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Unread 11th December 2008, 11:57 PM   #51
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Default Re: Fun with math - the Arbitrage Conspiracy

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Originally Posted by Chris Lockwood View Post
How many 1 or 2 person operations make $36 million a year (not counting entertainers or athletes)?

The skepticism comes in when you calculate what this launch would bring in and compare it to what they are already supposedly making. Why go to the trouble just to make another 1-2 weeks income? Why not put that effort into doing more CPA stuff if it's so darn easy?
Leverage.

From 1000 students (1 million dollars profit after affiliate payments and costs) they may get 100 people who do really well and can pump volume through the CPA offers they are promoting.

If they have 100 people then 10 of them will probably be exceptional and of those 2 will be extreme.

This could make a big difference for them

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Unread 12th December 2008, 12:00 AM   #52
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Default Re: Fun with math - the Arbitrage Conspiracy

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Originally Posted by jrsencio View Post
Interesting point.
I no in these 'big money' threads that people tend to filter things the way they see the world.

People like Aymen do not see the world the same way.

Try and walk in his shoes. He loves helping people, he has talent and is very bright. He likes to broker deals.

Now he is meeting the CPA concept with people who want to learn it. Is that such a bad thing?

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Unread 12th December 2008, 12:06 AM   #53
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Default Re: Fun with math - the Arbitrage Conspiracy

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Originally Posted by dsiomtw View Post
That's bogus. Anyone with half a brain knows that 99.8% of people who buy this or any other course will not be "super successful" with it in the long run. To say that he is selling this course to train potential super affiliates for his own affiliate network is beyond stupid. Out of every 100 people buy this course, maybe 1 will have made any meaningful money 6 months later. Maybe 1 out of 1000 will become a real "super affiliate". If you are starting your own network you don't put on conferences and spend a ton of time developing and managing a product like this to train people to be your affiliates. Anyone with half a brain should see right through this. It's 110% pure BS.
about 79% of all businesses fail by the ten years mark (Startup Failure Rates — The REAL Numbers | Small Business Trends)

so you could be quite general and say that in LIFE many people do not reach full potential.

Who decides the portion that succeed? The customer. As long as the material is good don't blame the seller.

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Unread 12th December 2008, 12:07 AM   #54
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Default Re: Fun with math - the Arbitrage Conspiracy

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Originally Posted by freudianslip27 View Post
From my experience with CPA, I just can't see how you could make that much consistently day in and day out, on that level. As others mentioned, there just aren't that many offers out there, and when you find one that works for you, it may be a few days till its pulled and you have to find another.
Hey, their profit is twice what CJ did in total sales last year. Aren't you impressed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by freudianslip27 View Post
It seems as though there is this expectation that you will overhype your product in order for it to be successful.
I'm with you. I'd rather deal with more honest people whose numbers aren't so wildly questionable.

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Unread 12th December 2008, 12:30 AM   #55
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Default Re: Fun with math - the Arbitrage Conspiracy

OK, maybe I have the wrong definition in my mind of CPA, then. Because, as I understood it, if you were to bid on every item in the Home Depot catalog, that wouldn't be CPA - that would be affiliate marketing. If they buy something from Home Depot and you get a commission, that's affiliate marketing, and I even pointed out in my original post that I understand how affiliate marketing opportunities are almost limitless.

My understanding of CPA is that it's offers like mortgage refinancing, payday advance, acai trials, ringtone leads, etc. that are managed through networks like Hydra or Neverblue or XY7 or MaxBounty. In my experience, the variety of those that are available at any given time are significantly more limited than affiliate opportunities.

Now, if you are talking about setting up a lead capture of your own and selling those leads to businesses independently, to me that doesn't really fit the definition of CPA, either. That's more of an independent lead brokering business. Which is great, but it's not CPA.

So, is the definition of CPA that this course operates on wider than what I understand CPA to mean? If so, that explains some of the "fuzzy math" in my mind.

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Unread 12th December 2008, 12:40 AM   #56
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Default Re: Fun with math - the Arbitrage Conspiracy

This guy - from Arbitrage Conspiracy - is really taking as for idiots... I am sure that it is possible to make 100K/day, but I wouldn't pay almost $2000 until I see him making those $100K/day in front of me (screencast video or something...)
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Unread 12th December 2008, 12:44 AM   #57
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Default Did Jerry West Really Walk Out On "Arbitrage Conspiracy"?

I saw on John Chow a mention that Jerry West - a well-known PPC marketer and search engine optimizer walked out on the Vegas seminar.

Now, the following is not based on the course - so take it with a grain of salt and MAYBE some of these issues are covred in the course - so I wouldn't mind having someone address these issues:

There are extremely experienced marketer's like Jerry West telling people not to by the Arbitrage Conspiracy product and even told the guys at John Cow: 'Donít get sucked into the hype. It isnít real. I was there and I walked out after 40 minutes because the material was very basic.'

