The Power of the WF -- Stompernet magazine launch debacle answered by Andy J.

[tomw]

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Thomas,Oh! You mean like... Laphroaig? The stuff you can't even get here, without breaking import laws?

I wow I never knew that!

But you guys don't do so bad with your Stagg, Evan Williams and Rittenhouse.



Thomas

[impact-productions]

I think the simple fact of the matter is that I'm still waiting for $133.65 worth of merchandise that I've ordered from the offer, plus have wasted a substantial amount of time chasing up this issue with people who don't respond - the latest being the lack of any progress with the e-mail address provided with the 'make good' e-mail the other day (I've no intention of phoning an international number at my expense in these circumstances).

Now, even being generous, and not charging for my time or frustration, and underestimating the number of people with major fulfilment issues, say 1000, assuming most people purchased one of the upsells, as that's where most of the problems appear to have lied, that's $100,000 of unfulfilled orders and missing money.

In some countries that could be looked on as widescale fraud, not just mismanagement.

[Paul Myers]

Josh,

But if anyone is inclined to try to ridicule, discredit, or berate the "whiners" and "complainers" who were paying customers and did not get all they were promised...

I don't see anyone doing that. Do you? If so, where?

I certainly didn't. I suggested that there's a remedy available in this very thread, and that the tone of the thread isn't, in my opinion, appropriate to the problem.

If you haven't gotten what you were promised, I would ask... Did you contact Andy directly when he offered his personal attention and efforts to correct such previously? If so, and it wasn't addressed, then yes, you have an issue. If not, who is responsible for that?

I don't begin to think I have the full picture. I don't claim to. I do think my comments are entirely appropriate within the bounds of what's been said in this thread. And they really don't have a lot to do with individual issues as much as with the way things are handled in this forum.


Paul

[Paul Myers]

Thomas,

It's not so much the country as getting it in PA, which is where I live. Ordering from out of state here is a major hassle.

Impact,

In as much as you're effectively anonymous, it's hard to take your comments with the same degree of seriousness one might attribute to Josh's. That's not to say that you're not being 100% accurate. Merely that we have no reason to assume that to be the case.

You could just be making it up. Or not. We have nothing on which to base that kind of judgment.


Paul

[Josh Anderson]

Paul,

My post was not to debate anyone... just to offer another perspective. Not really in response to anyone in general.

I jumped through the initial hoops several times including "personal contact" which I mentioned in my post. I moved on. Not really interested any more. I did eventually get physical part of the offer... late like many. The bonus stuff... I just figured I'd move on since 90 days is a bit late to collect those and I figured most companies expected them to be collected sooner than later.

Frankly I find Andy's report, though I know he did not mean it this way, to be a bit condescending as in my ears some of his perceptions just don't ring true.

The hard part is Andy did not intend to come off that way, which I know, but I just can't give a high five and accept the explanation because like Brian it just does not ring true from my experience.

I wonder why I feel so bad about the entire experience as a customer?

I don't think anyone meant to treat their customers badly. I don't think Andy or Brad worked so hard to design a marketing and delivery machine for their promotion just to leave hundreds and according to Andy's 90% stat as many as 1800 of his customers feeling ignored and 2nd rate.

But when reading the report all it did for me was dig up those feelings. I'd almost rather have not had an explanation and never revisited the experience again.

[LegitIncomes]

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Thomas,

It's not so much the country as getting it in PA, which is where I live. Ordering from out of state here is a major hassle.

Paul

Why is ordering outside the state of PA a hassle?

[impact-productions]

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

]

Impact,

In as much as you're effectively anonymous, it's hard to take your comments with the same degree of seriousness one might attribute to Josh's. That's not to say that you're not being 100% accurate. Merely that we have no reason to assume that to be the case.

You could just be making it up. Or not. We have nothing on which to base that kind of judgment.

Sure, here's what I personally spent, I've even left the order numbers in for you:
1982776287 - STSE + DVD (cost $30.14)
1982778842 - OTDMP640 (cost $103.51)

Not as much as some who brought the top price product I'll grant you, and obviously those prices include the UK shipping.

Yes, I could make those numbers up, but I certainly go to the trouble of doing so.

Yes, I could have received the products and be pretending not to to get a refund, but I haven't, in fact I'd still rather receive the products paid for than a refund. If I didn't want them I wouldn't have paid for them in the first place. The sheer difficulty I've had in trying to get any kind of tracking details for them suggests to me that they might not have even been posted in the first place.

Sure, my user name is relatively anonymous. The reasons for that will be obvious to most marketers, that in many employments you are responsible for what you do, and what your name is associated with, both during and after work hours. As I'm not in a position to leave my job that would hardly be a sensible course of action. But if anyone's that interested in who I am they only have to PM me, not that a name would mean anything. I could equally well have called myself 'John Smith' or any other common name, as many on the forum do, and that would be no more an indication of legitimacy than using a completely and obvious pseudonym.

[Paul Myers]

Josh (Kulp, not Anderson),

PA has laws about shipping wine and spirits into the state. You can do it, but you have to have it sent to the Liquor Authority, who sends it to a designated store, where you have to pay the state taxes when you pick it up. Assuming it makes its way to you after paying for it in the first place.

