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Unread 7th April 2011, 10:55 AM   #1
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Default Trademark violation of which I was unaware

I read other threads about trademark violations but I couldn't find the answers I need. My situation is slightly different.

I have a site the domain of which is going to expire in a forthnight. I was wondering whether to renew it, because in 3 years I only earned €30 with Adsense and some €200 with ebay. A real waste of time (and this is not even one of my worst sites....)

Anyway, 2 days ago I received a letter from an attorney stating I violated the trademark of their client.

Honestly, I did not really know that part of the keywords I used in the domain was a trademark. I considered it only as an expression (it is something like "good bread machine" being the 2 words "good bread" the trademark).

The site was optimized for that sort of products, in particular for a different brand and in 3 years I had very little visits in general but most of all very little through the trademarked keywords.

Now they asked me:

"(1) cease and desist from further use in any way of the XXXXX XXXXX™
mark;
(2) transfer to our client the domain name www.xxxxxxxxxxx.com;
(3) provide information and substantiating documentation as to any revenue you have realized on account of or through, in whole or part, your infringing use of the XXXXX XXXXX™ mark as set forth herein, including without limitation any such revenue realized through the website www.XXXXXXXXX.com, and account and remit to us the full amount of such revenues;
(4) provide information and substantiating documentation regarding any other party in the infringing uses of the XXXXXX XXXXXXX™ mark as set forth herein;
and
(5) agree to enter a stipulated final judgment and permanent injunction in this matter.

Except for the www.XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX.com website, which must be changed immediately, XXXXXXXXXX is willing to provide you a reasonable period of time, not to exceed two weeks, in which to effect these changes."

I have no problems in transferring the domain to their client, apart from some technical difficulties because I cannot understand the registrar's instructions, and have already taken down all my files.

But before answering them I wonder about the economical requests. Will they really want the money? How could I show them the revenues? shall I send them a screenshot of my ebay affiliate account??? What about all the money I spent for the site?
What does the (5) means??

Had anyone ever replied in a way not to have to pay? Can you share your experience?
I really need your help!
Thank's in advance

edit: some spelling corrections
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Unread 7th April 2011, 11:04 AM   #2
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Default Re: Trademark violation of which I was unaware

You should seek the counsel of an attorney in this matter as receiving answers on this
in the Warrior forum is a bad ideal.

For legal advise on what you should do, speak to some one qualified.

Have a Great Day!
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Unread 7th April 2011, 11:16 AM   #3
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Default Re: Trademark violation of which I was unaware

I would agree only to transfer the domain and do that. You can inform them that you will contact your attorney for any other demands.

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Unread 7th April 2011, 11:26 AM   #4
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Default Re: Trademark violation of which I was unaware

Yes, perhaps just let it go. They won't have a case then.
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Unread 7th April 2011, 11:33 AM   #5
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Default Re: Trademark violation of which I was unaware

I would talk to an attorney before doing anything.

As I recall, there are a few things that factor into whether trademark infringement has actually occurred. Simply the fact that your domain name contains their trademarked term, especially if it's a common phrase, like "good bread", does not necessarily constitute trademark infringement. What also goes into consideration is how the website was used. Is your website in the same niche as their business for which they have the trademark?

It could be that they may not even have a case. They might simply be trying to intimidate people and squeeze out money from people.

Or, they might very well have a case.

That's why it's important to talk to an attorney. And do so before doing anything. Doing the wrong thing could get you in deeper trouble. So, get off the forum and get an attorney pronto!


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Unread 7th April 2011, 12:08 PM   #6
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Default Re: Trademark violation of which I was unaware

You've had the site for three years? Did you check to see when the term was trademarked?

My advice would be the same - check with an attorney. I'd pay an attorney to respond to that email in a definitive way as I think there's something odd about it.

The message doesn't seem "right" to me. Anyone could look to see the domain will expire soon if not renewed - no need to transfer an expiring domain except the person wants the ability to grab that domain.

I would not reply to the message myself in any way, shape or form - but would send a legal response.