That's interesting - because if they do NOT cover one VITAL aspect of running CPA marketing - and that is keeping track of a huge inventory of CPA offer start and end dates and having an automatic way of starting a new offer when one expires you are going to go completely nuts.

My business partner and I run CPA offer through a large number of organic sites and we use an open source ad-serving solution called OpenX.org to manage that type of thing - although there are also commercial ad serving services like AdJuggler, AdSpeed, and AdButler to name a few.

One thing I don't agree with is that selling the course will bring about too much competition for the owners - that was something Charles Heflin from SEO2020 was saying. But the truth is that the amount of viable traffic for CPA offers is just enormous - and even if you use the ONE rudimentary trick of using domains as keywords they "revealed" (um, that trick has been revealed MANY times over the past several years - including by ME about 4 years ago. LOL) there are SO many ways to go about finding them that even in ONE market you could have hundreds of people "playing well" together - and there are man, many markets where CPA offers are findable - PLUS if you really want to you can work out deals with businesses in markets where they are NOT common.

So in my opinion all of this noise about "If it's so profitable why are they selling it?" is nonsense.

BUT I would also point out that certain CPA tricks are MUCH harder for people NEWER to PPC to pull off.

For example - I one ran a test on the "domains as keywords" technique on Adwords and discovered that often the NEWER advertisers are kind of screwed. Here's what I did:

I had a friend of mine who had advertised minimally on Adwords for about a year put in the EXACT Ad, Exact Offer, and Exact Keywords (match type, etc.) going to the EXACT same landing page (this was direct-linking) and what we discovered was very interesting and should be disheartening for anyone considering buying the the Arbitrage Conspiracy:

His minimum bids we're often between .50 to $1.00 per click while MINE for the EXACT same set up were between .15 - .30 per click!

In other words, it appears that Account History has a fairly major impact on bid prices in some (maybe many) cases.

Now, you can certainly build up a great account history - but that means that you'll probably have to WAIT until you can pull off some of the more profitable tricks such as the one "revealed" in the free Arbitrage Conspiracy trainingÖ(I'm not sure why I keep using "revealed" for that domains as keywords trick - it's almost like saying I've just discovered "THE INTERNET").

So I wouldn't call Arbitrage Conspiracy a scam, but I CANNOT recommend it - especially if you are not already an experienced marketer - and if you ARE then you'd probably know everything in the course from what I'm hearing from people like Jerry West.

Anyhow, here's some information about why Jerry West doesn't recommend the Arbitrage Conspiracy product:

Don't Buy The Arbitrage Conspiracy - I Was There In Vegas

I guess the one thing I would leave you with is - if you STILL plan to buy The Arbitrage Conspiracy system then look for a bonus or bonuses that cover one or all of the following:

* How to manage a huge volume of CPA offers.
* How to manage start and end dates of CPA offers.
* How to build a CPA affiliate "team".
* Strategies for establishing a high-quality Adwords Account

Paul Schlegel

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Unread 12th December 2008, 10:18 AM   #58
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Default Re: Fun with math - the Arbitrage Conspiracy

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Originally Posted by melanied View Post
OK, maybe I have the wrong definition in my mind of CPA, then. Because, as I understood it, if you were to bid on every item in the Home Depot catalog, that wouldn't be CPA - that would be affiliate marketing. If they buy something from Home Depot and you get a commission, that's affiliate marketing, and I even pointed out in my original post that I understand how affiliate marketing opportunities are almost limitless.

My understanding of CPA is that it's offers like mortgage refinancing, payday advance, acai trials, ringtone leads, etc. that are managed through networks like Hydra or Neverblue or XY7 or MaxBounty. In my experience, the variety of those that are available at any given time are significantly more limited than affiliate opportunities.

Now, if you are talking about setting up a lead capture of your own and selling those leads to businesses independently, to me that doesn't really fit the definition of CPA, either. That's more of an independent lead brokering business. Which is great, but it's not CPA.

So, is the definition of CPA that this course operates on wider than what I understand CPA to mean? If so, that explains some of the "fuzzy math" in my mind.
Think about this. lets imagine you have a CPA offer with MaxBounty for Homedepot.

Now to drive traffic to that offer you have campaigns using PPC to drive traffic directly to the offer.

To get a lot of traffic you might use every product in Home Depot as your bid terms.

This is why there is unlimited opportunity to send traffic to CPA offers .

Using segmentation and creativity with keyword research and then testing it you can dig up great campaigns.

This answers your question about limited offers. There may not be a lot of offers (there are) but the traffic is the bigger variable.

