are not that good, without being sharp with them.

I am sorry if this post hurts anybody's feelings, because that is not my intention. I guess I just have a soft heart when it comes to people trying to learn something.

None of us here (that I know of, anyway) have anything against someone wanting to learn. We ALL were newbies at this at some point. What causes people to be rude is that most of the answers are already here - and people are too lazy to look for them.

Originally Posted by GavinStephenson

-- I believe people are rude because they are feed up of the same questions that can be easily be found doing a goggle search.

On the other hand MAN UP if you want something bad enough rude comments will not effect one bit

+1 to both of those.

Originally Posted by JCamp

Even if the answers can be found outside of this forum, whats wrong with asking experienced ppl questions that are often asked??

I understand it gets old hearing the same questions over and over again but this is what ppl are here for to learn from others....

What's wrong with asking experienced ppl questions is answered by your next sentence. It's disrespectful of the time and efforts of experienced people to ask the same questions that have already been answered. You're wasting our time by not using your time to look for answers first.

Originally Posted by iamsuneel

Newbies are well aware that this forum is populated by IMers who have number of years of experience. Its encouraging to be kind to a newbie, if he/she asks a knowledgeable question, which many IMers around here are willing to answer. But many newbies have to consider that this forum had been around for so many years that there are not many questions which are left out unanswered.

They should spend a few hours exploring the forum and it's archives and blogs to understand what IM is in the first place. It's not that everyone can jump into the bandwagon just because some guy told that selling digital goods is easy.

I try to be as soft as possible to the newbies. Dont want to hurt them and scare them away from a reputable forum like this.

Most of us don't mind in the least answering questions and helping new people out. We're not (with a few notable exceptions) crude clones of Archie Bunker. What we respect is that someone who's asking the questions actually undertook to find the answers first, by doing a simple search.

Originally Posted by Mike McAleer

I think it is alright for newbs to ask questions because that is what a forum is about. You could go get answers on another website or by searching here on the WF but if you have a specific question, don't you want real Warriors to help you personally?!

If that's what you want, then you need to hire a Warrior coach and pay them for their time, since the answers are so readily available. You're not looking for the answer - just the personal attention from a 'Warrior'. You're saying that you don't respect the time of whomever may be answering the question, you just want some ego-boosting.

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RhondaG

13 years ago

Well I can see my thread has sparked a lot of feelings. I actually understand the feelings of everyone that has posted and guess is some ways we are all correct.

But I guess What I don't understand is ........If warriors are tired of answering the same questions and feel like it is taking too much of their time........then why are they answering. It would be better not to answer than to be rude. That is the only point I have been trying to make. Sorry if I stepped on toes.

Those that want to answer can, and if the newbie doesn't get any answers, they will probably actually go search them out, so either way the forum will help them.

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JasonParker

13 years ago

Originally Posted by RhondaG

Well I can see my thread has sparked a lot of feelings. I actually understand the feelings of everyone that has posted and guess is some ways we are all correct.

But I guess What I don't understand is ........If warriors are tired of answering the same questions and feel like it is taking too much of their time........then why are they answering. It would be better not to answer than to be rude. That is the only point I have been trying to make. Sorry if I stepped on toes.

Those that want to answer can, and if the newbie doesn't get any answers, they will probably actually go search them out, so either way the forum will help them.

You're going to get a hodgepodge of people here. That's why you should form your own masterminds with likeminded people here and chat with them. I grow tired of the negativity just as much as anyone. But you can pretty much avoid almost all of it if you just find a core group of people you want to work with here... And use the search function to get answers to certain questions.

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KenThompson

13 years ago

Originally Posted by RhondaG

But I guess What I don't understand is ........If warriors are tired of answering the same questions and feel like it is taking too much of their time........then why are they answering. It would be better not to answer than to be rude. That is the only point I have been trying to make. Sorry if I stepped on toes.

Why are they answering?

1. Random act, if there really is such a thing.
2. Promoting sig.
3. An area of expertise.
4. Sometimes the planets just line up.

Ken

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pickthat apple 13 years ago

I agree that you can find a lot by searching on Google, but I would like to think that there is still a desire for human interaction which makes asking to a "friendly face" on a forum preferable to an aseptic Google Search.
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- AJ1961 13 years ago
  
  Thank you for this! I am a newbie. I've been trying for quite a while and have learned a lot, but there's much more I don't know. I DO google for information - sometimes I can't find just what I'm looking for, sometimes I get conflicting information. Then I come here and ask a question. Not only do I consider myself new at IM, I'm also new to the wonderful world of forums! So if I (or any other noob) ask something in the wrong place or do something wrong just say so. I really don't care about my post count, and I'm certainly not trying to spam anything - I don't even have a link in my sig! I understand if someone's been warned and keeps doing something wrong, but that is not always the case. Rudeness, sadly, is not just on here! I once posted a horse for sale on CL and the first reply I got was someone calling me a bleepin idiot! Why? Why be rude if it's a duplicate question? Well I'm no shrink but my guess is that person has other issues and is just lashing out. Ridiculous really, to waste time like that. But, such is life. Rude people will always be there. Read the rude reply, call your computer screen a jerk, and move on! Most of the replies on here are helpful . Kind of sad though, when no one answers at all.
  
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  Torreylee 13 years ago
  
  Oftentimes, it just comes down to hard-working IMer's not appreciating perceived laziness. It's very, very easy to lurk and read all kinds of useful information and it's totally free, so I think that when someone asks an easy-to-find question that has been answered over and over again, it just scream that this person wants things handed to them instead of doing their due diligence. But I do believe that it's better to be kind, I just UNDERSTAND some of the rudeness.
  
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KenThompson

13 years ago

I don't know if anyone has mentioned this, and I confess to only doing
a quick scan. (That's for those who complain about people scanning rather
than reading the posts.)