I've had a number of liquor stores around here tell me they simply couldn't get it, even after I offered to pre-pay.

Impact,

Not likely you'd make up numbers that could easily be checked and discredited. And that's an interesting reason for not using a real name. That one actually makes sense, which is unusual.

As far as fraud... I rather doubt that such a claim would be merited, as long as the company is making good faith efforts to address the problems.


Paul

[pearsonbrown]

Sorry I'm late getting back to you, Paul.

I acknowledge that I am a friend of the good doctor. I will even acknowledge that he can sometimes adopt a Delphic tone which some may consider as patronising. But nothing he wrote there justifies the patronising nature of the reply he got.

I have been through my fair share of cock ups in my business career. The secret to dealing with them is to convince your customer that you are hurting more than they are. You put in the time and money to fix it. You apologise over and over again.

And when your customer makes what you consider rude remarks about you, you don't bite back.

Pearson

[Paul Myers]

Pearson,

But nothing he wrote there justifies the patronising nature of the reply he got.

Other than " Look up 'opportunity cost' because that's what this is about.", what did Dan say that was patronizing?

I mean that question seriously. I'm not seeing it. Take that sentence out, and it seems to me that you'd really have to stretch to find the post at all objectionable.

Mani got righteously indignant. That's fine, and not unusual. It does not mean that Dan's intentions matched Mani's interpretation.

I've known Mani for quite a while. I not only respect him, I like him. But lots of experience with him tells me that he practically looks for reasons to feel that his dignity has been offended. This is not a surprising trait in a surgeon, mind you, nor is it one of the worst things a person could do. It's just something to be aware of.

It is not, however, something to be led by.


Paul

[Dan.Thies]

I like Mani too, and I appreciate what he does.

I'm sorry. No excuse, I was tired, and wasn't in the mood for flip advice like "hire more people."

Why do I call it that? Because that advice, and the admonition that you "must" be in every conversation on the entire Internet, is simply not helpful.

Quite honestly, with all due respect to Dr. Mani's contributions to the world, I doubt that it was intended to be helpful.

That doesn't make it right to respond in kind. The tone of this forum is negative enough without me adding to it.

[Dan.Thies]

PMs @ Josh & Impact - let me know. Anyone else, I am reading PMs here.

[drmani]

Originally Posted by Dan.Thies

Mani, apologies if I seemed patronizing, but actually that was very much how I took your post.

When you say things like "simple solution - hire more hands" as if we wouldn't know better... it's hard to take it any other way.

Y'know what, Dan?

After posting my reply to you, I was thinking about it - and realized I wrote
something that just as easily as may apply to what I posted about you earlier!

So, sorry for the tone I took - it was unjustified, and not the right one to take.

My apologies to you, Dan.

All success
Dr.Mani

[Tsnyder]

Andy...

Write me down as being in complete agreement with Paul.

The way I see it some mistakes were made in the act of
doing something that very few of those who criticize you would
have the balls to attempt.

I kinda recall a famous quote about failing while daring greatly
but I can't seem to get the precise wording to gel in my mind at
this moment... lol

In any case, you've lost no credibility with me. You guys give away
more useful content than anyone I've seen and I, for one, appreciate
it.

I ordered and received my CD's and magazine in a timely manner... good job!

Tsnyder

[Tsnyder]

Andy...

With regard to the "mistakes were made" comment I forgot to
add that I learned a long time ago that you build your reputation
by how you respond when things go badly. People rarely comment
when things go smoothly.

I think you've done a stellar job of addressing the problems and
correcting the errors.

"Good on ya'"

Tsnyder

[Paul Myers]

Dan,

The tone of this forum is negative enough without me adding to it.

This is what I call a 'radar problem.'

Overall, the tone of the forum is very positive. Look at the majority of the threads, and you'll see people asking and answering questions and sharing ideas in a helpful way.

The challenge is that, for folks who come here in response to negative threads, those are the only ones that make it onto your radar. So, they seem to represent the entire forum and its activities.

It's like police officers, spam fighters, and school counsellors. They deal with so many people who are involved in making some sort of trouble or another that they start to look at the whole world in cynical ways. It's a professional survival system.

The majority of your experience with the place is probably limited to the stuff relating to people complaining. It's natural that those threads would form the basis of your opinion, if that's the case. It's an understandable picture, but an incomplete one.

Just like it would be understandable for people to form a negative opinion of Stomper based on the complaint threads. Understandable and just as wrong.

Terry,

That was Franklin Roosevelt. A particularly apt quote, and one of my favorites. Here's the whole thing:

"It is not the critic who counts: not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself for a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat."

Apt indeed.


Paul

[Wilson Mattos]

Andy,

You still have many upset customers, so I am glad you will be reaching out again to those that canceled, because one thing is for sure: I have not heard even one complaint about the content you guys provided! Those that got their stuff were very happy with it. Those that did not get it should go get it!

Thanks for the awesome content.

StomperNet Rocks!

Wil

[Martin.Avis]

Like many people I had a long and frustrating wait for issue #1 of the Net Effect and the SSE2 DVD. Even though I don't really know anything about the Stompernet people and haven't bought from them before, I never really had any doubt that things would get sorted out. They didn't strike me as fly-by-night outfit and as a long-time business person I know only too well that sometimes the best-laid plans go wrong.

