The Power of the WF -- Stompernet magazine launch debacle answered by Andy J.

[IMChick]

Hi, Warriors,

I just opened my email to this from Andy Jenkins and the Stomper team. It's an apology with an analysis and review of what went wrong on their recent print launch.

Make no mistake, this email would not exist without the WF and the many Warrior's thousands of posts in the 'debacle' threads.

Here it is in case you missed it:

Hi, Andy Jenkins here.

I've never had to write an email like this before - and it's
one of the hardest things I've ever had to do at StomperNet.

Back in September, we launched our print journal, The Net
Effect, and offered you a chance to receive our top-of-theline
SEO training program, Stomping the Search Engines 2.0, for no
more than the cost of shipping. Nearly 18,000 of you took us up
on that offer, and although the vast majority of our customers
received the products they ordered without incident, some of
you did not. For that, I apologize.

At this point, we have reshipped thousands of products and every
problem that we are aware of has been resolved.

We've heard some folks out there on the forums are saying that
our customer service team didn't respond to them. While it's
possible that a few emails slipped through the cracks, our team
has responded to X thousand cases since September.

If you are still experiencing any problems at all, you can
reach our support team by email (escalate@stompernet.com) or
call our new 24x7 telephone support line at 404-348-4401. All
issues will be handled promptly.

1. The Short Story

At the end of this email, you'll find a download link for a PDF
file that contains the full story, in agonizing detail, of
everything we did wrong, everything we did right, and what
we've learned from this experience.

My hope is that by sharing this information, we can help some
of you avoid the kind of problems we experienced. In the
meantime, here's the short story. In August, before we made
our offer public, I placed advance orders for 5000 copies of
the Stomping the Search Engines 1 & 2 DVDs, and 5000
copies of Issue 1 of The Net Effect.

We hired what we thought was the best fulfillment house
available, based on recommendations from a lot of other folks
in the online marketing space. We tested the shopping cart. We
had inventory on hand. When we opened our doors for business on
September 5th, we honestly, sincerely believed that we were
ready.

2. How It's Supposed to Work

The process was supposed to be super simple. Our customers
would place orders, the fulfillment house would ship their
orders, and we'd produce additional inventory as needed if we
had underestimated the demand.

Our worst-case scenario was that it might take a couple weeks
to ship orders out, even if we sold out our original inventory
on the first day.

After giving our customers 35-40 days to evaluate The Net
Effect and cancel if they chose to do so, we would begin
shipping issue #2 to our subscribers in mid-October. (* Note:
Although our sales copy described it as a 30-day trial, we
allowed an additional 5 days for domestic and 10 days for
international shipping.)

3. How It Went Wrong

As I said, for the vast majority of our customers (well over
90%), everything did go more or less as it was supposed to.

But when you're dealing with 18,000 people, that's not nearly
good enough.

We could blame it all on the fulfillment house letting us down,
but that doesn't do a darned thing for our customers, and
besides - I'm the genius who hired them. When you do hire the
wrong fulfillment house, that bad decision gets magnified big
time.

You see, when you're shipping physical products, it takes about
3 weeks to even have the slightest inkling of a problem,
because for the first 2-3 weeks, your products are supposed to
be on their way to the customer. By the time you find out that
a whole lot of products were *not* shipped on time, or not
shipped at all... well, the damage is done.

But I'm getting ahead of myself.

4. I'm Sorry

I could go on all day explaining everything that went wrong,
but that wouldn't be fair to those readers who just wanted to
hear me say "I'm sorry." I am. Profoundly so. But I'd like to
tell you the rest of the story - and I think I can make it
worth your while to listen.

So, here's what I've got for you: a 23-page report (PDF) with
the entire blow-by-blow story. Everything that went wrong. How
our team responded. What we learned. The steps we've taken to
make sure that this *never* happens to our customers again.
I'll explain how *you* can avoid making the same mistakes,
and a few things that just might help you do truly amazing
things for your customers.

There are some real gems in this report for anyone who does
business online - including an amazing solution to speed up
international shipments.

You can download that report here - no opt-in, no nothing,
just download it and read.

Thanks for your interest in StomperNet and The Net Effect!

Andy Jenkins
CEO, StomperNet

P.S. For anyone who thought we were going to just disappear...
Not a chance. Issue #3 is shipping now, and we'll be ready to
take on new subscribers in a couple days.

[Tim Dixon]

Wow, thanks for posting that.

I'm downloading that report and settling down for a good read right now!