I know there's some percentage of older members, in terms of membership
age, who feel a lot of people have an entitlement mentality. I do not know
what the existing perception is of this forum, but I do know this place has
had a reputation as a source of high quality help. So perhaps that is why
maybe some people come here expecting to be helped.

Some of the comments in this thread are accurate. I've read hundreds of
questions, if not thousands, that made me wonder why the person just
didn't go to Google and do a search.

Very often the answer can be found in thirty seconds and a lot of time is
saved. So think about the time for posting a thread, asking a question and
waiting for replies.

There are lots of reasons why someone may come across as being rude. A
few times in the past I've replied with a link to Google. It's not that I'm really
trying to be rude, but it's just to make a point. But I don't bother anymore
because there's a neverending stream of new people asking the same questions
which is nobody's fault. It's just the way it is. So I tend to avoid answering
too many questions anymore.

Another point is there are too many times when people express no form of
gratitude for having been helped. No, I'm not really talking about the 'thanks'
button. I don't care about that. It is just common courtesy to say something
when a person goes out of their way to help you out.

Also, there are many answers that were learned the hard way. So what you
have is someone offering the answer, but that answer is based on experience
and hard effort. It is understandable that people wonder why they should give
away such knowledge so freely to those who may not appreciate it in the first
place. That's a valid point.

But, for the OP's point. I agree that some basic civility and politeness is a good
idea for everyone to have and show to each other. I am guilty of dispensing a
few barbs, on occasion. But I do try to be polite to everyone.

Ken

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RhondaG 13 years ago

Thanks Ken, I believe you put it all in prospective.
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Katapilla Killa

13 years ago

This is the way our world works. We are naturally harsh on any newcomer in any industry to weed out the ones who cannot handle it.

Think about it. In sports they work the new guy harder than everyone else. If you are in the financial industry, you work 18 hour days for 2 years. If you work on an oil rig, you get to roughneck the wrench for a few years. Every industry has a "breaking in" period for newcomers. It is just part of life.

Believe it or not, the newbies who can handle the constant hazing and ragging, will be more successful because of it. The working world is no place for softies.

[ 2 ] Thanks

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waterburn

13 years ago

I find this forum way friendlier than some of the other IM forums out there... but of course there is no reason to act like a jerk just because a question has been answered several times before. Mostly, the Warrior Forum is pretty good in this regard, I have to say.

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westgateok

13 years ago

I agree 100% (not only because im a newbie either) People are trying to learn, and figure out what will work. They may ask questions that some would deem "stupid" but try to remember that there is a learning curve to this.

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Chris W. Sutton

13 years ago

First off, how do you define "experienced" warriors? Do you look at the number of posts? That definitely is not a good way to determine experience! It doesn't take much to make a lot of posts in here.

Number of WSO's they have ran? Again, not a good indicator!

How long they have been on the WF? Now, you're getting somewhere but that still doesn't mean they are successful.

The fact is that it's not so easy to tell who is experienced around here and who is not.I suspect that a lot of the people you are considering experienced are really not.

I think the main thing that annoys the real experienced warriors is the WAY people ask questions. Someone who says, "Okay, all you gurus, listen up! I want you to prove to me that you really earn money!" I can tell you right now that people like that will get shredded by people who know what they are doing.

Another thing that annoys experienced marketers are the people who ask questions about making money online yet they have in their signature, "Click Here to Learn How to Make $50,000 Each and Every Day!"

Personally, I read a lot of the threads and I tend to see who is helping other people and who is being a jackass. Then those same jackasses start a thread asking for help. I won't help anyone who can't give people the kind of respect they want in return.

Honestly, I don't think there is a problem with people asking questions so much as there is a problem with HOW people are asking questions.

Just my opinion!

Take care!

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mahal788

13 years ago

As a newbie, that is one of my fears - asking a stupid question in public.
So what do I do?
Google

and it gives me the exact answers I'm looking for every time.

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Happy_Balance

13 years ago

Some 'Newbies' are experienced and well-established in other areas or communities.
I (for example) was using the 'online world' before it was called the Internet or www.

Newbies rise up and elevate your status!
Have you "squeezed a pro" today? :p

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sharonhod

13 years ago

I personally think that WF is not a cool place for newbies.
This place is a jungle of Internet marketing. Look at this place, you just enter and see all those flame icons with product offers. It looks a little "scary" for the novice, can't barely know where to start from.
Don't forget that not all the users here are English native language. Actually, lots of them aren't.
So be good people and show some hospitality and respect.
WTF?, I sound like a social worker

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Michael Mayo

13 years ago

"Being Kind To Newbies"
So virtually slapping them around for asking questions that have been
asked multiple times isn't OK? :confused: ...lol j/k

I try to help when I can. There have been times where questions are asked
that require research and the person asking the question doesn't have a clue
where to find the answer so I go out of my way and locate the answer.

What Thanks do I get? They don't even reply back to the thread.

I don't care if you hit the Thanks button or not but at least let me know I
didn't waste the 30 minutes I spent locating you the answer.

Common curtiously goes a long way. Treat people like you want to be
treated and you'll find you get much better results in the long run.

I was taught that if you have nothing good to say then say nothing at all.

By the same principle in Martial Arts I was taught that it is better to injure
than to maim, better to maim than to kill, better kill than to be killed.

Thank God threads don't go to step #3

Have a Great Day!
Michael

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tpw

13 years ago

Originally Posted by RhondaG

Remember, they came here, to this forum, to try and associate with some of the best masterminds in the business, and you have to give them credit for that!

And they do get that opportunity when they come here. There is no doubt about that.

Originally Posted by RhondaG

I just feel that when we (myself included) answer questions or respond to post of apparent newbies, we should try to let them down easy. There is a way to let them know their ideas are not that good, without being sharp with them.