I didn't buy any of the upsells as the magazine was what attracted me.

Eventually issue#1 arrived and I really enjoyed reading it. As a 'reading' kind of person it suited me well. Like Paul, I still haven't watched the SSE2 videos (planning to get to them over Christmas) and so have no idea if they work.

Issues #2 and #3 of The Net Effect have arrived very promptly and few days after the email telling me that they'd been shipped. And as a UK customer, I find that pretty impressive.

So while Andy's report was of interest to me, I don't feel that it particularly applied to my case as I've clearly been one of the lucky ones.

Should apologies have been made earlier? Perhaps, but correct me if I'm wrong here, but I seem to remember that Andy did post in the WF about the problems (and offered an apology) a long time ago. In any case, I don't think anyone watching this thing unfold can have failed to get the message that the guys at Stompernet were really sorry for what was happening. That's been crystal clear from the start to me.

As to the product, The Net Effect is undoubtedly an expensive magazine if you make a straight comparison with something you'd buy from the bookstore. But consider this: for the price of one Net Effect you could buy about 4 regular monthly magazines. How many of those four would you want to keep (even how many individual articles) to refer back to time and again? My experience is very few. And yet, all three copies of the Net Effect that I currently have are well-thumbed, and have been read and re-read several times. The information in each of them has made me money - how many of the 'regular' magazines I buy each month make me money?

As an aside, perhaps another lesson can be added to the report: while both Andy and Dan have come to this thread with good intentions, the end result seems to show that if a company has difficulties and is trying to manage public opinion, it is far better to appoint one person to be the spokesman and not to have several people chipping in. I'm not sure that Dan has helped by chiming in.

Anyway, there are a lot of people posting grievances (and with good reason) but very few happy customers putting their hands up, so I wanted to redress the balance a little.

Martin

[Dan.Thies]

@ Mani, thank you - me too - should we hug now?

@ Paul, most of the time, I come in here to see what folks are saying about new products, so yeah - I do land in a lot of threads where words like "scam" are almost as popular as pronouns. This tends to be self-correcting because there are a lot of amazing contributors here, but it does leave an impression. Point taken though - and much appreciated.

@ Martin, You may be right about that... I might have helped more by chiming in if I'd gone to bed after the first post and not gotten snippy with a guy who saves lives full time and helps people make money in his spare time.

But I'm here because I care. I care about the customers who are happy. I care about the customers who have had problems, and I care about the people who are working their butts off to deliver for customers.

This is personal, too - the lead offer on this promotion, Stomping the Search Engines 2, was *my* course. I spent 9 months putting it together, doing arcane testing, herding cats, and questioning everything so we could get it right.

After what happened with the launch & fulfillment, I got a lot more involved with Stompernet's operations because my name was on the line too. Before this, all I had to do was work with the SN faculty, create great courses, and let Andy do that "marketing stuff" that he does better than anyone I know. Oh, for the good old days.

After this launch, as of a few weeks ago, I have a new mission to add to that. Now I own the whole experience.

I don't want to give short shrift to the reputation-management topic, I think it's a fascinating discussion about something that isn't nearly as simple as it used to be, but my #1 concern is the customer experience and how to make it better.

Nothing will ever be perfect, but we can design a better experience, and we can do a heck of a lot better in execution, to make that design a reality.

I'm going to be in the WF because this is one of the best places for me to find out what people want their experience to be like, from how we're marketed to, to the buying experience, guarantees, post-sale communication & support, etc.

There's a lot of work to do. "Phase 1" was just to get the company's systems to the point where (as many will gleefully point out) they should have been on September 3 of this year. Beyond that is a vast space where we can make the experience of doing business with StomperNet live up to the quality of the content.

I've done this before. I'm up to the job. I'm working with a guy in Andy Jenkins who believes in higher principles and who won't accept what's unacceptable any more than I will.

I will be here for a long time, because I can't think of a better place to ask for feedback on best practices, and all the fun little dilemmas that you have to deal with.

I'd love to say that "next time" we'll try something different, make a public response sooner, but I'm sort of supposed to make sure that there is no next time. We'll never be able to make everyone completely happy but we sure as heck don't want to see the word "debacle" next to the name again.

[drmani]

Originally Posted by Dan.Thies

@ Mani, thank you - me too - should we hug now?

Definitely yes!

I see what you mean, thanks for your detailed PM too, Dan.

All success
Dr.Mani

[joneq]

Hello to everyone--I would like to share my experience so far, and it is [mostly] not good. Unlike some I received the first "free" for $12 [dvd and net affect] shipment pretty quick [once it was shipped that is]. I also got the freebies no prob [end of the not so bad part].

