Help, this one question I can't seem to figure out the answer

26 replies
Let me preface this to say that this will most likely be a long post...

I've been a member on WF for a long long time. I just read and learn and sift through more and more posts.

So here is my problem or the question that has plagued me for years. I have a bunch of sites and domains. Most of them bring in very little money, some with adsense, some are affiliate sites, and then there are ones that sell my own product/service. I can rank fine on page 1 of google for the search terms I have been targeting, however there's not enough people searching those terms to make it profitable.

So here is my first example. I am an artist by trade, I paint ceiling murals of the night sky and my site Starscapes® Ceiling Murals by Maryland Artist ranks fine for the term "ceiling murals" or "starscapes" or whatever combination that relates to stars on ceiling or star painting, etc. I think I follow most of the SEO rules for my site and pages but the problem is that there's not a lot of people who are searching specifically for those keywords in my local area. But those keywords are what I offer, what my product and services are.

For awhile, I was building subpages within my domain that relate to other areas like stress relieving or kids rooms or relaxation or even tray ceilings hoping that maybe people who are searching for those things may discover my site. But I noticed in my stats that those pages never really get found, at least not by organic means. I link them within the site and some people may wander there as they are clicking through. I am wondering if maybe having them on the same domain is not really feeding visitors to my site like I had hoped. But I'm not sure if creating a bunch of different sites that target other related keywords like Home Theatre ideas or kids room decor ideas would be a better solution.

I've run ads on Craig's List, had print advertisement made, went out and canvassed neighborhoods with flyers, I've even created a link exchange page on my site hoping people would find me that aren't specifically looking for ceiling murals.

I know there are a lot of ace marketers on this forum, please give me some suggestions on how to get more exposure and get my site in front of the people who may appreciate my art and want to buy my murals. I am feeling so lost, like I'm spinning my wheels with the marketing. My product is good, my service is good, I've been at it for over 7 years, I think people just don't know what I do exists. HELP!

And it's the same question I have with one of my affiliate sites promoting this product I love and have been using since 2007: My In Depth Tooth Soap Review . I can rank fine on the first page of google for my main keywords "tooth soap" or "tooth soap review" but the only people who find my site are those searching for those two keywords and there's not that many who are searching daily for them. I make a little money with that site but I feel that somehow it could be a lot better by introducing the product to people with related teeth problems that hasn't heard about tooth soap. But how do I get it in front of those people? Do I build separate sites? Do I just blog about separate topics and hope people will find it?

I have some experience with building sites and applying SEO and doing wordpress but my problem I think is choosing the right keywords, the ones from people searching that are eager to buy or at least be looking to buy a related product to their search. I feel like I'm sitting on a goldmine but I can't dig up the gold. Do I not have the right tools? Maybe I don't dig hard enough or long enough or fast enough or maybe I need to shift over 3 feet. It's very frustrating, I feel lost. Please someone give me some guidance, I would very much appreciate it.

Oh, I own both market samurai and micro niche finder so I've been using them to search for keywords and competition, etc. I just feel like I'm missing something that perhaps is right in front of my face and I can't see it.

Thanks for reading, I warned that it would be long...

Jean
#answer #figure #question
  • Profile picture of the author yarseffect
    Long Question but short answer maybe have you tried using youtube?
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    • Profile picture of the author ideallife
      Originally Posted by yarseffect View Post

      Long Question but short answer maybe have you tried using youtube?
      I have seen other people using youtube but I'm not really sure how to make a video for what I do, other than maybe a bunch of still shots since videotaping in the dark to see the stars doesn't really show very well. Thanks for the suggestion, I'll put it on my list.
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      • Profile picture of the author Bluestarace
        Originally Posted by ideallife View Post

        I have seen other people using youtube but I'm not really sure how to make a video for what I do, other than maybe a bunch of still shots since videotaping in the dark to see the stars doesn't really show very well. Thanks for the suggestion, I'll put it on my list.
        I don't know if it's going to help or not but going back to the YouTube idea, what if you record yourself painting the murals (in hd)? You said that a lot of people don't know about it, so maybe that might ignite some interest.
        What do you think?
        And have your website link (or contact info) in the description box.
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        • Profile picture of the author Ralph Moore
          It sounds like you have done a lot of things correctly. I think you just need to expand on what you are doing.

