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15 years ago

Hmmmm. No comments. ?

I'm starting to wonder if most Warriors are more willing to spend $27 on the latest and greatest WSO than to invest an hour to dissect what a 7-figure marketer is doing to earn a life-changing income....

?

Ken

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Nick Brighton

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Ken Preuss

Hmmmm. No comments. ?

I'm starting to wonder if most Warriors are more willing to spend $27 on the latest and greatest WSO than to invest an hour to dissect what a 7-figure marketer is doing to earn a life-changing income....

?

Ken

No offence Ken, but this is a little obnoxious. Perhaps some people are too busy actually doing what you advised, or maybe they are too busy learning what they've bought, or maybe they are just not really connecting with you.

I totally understand what you're saying and 100% agree, but some may see this as a little vague, particularly if they haven't been "following" any launches recently.

I presume you must be talking about folks like Frank Kern, who's launch yesterday was outstanding, considering it felt so low key leading up to it (with so little hype and so much buzz).

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LegitIncomes 15 years ago

Nice post Ken!

I do this in non IM niches.

I find successful businesses, watch what they do, how they do it, etc...figure out if I can do it myself. If so, I start a new business in the same niche as those successful businesses. It works quite well.
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Ken Preuss

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Nick Brighton

No offence Ken, but this is a little obnoxious. Perhaps some people are too busy actually doing what you advised, or maybe they are too busy learning what they've bought, or maybe they are just not really connecting with you.

I totally understand what you're saying and 100% agree, but some may see this as a little vague, particularly if they haven't been "following" any launches recently.

I presume you must be talking about folks like Frank Kern, who's launch yesterday was outstanding, considering it felt so low key leading up to it (with so little hype and so much buzz).

Point taken. However there have been dozens of threads here about all the recent launches, Kern's included.

Obnoxious as anyone may see it, my point still stands that most people are completely missing what's in front of them. These marketers are literally showing everyone the "how" step-by-step.

Ken

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Nick Brighton

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Ken Preuss

Point taken. However there have been dozens of threads here about all the recent launches, Kern's included.

Obnoxious as anyone may see it, my point still stands that most people are completely missing what's in front of them. These marketers are literally showing everyone the "how" step-by-step.

Ken

I agree, and that is precisely how the "gurus" learned the trade. Almost every interview I hear with some of the more popular big guns that talk about getting started, all say to study who is making the money and how they are doing it...instead of buying guides and courses.

It's one hell of an irony though, as most of these folks then go on to sell you their guide.lol.

I'll buy stuff from certain folks all day long, and 30% of that motivation to buy is to watch how I am being sold.

Plus, I have trained myself to pay attention when my urge to buy flicks on, whilst being presold, because that is where the magic is happening.

For example, I can still remember buying Desperate Buyers Only after reading a blog post from, Chris Rempel...but before I bought it I actually bookmarked his blog post because it did such a great job of preselling me.

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Magic Johnson

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Ken Preuss

Point taken. However there have been dozens of threads here about all the recent launches, Kern's included.

Obnoxious as anyone may see it, my point still stands that most people are completely missing what's in front of them. These marketers are literally showing everyone the "how" step-by-step.

Ken

Yes, I agree with you. I'm one who have struggled with this and over come it. I believe its part of the fact that most dont have a stable plateform and want to be all things to all people, and are afraid to be rejected. The listen to other people and all that "do to other what you want..." and you end up living your life on other peoples terms than your own.

I buried my fears and all untrue info that's spoon fed us. I say 80% of all school stuff will get you no where. Then 20% is half truths.

Just bury all this "most do because they do" and Most "listen because you "should listen"

I haven't even put up any christmas decorations yet. I probably not will. It's good to free myself from "all this society" responsebilities. Because they have been nagging me for 2 decades.

Thank you very good post, as always!

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Nightengale 15 years ago

Originally Posted by Ken Preuss

...most people are completely missing what's in front of them. These marketers are literally showing everyone the "how" step-by-step.

Ken

Excellent point. And you're right. It IS a mindset shift to move from looking at something from a customer's point of view to one of a "co-marketer." Dan Kennedy urges entrepreneurs to choose someone who's successful doing what you want to do and study them, copy them. Just be careful who you copy!

Focus is key too and I don't think it's talked about enough here. It's so easy to jump from one thing to the next and never stick to one thing long enough to see results.

Personally, I've chosen one marketer whom I admire very much and have chosen to model her. I bought her (very high-priced) marketing course earlier this year and have committed to buying nothing more (other than stuff needed to operate like hosting, autorepsonders, etc.) until I see results with what I've got.

I love to learn new things and buy good information. I'm not just after the next get-rich-quick scheme, but I truly love to study direct-response marketing and have bought a LOT of stuff on the subject over the years. So it's hard for me to stop.

But I'm committed to a new directon in my business and I'm excited to see what 2009 will bring.

Michelle
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tomw

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Ken Preuss

Hmmmm. No comments. ?