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Unread 7th April 2011, 12:35 PM   #7
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Default Re: Trademark violation of which I was unaware

I had the same thing happen to me and I checked their Trademark date and I owned the domain long before the had the TM. I sent them an email letting them know I was seeking a Regulatory Judgment in my local court and if they would like to buy the name they could have it for $2500. I they hadn't pissed me off and simply emailed me concerning the name, I might have sold it to them for $500. 2 weeks later they paid me $2500.

Don't let that letter scare you. When you tell them you are filing for RJ, they know they will lose plus they now have to come to your ball park.

The stupidest thing attorneys do is send cease and desist letters.

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Unread 7th April 2011, 12:47 PM   #8
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Default Re: Trademark violation of which I was unaware

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan C. Rinnert View Post
I would talk to an attorney before doing anything.

As I recall, there are a few things that factor into whether trademark infringement has actually occurred. Simply the fact that your domain name contains their trademarked term, especially if it's a common phrase, like "good bread", does not necessarily constitute trademark infringement. What also goes into consideration is how the website was used. Is your website in the same niche as their business for which they have the trademark?

It could be that they may not even have a case. They might simply be trying to intimidate people and squeeze out money from people.

Or, they might very well have a case.

That's why it's important to talk to an attorney. And do so before doing anything. Doing the wrong thing could get you in deeper trouble. So, get off the forum and get an attorney pronto!
^^This.^^

You don't have a legal obligation to do anything demanded of you in a C&D letter. If they really want those things they'd have to go to court to force them from you. It's very common for lawyers to go overboard in those letters because they know that they cause a great deal of fear and anxiety in most people, who they know are very likely ignorant of their rights.

Companies aggressively defend their trademarks because their claims of uniqueness, powers of enforcement and so on can be diluted if they don't. Look at Band-Aid and Xerox.

In many cases you can get a free consultation with an attorney; whether you can find a trade attorney in your area is a different matter. Perhaps you can get a usable answer from one of those "ask-a-lawyer" forums online.

If it were me, I'd ignore them and let it expire, and if they contacted me again I'd shoot a note back and tell them they've already spent more in attorney fees than I'd ever made on the site and that the domain was up-for-grabs on whatever date.

However I wouldn't necessarily advise anyone else to do what I would do. :rolleyes:

Good luck,
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Unread 7th April 2011, 02:29 PM   #9
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Default Re: Trademark violation of which I was unaware

I received a lots of good hints here. Thank you to all

First, after the first period of searching for a long keyword, I did not paid much attention to this site.

Today I made a search.

- The first site on google is mysame-keyword-&different.com
The site have an extremely tiny circle thing after the FIRST word on the graphical logo. It is not visible what it is. No other trademark or copyright symbols appears an any page of the site. It doesn't seem to have anything to do to the trademark owner who contacted me through the attonery group. The only item which results from a search in the site for that 2 trademark words has very little to do with the attorney's client.

- the second site returns lots of error messages: a database deleted by the owner after the attorney letter???

- then few sites with no trademark in the url or facebook pages.

- then again mysame-keyword-&differentS.com

- then an amazon page and here for the first time I can see that the 2 words are part of a name of a producer (we are on google 2nd page)

- then squidoo pages and other sites

-then my exact same domain except that my is mysame-keyword-&mine.com and that is mysame-keyword-&mineS.com (plural).

That is... I cannot see any site from this producer but many other sites some of which using the trademarked words plus others....


@proapc how did you check the trademark date? I tried to google it but found not relevant sites.... this is a very good idea. I'm pretty sure they had it already. The attorney wrote their client had it since 1998, but I don't mind checking.....
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Unread 7th April 2011, 03:03 PM   #10
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Default Re: Trademark violation of which I was unaware

I checked here: http://tess2.uspto.gov/ but I didn't get any result.

then I checked here: Check Trademark Availability Before You Register Your Domain Name and again I couldn't find anything but I also wrote some known brands and I got no results.
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Unread 7th April 2011, 04:52 PM   #11
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Default Re: Trademark violation of which I was unaware

Michael Mayo is right, and I am certainly no lawyer, but...

(5) agree to enter a stipulated final judgment and permanent injunction in this matter!?!?!?!?!?!?

In this case, that sounds like an inappropriate boilerplate! On the CONTRARY, YOU should get a permanent injunction saying that they will not pursue matters against YOU any more for this!