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Unread 12th December 2008, 10:28 AM   #59
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Default Re: Fun with math - the Arbitrage Conspiracy

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Originally Posted by James Schramko View Post
This is why there is unlimited opportunity to send traffic to CPA offers.
I can't agree with the word "unlimited". And even if there were unlimited opportunity to SEND traffic to CPA offers, there isn't unlimited opportunity to make money from them.

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Unread 12th December 2008, 10:30 AM   #60
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Default Re: Fun with math - the Arbitrage Conspiracy

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Originally Posted by James Schramko View Post
This answers your question about limited offers. There may not be a lot of offers (there are) but the traffic is the bigger variable.
Well, there are no LIMITS in my mind because if you're creative you can work with businesses and MAKE them.

James. You seem to have more information on this course than many here.

I'd be interested in you addressing some of the concerns I posted above.

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Unread 12th December 2008, 10:34 AM   #61
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Default Re: Fun with math - the Arbitrage Conspiracy

On a related note, for anyone trying to piece together the puzzle of CPA, if you've purchased membership to the Warrior Private Site, here's an article I wrote called CPA Arbitrage: How I Made 77,395 sales:

CPA Arbitrage - How I Made 77,395 Sales

My 2 cents on this discussion is this:

In order to want to tackle something online, I need an edge. My edge in the above article example was controlling/creating the offers and the ads to get higher response than the competition, which gave me a competitive advantage.

Without some advantage, if you have 500 people/buyers all trying to promote standard CPA offers using PPC in the same way, the competition for keyword bidding is fierce.

You need an advantage. With straight PPC advertising driving traffic to straight CPA offers and with essentially a level playing field for everyone trying to succeed at it, it's tough.

That doesn't mean there aren't people doing who aren't wildly successful, but they can't reveal their exact offers they're promoting or they'll be immediately knocked off by people copying them, so it's always up to you to experiment to find your own workable niche/offer... The question is how much money it costs before you stumble on to something that's profitable for you.

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Unread 12th December 2008, 10:40 AM   #62
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Default Re: Fun with math - the Arbitrage Conspiracy

Quote:
Originally Posted by TimGross View Post
On a related note, for anyone trying to piece together the puzzle of CPA, if you've purchased membership to the Warrior Private Site, here's an article I wrote called CPA Arbitrage: How I Made 77,395 sales:

CPA Arbitrage - How I Made 77,395 Sales

My 2 cents on this discussion is this:

In order to want to tackle something online, I need an edge. My edge in the above article example was controlling/creating the offers and the ads to get higher response than the competition, which gave me a competitive advantage.

Without some advantage, if you have 500 people/buyers all trying to promote standard CPA offers using PPC in the same way, the competition for keyword bidding is fierce.

You need an advantage. With straight PPC advertising driving traffic to straight CPA offers and with essentially a level playing field for everyone trying to succeed at it, it's tough.

That doesn't mean there aren't people doing who aren't wildly successful, but they can't reveal their exact offers they're promoting or they'll be immediately knocked off by people copying them, so it's always up to you to experiment to find your own workable niche/offer... The question is how much money it costs before you stumble on to something that's profitable for you.
That is great info. I had a wonderful campaign for a highly contested space but I did find that edge. The creative angle is usually a winner.

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Unread 12th December 2008, 10:53 AM   #63
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Default Re: Fun with math - the Arbitrage Conspiracy

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Originally Posted by melanied View Post
The thing that I don't quite understand is this - there are not an unlimited supply of CPA offers floating around at any given time like there are affiliate products.

Why would I want to jump into competing with all of the other students of this course over the few hundred CPA offers available at any given time?
The more competition, the more money to be made.

Would you want to go into a market with prospects that dont have money to buy what you're selling? Thats pointless.

Or do you want to go to a market where theres plenty of money being thrown around?

You just need to learn how to deal with competition, some people are afraid of it, and some look for it


Quote:
Originally Posted by melanied View Post
OK, maybe I have the wrong definition in my mind of CPA, then. Because, as I understood it, if you were to bid on every item in the Home Depot catalog, that wouldn't be CPA - that would be affiliate marketing. If they buy something from Home Depot and you get a commission, that's affiliate marketing, and I even pointed out in my original post that I understand how affiliate marketing opportunities are almost limitless.
CPA is cost per acquisition. You get a lead for an offer- you get paid, its that simple and its lead generation. Some people do it threw affiliate networks and some people will go straight to a company and do it.

CPA is affiliate marketing. Just because someone doesn't have to purchase something, doesn't mean its not "affiliate marketing".