Tim

[IMChick]

You're welcome. That was a 'launch to learn by', for sure. Very interesting read. Even though it's 90 days after the fact, it's a good case study.

[Josh Anderson]

10% of 18,000 is 1,800.

10% delivery problems is not nearly good enough when you are dealing with 100 people.

When the vocal minority is that massive it definitely causes PR problems.

Interesting read.

[Andy Jenkins]

Wow, you guys are fast. I was going to post the link to the blog and the download of the case study later this afternoon, but ya beat me to it.

For what it's worth, I hope folks get some good information about what TO and what NOT TO DO or take for granted during a launch.

To the comment about this communication being 90 days after the fact, I'll quote directly from the document, because I think it's relevant:

"Why are we releasing this NOW, 90 days after the launch? The answer there is
tied to the previous one. We want you to LEARN from our mistakes and failures.
But there's not much to be gained from knowing about a problem if you don't
have a solution.

In the past 90 days we've taken DRASTIC steps to solve the problems we
experienced in our last launch. These are changes to the fundamental
organization of our company, and I'm VERY excited about how in the coming
months we will exponentially increase our ability to serve and satisfy our
members and customers. "


So, basically, I wanted to have the problems FIXED before I wrote a public document about it, so we could offer the steps that we took to correct the problem - and ultimately add some value and information - rather than just a blanket apology.

Thanks for posting it here. BTW, if anyone STILL has any problems, there's a phone number in the document (to a live operator) that's 24/7. Just ring them up and they'll sort you out.

AJ

[Lance K]

I feel for those that had problems.

But as one who didn't, let me take a moment to say this...

Andy, your team has put together one hell of a print newsletter. I look forward to getting it. So far, more so than any other marketing publication to which I've subscribed. I recieved a shipping notice for issue #3 and am eagerly awaiting it's arrival.

For those of you who bought and had problems or didn't buy because you heard of the problems...this information is 100% ROCK SOLID. Don't short change yourself because the SN folks made an honest mistake. Take them up on their trial if/when you can. YOU'LL BE GLAD YOU DID!

So to Andy and his team, keep up the great work. And nice going on being genuinely remorseful and transparent. If more "gurus" (quotes are for them, not you) would follow your lead, the level of cycnicism in the market would drop dramatically.

[Andy Jenkins]

Lance, thanks a TON. Seriously. Issue 3 is shipping.

[kindsvater]

As a former Stompernet member let me say that its nice to see Andy make a post and apology, but the company problems go far beyond what has been mentioned - and they start right at the top. Andy's partner already posted in the WF some time ago with a lot of excuses.

Personally -

Promised bonuses were not provided.

An intentionally fraudulent credit card charge was made by Stompernet. It had to be forcibly reversed.

False claims by Andy's partner were posted in the WF about customer support. In fact, I had a web page listing various problems with Stompernet and my server log documented Andy's partner's visit where he read them. No response.

Strong words to be sure, but continuing to blame a fulfillment house does not cut it.

But I will say this, the promotional advertising and videos to get you into Stompernet are some of the best marketing I have ever seen. Too bad its just on the front end for prospects.

Here's some ideas for how to better promote a product and service:

- If you promise bonuses - deliver them.

- If you promise customer support email - respond to it.

- If you promise customer support by phone - at least have an answering machine if you decide not to answer any phone calls for weeks.

- If you advertise that this is all encompassing and the only membership you'll ever need, don't try to sell your members a new membership on how to market videos shortly after they subscribe.

- If you advertise that a zillion hours of videos are available for members to view, you may want to mention a "credit" system that prevents someone from viewing more than a few videos each month.

- If you want to use names like Frank Kern to promote your membership, make sure they are actually members and have logged into your site sometime in the last year (especially if you allow members to view other members details - such as when they last logged in.)

- When someone cancels their membership because they haven't received what was promised and no one at customer support can be reached, don't wait almost 2 weeks before responding, and then don't run a charge on their credit card shortly after you respond acknowledging the cancellation and promising that no more charges will be made.

There is a "case study" to be made for sure.

[Black Hat Cat]

18,000 orders. Not a bad problem to have.

[Devan Koshal]

To be honest ive had no problems with stompernet...at all. sure the first package came late but it was free do i wasn't to bothered...i got everything i ordered and i continue too.

they have switched to UPS for international orders ...if im correct... so my order came today and it was shipped on the 16th (i live in the UK so thats good turnaround lol)

The only real issue i have is that the cd cases come cracked...disks are fine though.

