Ask Me No Questions, I'll Tell You No Lies

13 years ago

I also sometimes participate in free list-building giveaways
where, when I try, I'm the top referrer of either JV partners,
or new members, or both.

I have absolutely no idea where some of the numbers on some
of those sites come from :-)

You gotta love internet math!

Willie

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mikemcmillan 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Willie Crawford

You gotta love internet math!
Willie

Actually, Willie, the math behind how many sales one can expect from any given mailing isn't all that complicated. Here's how to make the calculation. It's accurate to ±.005% .

Your sales will be equal to...

I won't go into it all--it's pretty self-explanatory. OMG, are we going to be tested on that? You bet. It's on your final exam !

Seriously, you mentioned about how often smaller lists can outperform much larger ones sometimes. If you look at some of the "big guys" who mail once or twice to their lists each day, every one of their subscribers who opens their email and clicks on their affiliate link is going to be hit with an opt-in form an a sales page or an exit opt-in form.

As time goes by their subscribers get on so many lists that they just can't (won't) open all of the emails from those many mailers. So yes, I wouldn't turn down a list of 100,000 subscribers if someone gave it to me, but I would never get open rates like I get with my relatively small list.

I think a lot of people with lists in the 1k to 10k range may have more responsive lists because they perhaps don't do all the adswaps and reciprocal mailings some of the bigger people do.

I mean, I'd love it if the only list my subscribers were on was mine. That's obviously not a possibility. The more you work your list out there I guess the more it gets polluted, diluted, etc. It's a trade off, I know.

By the way, Willie, I clicked on the link in your sig file and got your stuff. I always tell people that it's a good idea to do what the big guys do more so than what they say to do. Watch what successful people do and ask yourself why they do that--it's a free education. Hint, hint. Thanks! --Mike
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drmani 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Willie Crawford

You gotta love internet math!

Willie

Willie, "Internet math" is taught at the same school where we
make those "funny friends"

All success
Dr.Mani
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- Willie Crawford 13 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by drmani
  
  Willie, "Internet math" is taught at the same school where we
  make those "funny friends"
  
  All success
  Dr.Mani
  
  Excellent post Dr. Mani :-)
  
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O0o0O

13 years ago

You're absolutely right. In internet marketing, you will never truly know what results to expect until you perform a test. This is because the market is always changing and evolving. One week, the list can be in a buying mood, and the next week, they may not. Testing and more testing is the only way to really know what kinds of conversion ratios you are to expect in the near future.

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Ron Douglas

13 years ago

I know what you mean Willie. You don't really know what someone is capable of until they actually mail for you. Some big names will disappoint and some seemingly small players will crush it.

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JamesPenn

13 years ago

I completely agree - although I'm guilty of making presumptuous calculations in my head. Normally always my estimates are higher than the number of clicks and sales a JV partner sends.

I've woken up some mornings really excited because I know a really big player in this market was planning to mail for me. I see their email go out and then wait for the sales come rolling in... And I wait, and wait and wait.

It makes me wonder what some people are doing to their email lists to make them perform so poorly.

On the other hand a guy got in touch with me a month or so ago interested in promoting my product. He said he had an email list of 2,200 and would be mailing the next day.

The next day his email went out and he generated around 60 sales from about 300 clicks.

Now that guys doing something right when it comes to building a relationship with his subscribers.

Imagine if the guys with email lists of 100,000+ put the same effort into relationship building.

James

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LastWarrior

13 years ago

Originally Posted by JamesPenn

On the other hand a guy got in touch with me a month
or so ago interested in promoting my product. He said
he had an email list of 2,200 and would be mailing the next day.

The next day his email went out and he generated around 60
sales from about 300 clicks.

Now that guys doing something right when it comes to
building a relationship with his subscribers.

I don't think his relationship with his subscribers are near as
impacting as that proclaims.

If my best friend was pitching me on something to buy and
the value is not there or I'm just not interested because it's
not for me, I'm not buying.