          Search engines do not rank sites so much as they rank pages.

          If your goal is to help people who would enjoy access to your products to find them, then you need to use a search tool to discover all of the possible phrases that may relate to your products and write an individual page about each phrase or term which has a decent amount of search volume.

          Each page needs to point to your main page using anchor text for the keyword phrase which is emphasized in that page. That helps to build the importance of your website as it relates to all of the web pages on the site.

          Your ceiling tiles or panels are a form of art so you could be writing about the history of ceiling art, and a whole lot more.

          One thing I noticed about your pricing page is that it has WAY too many variables for someone to sift through to figure out what it would cost to order a painting for their special room.

          You could also write about, blog about, Squidoo about, Pinterest about, guest comment about, YouTube about, etc., etc. how one of your custom designs could BENEFIT someone in say, their man cave, child's room, etc.

          The first thing I thought about when I read tooth soap (which I have never heard of) is that it must be an alternative to toothpaste.

          If that is the case, then you should have web pages that highlight the benefits of the product like toothpaste alternative, replace toothpaste, or any phrases like sensitive gums, painful teeth, whatever and any other form of promotion like videos, etc.

          I hope that helps.
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  • Profile picture of the author Intermission
    You might try trade shows to get your mural service in front of your local market. Also try approaching paint stores, or decorating stores and see if they would let you put up flyers, or better yet, hand out your flyer with some of their own marketing materials. You may have to pay them... I'm brainstorming for you.

    Otherwise, for your own site and the affiliate sites, do guest blogging and forum posting. Relevant dental or health blogs and forums might bring you more and targeted traffic for the tooth soap, for instance.
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    • Profile picture of the author SamuelJ
      I know it's obvious but are you building links to internal pages?

      What else do the clients you already have do or are interested in,
      in their homes when you do a job?

      you will find there is a common thread, put pages up for these things.
      (Sorry i don't know your market)
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      • Profile picture of the author ideallife
        Originally Posted by SamuelJ View Post

        I know it's obvious but are you building links to internal pages?

        What else do the clients you already have do or are interested in,
        in their homes when you do a job?

        you will find there is a common thread, put pages up for these things.
        What do you mean building links to internal pages? Like getting backlinks to other pages besides the main one?

        I think I understand what you mean about "common thread" like I've done ceilings for home theatre rooms and I guess I could build a subsection on all things involved in constructing a home theatre. The problem with that is geographical location. Since my product is a more local product, I want to find a way to appeal to those who live in Maryland and neighboring states. I have no idea what people in the area are searching for that would make them interested in my murals. Thanks for your reply, I'll give it more thought on building related pages.
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    • Profile picture of the author ideallife
      Originally Posted by Intermission View Post

      You might try trade shows to get your mural service in front of your local market.... I'm brainstorming for you.

      ...do guest blogging and forum posting....
      Funny you should say that, I actually spent the last few hours answering questions on yahoo answers on bad breath and gum issues with a link in the source to my website. I will seek out more blogs and forums as you suggested too. I have in the past put out flyers at stores and around town, sometimes even give the store coupons where they say courtesy of such and such store for 10% off on my murals. I have spent thousands of dollars on various forms of print advertising, kids magazines, home decor magazines, small ads, I have no more money to spend on those forms. Just want to find lower cost methods now. I'll seek out the blog comment posting and see where it goes. Thanks!
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  • Profile picture of the author iamsuccor
    Consider installing an extension called SEO Site Tools. (I use it in Chrome, I don't know if they make it for any other browser or not.) There is a section called Suggestions. I like it because it tells you what is good, what is okay, and makes suggestions for what it considers bad.