Frankly, I think something stinks here. And if you can show good faith, I doubt they have a case. I am, of course, assuming the words ARE generic, that you didn';t know about the trademark, and that you did not compete with them in ANY way unless it was a good faith use of the generic item.

AGAIN though, IANAL.

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Unread 7th April 2011, 05:00 PM   #12
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Default Re: Trademark violation of which I was unaware

Quote:
Originally Posted by danifae View Post
I checked here: http://tess2.uspto.gov/ but I didn't get any result.

then I checked here: Check Trademark Availability Before You Register Your Domain Name and again I couldn't find anything but I also wrote some known brands and I got no results.
that "assist2web" is a JOKE! I wouldn't rely on it. The USPTO only handles SOME international, and US trademarks. But the lack of it there, if you or they are in the US, REALLY strengthens your case! If THEY are in the US, they are IDIOTS! The USPTO should have been the FIRST place they registered it in. If they are NOT in the US. but you ARE, they are STILL not very smart, but it supports that you didn't know!


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Unread 7th April 2011, 05:01 PM   #13
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Default Re: Trademark violation of which I was unaware

OK, I took it a step further just to see what if...

"MHP International"+"trademark"

I would still recommend that you seek qualified counsel prior to any deals or resolutions.

Have a Great Day!
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Unread 7th April 2011, 07:03 PM   #14
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Default Re: Trademark violation of which I was unaware

If you really got balls sell the domain to them for just slightly less than it would cost to take you to court! (I wouldn't have the balls for it, I'm just saying...) :p
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Unread 7th April 2011, 08:21 PM   #15
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Default Re: Trademark violation of which I was unaware

The first time I remember reading about the "bad faith" argument was in the case below. I haven't verified it but I was left with the impression that there could be criminal penalties involved for behavior akin to extortion.

Going with the viewpoint that the law/court cases rarely favor the "little guy", I'd suggest being very careful about the battles you choose to fight.

Robert

"Under the Uniform Dispute Resolution Policy adopted by the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers, trademark owners can only take away names that someone is using "in bad faith." A sign of bad faith is registering a name "primarily for the purpose of selling" it to a trademark holder.

Read more: Madonna.com embroiled in domain ownership spat - CNET News"
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Unread 7th April 2011, 09:26 PM   #16
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Default Re: Trademark violation of which I was unaware

Yeah, you need to talk to a lawyer on this one asap.

While I would personally be inclined to say you may have a case, even if you are in the right....is this fight really worth waging?

This is what you're in for, should you decide to fight this:

Nissan.com - Lawsuit - The Story

Read this story carefully, and decide what your next move should be.
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Unread 8th April 2011, 02:04 AM   #17
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Default Re: Trademark violation of which I was unaware

Honestly, I looked in many sites, but I cannot find these 2 words as a trademark
I checked
Trademark-Info
and then Zibb. The Global business search engine.

here I found they own a 4-word name with 2 of my 3 words
BUT!
on Free Trademark Search Online | Trademark a Word, Logo, Design or Symbol - Online. Fast & Easy| Experienced Attorneys, Easy Online Process| Get Your Trademark Now! I found that the above trademark was cancelled on 25 February 2011! and then I found the same on Tess:

"Current Status: Registration cancelled because registrant did not file an acceptable declaration under Section 8. "

It seems they don't own the 2 words of my 3-word domain and don't even own the name they used to....
I will definitively seek for an attorney advice. I feel they are pulling my nose.... I deleted the files on my site which doesn't show anymore. But many other sites with the same words are still on... maybe they made the same search...
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Unread 8th April 2011, 03:25 AM   #18
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Default Re: Trademark violation of which I was unaware

Something is wrong with this - Sounds like a scam. You can check this out free of charge via your local DA's office. I'm betting its nothing to worry about but you need to make sure. If it's a scam, as I think it is - your local DA might just like to catch the jerk who sent it. They need to PROVE that they have had that site since 1998 ect. they can't just send an email and tell you that you have to start documenting earnings. That's nuts.

Like I said - your DA's office is free. Just tell them you think it's someone trying to scare you out of money -which is what it sounds like and they will look into it for you.