Quote:
Originally Posted by melanied View Post
My understanding of CPA is that it's offers like mortgage refinancing, payday advance, acai trials, ringtone leads, etc. that are managed through networks like Hydra or Neverblue or XY7 or MaxBounty. In my experience, the variety of those that are available at any given time are significantly more limited than affiliate opportunities.
Those are examples of CPA. And it IS affiliate opportunities. Its a different model of affiliate marketing. Do you think you could convert more people if they had to fill in some quick info, or having to convert someone to buy a product?

Since you don't sell anything, CPA (lead gen.) is very lucrative. CPA is lead gen. and lead gen is lots, and lots, and lots, of money and has been around longer than the internet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by melanied View Post
Now, if you are talking about setting up a lead capture of your own and selling those leads to businesses independently, to me that doesn't really fit the definition of CPA, either. That's more of an independent lead brokering business. Which is great, but it's not CPA.

So, is the definition of CPA that this course operates on wider than what I understand CPA to mean? If so, that explains some of the "fuzzy math" in my mind.
If you're working with a company (affiliate) and you're doing advertising and marketing for them to capture leads- HOW is that not affiliate marketing? Same tree, different branch.


Quote:
Originally Posted by faxinator View Post
I can't agree with the word "unlimited". And even if there were unlimited opportunity to SEND traffic to CPA offers, there isn't unlimited opportunity to make money from them.
Your WEALTH is only limited by your MIND. Unlimited mind = unlimited wealth. Now, making 100k a day, to me, would be considered unlimited wealth (financial wise). A lot less would be considered "unlimited" wealth for me@!
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Unread 12th December 2008, 11:01 AM   #64
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Default Re: Did Jerry West Really Walk Out On "Arbitrage Conspiracy"?

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Originally Posted by markquinn View Post
I saw on John Chow a mention that Jerry West - a well-known PPC marketer and search engine optimizer walked out on the Vegas seminar.

Now, the following is not based on the course - so take it with a grain of salt and MAYBE some of these issues are covred in the course - so I wouldn't mind having someone address these issues:

There are extremely experienced marketer's like Jerry West telling people not to by the Arbitrage Conspiracy product and even told the guys at John Cow: 'Donít get sucked into the hype. It isnít real. I was there and I walked out after 40 minutes because the material was very basic.'

That's interesting - because if they do NOT cover one VITAL aspect of running CPA marketing - and that is keeping track of a huge inventory of CPA offer start and end dates and having an automatic way of starting a new offer when one expires you are going to go completely nuts.

My business partner and I run CPA offer through a large number of organic sites and we use an open source ad-serving solution called OpenX.org to manage that type of thing - although there are also commercial ad serving services like AdJuggler, AdSpeed, and AdButler to name a few.

One thing I don't agree with is that selling the course will bring about too much competition for the owners - that was something Charles Heflin from SEO2020 was saying. But the truth is that the amount of viable traffic for CPA offers is just enormous - and even if you use the ONE rudimentary trick of using domains as keywords they "revealed" (um, that trick has been revealed MANY times over the past several years - including by ME about 4 years ago. LOL) there are SO many ways to go about finding them that even in ONE market you could have hundreds of people "playing well" together - and there are man, many markets where CPA offers are findable - PLUS if you really want to you can work out deals with businesses in markets where they are NOT common.

So in my opinion all of this noise about "If it's so profitable why are they selling it?" is nonsense.

BUT I would also point out that certain CPA tricks are MUCH harder for people NEWER to PPC to pull off.

For example - I one ran a test on the "domains as keywords" technique on Adwords and discovered that often the NEWER advertisers are kind of screwed. Here's what I did:

I had a friend of mine who had advertised minimally on Adwords for about a year put in the EXACT Ad, Exact Offer, and Exact Keywords (match type, etc.) going to the EXACT same landing page (this was direct-linking) and what we discovered was very interesting and should be disheartening for anyone considering buying the the Arbitrage Conspiracy:

His minimum bids we're often between .50 to $1.00 per click while MINE for the EXACT same set up were between .15 - .30 per click!

In other words, it appears that Account History has a fairly major impact on bid prices in some (maybe many) cases.

Now, you can certainly build up a great account history - but that means that you'll probably have to WAIT until you can pull off some of the more profitable tricks such as the one "revealed" in the free Arbitrage Conspiracy trainingÖ(I'm not sure why I keep using "revealed" for that domains as keywords trick - it's almost like saying I've just discovered "THE INTERNET").

So I wouldn't call Arbitrage Conspiracy a scam, but I CANNOT recommend it - especially if you are not already an experienced marketer - and if you ARE then you'd probably know everything in the course from what I'm hearing from people like Jerry West.