[blase40]

Thanks for posting this, and thanks for dropping by Andy. I received volume 2 of the Net Effect a few days ago along with the second DVD of the month.

I have to say these guys are going above and beyond with their DVDs of the month for all of you that dont get them. This month's has about 4 hours of excellent content. The Rich Schefren presentation alone is priceless.

[IMChick]

Originally Posted by Andy Jenkins

Wow, you guys are fast. I was going to post the link to the blog and the download of the case study later this afternoon, but ya beat me to it.

AJ

HA! You've got to get up pretty early in the morning to keep up with everything on the WF!

[Andy Jenkins]

IMChick, more like "Don't go to bed or leave my desk" to keep up with WF.

kindsvater, shoot me an email at andyjenkins@stompernet.com - we can get on the phone and see what is amiss - clearly, there's no reason you should have had those kinds of issues. I'll take care of what ever issues you had.

And no, I'm not my partner. Brad has clearly moved himself along to other things, so I apologize if he miss-represented anything to you.

[Rod Cortez]

I can't remember how many times I've had poor customer service before and after the sale. It's refreshing to see Andy come in here and not only explain what happened, apologize for it, not overly blame someone else, and turn it into a learning experience when he could have chosen the path that most people do - to ignore it. I've dealt with my share of fulfillment debacles so can understand a lot of what he was saying. Kudos.

RoD

[Leanne King]

Thanks for posting this I didn't get the email even though I am a subscriber to the Net Effect. When I was reviewing my subscriptions the other day I was trying to decide if I should keep this newsletter or not. I really like it and enjoy reading it so will probably stay with it but Andy.... if you are still there can you make it come faster to Australia

Leanne

[Andy Jenkins]

Leanne - all international orders are now going out via Omni-Ship (It's explained in the doc), so the MAX time for delivery (according to the company that does it) is 7 days to anywhere in the world. It's a bit more expensive, but for the saved headaches, we just ate the increase.

The emails are still coming - just dripping them out over time - being a little cautious. Once bitten, twice freaked-out.

[IMChick]

Originally Posted by Lance K

For those of you who bought and had problems or didn't buy because you heard of the problems...this information is 100% ROCK SOLID. Don't short change yourself because the SN folks made an honest mistake. Take them up on their trial if/when you can. YOU'LL BE GLAD YOU DID!

So, IF they're seriously sorry, AND the product is as solid as it's mythos indicates, it would make sense to market to former botched-launch customers on this. Since a huge number of us are still smarting after that last launch, offer a great monetary incentive to try the magazine again. Not opt-in bonuses, no other junk, money off, and let the market decide. Just my idea.

[Andy Jenkins]

We are, and we will do a "Rescue Pissed Customers" campaign. InfusionSoft is just about ready to go - there's some further testing that needs to be done (again, not taking any chances this time), and we'll notify customers who canceled how they can pick up where they left off.

Apology First. Then we'll do some (cough) marketing.

[IMChick]

Originally Posted by kindsvater

As a former Stompernet member let me say that its nice to see Andy make a post and apology, but the company problems go far beyond what has been mentioned - and they start right at the top. Andy's partner already posted in the WF some time ago with a lot of excuses.

Personally -

Promised bonuses were not provided.

An intentionally fraudulent credit card charge was made by Stompernet. It had to be forcibly reversed.

False claims by Andy's partner were posted in the WF about customer support. In fact, I had a web page listing various problems with Stompernet and my server log documented Andy's partner's visit where he read them. No response.

Strong words to be sure, but continuing to blame a fulfillment house does not cut it.

But I will say this, the promotional advertising and videos to get you into Stompernet are some of the best marketing I have ever seen. Too bad its just on the front end for prospects.

Here's some ideas for how to better promote a product and service:

- If you promise bonuses - deliver them.

- If you promise customer support email - respond to it.

- If you promise customer support by phone - at least have an answering machine if you decide not to answer any phone calls for weeks.

- If you advertise that this is all encompassing and the only membership you'll ever need, don't try to sell your members a new membership on how to market videos shortly after they subscribe.

- If you advertise that a zillion hours of videos are available for members to view, you may want to mention a "credit" system that prevents someone from viewing more than a few videos each month.

- If you want to use names like Frank Kern to promote your membership, make sure they are actually members and have logged into your site sometime in the last year (especially if you allow members to view other members details - such as when they last logged in.)