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Unread 8th April 2011, 03:52 AM   #19
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Default Re: Trademark violation of which I was unaware

Quote:
Originally Posted by danifae View Post
Honestly, I looked in many sites, but I cannot find these 2 words as a trademark
Do not assume that because they seem like 'normal' words and you can't find a trademark that you are ok.

I had a friend, actually a fellow warrior (now deceased) who was in this same predicament a few years ago. Their domain name seemed to me (and them) like just normal words but they got sued for trademark infringement and it's much more complicated than many people realise.

I'm not a lawyer and I don't play one on TV but if you were my friend and asking for my advice I would probably say - Let it expire, definitely don't agree to anything or make any payments without first seeking proper legal advice and don't stress about it. Let it go and get on with other things then if they still chase you via legal routes go see a lawyer and get proper advice about how to respond.

Andy
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Unread 8th April 2011, 04:26 AM   #20
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Default Re: Trademark violation of which I was unaware

if u are based outside the US and they are based in the US, i would tell them to go F themselves. not like you can get extradited for cases like this.

it sounds like they are fishing. just cos u get a C&D letter doesnt mean anything. lots of lawyers send these out to scare people. but you havent actually done anything wrong.

personally, if it was me. i would renew the domain, just to piss them off and ignore their letter altogether.

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Unread 8th April 2011, 04:27 AM   #21
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Default Re: Trademark violation of which I was unaware

OR...reply requesting for proof of trademark, before u even consider anything.

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tried a clickbank product? let us know what u think. thinking about trying one? come and check what others are saying.
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Unread 8th April 2011, 09:32 AM   #22
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Default Re: Trademark violation of which I was unaware

I agree - before you do anything else, ask for the registration number of the trademark so you can research it.

I had someone send me a threatening e-mail about one of my domain names, referring to their "trademark" - and it turned out they didn't have a trademark. Asking for proof of the trademark is now one of my first responses to threatening e-mails like this.

Keeping a cool head is your first line of defense.
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Unread 8th April 2011, 10:42 AM   #23
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Default Re: Trademark violation of which I was unaware

Yes, that's a very good idea. I did not imagine the difficulties in looking for trademarks. I thought that they were all listed in an official site.

I gave a look again at the email I received. Am I sure it is real? I checked in the site of this big attorney group: there is a partner with the name of the email and the email address on the site seems to be the same from which the email was sent. I contact a friend who is an international attorney and during the weekend I'll ask for advice.

But the first step is surely to have reassurance the email really comes from them and to have the trademark registration number.

Thank you to all for your support!!
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Unread 8th April 2011, 10:51 AM   #24
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Default Re: Trademark violation of which I was unaware

Quote:
Originally Posted by proapc View Post
Don't let that letter scare you. When you tell them you are filing for RJ, they know they will lose plus they now have to come to your ball park.

The stupidest thing attorneys do is send cease and desist letters.
Agreed. Do not be scared, that is their tactic.
Do not do a damn thing until you at least hear some free counsil from a professional, and let them review the letter and your background infor about this site.

My guess is they don't have a case, personally I would round file it and move on but talk to an attorney before given your URL over.

wj

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Unread 8th April 2011, 10:52 AM   #25
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Default Re: Trademark violation of which I was unaware

TESS is where you search for trademarks in US
Trademark Search - TESS

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Unread 8th April 2011, 10:55 AM   #26
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Default Re: Trademark violation of which I was unaware

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamCBR View Post
personally, if it was me. i would renew the domain, just to piss them off and ignore their letter altogether.
I would do the same.

wj

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Unread 8th April 2011, 12:09 PM   #27
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Default Re: Trademark violation of which I was unaware

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I would do the same.

wj
I almost said the same. The letter REAKS of some spoiled brat trying to con you.

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Unread 8th April 2011, 12:14 PM   #28
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Default Re: Trademark violation of which I was unaware

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrfusion View Post
If you really got balls sell the domain to them for just slightly less than it would cost to take you to court! (I wouldn't have the balls for it, I'm just saying...) :p
You DO realize there is a preference for small companies to go to arbitration. The cost to go to court may be small.

Steve
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Unread 8th April 2011, 12:33 PM   #29
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Default Re: Trademark violation of which I was unaware

Quote:
Originally Posted by seasoned View Post
I almost said the same. The letter REAKS of some spoiled brat trying to con you.

