Can People Steal Your Bullet Points, Headlines, and Sales Copy?

18 replies
Is it legal for other people to steal your bullet points,
headlines, and sales copy? I know it's not ethical or
in good taste, but is it legal?

There are two flavors here...

Let's pretend that someone is using our exact bullet
points right now. If that person was using our bullet
points word for word, would that be legal?

Let's pretend that someone is using almost exactly
the same headlines (tweaked by 1-2 words) as we
have used on a similar (but not exactly the same)
product or service. Would that be legal?

Just trying to figure out what is allowed legally with
sales copy and what is not. I'll refrain from saying
anything else about the situation until I have more
information and advice.

~ John
#bullet #copy #headlines #people #points #sales #steal
  • Profile picture of the author JackTheLad
    That sounds like plagiarism. Couldn't be sure without seeing
    the exact text though.

    "Plagiarism - Passing off someone else's work as your own, whether word for word or merely the creative ideas. This can amount to copyright infringementif permission has not been obtained from the copyright owner for use of the expressive elements of the work. Even if permission is granted, putting your name on someone else's work is still plagiarism and is unethical within artistic, scientific, academic and political communities."

    Source - Nolo.com
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    • Profile picture of the author Curt Dillion
      Originally Posted by JackTheLad View Post

      That sounds like plagiarism. Couldn't be sure without seeing
      the exact text though.

      "Plagiarism - Passing off someone else's work as your own, whether word for word or merely the creative ideas. This can amount to copyright infringementif permission has not been obtained from the copyright owner for use of the expressive elements of the work. Even if permission is granted, putting your name on someone else's work is still plagiarism and is unethical within artistic, scientific, academic and political communities."

      Source - Nolo.com
      Within artistic, scientific, academic and political communities? That doesn't seem to cover advertising. Also, advertising doesn't always involve putting your name out there.

      I suspect this might be very difficult and expensive to fight. This is one of those things where it would be wise to research case law, and see what has happened in court.
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  • Profile picture of the author Johnny
    So sale copy is not copy righted ?
    If that is the case, we can copy sale freely then ?
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    • Profile picture of the author Curt Dillion
      Originally Posted by Johnny View Post

      So sale copy is not copy righted ?
      If that is the case, we can copy sale freely then ?
      I'm not saying it's not copyrighted. I'm saying you either need to read the laws, which are purposely ambiguous, to invite litigation, or you need to look up case law at sites like findlaw. Attorneys have subscriptions to those sites, so you might be able to find someone who will look it up for minimal expense.

      Laws have been enacted for copyrighting in digital format for the Internet, which seem to be different than for printed matter.

      Copyright for written material has to say it's copyrighted. Even then, you'd better register it, or send yourself a certified letter with the copyrighted material inside. You must not open the letter. Store it away until you have to go to court. The court will open the dated material to validate your copyright claim.
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      • Profile picture of the author Stephen Dean
        Originally Posted by Curt Dillion View Post

        Copyright for written material has to say it's copyrighted.
        I think that has changed. Here's a link to the US Copyright Office stating when a work is considered protected...

        U.S. Copyright Office - Copyright in General (FAQ)

        It says, "Your work is under copyright protection the moment it is created and fixed in a tangible form that it is perceptible either directly or with the aid of a machine or device."

        I'm assuming that means once you publish a web page it's protected.

        Stephen
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        • Profile picture of the author Curt Dillion
          Originally Posted by Stephen Dean View Post

          I think that has changed. Here's a link to the US Copyright Office stating when a work is considered protected...

          U.S. Copyright Office - Copyright in General (FAQ)

          It says, "Your work is under copyright protection the moment it is created and fixed in a tangible form that it is perceptible either directly or with the aid of a machine or device."

          I'm assuming that means once you publish a web page it's protected.

          Stephen
          I stand corrected.
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    • Profile picture of the author sylviad
      Check the page and you're probably going to see a "copyright" notice somewhere, usually at the bottom. This is significant to indicate that the page is not there for anyone to steal and duplicate. Make sure you include a copyright notice on your own site so people know it's not up for grabs.

      Copyright is a very complex subject. Run a search on the Forum because this topic has been convered in depth several times with input from Warriors who are more knowledgeable than I.

      I question your Quote from Nolo... specifically the section stating that "ideas" are copyrighted. Millions of people have similar ideas to what's already out there. You cannot copyright an idea but if the product is made from that idea then the idea in that product format is copyrighted.

      For instance, if you have an idea to write a report on using Squidoo to get traffic to your main site - that's just an idea that anyone can use. Think of all the internet marketing "ideas" that have been duplicated in ebooks.

      You really need to check with a copyright lawyer to get the true definition and interpretation.

      Back to your main question... yes, bullet points are included in a copyright because they are all part of the content.

      If the person took those points and reworded them, that is acceptable.

      Hope this helps.

      Sylvia
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      • Profile picture of the author Curt Dillion
        Originally Posted by sylviad View Post

        If the person took those points and reworded them, that is acceptable.
        Sylvia
        That is a very key statement. When you read something, the information is in your mind for you to use. Writing it out in your own words gives you ownership if you publish it.
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  • Profile picture of the author Stephen Dean
    Pretty much anything you publish is protected by copyright law. The first step would probably be a cease and desist letter. That's probably enough.

    You might even be able to notify their webhost or domain registrar including the cease and desist (although I'm not sure about that).

    The final solution would probably be a lawsuit.

    I said probably 3 times because I'm not a lawyer!