I am sorry if this post hurts anybody's feelings, because that is not my intention. I guess I just have a soft heart when it comes to people trying to learn something.

Sometimes it is more cruel to be kind.

Don't worry about my feelings... I have thick-skin, and besides some people suggest I don't possess any feelings...

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Michael Mayo 13 years ago

Originally Posted by tpw

Don't worry about my feelings... I have thick-skin, and besides some people suggest I don't possess any feelings...

I'll second that! :rolleyes: ...lol j/k

Have a Great Day!
Michael
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Paul Myers 13 years ago

Some quick thoughts...

People new to the game often don't bother to search first. On the flip side, they may also try the search, but not know the right words to use to get a meaningful result. Part of being new is being unfamiliar with the jargon of the trade.

Very few people actually get rude responses for asking new-folk questions. Very few.

An example of a situation where that's actually likely to happen is when someone comes in and asks a question that's already been asked and is visible on the first page of the section they're in.

A lot of people get bashed for coming in and playing certain types of games. Stealth advertising, entitlement-based demands, trolling, sig-pimping, shilling, and more. Quite often, these folks aren't really new to the forum scene, or even to this specific forum. They're commonly serial offenders, hoping that looking like newbies will get them some slack.

Then there are the professional rodents. People who sign up to leave a lot of very short posts, with the intention of getting the SEO advantages of their sig files for their clients.

There are lots of things like this that more experienced members will recognize immediately, but people who are newer to forums might not ever suspect. We can be brutal on those folks, and it looks like we're just slamming the new guy/gal. That causes some people to hesitate before posting. It's unfortunate, but not nearly as unfortunate as what would happen if we failed to address such behaviors.

The biggest mistake a new member can make is to assume they understand what's going on. This is a large social group, and like any such setting, it takes time to become familiar with the people and the rules of interaction.

The second biggest mistake is to come in here thinking to tell the folks who've been around for a while how things ought to be done. This place is the product of the interactions of thousands of very smart people for over a decade. Every one of those thousands was a Day One Noob here at some point.

We all made it past that. A lot of other people didn't. In every case, it's been the individual's choice.

So be good people and show some hospitality and respect.

Respect, beyond the basic courtesy due anyone who hasn't proved they don't deserve it, must be earned.

Paul
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DWolfe 13 years ago

With so much information overload in this area, Some Newbies might come here to get pointed in the right direction. The person you help today may be able to solve your problem or buy your WSO some time down the road.
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donhx

13 years ago

Lot of newbies in this thread, I notice. They want advice from experts so they can learn all the secrets of how to get-rich-quick with little or no effort, AND they want to be coddled too. Hmmmm.

Here is my opinion: The OP's premise is flawed. 98% of the people here are like me, and that is we try to be helpful and friendly. The other 2% might give sharp replies on occasion and you're not going to be able to change them.

I'm sorry that the OP and others don't like the way answers to their questions are served up by some. But I have found this a very open and friendly place since I first started coming here, and I think the criticism by the newbies is undeserved and misguided. Newbies need to lurk and search before they post, and that would make us all better people.

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Paul Myers 13 years ago

Don,

Newbies need to lurk and search before they post

That used to be thought so obvious that anyone stating it was assumed to be insulting the intelligence of the person to whom they were speaking. Now... Not so much.

It's funny how people who would always take the time to get the feel of a social setting offline will barge into one online and start flailing around like they were the self-evident center of attention. And , likewise, how some people who'd be comfortable in most gatherings in the real world will be inexplicably shy about saying anything at all in a forum.

Treat it like the social environment that it is, and it gets a lot simpler to figure out.

Paul
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Michael Mayo

13 years ago

Respect, beyond the basic courtesy due anyone who hasn't proved they don't deserve it, must be earned.

And that is one reason Paul has nearly 5500 Thanks under his name here on the WF!

The other is the fact he is a Mod here and many seem to suck up to him... :p

Paul, You summed it up well in your post above. Not the part I quoted but
rather the part I left out.

[/slurp]...lol

Thanks,
Have a Great Day!
Michael

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1 reply

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Paul Myers

13 years ago

Michael,

many seem to suck up to him... :p

Sadly, that's true. Not-so-sadly, it's an ineffective and ill-advised approach. It never really works well, and it backfires often.

I sort of look at it like this: You can trust an insult. It's always sincere. A gratuitous compliment, on the other hand, may just be a way to get you looking away from what's really happening.

Paul

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SteveJohnson

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

I sort of look at it like this: You can trust an insult. It's always sincere. A gratuitous compliment, on the other hand, may just be a way to get you looking away from what's really happening.

Paul

A truism for the ages

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tpw

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

many seem to suck up to him...

Michael,Sadly, that's true. Not-so-sadly, it's an ineffective and ill-advised approach. It never really works well, and it backfires often.

I sort of look at it like this: You can trust an insult. It's always sincere. A gratuitous compliment, on the other hand, may just be a way to get you looking away from what's really happening.

Paul

Harmonica choir...

Ready, set, blow...

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reboot38

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

You can trust an insult. It's always sincere. A gratuitous compliment, on the other hand, may just be a way to get you looking away from what's really happening.

^^Nice quote! Always consider the source tho

Seems like most of the frustration results from people asking the same question over and over. I haven't asked a question here yet (plenty to come) but I have in other forums and before I do, I do two things:

First - search the forum using the search function provided by the forum.

Second - search the forum using Google. Most probably know how to do this but for those who don't:

Go to google > Enter the following:

[Your question or keywords] site:warriorforum.com

This technique also works on subforums like Warrior Special Offers. I'm getting ready to release a product there so I used google to search all WSOs and Classifieds to see who had done it in the past and how well they were received.

Maybe it's just me, but I far prefer google's results over vBulletin's.