Steve
Quote:
Originally Posted by webjedi View Post
I would do the same.

wj
Actually, you seem to have verified that it was from a legitimate law firm and lawyer. That's enough to proceed with caution. If they own the trademark, they can sue you ... for really big bucks.

Search TESS for the trademark. If it exists, give them the domain. Ignore the rest of the demands. Agree to nothing and seek professional counsel.

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Unread 8th April 2011, 12:35 PM   #30
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Default Re: Trademark violation of which I was unaware

Wow, Interesting. I would most surely consult with an attorney on that issue my friend to determine what you can and cannot use for future domain creation. I would of course inquire with friend, family and business associates to see if they have a friend that's an attorney that specialize in the area of trademarks and copyrights before seek a paying lawyer first.

And if you have to pay for a lawyer I would find the cheapest trademark attorney to consult with. Remember this is a one-time consultation that can be created as an WSO to teach other internet marketers about using trademarked keyword term for domain names. So even if you incur cost turn that cost info into a info product to sell, this well maybe your first WSO in a small informative report with the help of the cheap and low-cost attorney, that way you won't lose totally financially.

Hope that helps.

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Unread 8th April 2011, 12:58 PM   #31
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Default Re: Trademark violation of which I was unaware

Quote:
Originally Posted by danifae View Post
I really need your help!
You really need an attorney.

I can tell you what I would do. I would write back to the company. Having done this, I would probably never hear from them again, because what they actually want is almost certainly to put paperwork on file to the effect that they have made a good faith effort to protect their trademark.

But here's the thing: I would do this - without the advice of legal counsel - because I have studied intellectual property law for years. So I can write that letter for myself as a pro se action which I have the legal right to take. But I cannot write that letter for anyone else, nor can I instruct anyone else how to write that letter, without potentially being accused of practising law without a licence. And if you knew enough about intellectual property law to write that letter, you wouldn't be asking this question.

So you need to get an attorney.

"The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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Unread 8th April 2011, 01:00 PM   #32
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Default Re: Trademark violation of which I was unaware

This kind of thing makes my blood boil...

Firstly it makes me wonder if they are trying to scare you into "not" renewing the domain so they can get it...

Secondly you say the domain is something like "good bread machine" and they are disputing the use of the "good bread" part....

Now if the "good bread" part is a commonly used generic term or combination I would tell them to go "f$%$" themselves.

Are you able to see any other domains that use the offending "good bread" term in their domains....

If you can then I would think you will be fine, out of sheer principle though I would dig into your pockets and pay for some legal advice...

I hate it when dodgy b$$%^ds try and scare people....


I wish you luck and hope it all works out in your favor...
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Unread 8th April 2011, 02:41 PM   #33
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Default Re: Trademark violation of which I was unaware

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Are you able to see any other domains that use the offending "good bread" term in their domains....
There are other sites with the 2 words... and one, my exact same domain but with the last word being plural, was implemented on the last november and has an incredible good Alexa rank. It doesn't sell the "trademarked" products but, like me, the same kind of products.

@sbucciarel
I searched on TESS but that company doesn't own anything. The only trademark they owned was cancelled on February because they failed to produced a "I don't know what" document. And in their site the logo shows a sort of extremely tiny circle after the first word, it might be a (TM) or something like that, but in no other place in the site there is such a sign and this is strange. Why don't they use it in the site? why is it barely visible in the logo??? But most of all why cannot I find anywhere in TESS or just googling it??

My problem is I'm not American. I might have misunderstood the meaning of that 2 words but most of all I might have difficulties in finding someone who knows how to "move" among USA laws....
I was more than willing to ask for excuses and tranfer them the domain, but why cannot I find any evidence that someone owns that trademark?

I always struggle with money and family issues and I'm really fed up to be always a surrender!!!!! I don't want those people to make fun of me!
My contact data are public: they might have thought I cannot check and have a proper legal advice from my country........
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Unread 8th April 2011, 04:48 PM   #34
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Default Re: Trademark violation of which I was unaware

You said earlier that the site/name had very little value to you. Yeah, nobody likes to feel like they're being p*ssed on but that's gonna happen now and then throughout your life; is this really the fight into which you want to invest your time and money? If it is, fine. If it isn't, let it go and file it under "pick your battles". Many people get their knickers in a twist over vague points of principle and uncertain money and wind up owing a huge amount of verifiable money to a lawyer. Putting yourself in provable debt to a lawyer is a life experience you probably don't need.