Anyhow, here's some information about why Jerry West doesn't recommend the Arbitrage Conspiracy product:

Don't Buy The Arbitrage Conspiracy - I Was There In Vegas

I guess the one thing I would leave you with is - if you STILL plan to buy The Arbitrage Conspiracy system then look for a bonus or bonuses that cover one or all of the following:

* How to manage a huge volume of CPA offers.
* How to manage start and end dates of CPA offers.
* How to build a CPA affiliate "team".
* Strategies for establishing a high-quality Adwords Account

Paul Schlegel
Hi Paul,

Jerry was there for 40 Minutes. That is not really a long time. He is releasing his own program instead. If all these people know everything in the course i guess they would be doing it themselves. They would be in the minority.

I know he is a guru for SEO and affiliate marketing and I don't know if he does 50k a day with PPC so I don't really know what level he is judging it at.

Like you I use an ad server to manage offers. I don't know how Aymen will teach this but he does mention that he will show people how to track offers so you don't have to rely on the CPA company.

I posted my comments about Charles somewhere else in here. I think he is way off the mark.

Your test with ad words seems consistent with speculation about account rank. There are Yahoo and other PPC sources for people to utilize as well in the scaling phase.

I think many people would learn a thing or two about ppc and CPA from the course based on the quality of the expert (this has been well established now) and the fact that he has done some great results.

I am sure URLs have been out for awhile but there are still some more tricks like where to harvest keywords and how to get better ROI from optimizing campaigns.

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Unread 12th December 2008, 11:44 AM   #65
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Default Re: Fun with math - the Arbitrage Conspiracy

If you want to know if this is B.S or not, ask the Masked Guru. I'm told he was there.
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Unread 12th December 2008, 11:48 AM   #66
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Default Re: Fun with math - the Arbitrage Conspiracy

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If you want to know if this is B.S or not, ask the Masked Guru. I'm told he was there.
doesn't he usually create short reviews of products? I haven't seen anything yet..
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Unread 12th December 2008, 12:24 PM   #67
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Default Re: Fun with math - the Arbitrage Conspiracy

A few things about the AC. These may have been mentioned but I'm not sure since I did not read every post.

1. 100k in a single day I hear was there best day not what they make on avg.

2. I hear their actual profitable campaign ROI avg's between 20-35%

The guys are starting there own cpa network so releasing the product is pretty smart.

P.S. These guys were students of the Pay Per Click Formula and from what I hear there is alot of overlap. Also you can get the PPCF for like $500 for those interested in PPC to CPA who don't want to shell out 2 grand.
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Unread 12th December 2008, 12:38 PM   #68
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Default Re: Did Jerry West Really Walk Out On "Arbitrage Conspiracy"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by James Schramko View Post
Hi Paul,

Jerry was there for 40 Minutes. That is not really a long time. He is releasing his own program instead. If all these people know everything in the course i guess they would be doing it themselves. They would be in the minority.

I know he is a guru for SEO and affiliate marketing and I don't know if he does 50k a day with PPC so I don't really know what level he is judging it at.

Like you I use an ad server to manage offers. I don't know how Aymen will teach this but he does mention that he will show people how to track offers so you don't have to rely on the CPA company.

I posted my comments about Charles somewhere else in here. I think he is way off the mark.

Your test with ad words seems consistent with speculation about account rank. There are Yahoo and other PPC sources for people to utilize as well in the scaling phase.

I think many people would learn a thing or two about ppc and CPA from the course based on the quality of the expert (this has been well established now) and the fact that he has done some great results.

I am sure URLs have been out for awhile but there are still some more tricks like where to harvest keywords and how to get better ROI from optimizing campaigns.
Thanks James.

That does address most of the concerns.

Yes, there are an insane number of ways to harvest keywords - so teaching that
and how to THINK about finding other ways and automating the harvesting
and tracking as much as possible is key.

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Unread 12th December 2008, 12:41 PM   #69
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Default Re: Fun with math - the Arbitrage Conspiracy

I never got to the math. I've been scratching my head trying to figure out where the "conspiracy" is.

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Unread 12th December 2008, 12:42 PM   #70
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Default Re: Fun with math - the Arbitrage Conspiracy

Make sure you read all of the comments on Jerry's post. He adds more information there as well. Perhaps the real conspiracy behind "Arbitrage Conspiracy" is that it's over-hyped and over-valued.

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Unread 12th December 2008, 01:27 PM   #71
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Default Re: Fun with math - the Arbitrage Conspiracy

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Originally Posted by Mr. Write View Post
Anybody claiming to make that much money is a liar. Anybody who believes him is an even bigger fool.
lol...

I believe him.

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Unread 12th December 2008, 01:43 PM   #72
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Default Re: Fun with math - the Arbitrage Conspiracy

A couple points.

To the people who can't understand why someone would've paid $10k for the seminar...