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SteveJohnson

13 years ago

Originally Posted by RhondaG

Remember, they came here, to this forum, to try and associate with some of the best masterminds in the business, and you have to give them credit for that!

And they also get to associate with some of the minds that think they're the best masterminds in the business!

Sorry, couldn't resist that

Michael and others put it well - old hand or not, anyone who answers a question deserves some appreciation whether its a short post or the hitting of the thank you button.

I don't mind answering questions at all, if I have the answer - what I do mind and get a little irritated with is people coming here expecting to be spoonfed. If I wanted to spoonfeed again, I'd have more kids.

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rlhurst 13 years ago

As a newbie myself, my attitude is glean from responses what I can, thank those who responded, and let those who may come across as "rude" roll off my back.

This is not just happening at this site.....

I have been a member of a songwriting site for many years...... started out knowing very little, and eventually progressed to the point of having artists record my songs (and me record theirs)

I went from asking the simple questions, to being the one answering them. With all sorts of personalities, you're going to get all kind of responses. If you want something bad enough, you put up with the good and bad. Basically that's just life, isn't it? Ron
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docdurdin2

13 years ago

Hi Warriors,
I just had to throw my hat in on this one.. First off, did anyone ever consider that the people asking the questions may be those folks you either have on your list or perhaps invited? Nice to invite someone in and then throw water in their face, eh? We spend countless hours trying to attract these people on a hope and a prayer.

I'll be more than happy to get them on my list and help guide them through the garbage pile the've got to wade through to become an IM'er. I've always said; becoming an internet marketer is like winning a new car only to find it dumped on your lawn in parts. What the so called newbies have to discover is that most of these people will continue to have them run from one product to the next until they finally burn out mentally, financially or both. Guess how many people they are going to tell to stay away from this business?

It doesn't take but a moment of kindness to turn into a lifetime friendship and a good customer. If you are a teacher post all those stupid ANSWERS on your blog and send them there,eh? I'll take that any day..

Cheers, Doc

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vilcabamba

13 years ago

i like this post.

I was new to the forum and was treated extremely rudely b/c i had my sig. in the post. I innocently asked a question..and didn't realize that my sig from this account that was setup months ago ..was going to get flamed the way it did. I was looking for internet marketing help and i got attacked my angry vultures. It was innocent and i was treated like a criminal. I was very surprised...and hurt.

So thanks for this post!

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vilcabamba

13 years ago

This was said by TPW

(If everyone who is occasionally rude kept their opinions to themselves, there would not be that much wisdom floating around this place. I am not sure you would want to come here if all those people stopped sharing.")

I think you were the one who was bashing me when i made my first post so i'm not surprised you said that. I don't think rudeness has anything to do with sharing pertinent information on internet marketing. I guess you don't believe in karma.

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tpw

13 years ago

Originally Posted by vilcabamba

This was said by TPW

(If everyone who is occasionally rude kept their opinions to themselves, there would not be that much wisdom floating around this place. I am not sure you would want to come here if all those people stopped sharing.")

I think you were the one who was bashing me when i made my first post so i'm not surprised you said that. I don't think rudeness has anything to do with sharing pertinent information on internet marketing. I guess you don't believe in karma.

Then you would be wrong, because I do believe in karma.

Hate me if you will, but a lot of people find the information that I share to be very useful to them.

Since the post that you refer to does not seem to be there anymore, I cannot comment on why I may had been rude to you or even if I was.

There are some people to whom I have been rude. And there are other people who called me rude, simply because I disagreed with them. We have no record for which to determine which group you belong to, or whether you are mistaking me for another Warrior.

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Damani Tabor 13 years ago

I do agree that a lot of the information requested by newbies can be easily attained via google.

Indeed the forum is best used for nuanced questions which are not answered directly by general info.

Lets be honest.

Some of these articles on google are not as detailed where case study and precise steps are concerned when compared to some of the ubiquitous case study posts on WF.

All in all, treat the newbies nice k?
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tpw

13 years ago

Here is the deal Doc.

Yes we do consider those things.

But many of those who are calling us out for being "rude" desire to learn from the best.

Sometimes newbies come into the forum and start spouting stuff that could cost the innocent money and loss.

For example, there is a thread bouncing around right now where someone is advising people to register to certain networks using false information, in an effort to bypass network TOS's and state laws.

As Kay beautifully demonstrated in that thread, if newbies were to follow that advice, they may end up losing a lot of time pursuing participation in those things and in the end, they could lose their business and possibly go to prison for tax evasion.

Not a nice ending for a newbie that is taking advice from another newbie, is it?

Some people are just rude because they are jerks.

Some of us are rude, because the conversation requires someone to snap newbies out of the hypnotic trance they are being wooed into.

If it was rude for Kay to point out the information that was incorrect, then why does anyone come here "to try and associate with some of the best masterminds in the business", as the OP so eloquently put it?

You either want to learn from the best, or you want people to always play nice.

I am here to learn from the best. I will leave "play nice" for my next date.

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airrdamax09

13 years ago

I have found this site a great resource for learning about all types of Internet marketing. Seeing how I am still just getting my toes in the door in my teens, I have a lot to learn. I won't lie, but asking questions on this forum can be intimidating, due to the extensive knowledge base of all the members, but that is what makes this forum great!

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Simon Ashari

13 years ago

Appreciate your concern Rhonda, but you have to understand that there have been people who have been here (sometimes for years) who have had the same questions repeated over and over again.

New members are encouraged to read the rules and guidelines given to them before posting on the forum.

Also, it never hurt anyone to do a search before asking a question (that has potentially been asked hundreds of times before).

Regards

-Simon

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regibiz65

13 years ago

I agree that sometimes people can discourage newbies by the way they respond but overall the forum has a lot of helpful information. Sometimes people may not realize that his/her question have already been answered. The term "newbie" explains it all.