I think it's more about matching the niche product/service
with the subscribers. You place something in front of them
that matches their interest and you'll see results.

I don't think you'll have near the results of trying to sell a
dog grooming video to a list of horse owners as you will to a
list of subscribers who own dogs.

The money is in the match.

LastWarrior

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Willie Crawford 13 years ago

Originally Posted by LastWarrior

...
The money is in the match.

LastWarrior

The money is in the match IF they trust your recommendations.

Your list members often realize that they cannot be experts on
lots of things (none of us can) so assuming the list focuses on
a fairly narrow topic, your subscribers grow to regard you as the
expert (filter) for information on that topic... and so they are
more likely to follow your recommendations.

I do buy products on topics that I'm not an expert on, say
something like server security, that I know that I need, but
buy specific products because of who recommends it.

Admittedly, the need does have to be there, but in many cases
I do buy largely because of who recommends it.

Also, perhaps sadly, some people DO make more sales because
of who they are. People buy because they seller has achieved
celebrity status... they sort of have "the podium effect" for
lack of a better term.

Two people can send the exact same message to a group
and one will make more sales because of who he is... and
the perception that his subscribers have of him.

Sadly, people will often open an email, read a recommendation,
click on a link, scroll to the order button, and buy before they've
even had an opportunity to read the email or webpage. I say
sadly because we can be so conditioned... even if we don't
like to think that we are that programmable :-)

Willie
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- VanessaB 13 years ago
  
  Willie,
  Thank you for making this post, and thanks to all who also contributed. I've been hit with a swamp of adswap requests lately.
  
  My list is pretty small, but after some recent startling insight into what they want, I've started to segment them by their interest. So I have a few different offers I can make. But when I ask the potential adswap partner what they want I get a lot of 'oh it doesn't matter' answers.
  
  I've also been getting requests to promote paid products through an adswap, and wasn't at all sure what to make of that.
  
  The way I understand listbuilding, adswaps are for freebies to someone else's list, and possibly an immediate upsell by which each adswap partner can get anywhere from 0%-100% commission.
  
  I was under the impression that buying solo ads was for promoting paid products, although it is possible to also give a freebie with the same upsell/commission structure as well.
  
  I did purchase some solo ads a few months ago, and didn't get nearly the results I had hoped for with it, but I do think that having the immediate upsell with at least some commission would encourage the list owner to be more involved in the mailing...
  
  Or am I way off base in all of my thinking? (which is entirely possible)
  
  -Dani
  
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Willie Crawford

13 years ago

Well, we definitely see too many marketers using cut-and-paste emails,
so they shouldn't expect much response given that their subscribers ARE
likely on multiple lists, and can't feel like they are being provided
any real value if they get the same identical email from a dozen
marketers.

Even on one of the recent free giveaways that I participated in, my
strategy to just get people to join (as contributors) was to educated
them.

I explained that they could actually build three separate lists in three
separate niches at the same time just by offering three different quality
gifts... funneling the subscriber to a unique autoresponder with each.

I actually advocated creating a unique, QUALITY gift for each offer, and
in fact, offered two brand new recordings that I had recently done as
gifts... to show them that I did what I teach.

That not only taught them HOW to benefit from what I was recommending but
it also led to me having more people upgrade than the next three jv
partners COMBINED.

You see, my email suggesting that they participate, and telling them how
to build multiple lists at once, was also my call to action telling them
to take the upgrade. The fact that I had more upgrades than the next three
combine (who incidentally EACH referred more JV partners than I did) tells
me that I probably brough in a "higher quality" JV partner. I definitely
earned more money :-)

If you can actually TEACH the subscriber something while selling, giving
them a good reason to buy and use the product, you will make a lot more
sales from the same list.

That does improve my click-through rate, BUT I have sent emails out that
got such a low response rate that I checked a few things to confirm how
many emails actually went out.

So, I do think that over-all response rates are down... for some of us.