It's not about the material. $10k is worth it network with EVERY MAJOR GURU in the industry. They were ALL there. (pretty much, except for Frank, and John Reese)

To the person who asked about what the major CPA networks are, here are some: Azoogle, Affiliate.com, Copeac, Neverblue, Incentaclick, Rocketprofit.

There are a TON of networks for a reason. They're making money hand over fist, and so are a LOT of affiliates.

People have barely cracked the surface of the available traffic that could be profitable for CPA networks. A lot of the tactics in this course are nothing new.

What I'm excited about is the information on scaling, and systemizing, so that I can take one of my campaigns making $25 or $50 or $100 a day, and scale it up to 10x or 100x the return.

Say what you will about these guys, but as was stated, they were PPC/PPV Formula students, and Gauher sent out an email where he backed up their claims, because he was getting 2% referral checks on their HUGE income from some of the networks.

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Unread 12th December 2008, 02:07 PM   #73
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It's not about the material. $10k is worth it network with EVERY MAJOR GURU in the industry. They were ALL there. (pretty much, except for Frank, and John Reese)
So true. Some people don't understand the power of networking.

A very successful entrepreneur said-

"You're NET-WORTH is only as big as your NETWORK"

He's not lying!
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Unread 12th December 2008, 02:54 PM   #74
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Default Re: Fun with math - the Arbitrage Conspiracy

Re: CJ's revenues...

CJ is part of ValueClick, and is expected to contribute nearly $100 million dollars to their bottom line this year (ValueClick's total revenue is about $650 million).

And remember, that $100 million is just their take, they are responsible for $200 - $300 million of commissions and well over a billion dollars in sales.

Jonathan

For God's sake, who approved this?
www.TrafficEvolution.com/free
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Unread 12th December 2008, 06:28 PM   #75
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Default Re: Fun with math - the Arbitrage Conspiracy

Those responses clear up some of the mystery in my mind, I suppose. I've moved from "skeptical" to "no opinion."

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Unread 14th December 2008, 06:59 PM   #76
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Default Re: Fun with math - the Arbitrage Conspiracy

Hiya

I think this post kinda sums up what Chris Rempel was saying...

Why Chris Rempel Is Quickly Becoming One Of My Favorite Internet Marketers

That's some job satisfaction in abundance right there...

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Unread 14th December 2008, 07:27 PM   #77
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Default Re: Fun with math - the Arbitrage Conspiracy

When you make as much money as the Arbitrage people claim (and it's probably true), you really really have to know what you're doing. They can afford to pay a whole lot of people to re-search and dig and tunnel and work out the maths. It seems more like gambling to me. You're gambling on how many people are going to click on your ad so you can recover the cost of your advertising on the top keywords. So you make $6000 but invest $4000. OK it's a profit but are you willing to take the chance?
I'll use other ways to make money before I tackle that baby.
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Unread 14th December 2008, 08:12 PM   #78
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Default Re: Fun with math - the Arbitrage Conspiracy

According to a thread in another Warrior Forum, the e-mails from the Arbitrage support desk says they are being slammed with refund requests and those seeking refunds need to be patient.

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Unread 14th December 2008, 10:41 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marcanthony View Post
It's not B.S. at all...

I believe that the guy behind the program is planning on starting his own CPA network...

So he hooked up with some guru's that have large lists...

If enough people actually decide to implement what they learn using his product... He will be able to start his own CPA network with a large group of affiliates that are already sold on his methods.

That's why he would be willing to give the info away.

It may seem crazy to some of you but - there are people that make even more than $100,000 per day.

This dudes story is totally believable... there is no way that he would have gotten the testimonials that he got from Eben Pagen, Mike Filsaime, and so on - if he wasn't legit.
I am amazed that take the testimonial of one guru endorsing another. The point is when I decide to make a buying decision based on a testimonial, the person who is making the testimonial has to be a buyer themself. I never buy products from gurus who have other gurus splashed over their salespages. The whole thing wreaks of a conspiracy. A conspiracy to defraud!

When I start making $100,000 a day in internet marketing, I won't be launching $1997 courses; I'll be investing in internet start-ups in silicon valley.

I suppose your going to tell us all that 'you' earn over $50,000 a day too - haha!
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Unread 14th December 2008, 10:44 PM   #80
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Default Re: Fun with math - the Arbitrage Conspiracy

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I am amazed that take the testimonial of one guru endorsing another.
I'm not that familiar with the product, but didn't I read that other "gurus" were offered some incentive?

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Unread 14th December 2008, 11:20 PM   #81
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Default Re: Fun with math - the Arbitrage Conspiracy

I think tons of people are asking for refunds because they haven't even launched the product yet. Once you pay you don't get jack squat. The real "training" doesn't begin until January according to their latest email. Supposedly they are sending out some basic "get started" stuff sooner than that, but as of yet anyone who has paid their $1997 hasn't gotten anything. The product probably doesn't even exist yet. The whole thing stinks and I'm sure it's blowing up in their faces.