The second shipment arrived very late because it was shipped very late. The video did not play past 1 min 20 secs [on 3 different computers] so that was useless... The last shipment;Nov] was shipped on Dec 11 and was supposed to be here NY on 12/18--as far as I can tell it is on its way bak to Georgia[the long way--just like it was supposed to come]

Est. in Home 12/18/2008 [Estimated delivery]

Manifest ID: 3006---
Status: Enroute
Est. in Home 12/18/2008
Date Time Description Location
December 23, 2008 2:57 PM Enroute KANSAS CITY,KS
December 23, 2008 12:00 AM USPS Electronically Notified My post office,NY
December 17, 2008 6:51 PM Enroute WICHITA,KS
December 16, 2008 10:34 AM Sortation Center Departure EARTH CITY, MO
December 13, 2008 8:15 PM Sortation Center Arrival EDISON, NJ
December 13, 2008 6:18 AM Sortation Center Departure GROVE CITY, OH
December 12, 2008 2:13 PM Sortation Center Arrival GROVE CITY, OH
December 12, 2008 3:19 AM Sortation Center Departure ATLANTA, GA
December 11, 2008 6:25 PM Sortation Center Arrival ATLANTA, GA
December 11, 2008 6:25 PM Pickup ALPHARETTA, GA

The DVD just got shipped today 12/26

I guses I will be getting billed for the Jan--I mean Dec issue [I think] before I get the Nov issue[right?]---hopefully I will get it this year--The Nov isuue I mean



I called the new 24/7 number [on Friday night} and there was indeed someone on the other end. after jumping through the hoops I was informed someone will get back to me in 24 business hrs meaning by Monday or Tuesday [29th or 30th of Dec] and to what end,my delivery will be back in Georgia by then

Why do I feel 24/7 is a little misleading.Yea-- there is someone there, but so what--Even if you call them on a Monday you will still have to wait 24 hrs---

I am a real SEO rookie and hoped to learn a lot--I still do, but while Stompernets info is very good--if not just in one place--the company has some management issues imo.. I would never survive running my real business that way--There are only so many excuses you can use. At least the stompernet crew does not have to do it face to face--How sweet is that...

I need to put that aside and accept them for their expertise in SEO and not how to run a business...That is to say, getting a product out and delivered on time and no excuses.

Maybe they could offer a money back guarantee if not deliverd ontme--something with meat...

This is actually the worst I have ever come across and I order a lot of stuff from a lot of peopele--It is only a GD magazine/video for C sake...None even approach Stompernet...I never Know when I should expct something or when I might be billed--terrible...

I guess I should be happy they don't bill me more than once a month

On a side note: I get a little pissed off when I hear people congratulating the andy and co for owning up to their mistakes and posting here --what else can they do--they are in it #1 for the money and in the process the do offer good info,but to offer props to them for not hiding out is ludicrous....

Kind of reminds me of a politician confessing/apologizing on his way to jain for taking a bribe or something---ridiculous...

It can't always be someone elses fault.

[JuliusMoltgen]

Originally Posted by Andy Jenkins

We are, and we will do a "Rescue Pissed Customers" campaign. InfusionSoft is just about ready to go - there's some further testing that needs to be done (again, not taking any chances this time), and we'll notify customers who canceled how they can pick up where they left off.
Apology First. Then we'll do some (cough) marketing.

Great Andy - here is another problem case
Order Number: 92010580 : [ ref:00D57jve.50055Y2fw:ref ]

Sept 5 - SEO Course + OTO1 + Neteffect + DVD ordered
November 26 - received shipment notice that it was shipped that day !!!
Ok that's more than 11 weeks between order and some activity to attempt to deliver
December 26 - nothing arrived + 3 support emails unanswered

My request - as in "what do I want"
Rather than continuing a deal which is already bad - start again.
Refund the money - in total since I received nothing
I subscribe again with my Miami Address since I have tracking from there

A friend who lives in the US and had received your material mailed me her DVDs since they were not of much use to her - now how pathetic is that - if she can mail it and your fulfillment company cant.
It takes about 10 days and I live in a good part of town. A package will automatically get registered at the border here and then delivered.
Uruguay, I live in Montevideo - the capital is opposite to Buenos Aires but your post office might know that. (I hate it when I hear "Oh Uruguay - now that explains it" - it doesn't - I received the DVDs my friend mailed to me without problems!)

http://simurl.com/sat Well here is a link to Google Earth to help your people locate it.

One rings the bell where it says office and there are people there during the times when a post office might deliver:

This might be South America - but the mail arrives here nevertheless.

Anyway - there is no arguing that this is all substandard - I assume you'll take care of it.
My credit card was billed on several occasions for Neteffect that were announced via Email but that your fulfillment company never got out of the door - not to me anyway. You can probably see that that might lead to some frustrations. When I look at you guys it is because I want to get the edge - a manual what not to do is really cute .... but now I really want to see some action.

Take Care and Happy New Year to everybody!
Julius

[joneq]

Don't hold your breath for email support I waited 2 weeks for a reply to a simple question regarding shipping charges and when it finally came the next issue was already shipped...

The question was "will it cost $12 to ship subsequent issues of net effect +dvd"--since the first issue was "free" and it cost $12 to ship I figure it was a legitimate question..

Since shipping is not $12 I think the first issue was not free..

[JuliusMoltgen]

Well I appreciate Stompernet's offer and everything that I have seen "from the outside" has been - what we Germans call "erste Sahne" - Top Notch
Now I simply wanted to receive what I paid for. I ordered on day one - and after reading the ebook I have to assume that the fact that I live outside the US and ordered the OTO contributed to the delay.

It is just that in my mind I prefer to pretend that what happened never happened and I start now - order a new subscription and receive my product on time. I have given up on support but wrote to Andy's email directly as well as to escalate@ - It is Saturday so I'll wait.