    I roamed around your site and inspected several of the pages. You should do the same, you may be surprised.
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    • Profile picture of the author ideallife
      Originally Posted by iamsuccor View Post

      Consider installing an extension called SEO Site Tools. (I use it in Chrome, I don't know if they make it for any other browser or not.) There is a section called Suggestions. I like it because it tells you what is good, what is okay, and makes suggestions for what it considers bad.

      I roamed around your site and inspected several of the pages. You should do the same, you may be surprised.
      Ok, thanks, I'll go find it now and install it on Chrome.
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  • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
    I don't want to seem harsh but I honestly think
    you're in a very low volume market. I just can't
    see there ever being a big market of people who
    want star-scapes painted on their ceilings.

    Have you tried working with local interior decorators
    and related professionals?

    Tsnyder
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    • Profile picture of the author ideallife
      Originally Posted by Tsnyder View Post

      I don't want to seem harsh but I honestly think
      you're in a very low volume market. I just can't
      see there ever being a big market of people who
      want star-scapes painted on their ceilings.

      Have you tried working with local interior decorators
      and related professionals?

      Tsnyder
      It's not harsh, you are right. What I do and offer is a very specialized product/service. I don't expect the masses to jump in and want it but the dozens of folks I've painted for over the last 7 years do show there are some interest. Most people have never heard of it or really grasp what the actual mural looks like in real life. I have tried to contact local interior designers, most I never hear back from. A couple of them I had exchange sample boards with along with brochures and business cards. Nothing came from those. I've talked to real estate agents too and have had my brochures in model homes as well. I've even donated several murals to silent auctions for charities that was related to kids. I've even turned my black car into a night scene with reflective white stars all over it with my URL on the back of my car. It looks amusing and it gets people's attention but I've only had one new customer from that so far. I've even tried in the past to contact some boutique hotels and b&b places locally about doing murals in their rooms but I can't seem to get in the door anywhere to talk to the person in charge. *sigh*
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  • Profile picture of the author JamesMSpacey
    I think some things are more suited to internet marketing than others. My first thought when I was getting into your post was that this doesn't sound like the kind of thing people would be shopping online for.

    I think Tsnyder has the right idea. I'd say you should go for more of a networking approach to promoting your murals.
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    • Profile picture of the author ideallife
      Originally Posted by JamesMSpacey View Post

      I think some things are more suited to internet marketing than others. My first thought when I was getting into your post was that this doesn't sound like the kind of thing people would be shopping online for.

      I think Tsnyder has the right idea. I'd say you should go for more of a networking approach to promoting your murals.
      Most of the customers I have had did come from the internet. I know that may defy logic but it's true. Usually it's because they are searching for the same idea of what I offer. I did join the local chamber of commerce for a year and would go to their brunch events but nothing came from that either. It was more of other people promoting their services to me. I've set up booths at the local babies r us too and it's a lot of lookers, not much takers. I'll keep working on new ideas...I guess I'm looking for something I haven't tried. Thanks for your comment.
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  • Profile picture of the author iamsuccor
    Have you tried Google Places yet? Sorry no link, I don't have enough post yet.

    It's free btw.
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  • Profile picture of the author Susanrh
    Hi, Your ceiling starscapes sound lovely and I love the idea of your car decorated with glowing stars!
    I think your target market is parents of young children, so I suggest targetting local schools and nurseries. If they have spring /Christmas fundraising fairs etc where you can book a stall, attend as many as you can. Network with parent groups often if you can get one sale in such a group others will follow.
    Encourage satisfied customers to show all their friends their new ceilings and make sure they have a supply of your business cards or brochures to hand out.
    County or country fairs and craft fairs and local markets would be good too - especially if you can take your decorated car. Take names and addresses if people are interested and make sure you follow up.
    This is definitely a business where you have to get out and demonstrate your product and talk to people about it.
    Good luck.