I'm just shocked at all the big name gurus that staked their reputations on this load of crap launch.
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Unread 14th December 2008, 11:48 PM   #82
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I am amazed that take the testimonial of one guru endorsing another. The point is when I decide to make a buying decision based on a testimonial, the person who is making the testimonial has to be a buyer themself. I never buy products from gurus who have other gurus splashed over their salespages. The whole thing wreaks of a conspiracy. A conspiracy to defraud!

When I start making $100,000 a day in internet marketing, I won't be launching $1997 courses; I'll be investing in internet start-ups in silicon valley.

I suppose your going to tell us all that 'you' earn over $50,000 a day too - haha!
The price of the course is irrelevant - the reason that he released Arbitrage Conspiracy is because Aymen is planning on starting his own CPA network - and what better way to create a buzz and make money for it than releasing his product.

The point I was making about the guru testimonials was that they have nothing to gain for vouching for this guy.

And, trust me - whether or not I make $50,000 a day... I would never waste my time trying to convince you of it.

For all you know - I could be a multi-billionaire...

Dude... save your corny little "ha, ha, ha's" for someone else - this forum is for adults...
 
Unread 15th December 2008, 12:41 AM   #83
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Default Re: Fun with math - the Arbitrage Conspiracy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Write View Post
Anybody claiming to make that much money is a liar. Anybody who believes him is an even bigger fool.
so theres nobody in this whole world that that doesnt earn 18million per year.

ever heard of oprah donald trump or warren buffet, These are just some of the more common names there are many people who earn way more than 18m per year

Some people just dont believe it is possible to make money, and with those limiting beliefs they will never find out for themselves. here read this The world's billionaires: A dime a dozen - International Herald Tribune

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Unread 15th December 2008, 12:58 AM   #84
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Default Re: Fun with math - the Arbitrage Conspiracy

The 100K conference isn't what caught in my mind - what I wonder about is why anyone who can already make money at a rate that they can afford to spring 10 Gs at a one day conference would even need to attend a money making conference? What kind of bucks is a person with that kind of cash to throw around already making? How much money do people need to be happy anymore?

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Unread 15th December 2008, 01:00 PM   #85
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Default Re: Fun with math - the Arbitrage Conspiracy

The Arbitrage Conspiracy free report tells you, in general terms, that you can pay for PPC (pay per click, like Google AdWords) to promote your affiliate landing pages offered by CPA (Cost per Acquisition) Companies, and the "arbitrage" part comes from the difference between your investment (what you had to spend in PPC) and your prize (what the CPA companies pay you for the action made by the visitor you sent).

Then, the idea is that if you find a successful combination (PPC --> CPA) then you would add up some leverage, investing more and more into that profitable one.

I would have loved to buy the course, because it is apparently proved that this guy makes over between $50K and $100K every day, so he must really know what he's doing. The price of the full 12 week course is $1997.

You can get the free report at arbitrageconspiracy.eu
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Unread 15th December 2008, 01:24 PM   #86
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Default Re: Fun with math - the Arbitrage Conspiracy

The way i see it Aymen had the perfect plan. He invites some of the top Gurus, which most of them are in the same Mastermind group with each other. then he puts a price tag for some of the unknown guys. Then all the gurus promote as affiliates to their lists cashing in on a 2k product commissions. Aymen is cool because sudenly everybody is talking about him. The gurus get their commissions and possibly learned something they didn't know. It's just business! I really don't think they are lying but it's a business. They want to help people and they want to get rich doing it.

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Unread 15th December 2008, 01:41 PM   #87
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Default Re: Fun with math - the Arbitrage Conspiracy

Quote:
Originally Posted by lovecostarica View Post
The Arbitrage Conspiracy free report tells you, in general terms, that you can pay for PPC (pay per click, like Google AdWords) to promote your affiliate landing pages offered by CPA (Cost per Acquisition) Companies, and the "arbitrage" part comes from the difference between your investment (what you had to spend in PPC) and your prize (what the CPA companies pay you for the action made by the visitor you sent).

Then, the idea is that if you find a successful combination (PPC --> CPA) then you would add up some leverage, investing more and more into that profitable one.

I would have loved to buy the course, because it is apparently proved that this guy makes over between $50K and $100K every day, so he must really know what he's doing. The price of the full 12 week course is $1997.

You can get the free report at arbitrageconspiracy.eu

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Unread 15th December 2008, 01:56 PM   #88
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Default Re: Fun with math - the Arbitrage Conspiracy

>>>
I was reading the sales letter for the Arbitrage Conspiracy today. The guy claims to make 50k to 100k per day
>>>

thats where i stopped reading and burst out in BIG LAUGH.