I'm starting to wonder if most Warriors are more willing to spend $27 on the latest and greatest WSO than to invest an hour to dissect what a 7-figure marketer is doing to earn a life-changing income....

?

Ken

With the greatest respect, I think it may be because of something you and I have touched upon before. People need to be lead not cajoled, dragged or bullied. As a former high school teacher you surely know this phrase,

"teach don't preach"

or even

"show don't tell."

One way of achieving this may be to "show" the million dollar marketing funnel from a "Million Dollar Strategist" such as yourself. Show people how to copy your success. Show them how to adapt your core ideas and processes to benefit their own businesses. Show them how to make a success of themselves.

In the UK, an age old aphorism has been exploited pretty well in an exceptionally successful advertising campaign created by someone that can only be described as a marketing genius

The campaign is based upon this single thought,

"Those that can, teach."

So...over to you.

Thomas

[edit: I also think your OP was great...just like most of your others...I'm just answering the question posed in the quoted post.]

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Ken Preuss

15 years ago

Originally Posted by tomw

With the greatest respect, I think it may be because of something you and I have touched upon before. People need to be lead not cajoled, dragged or bullied. As a former high school teacher you surely know this phrase,

"teach don't preach"

or even

"show don't tell."

One way of achieving this may be to "show" the million dollar marketing funnel from a "Million Dollar Strategist" such as yourself. Show people how to copy your success. Show them how to adapt your core ideas and processes to benefit their own businesses. Show them how to make a success of themselves.

In the UK, an age old aphorism has been exploited pretty well in an exceptionally success advertising campaign created by someone that can only be described as a marketing genius

The campaign is based upon this single thought,

"Those that can, teach."

So...over to you.

Thomas

[edit: I also think your OP was great...just like most of your others...I'm just answering the question posed in the quoted post.]

Great advice as always. Much appreciated.

Ken

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Frank Donovan 15 years ago

Ken,

I believe you could almost chart your progress in IM from the time your mindset changes from one of "consumer" to one of "player".

Every major launch sparks a lengthy thread on the forum and the posts make interesting reading.

Those with a "consumer" mindset tend to ask questions such as "Does this product work?" or "Is it worth the money?"; whereas a "player" will usually focus on analysing the marketing method underlying the product launch itself.

And the process is often where the most valuable lesson is to be found.

The sooner someone makes this mindset transition, the faster their real success will come.

Frank
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traces2757

15 years ago

I definitely took notice, Ken. This is something I've been coming to a realization about. E-books on how to make money are fine, but you can learn so much just by observing.

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Michael Oksa

15 years ago

Hi Ken,

I'll be one of the first to respond, with a question.

What specifically are you talking about?

If you're talking about posts here in the forum, then some links to those would help, because not everyone reads every single post.

All the best,
Michael

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JayXtreme

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Michael Oksa

Hi Ken,

I'll be one of the first to respond, with a question.

What specifically are you talking about?

If you're talking about posts here in the forum, then some links to those would help, because not everyone reads every single post.

All the best,
Michael

He's talking about studying the ins, outs, upsells, downsells, back ends and more of the marketing funnel during launches and Guru plays..

We did quite the dissection on stompernet not too long ago... To me.. the sexy part is in the marketing..

I have learned more from observing the funnel than I could in most products

BRAVO Ken!!/... again

Peace

Jay

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JayXtreme

15 years ago

p.s. Remember folks.. you can bookmark and save every single step of a funnel for studying later..

Even screen capture it

Peace

Jay

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Ken Preuss 15 years ago

Originally Posted by JayXtreme

p.s. Remember folks.. you can bookmark and save every single step of a funnel for studying later..

Even screen capture it

Peace

Jay

EXACTLY. Someone who gets it. I knew I liked you Jay.

The best part? None of what these guys do is rocket science!

With rare exceptions it's all extremely basic stuff. It's the way they combine the elements that give it so much power.

Ken
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Steven Carl Kelly

15 years ago

Learn more from what people do, not so much from what they say.

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Dan.Thies

15 years ago

Ken, your original post was outstanding. I have no idea why nobody jumped on it. But I wouldn't take it personally. I didn't reply to it either because I was sitting here thinking. When you can make people think, that's still a pretty good day.

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IMChick

15 years ago

Ken, you caused a wave of thinking over here with your OP. Sorry for the delay in posting this, but I was just looking at screen captures in one of my recent launch folders, and forgot about answering you till just now.

One of the first IM courses I went through taught me what a 'swipe file' was. I thought that was great, and coupled with the coaching to show the steps of a current major launch, it was gold. Deconstructing a launch is more valuable than any ebook in my estimation.

Your post hit it right on the head. Thanks!

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Dan.Thies

15 years ago

Ken's point about the mindset shift is really powerful.

I go through the buying process with every "lead product" offer anyone does - not because I am actually going to read Mike Filsaime's free+shipping document, or watch Frank Kern's free+shipping DVD or whatever... I do it to capture what they are doing.