- When someone cancels their membership because they haven't received what was promised and no one at customer support can be reached, don't wait almost 2 weeks before responding, and then don't run a charge on their credit card shortly after you respond acknowledging the cancellation and promising that no more charges will be made.

There is a "case study" to be made for sure.

I agree with Brian.

I originally posted this email for informational purposes. I thought I could be neutral on the company itself and it's underlying issues. But...I can't, I have some rough experience guiding me. I'm also a former stomper with many of the same issues and concerns that were outlined in this post. I don't see how they can be 'fixed' with a phone call.

Knowing how to run a company is as much of a skill -- and requires its own kind of specialized expertise -- as knowing how to develop a product or a successful launch. In this, they have proven to be lacking on numerous occasions. But points go to the guy who gets right back up on the horse and tries again, or goes on the WF to explain a bit behind the scenes.

"Case study" indeed. I could not run my businesses like this and get away with it.

[IMChick]

Originally Posted by Andy Jenkins

We are, and we will do a "Rescue Pissed Customers" campaign. InfusionSoft is just about ready to go - there's some further testing that needs to be done (again, not taking any chances this time), and we'll notify customers who canceled how they can pick up where they left off.

Apology First. Then we'll do some (cough) marketing.

Great idea, glad I thought of it second. I'll look forward to it. Many of us didn't get past the ahem, 'other' issues to be able to fairly evaluate the content.

[Leanne King]

Thanks Andy I have the first two issues now (after they came by canoe ) I guess I'll just have to wait and see how long the shipping is for Issue No. 3. I really like the magazine btw, my only issue is the long delay in waiting for it to arrive.

I enjoyed reading your pdf as well.

I should also say that I was one of the Pissed Off Customers originally but when Brad posted his email address in this forum I used it. I've said it before in another thread he was absolutely fantastic in getting everthing sorted out, keeping me in the loop etc which is why I didn't hit the cancel button. I'm glad I didn't because, as I've said, I like the magazine. You know you could solve these problems just by doing a digital download ... hint, hint

Leanne

[Andy Jenkins]

Gang, I know no one is going to be all that impressed with an email and a pdf. I have no illusions about mending what happened with just words.

To the post from Kindsvater, I do NOT want to start an argument here, as customers are entitled to feel however they want to feel. With that said, there are some things in that post that are simply NOT StomperNet policy. Of course, a mistake could have been made, but it's not intentional. Pissing people off is not a sound strategy to grow anything, let alone a company like ours. So, yes - it's clear that you had issues. I'm not disputing that.

What I'm disputing is how you present the product here. The "New Membership" on how to promote videos IS part of StomperNet, for example. The Credit System does not offer a FEW videos per month, it offers more than you could watch if you sat at your desk for 4 hours a day, for example. Frank Kern is not mentioned ANYWHERE in our sales copy, but when he promoted, he probably mentioned that he WAS a faculty member, for example. If you didn't get your bonuses, got charged in error, or had bad customer service, there's no excuse for that - and the buck stops with me. No buts, no extenuating circumstances - it simply happens once in a while and I don't like it anymore than you.

All I wanted to do was offer an outlet for you to contact me to see if I could sort out YOUR issues. Overall, StomperNet self-corrects constantly, and once in a while, it corrects because of feedback.

Where this Stomping the Search Engines 2 launch was concerned, I know that I've lost a ton of credibility in the market. I'm not going to simply leave it at that. I'm fixing it, improving it, and talking about it.

The alternative is to do...nothing. Why do that? I LIKE what I do. I LOVE my customers and have more life-long friends who are that than I do other relationships.

But, it's clear your upset, and were I in your shoes, I wouldn't blame you. Again, sorry for the issues. I can try to fix them if you're interested - and I'll make sure we do better in the future.

Other than that, I'll continue to take my licks and offer the very best advice that I am capable of giving on this or any topic.

If anyone has any suggestions...

[Shaun OReilly]

Well done on producing a high-quality report and analysis
of what happened, what went right, what went wrong and
more importantly what was learned from the process.

Looking at the problem and providing solutions is great.

However, the time for making an apology is NOT 90-days
after the event.

The time to apologize for the unforseen challenges is as
soon after they've happened as possible.

Even if you don't have a solution to present at the time.

I think that the biggest lesson from this is to use all
channels to communicate with your customers and keep
them informed of progress.

Hey - you're in the arena. Mistakes are bound to happen.

It's how you respond to them that counts.