Willie

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JamesPenn

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Willie Crawford

Well, we definitely see too many marketers using cut-and-paste emails,
so they shouldn't expect much response given that their subscribers ARE
likely on multiple lists, and can't feel like they are being provided
any real value if they get the same identical email from a dozen
marketers.

Even on one of the recent free giveaways that I participated in, my
strategy to just get people to join (as contributors) was to educated
them.

I explained that they could actually build three separate lists in three
separate niches at the same time just by offering three different quality
gifts... funneling the subscriber to a unique autoresponder with each.

I actually advocated creating a unique, QUALITY gift for each offer, and
in fact, offered two brand new recordings that I had recently done as
gifts... to show them that I did what I teach.

That not only taught them HOW to benefit from what I was recommending but
it also led to me having more people upgrade than the next three jv
partners COMBINED.

You see, my email suggesting that they participate, and telling them how
to build multiple lists at once, was also my call to action telling them
to take the upgrade. The fact that I had more upgrades than the next three
combine (who incidentally EACH referred more JV partners than I did) tells
me that I probably brough in a "higher quality" JV partner. I definitely
earned more money :-)

If you can actually TEACH the subscriber something while selling, giving
them a good reason to buy and use the product, you will make a lot more
sales from the same list.

That does improve my click-through rate, BUT I have sent emails out that
got such a low response rate that I checked a few things to confirm how
many emails actually went out.

So, I do think that over-all response rates are down... for some of us.

Willie

I think the "teach then sell" strategy works wonders.

A few weeks ago I did a promotion for Nano Continuity.

I sent one solo email simply selling the product and made a few sales, but nothing to get excited about.

Then on the next email a day later, I linked to a blog post of mine (it's actually the one in my signature) that educated my subscribers about how they can set up their own $500 per day revenue streams using NC and made three times as many sales.

I think this the way I'll always "sell" now.

James

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rickdearr

13 years ago

We all love to "run the numbers" to anticipate success. We are still in the wild west with the internet as a marketing platform.

When I used to run $50K magazine adds in MacWorld for my products, I knew the numbers for demographics, reach, etc... the only variable was my creative work, and I would not even get the results for 3 months (and I would have put another $150K on the line in between).

Willie you can literally call someone as a JV partner and see the results the same or next day... Until things settle down, which will be years, we just have to pick the best people we can, and do the best we can for each other to make things happen.

I think it's more about the offer, list, market match than ever before.

my two bits

rick

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PaulKlein

13 years ago

Willie,

You are one of the few I truly "look up" to, as there are more and more "marketers" coming along who are after some quick cash, use multiple aliases and cut and paste the same old hype.

I appreciate you shooting straight.

Really, too many newcomers who are honest enough in needing to make some money, whether to replace or supplement lost income, are being lead astray and using short-sighted marketing tricks.

I think James has a good point. Email marketing is only a small piece of the pie, and the trend is not too many people responding to that any longer.

Any of us can try to WAG about the points you make.

I think that if treated responsibly, a targeted smaller list who respect the list owner and lean on the advice and training from a true leader will gravitate toward buying from that leader, rather than the abused lists.

Keep up your great work!

Paul Klein

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Willie Crawford

13 years ago

I did neglect to mention the difference that bonuses can make
in conversion rates too.

The big launches DO raise awareness in the marketplace, and
at that point, the core product can become a commodity....
with the factor determining who gets the sale being who
offers the most attractive bonus.

However, that's another discussion entirely.

I don't guess bonuses really change response rates so much as
they change the offer.

Willie

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Champigny 13 years ago

Great thread, Willie! There's another factor at play these days too, and that's the double e-mail filtering - first as the e-mail gets to the ISP and then by the e-mail clients as they decide what hits the Inbox versus the Junk Mail folder.

Just recently I've had regular clients (buyers) write to say they weren't getting half of my e-mails, and two friends from the offline world ask why I'd stopped sending out an e-zine, as they hadn't received it in a couple of weeks...