    Susan
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    • Profile picture of the author ideallife
      Originally Posted by Susanrh View Post

      Hi, Your ceiling starscapes sound lovely and I love the idea of your car decorated with glowing stars!
      I think your target market is parents of young children, so I suggest targetting local schools and nurseries. If they have spring /Christmas fundraising fairs etc where you can book a stall, attend as many as you can. Network with parent groups often if you can get one sale in such a group others will follow.
      Encourage satisfied customers to show all their friends their new ceilings and make sure they have a supply of your business cards or brochures to hand out.
      County or country fairs and craft fairs and local markets would be good too - especially if you can take your decorated car. Take names and addresses if people are interested and make sure you follow up.
      This is definitely a business where you have to get out and demonstrate your product and talk to people about it.
      Good luck.

      Susan
      Thanks for the ideas Susan, I'll put them on my list. I've been trying to figure out a way to construct a display that I can set up and break down by myself easily and be visually appealing, it would go a long way in doing those events since it's near impossible to "see" the stars in a bright atmosphere.
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  • Profile picture of the author clever7
    There is a fierce competition online in all fiends. Of course, there is always something else you could do to improve your business and get more traffic. However, the truth is that you have to be patient, build confidence, become known, and mainly, beat all the competition in order to really make money online.

    Don’t feel frustrated because you are not having the positive results you desire. Everything is hard in the beginning, and the beginning can be quite long.
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  • Profile picture of the author JohnMauldin
    I have contracted with numerous companies over 3 decades in developing compelling marketing campaigns for them. I recall two clients who have similar interests. One painted murals for thoroughbred arabian horses and the other marketed fish and giant aquariums. Both used postcards with illustrations that were so compelling, takers would keep them around for months or even years in some instances and the cards consistently drew business. Most were distributed at malls handed out by a couple of students.
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  • Profile picture of the author dalegolden
    As you are following all the SEO rules and still not getting enough results because your keyword does not have enough search volume. In these cases, social media marketing can you help you the most. The use of facebook will be fantastic. Build a page of Mural painting. Invite people to like the page. Post attractive paints regularly. All in all, try to build a community. It will help you to make your product popular.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mikefeng
    Help bump the thread and leart something useful at the same time
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  • Profile picture of the author Don Schenk
    Hi ideallife,

    Sorry, this will be a long reply, but I hope there are some interesting and helpful ideas in here for you and for others reading this.

    As you and others have mentioned you have a unique product with an extremely small potential customer base.

    The people who have hired you to paint Starscapes® would know others who would want the same. I know it can sound like begging, but you must ask again and again for referrals.

    Susanrh is right on target with her suggestion to go to places where parents of young children are.

    Fortuantely you have tried some other advertising venues, but did you do them over and over?

    It is difficult to take rejection, but sometimes that is what "selling" is all about - reaching enough people over and over and over and over.

    Depending upon to whom you listen, it takes anywhere from 7 to 15 contacts with people to get a sale. Dan Kennedy says it takes 11 times.

    People are not instantly ready to buy the first time they hear about a product or service. It might take a year or more before they realize they want what you sell.

    You have unique product. Do you have a unique way to describe it, a way that makes people want it?

    You have tried to create joint ventures with interior designers, but did you go back to talk with them every two weeks to remind them to sell your service? How much commission did you offer them for "selling" your service to clients?

    Selling, both face to face, and by using written copy is a developable skill. No one is born knowing how to sell. There are excellent books written about it. Read Tm Hopkins.

    What other "art" skills can you develop to add to your Starscapes®. BTW, I see you have registered a trademark of the name. Good for you. I know it's expensive. I heard a patent and trademark attorney explain that it is "not proper" to use a ® without having actually registered it. I'm not a lawyer and haven't a clue.

    Oh wait, I see Starscapes® is a franchise out of Arizona. Do you have photos of any ceilings you have painted? Can you add them to your website?

    Joe Girard is listed in the Guinness Book Of World Records as being the best salesman of all times. What he did to keep his customers referring others to him was to contact every customer every month by mailing a postcard saying he liked working with them, and asking for referrals.