Make it a business decision: Is there greater profit or other benefit than expense/risk? If not, then take a pass.

I'd most certainly educate myself as to the truth of the situation either way for the future, and I'm sure others here would appreciate a report on what you learned.

Good luck,
Robert
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Unread 8th April 2011, 05:38 PM   #35
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Default Re: Trademark violation of which I was unaware

Anyone can put a TM after their trademark, to establish it as their trademark. A registered trademark will have the circled R.

Then the question becomes whether they registered the graphic as a trademark, or registered the words as a wordmark. If they registered the graphic, the registration certificate probably states that it is only the graphic that is trademarked and that the trademark does not prevent others from using those words.

Regardless, as other posters have already stated, you need to consult with an attorney, preferably one that is practicing in trademark law.

It will undoubtedly cost more than the site has made for you. But it will also cost much less than if you later have to fight a lawsuit.

I cannot agree with the recommendation to find the cheapest atty you can. In my own experience, the cheap atty will cost you more in the long run.

He's cheap because he hasn't the experience to back up charging more. But he will charge for all the time he takes to research the information he needs to help you. You will be subsidizing his education. Let someone else do that.

Find an atty with many years of experience in trademark law. He may cost a lot more per hour, but will be able to help you much faster, and probably more accurately. And if he's really worth his salt, he will give you the first consult free, up to 30 or even 60 minutes.

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Unread 8th April 2011, 05:59 PM   #36
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Default Re: Trademark violation of which I was unaware

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There are other sites with the 2 words... and one, my exact same domain but with the last word being plural, was implemented on the last november and has an incredible good Alexa rank. It doesn't sell the "trademarked" products but, like me, the same kind of products.
If it is a GENERIC term, like "good bread", then selling products having to do with "good bread" makes sense and is NOT an example of bad faith. If it is a name, even GENERIC, and you sell a competitors products that DON'T relate, it could be used as a sign of bad faith! For shark, for example, you could show sharks, fish, dolphins, shark bait/repellant, etc.... PERFECTLY REASONABLE! But DON'T sell hoover vacume cleaners, because shark, which makes such products, may complain! And you would have a hard time claiming you didn't know it was a trademark.

Quote:
@sbucciarel
I searched on TESS but that company doesn't own anything. The only trademark they owned was cancelled on February because they failed to produced a "I don't know what" document. And in their site the logo shows a sort of extremely tiny circle after the first word, it might be a (TM) or something like that, but in no other place in the site there is such a sign and this is strange. Why don't they use it in the site? why is it barely visible in the logo??? But most of all why cannot I find anywhere in TESS or just googling it??
Quote:
My problem is I'm not American. I might have misunderstood the meaning of that 2 words but most of all I might have difficulties in finding someone who knows how to "move" among USA laws....
I was more than willing to ask for excuses and tranfer them the domain, but why cannot I find any evidence that someone owns that trademark?
If they are American, and it is not registered in the USPTO, I don't believe they have ANY right to bother you. I don't think trademarks expire, so the expiration may be because it was found to be invalid.

OH, and the two generic words may mean different things in the US. AND they could be misspelled. In such a case, a trademark and losing a court case, is more likely. STILL, that should be only academic if it is not in the USPTO.

Quote:
I always struggle with money and family issues and I'm really fed up to be always a surrender!!!!! I don't want those people to make fun of me!
My contact data are public: they might have thought I cannot check and have a proper legal advice from my country........
What country are you in? MANY countries honor, or even copy, such US laws and, as such DO have counsel that is well versed in it.

And YEAH, I was sued once at the absolute WORST time. I was literally on one side of the continent(east coast, new york), and the evidence was on the other(west coast, california) They broke several laws, etc... But the Judges office wanted things to go snail pace ahead and I knew that I would either endanger my first project with a new company, have a small fraction of my information handy, and have to attend the court via a long distance phone call, and pay a LOT more if I lost, or pay 80%. On the bright side, I have had a decade to think about it, and if they try the same tricks, I would push it all the way to the US supreme court since it violated the constitution ALSO.