That "dude" certainly needs to sell his product, otherwise, how could he make a living with only 100k/day. I feel sorry for him.

Also..the title "Arbitrage Conspiracy" implies already junk of the uttermost "IM semi scam"- garbage category...and i dont even need/want to see the sales page and for sure not the product. The title is enough to give me that impression, and the "100k/day" claim ist just the topping on that pile of ****

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Unread 15th December 2008, 02:09 PM   #89
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Default Re: Fun with math - the Arbitrage Conspiracy

GeorgR you might think that since your mind probably cant concieve that amount of success. But...let me ask you something

Why do people like Trump, Gates etc... held private high ticket seminars at some point in their life?
A few years ago Trump invited some big business owners from the Dubai area to a seminar to "teach" them some of his marketing strategies and stuff...the seminar was not made public almost at all, and it costed 80.000$ per seat.

Now...why would Trump ask that amount of money eh? Since he does like what $1mil/day or something?

There are ppl in the adult industry that make MUCH more than that per day...now why would you not believe that he could make 100k/day?

Another thing...I don't think business men like Eben Pagan and Filsaime would risk their reputation to promote some scam or something....
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Unread 15th December 2008, 02:17 PM   #90
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Default Re: Fun with math - the Arbitrage Conspiracy

There are at least two challenges to overcome for anyone selling something like this. From the readers point of view:

1. Am I being told the truth here?
2. If it is the truth, can I do it too if I buy the course?

It seems like this one is stuck on #1 in many minds. Even if something is true, not everyone will believe. Heck , we still have those who think the Apollo moon program was a hoax and that the world is flat.

I believe in Eban, Mike Filisaime, Frank Kern, etc. and that they are making big money. Can I do it with their courses? That is a whole nother story. Just because I buy a book on flying doesn't mean I can pilot Air Force One.

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Unread 15th December 2008, 02:31 PM   #91
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Default Re: Fun with math - the Arbitrage Conspiracy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Ames View Post
Heck, we still have those who think the Apollo moon program was a hoax and that the world is flat.
The world clearly isn't flat. As for the authenticity of the Apollo mission, I think it's certainly in Capricorn One territory

Why is it so hard for so many here to believe that someone can pay, say, $50G on direct advertising and double his money in a day? I just don't understand all of the kerfuffle. Its exactly the same thing that so many here and everywhere else are doing everyday...only scaled. It's scaled up in relation to many internet marketers' activities, but also, scaled down in relation to the daily adspend of countless household name brands in mainstream vertical markets.

Of course it is possible. Case closed. Conspiracy over.

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Unread 15th December 2008, 02:41 PM   #92
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Default Re: Fun with math - the Arbitrage Conspiracy

How much profits they make per day?
And how much did they invest per day?
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Unread 15th December 2008, 02:42 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by faxinator View Post
According to a thread in another Warrior Forum, the e-mails from the Arbitrage support desk says they are being slammed with refund requests and those seeking refunds need to be patient.
Actually, it didn't say refund requests. It said support requests. The person who posted the email was looking for a refund. That doesn't mean that all support requests were for refunds.

That said, I wouldn't be shocked if they're getting more refund requests than the typical launch.

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Unread 15th December 2008, 02:42 PM   #94
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Default Re: Fun with math - the Arbitrage Conspiracy

The biggest conspiracy is that there is no conspiracy.

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Unread 15th December 2008, 02:46 PM   #95
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Default Re: Fun with math - the Arbitrage Conspiracy

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Actually, it didn't say refund requests. It said support requests. The person who posted the email was looking for a refund. That doesn't mean that all support requests were for refunds.
Ok, thanks for the clarification. I read what the other poster had put in his post, which was:

We are working through our support requests and will refund your account as soon as possible. Please bear with us as we are receiving an enormus amount of requests. We will get your refund processed.

Arbitrage Customer Support

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Unread 15th December 2008, 02:52 PM   #96
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Quote:
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What kind of bucks is a person with that kind of cash to throw around already making?

How much money do people need to be happy anymore?
Perhaps a sum = the amount of self righteousness those who question the happines of others need to feel.

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Unread 20th December 2008, 03:34 AM   #97
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Poeple who trade don't do it for the money. They LOVE trading.

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Unread 20th December 2008, 03:55 AM   #98
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Default Re: Fun with math - the Arbitrage Conspiracy

They claim what they're claiming and charge what they're charging so that people will get curious, annoyed, peeved, admiring, etc., etc., enough so that they'd grumble, complain, mumble, lash out, etc., etc., on public forums so that lots more people would be talking, lashing, grumbling, etc., etc., about them so that even more people....

Hehehe.
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