Please be polite with people and just respectfully refer them to the section where they may find the answer. It's just a matter of courtesy.

This forum is the best though. I love it here. My very first Ad placed in WF got me a lot of sign-ups for MyiSystem. That's great!

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lilphilupt

13 years ago

Me personally, i think if your already doing good in I.M you should treat a newbie with respect regardless because you were also a newbie at one time.

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revenue27

13 years ago

My suggestion to newbies before you open new thread to ask question is try to use the search function, just put the keyword that you're looking for, you can also use the tag search and tag cloud link.

If you really don't find any topic that can answer your question then you open new thread state that you have search up and low from the warrior forums that satisfied your needs, ask politely and give the detail what you are really looking, also make your thread tittle clear and match with your question. Each of us are comes from newbies too it doesn't brake our wallet to answer the newbies questions.

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tpw

13 years ago

I would never tell a newbie to Google it.

When I search Google, I find a lot of forums with programming help or computer tech support where people ask the right question, and the old-timers say that was answered in another thread, Google it.

LOL That is how I got to this page... I Googled it.

I don't believe that it is so much asking a question that is asked once a week, but more so, asking a question where there are 3-4 threads on the same topic in the main forum in that moment.

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Chris Worner 13 years ago

Originally Posted by tpw

I would never tell a newbie to Google it.

You don't have to, Let me google that for you

Chris
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- tpw 13 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Chris Worner
  
  You don't have to, Let me google that for you
  
  Chris
  
  You should invite the puppet, Chris.
  
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  Chris Worner 13 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by tpw
  
  You should invite the puppet, Chris.
  
  Day off, union rules.
  
  Chris
  
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  Roaddog 13 years ago
  
  In Italy for thirty years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder and bloodshed but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci and the Renaissance. In Switzerland, they had brotherly love, they had five hundred years of democracy and peace and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock. - Graham Greene
  
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MarksWineClub

13 years ago

One other small point I'll make: We've all been there at one point or another right? While some people might want people to read for weeks before asking questions, quite frankly though not many people learn that way.

Part of the entire point of being active on a forum like this is to help others, otherwise why not simply keep your successful ideas to yourself?

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ben1ewis

13 years ago

Great words well written RhondaG.
Some people that have experience in IM are really great at helping others, however, some should keep their opinions to themselves!
You know how you are! he he!
Anyway this is why the forum is great because all sorts of people can get into IM and share their experiences.

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1 reply

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tpw 13 years ago

Originally Posted by ben1ewis

Some people that have experience in IM are really great at helping others, however, some should keep their opinions to themselves!
You know how you are! he he!

If everyone who is occasionally rude kept their opinions to themselves, there would not be that much wisdom floating around this place.

I am not sure you would want to come here if all those people stopped sharing.
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Point Blank

13 years ago

Lets be real, we were all "newbies" at one point and had no clue what to do when we first started IM. However, unlike most, I was smart enough to do my own research & learn the ropes without advice from anyone.

Because no helped me it made me stronger & wiser cause I learned everything through my own mistakes. Now, I can see why some people are rude when newbs want you to spoon feed them everything.

When its all said and done, if you want to make monies online then you got to pay your dues.

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O0o0O

13 years ago

It's necessary to be courteous to everyone online. It's called "netiquette", which stands for Internet Etiquette. The person on the receiving end of your rude remark could end up affecting your business in unprecedented ways.

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christopher jon

13 years ago

If a new marketer posts a question and a dozen other new marketers answer the question...what if all the answers are incorrect?

That shouldn't be a question. It's a statement of truth and happens daily.

One of my recent favorites was a wordpress guru suggesting that it didn't matter what a website looked like in IE as long as it looked good in Firefox. And yes, he was pitching his web design services.

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moneyninja

13 years ago

Everything is cyclical, especially knowledge. Anyone who comes to my site may eventually end up here and would I be rude to them for asking questions I myself asked months earlier? I hope not.

Do the people who flame noobs also get mad at their toddlers for not understanding basic concepts? "WHY CAN'T YOU UNDERSTAND THAT IF YOU THROW THAT OUT THE WINDOW IT WILL BE GONE!?!" LOL

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MagicShovels

13 years ago

There was a great thread about this on Reddit too with a lot of interesting comments and similar ideas:

reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/f7kj9/do_you_realize_that_when_you_belittle_people_for/

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Sparhawke

13 years ago

Originally Posted by tpw

Here is the deal Doc.

Yes we do consider those things.

But many of those who are calling us out for being "rude" desire to learn from the best.

Sometimes newbies come into the forum and start spouting stuff that could cost the innocent money and loss.

For example, there is a thread bouncing around right now where someone is advising people to register to certain networks using false information, in an effort to bypass network TOS's and state laws.

As Kay beautifully demonstrated in that thread, if newbies were to follow that advice, they may end up losing a lot of time pursuing participation in those things and in the end, they could lose their business and possibly go to prison for tax evasion.

Not a nice ending for a newbie that is taking advice from another newbie, is it?

Some people are just rude because they are jerks.

Some of us are rude, because the conversation requires someone to snap newbies out of the hypnotic trance they are being wooed into.

If it was rude for Kay to point out the information that was incorrect, then why does anyone come here "to try and associate with some of the best masterminds in the business", as the OP so eloquently put it?

You either want to learn from the best, or you want people to always play nice.

I am here to learn from the best. I will leave "play nice" for my next date.

I agree fully with you Tpw, I try to be as nice as I can possibly be however my mind does play tricks on me and disappear while my fingers decide to take the helm and run riot sometimes.

The only way to sometimes to stop a person in hysterics from hurting themselves and others is bring bring them back to reality with a short, sharp slap across the face...I do not do it to be a prick, but to bring them face to face with the realities of the situation fast.