I started out in Hong Kong and maybe that's why I am a bit superstitious - I don't like to continue a deal which went wrong - it seems like bad karma. That's why I want to subscribe again and start a new deal and do something productive.

In a way it is a sobering experience. After all the superbly produced videos I saw they have taken off their capes and ... they are human after all.

I posted the pictures just because people in the US often think Uruguay is somewhere in Africa or even if they know it is in South America they believe it is a place where people steal or lose mail. No that's not the case - I live like you guys and if the mail is not there, its because it wasn't sent or it was sent with the wrong postage. There is no duty on dvds here and it isn't stuck in customs.

I assume Andy will take care of it. They probably subscribe to this thread and - well the reference numbers are all there.

[Dan.Thies]

Originally Posted by joneq

I called the new 24/7 number [on Friday night} and there was indeed someone on the other end. after jumping through the hoops I was informed someone will get back to me in 24 business hrs meaning by Monday or Tuesday [29th or 30th of Dec] and to what end,my delivery will be back in Georgia by then

Why do I feel 24/7 is a little misleading.Yea-- there is someone there, but so what--Even if you call them on a Monday you will still have to wait 24 hrs---

There will always be some cases that need to be escalated to a higher level of support. Clearly this is such a case. You've got a shipment that the carrier is sending on a round trip to nowhere, and that's going to require some investigation. If this wasn't communicated to you effectively, then we have some work to do to improve that.

What kind of hoops did you have to jump through? The first step the reps need to take in handling these calls is to identify the customer, but other than providing enough information to make that possible, there shouldn't be any hoops. It shouldn't be a hassle to get support, so I would like to hear more about this. You can PM me if you like.

You are understandably not happy because your stuff hasn't arrived. You are understandably unhappy because StomperNet hasn't communicated adequately about how the billing & shipping works. Because of the delays caused by switching to the fulfillment center, the product you were shipped is issue #3. Issue #4 is at the printers, and will begin shipping in early January.

Yes, we have more work to do.

With this many subscribers, there will always be some shipping problems. If we can handle these cases better, of course we want to do better. But there's probably no way to reach out and stop the carrier from doing whatever the heck it is that they are doing with your package, especially on a weekend. We will very likely need to reship it.

[Dan.Thies]

Julius,

I've escalated this issue (although it appears you have already done so), and will respond to you by PM when I have more to tell you.

The original shipments in September went out without email notifications - one of the many issues with the original fulfillment house. The November shipment would have been a reshipment. This would almost certainly have happened because you contacted support, but I will work to verify this.

[Dan.Thies]

Julius:

Confirmed that the original shipment was 9/17, and that the 11/26 shipment was in response to your email of 11/12 - you should have received a couple emails about that.

It looks like you emailed again and provided a different (Miami) address on December 2. The response to that included the 11/26 shipping date, and that your record had been updated - you didn't receive this?

[lisawood]

Interesting - I received what I paid for, though it took a L O N G time. I received two issues of the Net Effect - the second one came just last week - a day after I cancelled my subscription because I was tired of waiting.

And I never even got the "I'm sorry" email from Andy - isn't that ironic? ...

[JuliusMoltgen]

Originally Posted by Dan.Thies

Julius:

Confirmed that the original shipment was 9/17, and that the 11/26 shipment was in response to your email of 11/12 - you should have received a couple emails about that.

It looks like you emailed again and provided a different (Miami) address on December 2. The response to that included the 11/26 shipping date, and that your record had been updated - you didn't receive this?

Hi Dan,

Somehow I feel irritated reading your reply - as it turns out my gmail account has tracking too
here is your shipment notice http://screencast.com/t/ZxYkrirBwl 11/26
and here my reply to a mail 11/12 "important info on your order" http://screencast.com/t/0wYCPKKS7

OK and here is what irritates me - if your company had really shipped on Sept 16th why did you not check with me before November 26 whether I had received anything.

And of course if your other shipment company is so great why don't I have the goods by now.

I have received my refunds which is OK. As I mentioned in my mail - I believe I can learn here and I am interested in your offer - however under normal circumstances I wouldn't consider doing business with your company again.

I am not a negative person but I don't believe what you are saying. The items did not get lost in the mail twice. As I mentioned before - my friend send me hers and guess what - I received them both times!

OK now I get back to some productive work. Unbelievable!

[Dan.Thies]

Julius, I want to understand, but I'm not sure what you're trying to tell me with the screenshots of your GMail account. You sent emails to Stompernet, Stompernet sent emails to you. I understand that - I'm just trying to understand what broke down.

I don't know why you didn't receive either shipment that was mailed to you. Perhaps there was some error in the address, or the address was mishandled by the fulfillment system. I don't know. At this point, I can't actually see the original address that was entered into the system, because you asked them to update your address a few weeks ago.

If you choose not to believe that the shipments were sent, I don't know what I can say to change your mind. I take you at your word, and I don't expect you to do the same for me, but lying to people isn't part of my job.

You are correct that Stompernet's team did not personally follow up with every customer to ask whether they had received their packages. However, more than one email was sent with information about how to contact support, ship dates, etc.

The first "all customers" email with shipment info was sent around September 24/25. This email also included the first billing date for subscriptions, tracking numbers for domestic UPS shipments, etc. You should have received such a message, since your original ship date was 9/17.