As to the big vs small lists, it might be more accurate to think in terms of recent vs older lists. Recently-built lists will usually be smaller, but are mostly people currently active online. Judging by the drop in response on the older lists (without a corresponding drop in subscribers), it would seem a lot of people lost interest during the recession but still have their subscriptions coming in each day. Do you find, Willie, that your formerly-active buyers are still as responsive, or are your heaviest buyers these days less-familiar names?

Cheers,

DC.
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- Willie Crawford 13 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Champigny
  
  Do you find, Willie, that your formerly-active buyers are still as responsive, or are your heaviest buyers these days less-familiar names?
  
  Hi Doug,
  
  I do often send out offers that I think will appeal more to beginners,
  and am surprised by the number of old-timers who buy them. I guess
  that they are looking for things to give them even more of "that slight
  edge." I haven't really measured it but do make a high percentage of
  sales to familiar names.
  
  Willie
  
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Christian Little

13 years ago

This is exactly why we don't buy ads in mailing lists. Just because somebody tries to fluff up their list and say it's "warm" or "hot" or "active" or any other descriptor doesn't mean squat.

It's so relative, and a lot of the lists people are trying to sell ad space in are crap. I've joined about a dozen mailing lists from people just to gauge their quality when I was considering them for ad buys. Guess what? Every single one of them just throws a bunch of useless crap at the email address I gave them.

There is no way I would buy an ad in such a list, if you are just sending crap constantly to 50,000 subscribers frequently, the list is useless regardless of what you think.

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Willie Crawford

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Christian Little

This is exactly why we don't buy ads in mailing lists. Just because somebody tries to fluff up their list and say it's "warm" or "hot" or "active" or any other descriptor doesn't mean squat.

It's so relative, and a lot of the lists people are trying to sell ad space in are crap. I've joined about a dozen mailing lists from people just to gauge their quality when I was considering them for ad buys. Guess what? Every single one of them just throws a bunch of useless crap at the email address I gave them.

There is no way I would buy an ad in such a list, if you are just sending crap constantly to 50,000 subscribers frequently, the list is useless regardless of what you think.

That does raise the question of where you DO buy ads Christian?

I try lot of different sources, drop whats's a waste of time, and
ramp up what proves to work. I do prefer methods where the risk
is shared, such as JV's.

Willie

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Christian Little

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Willie Crawford

That does raise the question of where you DO buy ads Christian?

I try lot of different sources, drop whats's a waste of time, and
ramp up what proves to work. I do prefer methods where the risk
is shared, such as JV's.

Willie

That's something I wish I had a good answer to lol. We've tried ads with 7 sources in the past few months and had extremely poor results. But PPC isn't really an option because of how competitive our industry is ($5/click is common for most web hosting terms, the actual term "web hosting" goes to around $12/click if you have a perfect quality score, otherwise I've seen it up to $17/click for a 6/10 quality score).

So far I've only had 2 sources actually work out so far. One is a WSO we have here (in my sig), the other was blog I found and worked out a deal with the owner.

But yes, I highly prefer JV deals. If somebody is really aggressive about how quality their list is, then let them put their money where their mouth is. You said you'll guarantee 500 clicks? Fine, we'll do a JV where you get a portion of the revenue you generate for us.

Since our site has a conversion rate of about 3.5%, I know that if your list really does generate 500 clicks we'll convert about 18 accounts. That's about $1200 to you over the course of a year instead of the $100 you want up-front.

If they have a problem with that, then I usually just walk away. Them being reluctant to make 10-20x the money they are charging for the ad in the first place tells me they are lying about the quality of their list.

I understand people not liking a revshare situation, but if you really have a good list you'll actually walk away with way more cash than just a single ad buy would get you.

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Willie Crawford

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Christian Little

That's something I wish I had a good answer to lol. We've tried ads with 7 sources in the past few months and had extremely poor results. But PPC isn't really an option because of how competitive our industry is ($5/click is common for most web hosting terms, the actual term "web hosting" goes to around $12/click if you have a perfect quality score, otherwise I've seen it up to $17/click for a 6/10 quality score).