    Stephen
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  • Profile picture of the author JustVisiting
    I seem to remember from somewhere that headlines cannot be copyrighted.
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    • Profile picture of the author marciayudkin
      Originally Posted by JustVisiting View Post

      I seem to remember from somewhere that headlines cannot be copyrighted.
      Book titles cannot be copyrighted (although they can be trademarked). But headlines are covered by copyright law just as nearly everything else on the web is, unless noted otherwise.
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      • Profile picture of the author havplenty
        Originally Posted by marciayudkin View Post

        Book titles cannot be copyrighted (although they can be trademarked). But headlines are covered by copyright law just as nearly everything else on the web is, unless noted otherwise.
        Headline 1: "How A Fed Up Office Worker Quit His 9 to 5 And Went On To Earn $1 Million In 38 Days"

        Headline 2 (plagiarized version): How A Frustrated Personal Assistant Told Her Boss To 'Shove It' And Started A Company Earning $2.5 Million In 6 Months"

        The two headlines aren't the same, but the underlying theme is the same. How do you enforce that in court.

        It's a bit like taking someone to court for a patent infringement on something like the 'invention of poetry'.
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        • Profile picture of the author Stephen Dean
          Originally Posted by havplenty View Post

          Headline 1: "How A Fed Up Office Worker Quit His 9 to 5 And Went On To Earn $1 Million In 38 Days"

          Headline 2 (plagiarized version): How A Frustrated Personal Assistant Told Her Boss To 'Shove It' And Started A Company Earning $2.5 Million In 6 Months"

          The two headlines aren't the same, but the underlying theme is the same. How do you enforce that in court.

          It's a bit like taking someone to court for a patent infringement on something like the 'invention of poetry'.
          That's not plagiarism necessarily... with those two headlines, maybe, but it's more of a template that anything. All copywriters use templates.

          If someone replicated the first headline without changing the words, it'd be a copyright violation. If they reword it sufficiently... it's probably not.

          Stephen
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  • Profile picture of the author Louis Raven
    Hey John, I think it has to be over a certain amount of words but don't quote me.

    I remember Parris Hilton wanting to trademark "that's hot" but failed as it has to be at least 3 words or something along those line.

    Of course I've probably got it completely wrong but if that is the case, surely everything we write or speak is copyright infringement right?

    Think about it.

    Louis
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  • Profile picture of the author JustVisiting
    Found this interesting item ( by quoting the following am I breaking copyright law?..).

    "Copying on the Internet
    Most of copyright law was formulated in terms of books, audiovisual works (e.g., motion pictures), and sound recordings. While the basic principles of copyright law are the same for all media, it is not yet clear how some of these principles apply to the Internet.

    The act of viewing a page on the Internet automatically involves making a copy, since the material is transferred to the user's computer and stored there in semiconductor memory (RAM = random access memory). This copy is arguably not infringement, because authors post documents on the Internet with the intent of having other people read the documents, so there may be an implied license to copy web pages during the reading of them. Moreover, the copy in RAM evaporates when the machine is switched off and the copy in RAM is overwritten when the next document is read, so the copy in RAM is not permanent. "
    Source:http://www.rbs2.com/copyr.htm

    I impart this information to you as I would in a conversation, since this is a forum. I am not publishing this quote.
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    • Profile picture of the author pixguy
      I come from a photography background.
      If I take a photo of a bridge standing on a particular rock looking west on an angle of 90 deg..
      then...
      Someone the next day did exactly the same and we both published the photo's .. who owns the copyright?
      That's right, each of us own that exact picture we took.
      I can not sue him for copying my idea.
      Now, I realize that in the real world we are such a trigger happy,sue happy and litigious world.. that we need some common sense here.

      If you write sales copy or words on a webpage and copy it word for word, yes it is copyright.
      However, I read it... then say to myself, "Hey that's a good subject or niche to write about" I then write a webpage salescopy or info in my own words...
      Sorry folks that isn't copyright infringement.

      Now, there is a fine line here... a gray area so to speak.

      If I copy your exact meanings, paragraphs, layouts, headings etc.. but change all the wording.. then that's a gray area and you need to prove that in court in front of a judge.
      It's all about what you can prove and what you are willing to do about it.
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  • Profile picture of the author John S. Rhodes
    Well, the situation we are in is tough because we don't have any
    wish to cause the other person harm. However, they blatantly
    copied large portions of our sales page.

    We're talking to this person now, exchanging emails. I think that
    we'll be able to work through it but if we can't we'll "go public"
    which will do great harm to their reputation. The word-for-word
    copying is blatant.

    ~ John

    p.s. I suppose the good news is that people love the sales copy.
    There are comments by several people that it's really good. That
    makes sense since it converted well for us.
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      One of the first things I learned as a copywriter, from some of the biggest
      names in the business, is to make swipe files.

      These are files of headlines, bullet points and other items that have
      contributed to the success of the sales letter.

      You then take one of the swipes and word it so that it fits your sales letter.
      You don't use it word for word (and in most cases, since each product is
      usually somewhat unique, you wouldn't do this anyway) but instead take
      the "idea" and word it so that it fits your message.

      I don't personally do this because I'm too lazy to make swipe files.

      But I do know many top copywriters who do and they all seem to think
      that this is perfectly acceptable. So I don't know what the general
      perception is among non pro copywriters.

      But make no mistake about it...swipe files are big.

      Not the same thing as blatantly just using the copy word for word, but
      not very far from it.
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  • Profile picture of the author Steven Carl Kelly
    You copy is more than likely protected by copyright provisions. If they have used wholesale portions of it without permission, I would suggest contacting them in a friendly manner and asking them to modify it so that there is no need to pursue it further.

    Copyright issues are almost always civil, not criminal, matters. The US Copyright Office does not enforce copyright law, the FBI does.
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