[JuliusMoltgen]

Originally Posted by Dan.Thies

Julius, I want to understand, but I'm not sure what you're trying to tell me with the screenshots of your GMail account. You sent emails to Stompernet, Stompernet sent emails to you. I understand that - I'm just trying to understand what broke down.

I don't know why you didn't receive either shipment that was mailed to you. Perhaps there was some error in the address, or the address was mishandled by the fulfillment system. I don't know. At this point, I can't actually see the original address that was entered into the system, because you asked them to update your address a few weeks ago.

If you choose not to believe that the shipments were sent, I don't know what I can say to change your mind. I take you at your word, and I don't expect you to do the same for me, but lying to people isn't part of my job.

You are correct that Stompernet's team did not personally follow up with every customer to ask whether they had received their packages. However, more than one email was sent with information about how to contact support, ship dates, etc.

The first "all customers" email with shipment info was sent around September 24/25. This email also included the first billing date for subscriptions, tracking numbers for domestic UPS shipments, etc. You should have received such a message, since your original ship date was 9/17.

Dan

The address was correct http://screencast.com/t/6Ni4GTvW6

I will take you as a person out of the equation - given that I usually receive my mail it is hard to believe that your company sent me something on Sept 16th which got lost in the mail and again on November 26th which again got lost in the mail.

So while you may say that these items were shipped - and given the fact that you had the right address in the system - If find that unlikely.

Now should the many packages somehow arrive here at my address ... then I shall post it here and apologize to you personally. So - don't take things personally - the address was right and if you insist that they were shipped twice!! - then I have trouble believing that statement.

Or one could say that your new fulfillment service is not that great either.

All the Best Julius

[Dan.Thies]

Thanks, Julius. I have no doubt that if I hand addressed something to that address, you would receive it 99 times out of 100 at worst. Clearly there is something wrong somewhere, and I will keep digging.

I hate to ask, but I am ignorant: is the "59826016708" part of your address?

[JuliusMoltgen]

Originally Posted by Dan.Thies

Thanks, Julius. I have no doubt that if I hand addressed something to that address, you would receive it 99 times out of 100 at worst. Clearly there is something wrong somewhere, and I will keep digging.

I hate to ask, but I am ignorant: is the "59826016708" part of your address?

Hi Dan

It is where one could call by phone - see - At this address there are two houses as you can see on the picture - one is an office and during office hours people are here.
But let's say the postman would not ring the bell, and throw a notification into the letter box and that paper got lost - then someone from the post office here would see that this is a phone number and call and let me know that there is a package for me so that I can pick it up rather than shipping it back to the states.

But here this is probably me filling out the order form correctly - I was probably asked to fill in the phone number and it may or may not have been printed on a label. From how I interpret the message I would assume that that number would have been printed under the word Uruguay on that label.
We don't know since neither you nor I ever got to see the label.

Well I hope it works out better next time.

Take Care Julius

[JuliusMoltgen]

Thanks Dan! I think we can be friends now.

[Dan.Thies]

Thanks, Julius - the reason why I asked is because we're going to find out exactly what prints on the label when we export that data. If it's as silly as that, I don't know whether to be happy or to shoot myself.

[JuliusMoltgen]

I guess the country should have been there if they plan to deliver internationally - the phone number is extra.

Here they make several delivery attempts and the package will only be handed over to a person.

During post office delivery times there are people in my office and in any case they would leave a notice in the letterbox on each delivery attempt telling us where to pick up the item

Failing all that they would call based on what they find in the phone book or the number on the package to make sure we know there is a package.

So the notification would have to get lost twice and the number be unavailable for each of the two deliveries.

Our letterbox is next to the bell and goes through the wall - there is a 3m high iron gate to climb if someone was to climb that gate to get to the contents of my letterbox.

This is summer and in front of the house is the beach promenade with people walking and jogging starting at 6 am until late at night. Climbing over the fence here would not to go unnoticed and besides there are vigilantes to ensure we don't get disturbed.

In any case anything other than a simple letter from overseas gets registered at the border here even if you did not have it registered and someone needs to sign for it.

I still believe these packages did not make it on the boat or on the plane. It is a good idea to investigate "why not" in any case.

[Julia Andersson]

When I first read this thread I thought... why would I want to read about the hassles stompernet had with the launch of stomping the search engines and the 'net effect' magazine.

Guess it just goes to show that I'm not quite thinking as an entrepeneur just yet because the fact is that I can learn a lot by reading the report and seeing the mistakes that were made. Thereby potentially avoiding making those same mistakes myself. It doesn't really matter whether you are dealing with a small number of people or a large one.

And yes, I'm actually a member who received the offer (I guarantee there would be a whole bunch of us on this forum). I know my set took about six weeks to get out... I think they must have sent it by seamail

[joneq]

Originally Posted by Dan.Thies

There will always be some cases that need to be escalated to a higher level of support. Clearly this is such a case. You've got a shipment that the carrier is sending on a round trip to nowhere, and that's going to require some investigation. If this wasn't communicated to you effectively, then we have some work to do to improve that.