Dedicated to your success,

Shaun

[IMChick]

Any prizes for posting you on the first page of the WF? Oh, the horror...

Seriously, it looks like the reevaluation and regrouping has begun to push the team back on the right path from what I saw in the email and pdf (hence, the post), even thought it looks like a nightmare from your vantage point.

And no matter which side of the issues you're on, it took guts to do it.

[Andy Jenkins]

IMChick - Sorry, just finished a 90 minute webinar.

You've got my email address. (Wink)

[Dan.Thies]

Shaun,

Stompernet has been entirely focused on resolving individual customers' issues, which has required "all hands on deck."

It's not as if this has been ignored for 90 days - but I agree... apologizing to people who have had a problem and trying to help them individually isn't the same thing as a public statement.

While I tend to agree with you in the general sense that a public response earlier might have served the aims of the organization better, it would not have done anything to help customers who were affected by fulfillment or shipping problems.

That required focused effort and management attention, which could only be diverted by some kind of PR effort.

It's just not that simple in the age of Twitter. Saying something in public generates a response across hundreds of channels, and you can't be present in all those conversations.

If Stompernet had been putting out weekly messages saying "we know some people have had problems, and we're working on it" - how would that play on Twitter, the Warrior Forum, etc?

[Andy Jenkins]

Dan kinda beat me to that response - we DID work with customers directly who had issues and worked specifically on their needs to solve them.

I thought and still do think that "going public" AFTER concentrating our effort on the people that were having problems was the right thing to do.

Time will tell, I suppose. But I do see Shaun's point.

[tomw]

Andy and Dan,

Yeah, the fulfillment house f*cked up. Yeah, the server crashed. Yeah, it took about eight weeks for me to get my stuff here in the UK. Yeah, it rained on my birthday! Sh*t happens.

But you know what?

The information you guys gave away was just fantastic. What has been lost in all of this is the tremendous value you guys gave at a mind blowingly tiny price. You offer was amazing. Hence the volume of take up. Despite the CS issues, people need to realise that the Net Effect launch was an amazing exercise in giving tremendous value to customers. Some key components of an $800/month membership where basically given away at a no brainer price point in order to trial the best magazine in the industry.

What else can you do to make people happy?

OK more people answering the damn phones and emails. A little better contingency planning...maybe

But all in all, I have never been happier with the content of a product in the internet marketing space before. I'm sure most of your customers feel the same.

Coming out and apologising shows some real class as well as what must have been a massive effort to put things right when you could have taken a half-assed approach and made another movie with all the money

Thanks for the report I read it and yes, learned something, which, after all, is what it's all about.

Take it easy guys, and I look forward to the next big launch, which sounds like being not too far away

Thomas

[Andy Jenkins]

Thanks for the support Tom. I'm sorry to say that once I saw your profile picture, I can't get "Wake Me Up Before You Go-Go" out of my head.

You Ladykiller, you....

There's also a little Freddie Mercury thing going on there. Damn, if I had those looks....

[tomw]

Originally Posted by Andy Jenkins

Thanks for the support Tom. I'm sorry to say that once I saw your profile picture, I can't get "Wake Me Up Before You Go-Go" out of my head.

You Ladykiller, you....

There's also a little Freddie Mercury thing going on there. Damn, if I had those looks....

Thanks...erm I think!

My girlfriends a photographer and pretty insistent on the photos she *makes* me use publicly

I thought you guys looked pretty slick in the launch videos...I thought I was watching Jake and Elwood for a minute

Guess you'll be in the movies as well as behind them soon

Thomas

[Leanne King]

@Thomas I agree totally I love the magazine plus all the free going natural vids.

I can manage to stuff up simple links on a WSO so I would hate to think what I could do if I was behind a launch this big!

Leanne

[tomw]

Andy...

P.S. Thanks for totally blowing my credibility...I don't think I'll ever live down those comments!

[TheInternetWorkshop]

Thank you for taking time to post here yourself (or one of your reps )

I've been on the WF a little over month now and read quite a few threads every day. One thing I've noticed is too many people create threads or post in threads with nothing but negative comments (I assume just to get their post numbers to look high) with NO CLUE about the real life situation behind the post.

I would bet $10,000 that none of the folks who posted ever had to do a product launch the size of yours. 18,000 (with only projections of 5,000) ain't nothing to sneeze at. Did you do some things wrong? Maybe. Could some things have been avoided? Probably. I'm looking forward to reading the report. (See comment about that below...)