So far I've only had 2 sources actually work out so far. One is a WSO we have here (in my sig), the other was blog I found and worked out a deal with the owner.

But yes, I highly prefer JV deals. If somebody is really aggressive about how quality their list is, then let them put their money where their mouth is. You said you'll guarantee 500 clicks? Fine, we'll do a JV where you get a portion of the revenue you generate for us.

Since our site has a conversion rate of about 3.5%, I know that if your list really does generate 500 clicks we'll convert about 18 accounts. That's about $1200 to you over the course of a year instead of the $100 you want up-front.

If they have a problem with that, then I usually just walk away. Them being reluctant to make 10-20x the money they are charging for the ad in the first place tells me they are lying about the quality of their list.

I understand people not liking a revshare situation, but if you really have a good list you'll actually walk away with way more cash than just a single ad buy would get you.

I like your revenue share model.

I also outsource all of the PPC that I do because it requires
a lot of attention. I have put in hundreds of hours learning to
meticulously track everything but letting someone else do it is
more fun.

You may also want to look for people with huge audiences who just
don't know what they have. I find those every now and then...
hundreds of thousands of loyal followers and no back-end product :-)

Think an Ebay powerseller who has sold a single products to tons
of your ideal customers, and you just suggest a follow up offer
for your product. Finding them takes work but can make a
fortune.

I have clients who've sold over half a million books where the
biggest thing that I did was push them to put some type of
backend in place... one of my products if appropriate :-)

This is one that I flipped over: http://timic.org/760000
Over 760,000 copies of his book sold, and so I yelled and screamed
that he needed a back-end in place :-)

Done right, THIS is how you make millions with very little risk
or even effort... but I'm getting off-target.

Notice that this client is not in IM though, and does not have
a product that will be outdated a year from now, or 30 years
from now :-)

This stuff really can be fun!

Willie

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Christian Little

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Willie Crawford

I like your revenue share model.

I also outsource all of the PPC that I do because it requires
a lot of attention. I have put in hundreds of hours learning to
meticulously track everything but letting someone else do it is
more fun.

You may also want to look for people with huge audiences who just
don't know what they have. I find those every now and then...
hundreds of thousands of loyal followers and no back-end product :-)

Think an Ebay powerseller who has sold a single products to tons
of your ideal customers, and you just suggest a follow up offer
for your product. Finding them takes work but can make a
fortune.

The problem there is that pretty much anybody who operates a site in our market or in a related market has done their research or fallen prey to the "make money online" fad. Everybody who runs a site that we even look at expects a stupid amount of money.

Heck, I had one site contact me quoting me $4,000 for a single blog post. Their justification? They rank #1 for a ton of web hosting terms. No traffic stats were ever offered, and we even asked them for stats and they refused.

That was the most extreme case we've run into so far, but I've had a lot of site owners demanding an obscene amount of money for advertising to their audience and hardly any of them will talk to us when we start talking about rev sharing. They all want the cash up-front or on a CPA basis.

Originally Posted by Willie Crawford

I have clients who've sold over half a million books where the
biggest thing that I did was push them to put some type of
backend in place... one of my products if appropriate :-)

This is one that I flipped over: Making the Best of Basics | Family Preparedness Guide | James Talmage Stevens
Over 760,000 copies of his book sold, and so I yelled and screamed
that he needed a back-end in place :-)

Done right, THIS is how you make millions with very little risk
or even effort... but I'm getting off-target.

Notice that this client is not in IM though, and does not have
a product that will be outdated a year from now, or 30 years
from now :-)

This stuff really can be fun!

Willie

Hey, if you can help us get 760,000 customers I would pay you an obscene amount of money lol

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Willie Crawford

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Christian Little

....But PPC isn't really an option because of how competitive our industry is ($5/click is common for most web hosting terms, the actual term "web hosting" goes to around $12/click if you have a perfect quality score, otherwise I've seen it up to $17/click for a 6/10 quality score).