I spend a lot of time on Namepros, and every day I see the most blatant TM squatting by some people, usually newbies and some who have been around long enough to know better...if I do not tell them in no uncertain terms that a business leviathan is going to screw their pooch bad for squatting on their domain who else is?

Rudeness for the sake of it is one thing, rudeness for someones benefit is another...you have to be smart enough to recognise the context.

“It is rude to silence a fool, and cruelty to let him go on.” ~ Unknown

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tpw

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Sparhawke

Rudeness for the sake of it is one thing, rudeness for someones benefit is another...you have to be smart enough to recognise the context.

"It is rude to silence a fool, and cruelty to let him go on." ~ Unknown

I'd drop you a Thanks, but you know how it goes. I had to call out the Harmonica Choir earlier today, because I have run out again.

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Sparhawke

13 years ago

I don't get it lol :confused:

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tpw 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Sparhawke

I don't get it lol :confused:

I kept complaining to Paul Myers about how 25 Thanks Buttons a day were never enough.

I actually said I was going to "Keep harping about it" until I found satisfaction.

He responded that since I was from Oklahoma, it would make more sense for me to play the harmonica instead.
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Paul Myers

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Sparhawke

I don't get it lol :confused:

Bill gives out a lot of thank yous. When he hits the limit, he brings out the harmonica joke, as his way of reminding me that he thinks I should do something about how many can be given.

Running gag.

Paul

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tpw

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Bill gives out a lot of thank yous. When he hits the limit, he brings out the harmonica joke, as his way of reminding me that he thinks I should do something about how many can be given.

Running gag.

Paul

I'd thank you by hitting the Thanks button Paul, but....

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Paul Myers 13 years ago

I'd thank you by hitting the Thanks button Paul, but....

What's that I hear off in the distance? Sounds like Junior Wells...

Paul

PS: You apparently missed the pun, too. What do blues players call a harmonica?
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- tpw 13 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Paul Myers
  
  PS: You apparently missed the pun, too. What do blues players call a harmonica?
  
  Must have... :confused:
  
  And I have no idea...
  
  p.s. Ken. I think the one you played was the mouth harp.
  
  Thanks
  
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  Paul Myers 13 years ago
  
  Bill,
  
  And I have no idea...
  
  Not to put too fine a point on it, but... They call it a harp.
  
  Since you were singing the blues about harping, it seemed appropriate.
  
  Paul
  
  Thanks
  
  1 reply
  
  Signature
  
  .
  Stop by Paul's Pub - my little hangout on Facebook.
  
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  tpw 13 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Paul Myers
  
  Not to put too fine a point on it, but... They call it a harp.
  
  Since you were singing the blues about harping, it seemed appropriate.
  
  Paul
  
  Any day that I learn something new is a good day.
  
  Thanks Paul.
  
  Thanks
  
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- drmani 13 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Paul Myers
  
  What's that I hear off in the distance? Sounds like Junior Wells...
  
  Paul
  
  PS: You apparently missed the pun, too. What do blues players call a harmonica?
  
  NOW I know how/why the harmonica post made its way into another thread
  Bill was posting on (about article marketing!)
  
  I found it completely weird there - but now see he was probably responding to
  you... but doing it there!
  
  Dr.Mani
  
  Thanks
  
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KenThompson 13 years ago

Originally Posted by tpw

I'd thank you by hitting the Thanks button Paul, but....

For you, Bill... please, no need to play the harmonica.

When I was a kid, I had one of those things that twang. Mouth harps? Or is that
a harmonica? The twangy thing is made out of metal, and you hold it between
your teeth and pluck the metal lever type thing.

Funny... I played that when I was living in Altus Oklahoma. I stopped when I moved
back to the east coast.

If I was still living in Montana, I guess I'd just unload a few rounds in the air.

Ken
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Mly2000

13 years ago

ok, newb here, and not at all scared to admit to that.

1: im not to sure how to properly use the forum yet, for f's sake, i do not even know what the "thank" button is. ( yes, you may laugh)

2: i have spent HOURS upon hours trying to do GOOGLE searches for my information, the fact is, you get X number of results, and they all say to do something DIFFERENT, it is a nightmare i have run into many times already.

3: just cause i ask a newbie question, does NOT mean i am lazy, i have stayed up 36+ hours multiple times trying to do what im asking, i do not ask until my brain feels like it is about to explode.

so, some newbs may want the silver spoon, some may want sh*t handed to em, but not all of us, and if a newb isnt willing to do the work themselves, then i would say they do not deserve an answer, and need to find another passion. NO SWEAT=NO GAIN.... so please do not stereotype all newbs as worthless, lazy bums.

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Sparhawke

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Mly2000

ok, newb here, and not at all scared to admit to that.

1: im not to sure how to properly use the forum yet, for f's sake, i do not even know what the "thank" button is. ( yes, you may laugh)

2: i have spent HOURS upon hours trying to do GOOGLE searches for my information, the fact is, you get X number of results, and they all say to do something DIFFERENT, it is a nightmare i have run into many times already.

3: just cause i ask a newbie question, does NOT mean i am lazy, i have stayed up 36+ hours multiple times trying to do what im asking, i do not ask until my brain feels like it is about to explode.

so, some newbs may want the silver spoon, some may want sh*t handed to em, but not all of us, and if a newb isnt willing to do the work themselves, then i would say they do not deserve an answer, and need to find another passion. NO SWEAT=NO GAIN.... so please do not stereotype all newbs as worthless, lazy bums.

It is not about asking newbies questions or stupid questions, I still do it on occasion and I am betting someone here can still remember a comment of mine that came completely out of left field and to think about it now still makes me cringe...but its fine, we don't all have the same level of experience or same backgrounds; thats what makes a forum great.

Google can be very difficult to navigate and find what you want, I have been using it for years and still I get lost several times a day...just ask your question in a clear concise and polite manner and it will be answered.