What kind of hoops did you have to jump through? The first step the reps need to take in handling these calls is to identify the customer, but other than providing enough information to make that possible, there shouldn't be any hoops. It shouldn't be a hassle to get support, so I would like to hear more about this. You can PM me if you like.

You are understandably not happy because your stuff hasn't arrived. You are understandably unhappy because StomperNet hasn't communicated adequately about how the billing & shipping works. Because of the delays caused by switching to the fulfillment center, the product you were shipped is issue #3. Issue #4 is at the printers, and will begin shipping in early January.

Yes, we have more work to do.

With this many subscribers, there will always be some shipping problems. If we can handle these cases better, of course we want to do better. But there's probably no way to reach out and stop the carrier from doing whatever the heck it is that they are doing with your package, especially on a weekend. We will very likely need to reship it.

Thanks for the PM Dan. I am sorry I said that never called SN in my reply. I did and completely forgot. I did however tell the grl to forget it. I was not waiting till Monday night.

One of the many emails I received from SN support stated they tried to call me and could not get through--Maybe they were trying the wrong number--one of the hoops i had to jump through was giving my number a few times-There also was some difficulty with my email address being understood---after all was said and done she them informed me of the 24 business hr policy which meant Monday at the earliest---I told her to forget it.

The girl was very friendly and courteous and none of it was her fault--she put up with considerable abuse[not really]and never lost her cool--keep her--she is good --keep her...I think she may be working out of her home though..I made 3 consecutive call to her via magic jack [with mic accidently off so she could not hear me ] When she could finally hear me it was like I never called before=pleasant

I do not want to get into the rest of the story other than to say I cancelled my subscription on Monday an 1 hour later I got the net effect in the mail and tried to reinstate my subscription--It was not going to happen--SN is closed to new business. WTF!!!I cancelled my subscripon for a number of reason--none my fault--one certainly being that I might be charged for the next issue before I got the current issue..

Very quickly I got an email saying I was refunded for botht the NE and the DVD---my account is still not showing and credit though [Tuesday night] I have received immediate refunds form others so while it is not particular to SN it is not always the norm to have to wait...


I received multiple emails from multiple people at SN customer service all seemingly very concerned about my problem.. I would have preferred to deal with on rep, but that did not happen--I suggested to Dan they initiate a 1 rep per case if possible and or practical.

Bottom line is I had my subscription cancelled by my request because I got tired of waiting and I cannot reinstate it. I have not yey been refunded the money.The phone call on Friday was handled professionally and the CS team was on top of everything--There were just too many of them and there was a little confusion---Nothing serious

How would I have handled it???--Well--since the package was traceable and SN could easily see it had not been delivered/or it was about to be in a short while. I would have offered the customer the month free of charge [refund] for the inconvenience and tried to get Fex Ex to foot the bill or just eat it--It would not break the SN bank believe me...

I would have suggested to wait till next month and see how it was handled and if it met expectations I would be charged as usual and continue to enjoy SN product. If I still wanted to cancel after the next month [with an appropriately good reason like late delivery] I would not be charged for that month either and my subscription would be cancelled with SN/FedEx apologies..

All in all SN did a decent if not good job in responding to my problem. I wish it turned out differently, but that is life.. SN customer service gets 4 out of 5 stars.

I am also on the list to receive a fresh copy of Nov video of the month because mine did not play

Sorry if this post is a little discombobulated-and many thanks to Dan

[joneq]

PM to me from Dan Thies..

This is the message that was sent:
***************
I've got my work cut out for me, don't I? It's a little bit tricky to keep one rep per case with 24x7 staffing, but with any issues that are escalated to the second level support team, that is definitely the only way to handle it. Thanks for pointing that out.
We will be reopening our shopping cart with the full offer next week, but if you already received the SEO course you wouldn't want that. We will be able to enter orders for returning subscribers manually and we'll have a self-management system online.
The next issue of TNE is scheduled to begin shipping on January 9th, and the DVD a few days later, so if you do want to restart your subscription, you should be able to do that without missing anything. I'll let you know when we're ready.

Thanks Dan--If they told me that they were opening up the shopping cart so soon I would have given 5 stars... I had visions of months at least--

I think 24/7 support is great,but a little disappointing when you cannot get anything reconciled with the first call--it is just to gather information--It would be better if something more than name and phone number was accomplished on the first call--You know something with some meat. That was pretty much why I told the girl to forget it--after I gave all the info I was expecting her to pull up my file or something and get to work on my prob --

Stompernet !!!! You have a good man in Dan Thies------I hope he sticks around...

Thanks Dan....

[Dan.Thies]

Joneq - I have to beg for a little patience on some of the improvements we want to make. I've got 3 phases mapped out and we're approaching the conclusion of the first phase, which is, roughly speaking, about getting the systems to where they should have been in September.

The training we gave the phone reps was intended to give us the greatest gain in a short time - roughly half of the support emails we receive don't contain enough information to identify the customer. Opening the phones up probably shaves a day off the time it takes to resolve a case because we're not emailing back and forth so much.

Unfortunately, getting the phone reps to do more isn't as easy as it should be - yet. To do more than basic lookups, information updates, and status checks with the current "system" actually requires a pretty advanced person who is trained in something like 9 different systems, occasionally writing SQL queries, and other ugly stuff like that.