So far I've only had 2 sources actually work out so far. One is a WSO we have here (in my sig), the other was blog I found and worked out a deal with the owner.

But yes, I highly prefer JV deals. If somebody is really aggressive about how quality their list is, then let them put their money where their mouth is. You said you'll guarantee 500 clicks? Fine, we'll do a JV where you get a portion of the revenue you generate for us.

Since our site has a conversion rate of about 3.5%, I know that if your list really does generate 500 clicks we'll convert about 18 accounts. That's about $1200 to you over the course of a year instead of the $100 you want up-front. ....

Christian,

I still think that you answer may be some type
of joint venture (shared risk). I run a web hosting
company and it can be extremely competitive.

I try to get around that by not making my product just
a commodity.

Currently, I'm doing that by identifying customers
that I want to go after, and then designing hosting
packages specifically around them, and then partnering
with individuals who have the attention of those
audiences.

It is more work upfront, but I anticipate my
customers staying longer. Some of the backend tie-ins
"should" ensure that.

I'd also ask if your keywords aren't too narrow?
I'm sure that you've tested, but I'd go for 3-5
word phrases that those ready to buy would be using.

Willie

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tsuccess

13 years ago

I agree with Willie and many others on here. However, I don't see nothing wrong with asking for a click thru rate. Like mentioned earlier, hopefully the person isn't lying, that's something you obviously have to consider.

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Willie Crawford

13 years ago

Originally Posted by tsuccess

I agree with Willie and many others on here. However, I don't see nothing wrong with asking for a click thru rate. Like mentioned earlier, hopefully the person isn't lying, that's something you obviously have to consider.

It's an ok question, but only if considered in many contexts such as
did the people on the list know the owner of the recommended product?

Trust is very important anyway, and you should trust your instincts too.

willie

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Christian Little

13 years ago

Here's an example of an email I got today from one of these "warm" lists that I was testing:

Now if that was the only time this particular person had sent this kind of email, I'd probably be fine with it and just ignore it. But I went and checked through all the emails I got from this guy.

Since Jan 10, 2011 (the day I signed up). I have received 20 emails from this person.

Care to guess how many actually had useful content like they promised on their signup form?

NONE.

20 emails, all containing sales pitches for clickbank products. Nothing else.

Even the "thank you for signing up" email had a sales pitch for a CB product.

Yet this person is flocking how amazingly responsive their list is in the JV section here.

This is what bugs me about the people that are selling ads in their newsletters here. The list is crap since you're just sending this **** out without anything actually useful to your readers.

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drmani

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Christian Little

... but I've had a lot of site owners demanding an obscene amount of money for advertising to their audience and hardly any of them will talk to us when we start talking about rev sharing. They all want the cash up-front or on a CPA basis.

Hey, if you can help us get 760,000 customers I would pay you an obscene amount of money lol

Trouble is this:

Media owner says: "Give me money and I'll get you sales"

Product vendor says: "Get me sales and I'll give you money"

Each wants the *other* to go first!

Originally Posted by Christian Little

Since Jan 10, 2011 (the day I signed up). I have received 20 emails from this person...
20 emails, all containing sales pitches for clickbank products. Nothing else.

Even the "thank you for signing up" email had a sales pitch for a CB product.

Yet this person is flocking how amazingly responsive their list is in the JV section here.

And just because 20 emails pitch products doesn't automatically
make that style of publishing "unresponsive" (just saying).

Here's an excerpt from my email to my list today:

I've had some interesting feedback from subscribers lately.

Probably as many are new readers, who haven't been on my list
for more than a few weeks, they are expecting this experience
to be similar to what they've heard "gurus" advocating - or
what they personally believe to be the "best way" to run any
email list.

Well, it won't.

Because I've been doing this for over 14 years, and monitor
how well my style works (or not).