Bottom line - "he/she without sin cast the first stone". I stopped throwing rocks a long time ago when I learned it's easy to criticize, but even easier to support.

I hope that if some of those who post here ever launch their own product (which I highly doubt they ever will) that they hold themselves to the same standard they're holding you to.

And, as a side note, you could have EASILY turned your free report into a paid product. I sure at least 1800 of your 18,000 customers would pay $37 for a live case study of a product launch, complete with success stories and "failures", and do's and don'ts. So the fact you're giving it away free says something. Thought you deserved credit for that.

Hopefully the angry mob will put their stones down for a few minutes...

The Crazy Internet Dude

[drmani]

Where this Stomping the Search Engines 2 launch was concerned, I know
that I've lost a ton of credibility in the market. I'm not going to simply
leave it at that. I'm fixing it, improving it, and talking about it.

The alternative is to do...nothing. Why do that? I LIKE what I do. I LOVE my
customers and have more life-long friends who are that than I do other
relationships.

Andy, you personally? No, you haven't lost credibility.

The company? Yes.

I've still a lot of respect for you, as a person. It takes guts to come
out and say this, accept responsibility and offer to fix anything that's
still broken.

And then, point to what you've done about it.

One thing you could have done differently is responded this way EARLIER.
Much earlier. THAT would have soothed MANY ruffled feathers, and kept
many more people engaged and supportive of your company.

But hey, water under the bridge. We live and learn. And you can still
congratulate yourself on being at the head of a passionate tribe - which
is the key to success in today's fragmented market situation.

Just my 2 cents.

@Dan.Thies:

Stompernet has been entirely focused on resolving individual customers' issues, which has required "all hands on deck."

Simple solution? Hire MORE hands.

...and you can't be present in all those conversations.

Ah, but you must! It's hard, no doubt.

No excuses for delayed communication in today's networked marketplace, I'm
afraid. Shaun is SPOT ON with what went wrong in the BIGGEST way!

All success
Dr.Mani

[Dan.Thies]

Dr. Mani,

We could debate this for years and never agree, because the fundamental choice here wasn't whether to hire more people (did that), communicate with *customers* (did that), etc.

The fundamental choice that Andy made was to focus first, second, and third on doing what was right for customers, and worry about the "public relations" and marketing later. You may not agree with that decision. I may not even agree with it, but it's a conscious decision based on principle.

Look up "opportunity cost" because that's what this is about.

It is not possible to be present in every conversation. You can spend a lot of time and be present in a lot of channels, but every hour spent on *that* is an hour that you do not spend on something else.

This discussion alone, on this one forum, will cost hours.

Some things can't be fixed by throwing more bodies at the problem. You have to recognize that the bandwidth of management and leadership assets is limited.

Whether Andy made the right decision for the business, we will simply never know. You can't split test these things. But I know why he made the decision - his default position is to put customers first. I will not argue with that.

Again - agree or disagree, it's up to you, but it's very easy to tell other people what they should have done. In real life, tradeoffs exist, and unlimited resources and time are not so easy to find.

[drmani]

Originally Posted by Dan.Thies

Look up "opportunity cost" because that's what this is about.

Dan, that's so patronizing (I *know* what opportunity cost is, no need to "look up" it, thank you!) - and typical of the style/tone of communication that's come out of the company - and which I *think/feel* (yes, PERSONAL opinion) was what most people were reacting to.

See this, too:

Money.Power.Wisdom - You Matter - That’s Why…

All success
Dr.Mani

[Dan.Thies]

Mani, apologies if I seemed patronizing, but actually that was very much how I took your post.

When you say things like "simple solution - hire more hands" as if we wouldn't know better... it's hard to take it any other way.

[Nathan Hangen]

In this day and age, people expect "perfect" customer service, and often that is impossible to give. In the absence of this, the "perception" that you are doing your best will go a long way to keep relationships alive. I don't know what happened here because I didn't buy the product, but sometimes **** happens and you have to move on.

I didn't buy the course because I'm not the type to pay that much for internet marketing materials, but if you did then maybe you should evaluate if you got what you paid for once the product was actually delivered.

From their responses, I am guessing that Stompernet learned a valuable customer service lesson that will only improve the experience from here on out.

The IM crowd is a tough one to cater too, and this is an obvious example. Everyone is an expert on a forum.

I guess the takeaway is that no matter what, customer service needs to be #1...I sell physical products online and will always go up to the point of losing money if necessary to keep a customer happy.