Also, the lawyer seemed to say ANYTHING, no matter HOW silly. So he said I was paid early, and thus guilty. I said I was paid LATE, and he said THAT meant I was guilty! OK, how many of you pay your bills such that your vendors are ALWAYS paid EXACTLY when they are due? Let me answer that! *****NONE***** of you do! he also used the date a check cleared, rather than the date it was paid. If I got cash, or a credit draft, it would have been different! The law CLEARLY said PAID, not when the instrument clears.

Steve
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Unread 8th April 2011, 06:04 PM   #37
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Default Re: Trademark violation of which I was unaware

If the term they trademarked is "good bread" here is their trademark information. You can do a search here:

Trademark Electronic Search System (TESS)

Word Mark GOOD BREAD Goods and Services IC 030. US 046. G & S: Bakery goods. FIRST USE: 20050500. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 20050500 Standard Characters Claimed
Mark Drawing Code (4) STANDARD CHARACTER MARK Serial Number 78672298 Filing Date July 18, 2005 Current Filing Basis 1A Original Filing Basis 1B Supplemental Register Date August 14, 2006 Registration Number 3185072 Registration Date December 12, 2006 Owner (REGISTRANT) HEB Grocery Company, L.P. HEBCO GP, L.L.C., a Texas limited liability company, its sole general partner. LIMITED PARTNERSHIP TEXAS 646 South Main San Antonio TEXAS 78204 Attorney of Record Kirt S. O'Neill Disclaimer NO CLAIM IS MADE TO THE EXCLUSIVE RIGHT TO USE "BREAD" APART FROM THE MARK AS SHOWN Type of Mark TRADEMARK Register SUPPLEMENTAL Live/Dead Indicator LIVE

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Unread 8th April 2011, 06:25 PM   #38
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Default Re: Trademark violation of which I was unaware

Huh. I used to see commercials for Kern's Bread (in the South, in the 70s) and their tag line was "Kern's is good bread."
I would have thought "good bread" was far too generic a term for a trademark. Didn't Trump get shot down on "You're fired!"?

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Unread 8th April 2011, 06:26 PM   #39
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Default Re: Trademark violation of which I was unaware

I'm sorry, that really sucks.

But you should research the trademark. See if it is even a trademark at all. But since the sight didn't bring in a lot of money, its not really worth it to hire an attorney. If the trademark is real you may need to just cut your loss.

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Unread 8th April 2011, 06:44 PM   #40
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Default Re: Trademark violation of which I was unaware

i really did not know about this though....thats crazy
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Unread 8th April 2011, 08:41 PM   #41
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Default Re: Trademark violation of which I was unaware

Give me a break! Bread, as a word, has probably been used for over 1000 years. It can be seen in ALL germanic languages, so far as I have seen. Granted, they are slightly different, but obviously related. And good seems to be about as old. The two have OFTEN been used together. the "word mark" shown above even SPECIFICALLY excludes BREAD! And Good is the adjective most likely to precede bread to indicate its taste, etc... It IS apparently "GOOD BREAD Goods and Services", and THAT is sufficiently long to be a proper trademark, even if all the words ARE common. Heck, it says the company is called "G & S: Bakery goods.". Could G & S mean goods and services?

Steve
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Unread 10th April 2011, 04:55 AM   #42
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Default Re: Trademark violation of which I was unaware

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Originally Posted by danifae View Post

My problem is I'm not American. ........
You say your problem is you are not American, I would say in this case that this would work in your favor, these people would have to purse you under your own country laws.. Quite rightly it has been pointed out that if you do not really want this domain you should let it go...

I would hate to see these bullies walk away with your domain...

Again I still think this is a generic term and you got there first.... if you have had this name for 3 years and they have only taken an interest now then as a judge I would say that the "bullies" should have registered the name a long time ago...