The trick is not to be demanding, arrogant or confrontational.

Everyone you are asking a question of here does not have any obligation to answer your question so ask with due respect and you will get it.

If you do not understand something then ask them or someone else to clarify and people will respect that far more than if you go off and make a completely new topic saying how you didn't get what you were looking for.

Sometimes you have to be assertive, sometimes you have to market yourself but people here can smell bovine scat from 500 yards away, if you do not know something then admit it.

The one thing that irritates me with my brother is if he doesn't know anything he will ask, and then start dictating to me what the answer is...I welcome debate and opposing views, but if you do not know then do not simply start arguing for the sake of it :p

I never disparage the newbies, I once went from a newbie to forum admin of a major computer games fansite in 2 years and the only reason I am here is because one day my posts got so much international recognition that I didn't understand how I had managed to market it and achieve 98% of all forum views daily for 2 months. I made nothing from those posts and missed my shot but I wanted to learn.

We all have forum personalities, some are trolls, some are fishers...some are toxic granny and some are the kung fu master. I personally am a big cat, I do not like to fight but I will...and I will take any newbie who wants to play down hard.

I try to figure out who someone is before I answer them, and some people make it too easy and I get annoyed.

Respect the forum users here, they have a vast wealth of information to share however it is up to you to follow it up and ask questions and try to sift through the crap to find the gems

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Mly2000

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Sparhawke

It is not about asking newbies questions or stupid questions, I still do it on occasion and I am betting someone here can still remember a comment of mine that came completely out of left field and to think about it now still makes me cringe...but its fine, we don't all have the same level of experience or same backgrounds; thats what makes a forum great.

Google can be very difficult to navigate and find what you want, I have been using it for years and still I get lost several times a day...just ask your question in a clear concise and polite manner and it will be answered.

The trick is not to be demanding, arrogant or confrontational.

Everyone you are asking a question of here does not have any obligation to answer your question so ask with due respect and you will get it.

If you do not understand something then ask them or someone else to clarify and people will respect that far more than if you go off and make a completely new topic saying how you didn't get what you were looking for.

Sometimes you have to be assertive, sometimes you have to market yourself but people here can smell bovine scat from 500 yards away, if you do not know something then admit it.

The one thing that irritates me with my brother is if he doesn't know anything he will ask, and then start dictating to me what the answer is...I welcome debate and opposing views, but if you do not know then do not simply start arguing for the sake of it :p

I never disparage the newbies, I once went from a newbie to forum admin of a major computer games fansite in 2 years and the only reason I am here is because one day my posts got so much international recognition that I didn't understand how I had managed to market it. I made nothing from those posts and missed my shot but I wanted to learn.

Lol, i would consider a man or woman that begins arguing without the correct knowledge base to back up their side of the debate a fool.
however we are getting off topic, either way, a new person such as me can always use the golden rule, no question is a stupid question, and the worst that can happen is someone cusses you out, with words typed on a computer screen, anyone who takes that personally is funny IMO.

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tpw

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Sparhawke

The trick is not to be demanding, arrogant or confrontational.

Everyone you are asking a question of here does not have any obligation to answer your question so ask with due respect and you will get it.

Those are some nice rules for the road.

If followed by people asking questions, it would eliminate 98% of the "rude" replies in the forum.

Originally Posted by Sparhawke

We all have forum personalities, some are trolls, some are fishers...some are toxic granny and some are the kung fu master. I personally am a big cat, I do not like to fight but I will...and I will take any newbie who wants to play down hard.

I try to figure out who someone is before I answer them, and some people make it too easy and I get annoyed.

Respect the forum users here, they have a vast wealth of information to share however it is up to you to follow it up and ask questions and try to sift through the crap to find the gems

Very well said, good sir, with portions put into bold for emphasis.

Originally Posted by KenThompson

There are so many posts in this thread. I won't even scan them to see if this has been said. Seems like it would have been mentioned.

But a huge curve ball in this discussion is people have different ideas
of what constitutes rudeness.

Ok, so Bill don't flame me if that point has been made. Or, flame me.

No flame for skimming.

Paul eluded to it, yes. But you added depth to the idea.

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Kay King 13 years ago

I think there is a big issue some newbies in this thread are missing entirely.

It doesn't matter if you are brand new - we've all been there. You don't have to ask fancy questions and people here are often very willing to help.

BUT - if you are flamed about your signature, it's probably becuase you didn't read the rules. Or it may you are asking "Is this any good" about a product you are promoting in your signature.

Or you may be complaining "I can't make any money" with a signature that says "let me show you who to make $XXXX in the next 10 minutes".

If you are bumping old threads that are 6 months to 3 years old with comments like "great info" or an opinion on a problem that occurred in 2008 - you are bumping the threads to the top of the section and causing confusion.

You won't always be a newbie - in fact your goal should be getting out of that newbie category as quickly as possible by learning and doing.

What is the big issue? Simple - your reputation. If you are going to work in IM and stay on this forum, start thinking about how you appear to other members. I'm NOT saying to pretend to be something you're not - you'll be called out quickly doing that.

Just saying to show some common sense and think ahead to the future when you might well benefit financially from partnerships made on this forum. If you act like a spoiled brat or an idiot - those posts stay here for a very long time. What you say on a forum is what molds other members' perception of YOU. Worth thinking about.

kay
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Vyliss

13 years ago

I think people ask before searching because they really don't know how to search. It's only obvious to us because we're used to doing research. Newbies, depending on their background probably doesn't know how to search effectively to get the answer to their question quickly.

I know some people type in really weird phrases in google to get an answer, which usually results in them NOT getting the most accurate results. It can be frustrating to watch if you're used to search for stuff like me.

I always research first before asking a question because it's often 100x faster and more accurate - but that's because I know where to look and how to find what I need.