#2...be a reasonable customer and know that people make mistakes. Things are never as easy as they seem. If you don't enjoy the experience, get a refund...if that doesn't work then you need to escalate the problem.

[pearsonbrown]

Just when I was beginning to feel I'd been a bit unfair to Stompernet, Dan shows up with his arrogance and his patronising attitude to Dr Mani and persuades me I was right to be angry with them.

The fact is that they are charging a premium price for a magazine. That means that they should be expected to get both the content and the delivery right. The content has been fine but the delivery was poor for me. Charging my credit card the best part of 4 weeks before I get the magazine is not acceptable.

Pearson

[Paul Myers]

I think one of the biggest problems in this industry is the belief on the part of too many people in it that communication can and must be constant, immediate and universal.

When things break, it can take time to find the problem. It can take more time to address it with the people directly affected - the paying customers and the affiliates. And then there's more time coming up with appropriate fixes to the system, to prevent recurrence.

Things will always break, no matter how carefully you prepare. The world is full of sharp corners and things to stumble over. Resenting that is just foolish. It's part of reality, and it's not going to go away, no matter how many unrealistic people demand that it does.

The question that matters is how you deal with it when things break.

I am one of the people who ordered and had no problems. (At least I don't think I did. I haven't watched the videos yet.) Had I encountered any, I'd have been more interested in seeing that they were addressing individual customer issues than in whether they were broadcasting serial mea culpas to World+Dog.

There are choke points in every process. Places where the resources available limit the choices one can realistically make. Dan pointed out one that is rarely considered: management's bandwidth.

That limit isn't one that's going to go away. Ever. It is the resource that was needed to provide the explanation some of you decided should have been given earlier.

What I find interesting is that a few people here seem more interested in using that bandwidth for public apology, and explanations to every random stranger on the net, than in customer service.

Consider: John Reese had problems with the TS2 launch. Apologizing publicly and explaining the situation just got people here griping louder and making accusations of fraud and incompetence. Anyone remember that?

This place used to be so rife with this crap that very few serious businesspeople would have anything to do with it. It wasn't worth the hassle. That had started to change, but it's sliding back.

We often hear people talking about the power of the Warrior Forum. I would hate to see that power be characterized as coming from a lynch mob. Again.

Yes, it's only a small part of the group. The fact that so few people stand up and renounce them is the truly bothersome aspect of the thing.

If you had a problem with them and they fixed it, what's the beef? If you had a problem and it wasn't properly addressed, what does that have to do with public apologies? Andy's said he'd address it personally.

If you didn't have a problem with them, you aren't owed a damned thing. Including an explanation.

We all just need to grow up and get over ourselves.


Paul

[Paul Myers]

Pearson,

Just when I was beginning to feel I'd been a bit unfair to Stompernet, Dan shows up with his arrogance and his patronising attitude to Dr Mani and persuades me I was right to be angry with them.

Normally, I tend to find myself agreeing with you. On this one, not so much.

Read Mani's comments to Dan again.

My first thought on reading them was, "Does he think he's talking to a child?"


Paul

[IMChick]

Paul, There is no argument that this launch failed miserably and left many angry IM-ers typing furiously on the WF. It was 'instructive' to read the Failure to Launch pdf analysis put out by the team.

However, the greater problem is not us 'getting over ourselves', rather, it is the snotty arrogance and patronizing attitude of Dan Theis to Dr. Mani. That about sums it up, in my view.

[Paul Myers]

There is no argument that this launch failed miserably

By what standard? Seems to have been a wild success, with some significant challenges that affected a noticeable fraction of the customers. The problem isn't that there were mistakes, it's that the Stomper folks worked on fixing things with their customers, rather than the general public.

and left many angry IM-ers typing furiously on the WF.

Yeah. I know. I read them. It doesn't take much to get people typing furiously here.

However, the greater problem is not us 'getting over ourselves'

No? Read the title of this thread. That is hubris of a particularly serious brand.

rather, it is the snotty arrogance and patronizing attitude of Dan Theis to Dr. Mani. That about sums it up, in my view.

You want to talk about arrogance? Here's a quote from the post that Mani suggested Dan read:

“Frankly, my dear, no one gives a damn! We want to know we matter. We want to know you care. We want to feel cherished, respected, acknowledged.

And to the extent you can do it, you win (and so do I).

When you fail, we’ll condemn and criticize you, we’ll gleefully tear you down - because we don’t like you rubbing it in our faces that you’re oh-so-greater than us!”