Anyhow I hope all goes well...
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Unread 10th April 2011, 05:43 AM   #43
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Default Re: Trademark violation of which I was unaware

You're not an American, so you don't really have to worry about US laws. Of course, there may be some international laws that may apply, but here's the thing - just because someone says you are infringing on a copyright, does not make it so. At the end, it becomes a matter how much you, as well as them, are willing to fight for it.

BTW, I would never disclose any personal or financial information to them. Again, just because they ask for them does not make it mandatory requirement.

Don't forget, you have rights. A lot of them. And the burden of proof is on them. You don't have to do a thing. They are the ones who must do all the work if they indeed want to pursue this issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by danifae View Post
I might have misunderstood the meaning of that 2 words but most of all I might have difficulties in finding someone who knows how to "move" among USA laws....
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Unread 10th April 2011, 07:57 AM   #44
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Default Re: Trademark violation of which I was unaware

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You're not an American, so you don't really have to worry about US laws. Of course, there may be some international laws that may apply, but here's the thing - just because someone says you are infringing on a copyright, does not make it so. At the end, it becomes a matter how much you, as well as them, are willing to fight for it.

BTW, I would never disclose any personal or financial information to them. Again, just because they ask for them does not make it mandatory requirement.

Don't forget, you have rights. A lot of them. And the burden of proof is on them. You don't have to do a thing. They are the ones who must do all the work if they indeed want to pursue this issue.
Just to clarify. The US can and HAS pursued non citizens. And domains are generally subject to international law. ALL .COMs(meaning the domain name only here) are subject to US law! So losing the US case can cost you the domain. Of course, non of that is an issue HERE since the OP wants to let the domain elapse anyway. BTW copyrights are on the unique EXPRESSION, so they clearly don't apply here. Again though, copyrights are actually under an international treaty.

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Unread 11th April 2011, 05:01 AM   #45
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Default Re: Trademark violation of which I was unaware

My attorney friend is going to contact that attorney company today. I keept on searching and couldn't find any evidence their client owns the trademark.

BTW just to make it clear, the words Good bread is only an example. I might not have "recognised" those 2 words as a trademark because I'm not American. but still I really doubt it is a trademark.

I'll post any updates as soon as I know them. and I keep my fingers crossed.....
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Unread 11th April 2011, 09:32 AM   #46
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Default Re: Trademark violation of which I was unaware

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My attorney friend is going to contact that attorney company today. I keept on searching and couldn't find any evidence their client owns the trademark.

BTW just to make it clear, the words Good bread is only an example. I might not have "recognised" those 2 words as a trademark because I'm not American. but still I really doubt it is a trademark.

I'll post any updates as soon as I know them. and I keep my fingers crossed.....
Being a foreigner, using english words, and assuming they are not trademarks, could be problematic. goodbread is COMMON! Verybread or greenbread, etc... AREN'T. It IS unlikely they would ever be used BUT, if they were, I guess a case COULD be made for a trademark.

The REAL question is SUPPOSED to be, are they likely to be used in conversation or writing? If they are, they shouldn't be trademarkable.

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Unread 11th April 2011, 10:47 AM   #47
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Default Re: Trademark violation of which I was unaware

Quote:
You're not an American, so you don't really have to worry about US laws.
Not necessarily the case if you are marketing to an American audience as your target market.

Having your lawyer check it is definitely the best way to proceed - please let us know how it's resolved.

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Unread 11th April 2011, 10:58 AM   #48
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Default Re: Trademark violation of which I was unaware

definitely get advice from an attorney.

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Unread 11th April 2011, 11:39 AM   #49
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Default Re: Trademark violation of which I was unaware

Hi

Have you checked out the attorney?

Is MHP International (as mentioned in your post), the attorneys? Because, I can't find them on Google.

There is a supplier of massage chairs called MHP International. And there's the MHP Law Firm in Shanghai. But I can't find any law firm with that name.

This could easily be a scam, from someone who knows that your domain name is up for re-registration.

Make sure the lawyers are genuine before doing anything else.

Good luck
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Unread 12th April 2011, 01:43 AM   #50
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Default Re: Trademark violation of which I was unaware

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Hi

Have you checked out the attorney?
The attorney is GORDON & REES LLP. It seems to be a big attorney company and I think the email really come from them.

My friend tried to contact them yesterday: the partner who signed the letter will phone him back today. :confused:
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