Complete newbies will be clueless and they will most likely have the mentally of someone going to a retail store, they'd much rather ask a real person to get an answer than spend 10 minutes looking online for the same info.

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KenThompson

13 years ago

There are so many posts in this thread. I won't even scan them to
see if this has been said. Seems like it would have been mentioned.

But a huge curve ball in this discussion is people have different ideas
of what constitutes rudeness.

Ok, so Bill don't flame me if that point has been made. Or, flame me.

I've been accused of being rude, shocking isn't it, but in my mind I
was just being direct. I'm not talking about cursing or swearing, either.
Just being direct about it. It all depends on the situation. But anymore
I tend to almost not care if someone thinks I'm being rude. lol. Terrible,
isn't it?

Ken

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Brianne

13 years ago

Very true. Everyone has to start somewhere.

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drmani

13 years ago

Originally Posted by RhondaG

I just feel that when we (myself included) answer questions or respond to post of apparent newbies, we should try to let them down easy.

Kindness manifests in many forms.

Politeness is only one of them.

If I politely encourage a newbie down the wrong path, that's not
being kind, it's being extremely unkind.

If I harshly guide one away from a dangerous or ineffective one,
it's actually being kind.

Also, some folks would wilt and wither at a sarcastic or mocking
tone. Others would need a kick in the seat of their pants to
even get off their high-horse and start listening, let alone take
the advise/suggestions to heart and do something with them.

And the "best masterminds in the business" have seen 'generations'
(very literally) of these Internet marketers come and go.

With no way to isolate or categorize which group any one falls into,
the person tendering guidance follows a style that they feel works
well.

To be fair and honest, I don't think I've met any (or many) Warriors
who set out deliberately to be unkind and rude to beginners with
the intent of putting them down or dashing their dreams. They are
behaving as they naturally would with ANYONE - and yes, some folks
are rude dudes, that's just the nature of any sizable segment of
humanity.

I'm like you in that "I just have a soft heart when it comes to
people trying to learn something"... and for that VERY reason, I
will sometimes come down like a ton of bricks on a silly idea or
concept that I have myself tested, tweaked, tried and found does
NOT work.

Call me not being kind, if you will - but the intent behind such
(rare) behavior is anything but

My 2 cents.

All success
Dr.Mani

P.S. - You asked:

Originally Posted by RhondaG

If warriors are tired of answering the same questions and feel like it is taking too much of their time........then why are they answering.

Because they care. And want to help the person asking.

And because the advise being offered is sometimes WRONG.

Yes, I get tired at times about saying the same thing over and over
on different threads. But NOT to do so means that the few or many
who read THAT thread will carry away a wrong suggestion - and might
hurt themselves or their business.

Isn't that how an experienced or expert person would behave? As a
doctor, I often give medical advise I *know* will NOT be heeded.
It makes me curt or blunt at times. Would it be better to not give
that advise at all?

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tpw

13 years ago

Originally Posted by drmani

If warriors are tired of answering the same questions and feel like it is taking too much of their time........then why are they answering.

Because they care. And want to help the person asking.

And because the advise being offered is sometimes WRONG.

Yes, I get tired at times about saying the same thing over and over
on different threads. But NOT to do so means that the few or many
who read THAT thread will carry away a wrong suggestion - and might
hurt themselves or their business.

Isn't that how an experienced or expert person would behave? As a
doctor, I often give medical advise I *know* will NOT be heeded.
It makes me curt or blunt at times. Would it be better to not give
that advise at all?

Dr. Mani: This is a Harmonica moment.

I am constantly amazed by your down-to-earth wisdom.

You have such a brilliant gift for taking the most abstract concepts and putting them into the most beautiful analogies.

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Sparhawke

13 years ago

I think you hit it on the head Kay, all we really have here is reputation and with not being able to see each other the only thing we have is our words.

It has been said that people make their first impressions of you in the first two minutes, this is wrong. It is about 4 seconds; they judge you from how you stand, how you walk, talk and engage with them in the first few seconds almost subconsciously...

Here we have to judge and evaluate every single post on the merits of how it is presented and I have seen many masters too fall at this step and give the wrong impression of what they are trying to project.

The blunt, rude people who cut right to the heart of the matter I will take any day of the week over someone who cannot get their point across or is too weak-willed to stand up for what they think and believe in and instead let people go on their merry way with false illusions.

Newbies, get this right, we are not here to kill you or your business, the only way we succeed is by getting everyone to succeed.

I remember the early days of the internet when you couldn't move for the email spam all over the place, you had people buying millions of names just to send them every unfocused message under the sun, if we allowed you to do that these days you would destroy the reputations of so many and you would also get yourself in trouble with the spam laws in place due to this practice.

Domainers have long had a bad reputation due to a few TM squatters thinking it is perfectly fine to take a name and hold it to ransom and the more people see stories like that in the news the more people regard us with distrust.

A reputation takes a lifetime to build up, and a second to obliterate.

You honestly think I am going to let you tarnish my good name by proxy, you think anyone else here would?

If someone is being rude to you to get you to stop your destructive behaviour you have to remember that at the end of the day it is for your own good, and the good of all.

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wendymay1

13 years ago

There are many good GURUS in this forum who are willing to help any newbie who is willing to learn the skills to be a successful IM. Because thats all it takes. Internet Marketing success is all about learning the skills.
Learn each skill one at a time with real focus will give the newbie a great head start.

1. Set your goals
2. A positive mindset attitude
3. Persistance
4. Monitor each performance by signing into Google analytics.
5. Keep learning.

Start every day by learning, understanding & implementing.

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taxi952

13 years ago

I`m a newbie my self and many times I think about the question I`m going to ask before i do just because I don`t want to be spammy or inapropriate.

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Being Kind To Newbies

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