Sure. It's supposed to be about the customer. But customers are supposed to be adults, at least the ones in this industry. Patience and sanity are generally good things in which to indulge. But that last line...

If we don't get what we want, the way we want it, we'll "gleefully tear you down."

Those are not the words of a responsible, civilized adult. Those are the words of a child in the supermarket, who wants the candy, dammit, and wants it NOW!

I don't even want to imagine the mind of someone who could take pleasure in tearing someone or something down just because they felt neglected. That's just... obscene.

Nobody at Stomper rubbed anything in anyone's faces that I've ever seen. And using the fact that Dan responded to Mani in the same tone that Mani initiated is hardly an explanation for anything that happened prior to that post.

I have enormous respect for a lot of the things that Mani does. He makes the kind of difference for many people that very few of us ever will. That doesn't mean he gets a free pass when he talks down to people who are trying to do the right thing.


Paul

[tomw]

Paul,

for some reason the thanks button has disappeared for me and so I write rather than click.

I have to agree with every point you have made in all three of your posts. None more so than the "hubris" observation and the fact that, for many, their judgment is a little clouded when it comes to regarding and analysing some of the things that Dr. Mani wrote here, by being aware of many of the wonderful things that he does elsewhere. The two things can indeed be considered independently. I thought he was pretty fair to Andy, but you're right, it was understandable for Dan to feel patronised.

Thanks for the perspective.

Thomas

[Paul Myers]

Thomas,

The two things can indeed be considered independently.

I would go so far as to say they have to be.

We all make mistakes. I've probably made a lifetime's worth myself in just the past two years. Anything I've done which might be useful to others doesn't make those mistakes any less significant. Likewise, the mistakes don't make the contributions less useful.

If we don't keep those things separate, it's just as easy for someone to say, "I don't like what Mani said, so I'm going to discount his good work" as it is to say, "He does great things, so I'm going to ignore his mistakes." And that would be both unfortunate and unjust.

This is true of all of us. We are not defined by one or another part of our characters or sets of actions, but rather by the sum of those things.

Which is, not coincidentally, the point.


Paul

[tomw]

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Thomas,I would go so far as to say they have to be.

We all make mistakes. I've probably made a lifetime's worth myself in just the past two years. Anything I've done which might be useful to others doesn't make those mistakes any less significant. Likewise, the mistakes don't make the contributions less useful.

If we don't keep those things separate, it's just as easy for someone to say, "I don't like what Mani said, so I'm going to discount his good work" as it is to say, "He does great things, so I'm going to ignore his mistakes." And that would be both unfortunate and unjust.

This is true of all of us. We are not defined by one or another part of our characters or sets of actions, but rather by the sum of those things.

Which is, not coincidentally, the point.


Paul

Once again you more eloquently articulate and enunciate the point I was trying to make.

Even though you've got quite a head start on me, I will catch you one day...and I will be carrying something very special from the Isle of Islay in my hand.



Thomas

[Paul Myers]

Thomas,

the Isle of Islay

Isn't that, like, a beauty cream?

Sorry. Redneck. Never touch the stuff.


Paul

[tomw]

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Thomas,Isn't that, like, a beauty cream?

Sorry. Redneck. Never touch the stuff.


Paul

LOL! Possibly the finest single malts in the world are created there! Although they are so smooth they'd probably help out a neglected complexion.

Thomas

[Paul Myers]

Thomas,

LOL! Possibly the finest single malts in the world are created there! Although they are so smooth they'd probably help out a neglected complexion.

Oh! You mean like... Laphroaig? The stuff you can't even get here, without breaking import laws?

Ummm... Okay. But don't tell JT.


Paul

[Josh Anderson]

At this time I have not yet received everything they offered me. This after unanswered customer service requests forced a personal email to Brad from me that did get results but unfortunately never ended up in me receiving all that I was offered.

I harbor no hard feelings toward Any or Brad or even their company.

While I can respect them... I am not a satisfied customer.

Pursuing it is not worth any more of my time and I understand %$&* happens. That's what the report is about.

I cannot say that I have never had delivery problems in my own operations and so I can relate to both sides of the issue ;-)

But if anyone is inclined to try to ridicule, discredit, or berate the "whiners" and "complainers" who were paying customers and did not get all they were promised...

Just realize you do not have the full picture and I can honestly say that I am sure Andy does not have the full picture either after reading his report because there is some stuff that just doesn't jell with my own experience.