    Read the "Ultimate Sales Letter" book by Dan Kennedy, then rewrite your review site about tooth soap. That book will teach you how to write effective letters, web pages, postcards, hand-outs, and even your wording to use when you approach other business about recommending your services.

    People are not buying products or services (tooth soap or Starscapes). They are buying whatever emotional benefit they feel they get from making that purchase.

    Obviously not everyone is in want of a star covered ceiling, but they might buy faux painting - everything from a marble look to scumbling paint.

    Have you tested pricing? Pricing too low makes people not trust the quality, pricing way too high narrows the market. I had not seen Ralph's post when I wrote this. I'll go look at your prices.

    Your local media - radio, TV, newspapers, local entertainment tabloid - are all, always on the lookout for something different and interesting to write about. Send press releases to all of them and to media in any near-by cities or towns. Send releases repeatedly. Remember it takes 11 "touches" to get through.

    BTW, you don't need to answer my questions. They are for you to answer for yourself.

    :-Don

    Edit - I just looked at your pricing, and I think your prices are quite reasonable for the area of the country where you are located. People spend more than that on granite kitchen counter tops. However, you are selling to an upscale market. Those are the people you need to reach. Babys R Us, and Toys R Us sell to the wrong market for you. You need to reach the "hoity-toity" moms.

    How about approaching merchants who sell upscale baby and childrens' clothing, toys, funiture - anything trendy?

    Also make regular, helpful idea posts on any local "mom" forums you can find.

    Remember - multiple contacts - every two weeks. I know that sounds like a lot, but it is what will work.

    Sorrry, I keep editing as I get more ideas. You can soften local merchants by sending full color postcards week after week to help introduce your service before going to talk to them. You do need to reach the owners. A postcard company I have used for the past 10 years is clubflyers dot com. I am not an affiliate.

    If you are going to do repeated mailings to 30merchants (sending to surrounding cities too), and you mail to them 15 times over the next 6 month, that's 450 postcards you will need. Larger cards get more attention.
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  • Profile picture of the author goindeep
    You need to figure out who your customers are and where they come from and why they want/need your product.
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  • Profile picture of the author Berg Canon
    Any way to get your toothsoap in the hands of a celeb that might tweet about it?
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  • Profile picture of the author mysterrio
    As for youtube, I think you could take photos or video or you working on a painting. Things like before and after shots with a description that says: imagine how good this looks at night. Etc.
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  • Profile picture of the author Wendy Maki
    Just a few quick ideas, specifically about the ceiling murals site...

    Target your locality in terms of keywords, using it in page names or even get a new domain with your locality in it. Eg. SomeplaceStarCeilingMurals.com or YourSite.com/SomeplaceStarCeilingMurals ... (just off the top of my head)

    I get a lot of traffic to location-specific pages and they are much easier to rank for when it comes to a specific service or product (you don't really need the traffic from half way across the country anyways, do you?)

    Make sure you DON'T have the off-topic teeth stuff etc on your mural site

    Yes, do consider doing a short YouTube video demonstrating you painting -- make sure you use keywords that are relevant. All you need is a digital camera that takes video, trying out different lighting to get a good result, and a cheapy tripod to make it hands free. Embed that on your site AND link to your site from your dedicated YouTube channel.

    Have a way for people to contact you from your website or sign up for an email list to collect leads...

    Target slightly more general keywords that people are actually searching for. I suspect more along the line of "ceiling murals" or "decorative ceiling painting." It's actually not too hard to find good 'craftsy' keywords that do have some traffic. Also the children's room decorating niche, etc. Start thinking like someone who is actually searching for something ALONG the line of what you offer, not necessarily exact. Often they are looking for ideas... and what you offer seems to be something that could be an inspiration... And THAT is the exact type of thing they post to PinTrest, so do something for that too... but always throw in your location key phrases!

    Good luck.
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