And because I have one thing above all else in my mind when
I send you email... and that is

YOUR Best Interest

That's why I don't mind a bit if anyone unsubscribes coz
I'm "always selling stuff".

But...

I mind a LOT if even a few tell me I'm selling JUNK!

Let's face it. We're all in business to make a difference.
To be more successful. To get higher efficiency from what
we do.

When I find a tool, a service, an article, a report, a
person, a resource, a network, anything that can give you
that vital edge over your competition...

I WILL Tell You About It

No, it won't matter to me that I emailed you a few hours
back about something else.

And no, it does NOT bother the thousands of others on my
list who receive such emails - because they know it's in
YOUR best interest to be informed about things that will
help your business grow.

But yes, there WILL be some folks who don't like this.

There's a link right down at the bottom for you, if you're
one of the few people who dislike being provided valuable
content and links and recommendations... it's for getting
off this list with one easy click.

I urge you to vote with your mouse - and click it.

Trying to satisfy and delight EVERY subscriber on your list
is a mug's game.

Allowing your list readers to self-select to continue to
be a subscriber makes a list VERY responsive indeed.

That's why I recently deleted close to 2,000 email addresses
from my database - because they didn't take ANY action on
my emails (not just 'buying' but even 'clicking and reading'
valuable content).

My 2 cents.

All success
Dr.Mani

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Christian Little

13 years ago

Originally Posted by drmani

Trouble is this:

Media owner says: "Give me money and I'll get you sales"

Product vendor says: "Get me sales and I'll give you money"

Each wants the *other* to go first!

Well that is the case a lot yes, but in many situations it's also the media owner knowing they've got crap but are trying to sell it as gold.

If somebody came to me and said "I've got a list of 10,000 subscribers that I'll email about your service and will guarantee 10 sales", then I would actually be ok with paying them the $100 on the grounds that if we don't get the 10 sales they guaranteed then we'd get our money back.

Simply put I'm tired of blowing money on something that looks nice but turns out to be crap.

Originally Posted by drmani

And just because 20 emails pitch products doesn't automatically
make that style of publishing "unresponsive" (just saying).

Fair enough, poor choice of words I suppose. The email list in question that I posted above claims they will offer weekly marketing tips and SEO tactics in their emails. I haven't seen either yet out of the 20 emails I got from them. To me that's a huge lie, they're not offering anything that's actually useful.

Originally Posted by drmani

Trying to satisfy and delight EVERY subscriber on your list
is a mug's game.

Allowing your list readers to self-select to continue to
be a subscriber makes a list VERY responsive indeed.

That's why I recently deleted close to 2,000 email addresses
from my database - because they didn't take ANY action on
my emails (not just 'buying' but even 'clicking and reading'
valuable content).

My 2 cents.

All success
Dr.Mani

Very few people actually prune their lists these days, which is pretty sad. It's better to take out non responsive subscribers than just let them inflate your list size. I would much rather work out a deal with a list owner of 1,000 responsive subscribers as opposed to a list owner of 5,000 nonresponsive subscribers.

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Willie Crawford

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Christian Little

Here's an example of an email I got today from one of these "warm" lists that I was testing:

Now if that was the only time this particular person had sent this kind of email, I'd probably be fine with it and just ignore it. But I went and checked through all the emails I got from this guy.

Since Jan 10, 2011 (the day I signed up). I have received 20 emails from this person.

Care to guess how many actually had useful content like they promised on their signup form?

NONE.

20 emails, all containing sales pitches for clickbank products. Nothing else.

Even the "thank you for signing up" email had a sales pitch for a CB product.

Yet this person is flocking how amazingly responsive their list is in the JV section here.

This is what bugs me about the people that are selling ads in their newsletters here. The list is crap since you're just sending this **** out without anything actually useful to your readers.

Yes, I subscribe to some of the same lists and even get asked to
promote some of the same products. It is a model that works for
them short-term but I'm certain that it burns the list out, and I
also don't care for most of the products.

willie

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