Once we finish our migration to InfusionSoft, there will be only two systems and it will be practical to train the phone team in a lot more areas. We expect to be managing our customers in Infusionsoft by the end of this week, and we'll be able to tackle some more advanced training beginning next week.

The manager responsible for that is currently up to her neck in InfusionSoft, setting up all the automated follow-up and communications that we didn't have in September, so that when we reopen we won't end up looking like a bunch of jerks again.

I don't think we can afford to "write another case study" so we're spending a lot of time to double and triple check stuff.

My "statistics consultant" just told me that we need to manually check close to 1000 customer records and see 100% accuracy on that sample, to be confident that everything is set up correctly. My napkin math tells me that's about 60 hours worth of work.

I am 99% confident that the "full offer" with STSE2 and the other courses will be available again early next week because it doesn't require new development.

I'm about 90% confident that we'll be able to reactivate subscriptions next week one way or another, even if it's by hand and 99.999% confident that we'll be able to reactivate people during the issue #4 shipment cycle even if it's not next week.

We do have a pretty good stock on issue #3, a halfway decent stack of #2, that stuff is already at the fulfillment center, and there's a meeting later this week on how to handle back issues.

I should have news on a UK customer service number in a day or two. I think it's down to haggling over bits and bauds and cents per minute.

Still working on Skype/VOIP options but that will probably take a couple more weeks. It may end up being a "callback" system where you hit a form and we make an outbound call.

That might not sound like a lot of fun, but this is what I signed up for.

[joneq]

Good to know. Sounds like a plan

Please check the status of my refund..I really would not mind seeing the refund show up in my CC account.. There are only 2 accounts it could be [but I know which one it is]--neither one has the refund showing as of now

Customer Refund Notification

Transaction ID : 2238124538 for $42.37
Transaction ID : 2238125671 for $22.41
Both transacted on 12/29/08 at 7:38 in the morning---2.5 days ago with no weekends [as if it should matter] involved...

Not only am I worried about my refund, or lack of it,but I would not be at all surprised to find SN [not Dan] cancelled/refunded someone else..

[joneq]

Just checked before bedtime and refund is there .. SN made the transaction on 12/29 like they said and it just went through --Good job SN

[JuliusMoltgen]

Same here:

I received the money paid on September 5th back

NET EFFECT JOURNAL NORCROSS 30/12/08 29/12/08 0,00 -19,84
NET EFFECT JOURNAL NORCROSS 30/12/08 29/12/08 0,00 -103,51

Thanks - Now I shall "start again" and we will take it from here.

Should any of these "lost packages" ever arrive here at my office and will post it here.

Happy New Year to you all!

[Jeff Walters]

Hi

I appreciate the feedback - but would have preferred a customer email alert in October regarding the problems being experienced with the shipping company / the reasons for the delay. At R10 to the USD, this a very expensive magazine for me - and it would be great that it isn't just a collectors item when it is eventually delivered

I did receive my original order in October - about 5 weeks delivery - but have not yet seen the October (or November) magazine. I wish SN didn't use snail mail for overseas accounts.

Maybe the Stompernet team should chat to Dan Kennedy - he always seems to get his newsletter to me within the month of publication. SN could tap into his direct mail expertise - Dan knows how to get his mail delivered on time - even to South Africa ...

[JuliusMoltgen]

Hi,

I have the suspicion that some of the fulfillment centers simply don't ship orders they consider likely to get lost and pocket the postage.
Amazon will get its things to me 100%, private packages will arrive too - so do DVD subscriptions. I get these from Mike and Barak.

However during the last year 3-4 packages got lost. All were sent (without tracking) from the US - one from Frank Kern's Outfit, one from Mike Filsaime's and 2 from Stompernet. I have never met anybody in the postal system here who spoke English - so there is little point in stealing at this end.
Jeff Walkers package arrived.

It is just a theory ... but you have to admit that there is a pattern here.

All the Best

Julius

[dmarze]

I think we all should learn something from their mistake and NEVER repeat it.

[Dan.Thies]

Julius, might mean nothing, but I think Mike was using the same fulfillment house we were using. I believe he's also switching, if he hasn't already.

[JuliusMoltgen]

Well - so Stompernet, maybe Mike, maybe Frank ... I got Jeff's. I don't know their logistics and verification proceedure .... it is just strange that ALL of these packages from there to me were lost.

What if there is a system behind this - you (as their client) would believe that mail to here is likely to get lost or that I probably typed in the wrong address.

What would it take to steal the overseas postage on say 100 packages a week - all without tracking to destinations like Asia, Africa or SA - two or three people conspiring?
It is as you said - if you had addressed and posted it - the things would be here.

[Jeff Walters]

Whew!

Finally received October issue. And the November issue - on the same day. Great content and lots to do - so now I don't mind if the next one only arrives in a month's time. Maybe I should ask for another delay

Just means of course that I operate in a time warp - implementing things about 2-3 months after other action-taking readers ... Not perturbed - as this is not faddish stuff - but solid business-building info.

[rajsidhux]

Wondered if anyone else with issues has been told by Stompernet that 'your billing is on hold' as they are doing 'major systems migration'?

Does this mean that NetEffect is not going out to any customers? I have only received issue 1 & 2. No sign of issue 3 (December?).

Anyone? Dan or Andy??