StomperNet's "Stomping the Search Engines / Net Effect" offer in September has drawn plenty of attention because of the fulfillment issues that happened.

But anyone who actually captured the checkout sequence has a blueprint for how to do the upsells & downsells in a minimally obnoxious way, with only 3 steps to check out, that literally caused double the normal uptake rate on upsells.

The success of that selling system was one of the primary root causes of the fulfillment issues - but if you want to sell a lot of stuff, you could learn a lot from how that cart was set up.

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ExRat

15 years ago

Hi,

When anyone mentions 'study what they do', it seems that everyone then assumes that the important stuff is -

a) the sales page
b) how they do the upsells
c) and everything else that is in plain sight

In many situations, this is important. But with an IM product launch to IMers, I don't believe that it's those things that have the 'mass control' effect. I believe that it's the stuff Kern doesn't mention (perhaps not even in his courses - I wouldn't know) that is most important.

To some degree, it is in plain sight. But by rushing to examine the sales process and copy, many people rush past the real meat and never get back to it, IMO.

PS I see the other thread got nuked once a bit of truth was imparted. Have to add that one to the guerrilla swipe file :-)

Hi Ken,

Tomw said -

One way of achieving this may be to "show" the million dollar marketing funnel from a "Million Dollar Strategist" such as yourself. Show people how to copy your success. Show them how to adapt your core ideas and processes to benefit their own businesses. Show them how to make a success of themselves.

I was interested if you had a response to that.

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ExRat

15 years ago

Hi again,

As kind of a continuation of the last post - sorry if this seems like a hijack Ken, but I think it's relevant - particularly to my last post ;-)

..............

Hypothetical situation.

There's a thread on a forum about a popular launch (a free product leading to continuity offer.)

Person A says 'I'm going to cancel the monthly thing once I get my free stuff'

Person B 'That's wrong. If I was Marketer XYZ I would refund you.'

{Discussion ensues about rights and wrongs of freebie-seeking}

Stooge arrives and 'beats up' the free-loader

................

Can anyone else see that -

This is the real power of the 'system'

This is the mass control

This is the stuff that most people miss when they rush to study the salespage and the method of upselling and think that they're being smart by studying 'what they do' not 'what they say they do.'

'What they do' (that makes the difference) is right there between the dots.

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Roger Davis

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Frank Donovan

15 years ago

Originally Posted by ExRat

Hypothetical situation.

There's a thread on a forum about a popular launch (a free product leading to continuity offer.)

Person A says 'I'm going to cancel the monthly thing once I get my free stuff'

Person B 'That's wrong. If I was Marketer XYZ I would refund you.'

{Discussion ensues about rights and wrongs of freebie-seeking}

Stooge arrives and 'beats up' the free-loader

Hehe. You could almost set your watch...

Frank

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sparrow

15 years ago

Ken you definitely bring to light if someone wants to find out how these guys market its all in the open.

But these guys didn't get there overnight, if you have been around for any amount of time you can see the progression they have taken, and many cases they have stumbled upon what is working and not.

In this profession, you don't get anywhere without testing all the time unless you get lucky

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Christopher R Everson

15 years ago

My business has been built on copying what I know works, and avoiding what I've seen fail.

I can tell you right now that 99.99% of people who copy these launches, or even people who do a BETTER job with the funnel, the pre launch hype, the pre-markting, won't even scratch what these average guru launches produce.

I've recently gotten into brokering launches and re-launches, and I've seen stuff from amateurs that puts most of these high ticket launches to shame.

Arguably the biggest reasons these launches do so well is because of the guru's celebrity status. I could piece together the same type of product, use an almost identical sales letter, sales funnel, everything, and it won't do nearly as well, because I'm NOT Frank Kern, I'm not Filsaime, I'm NOT John Reese, etc.

In fact, I have. Twice. But you never heard of it. I made over $40,000 my first time from a list of 1900 non-buyers. Roughly $19,000 the second time to a list of about 2200 average leads, in a seperate niche.

I've also made your average run of the mill, $47 product, and gotten everyone under the sun to promote it. You have to have a very good relationship with people who produce results, or you need to have a NEW offer.

Anyone can copy these launches down to the wire, but almost ALL of the copy cats are unheard of, because they are just copying.

It's almost similar to indy films. Some indy films are absolutely brilliant. Everything, great cast, great plot, fresh ideas, yet they are rarely a financial success. They lack the glamor, the polish, the celebrity status and the budget the big films have. They lack those connections.

Most people will go to films regardless of the reviews, or the plot, or anything, simply because Johnny Depp is in it. You see it everytime an absolutely terrible movie is a monster success.

It's no different with these types of launches. Without the actors, the movie gets brushed aside. Without those affiliates, the launch is useless.

I've seen people on this forum drop $5,000 on something, no review, no promises, just because Eben Pagen said it was good.

You'd almost be better off spending your time building your reputation, than you would your product or skills if this is what you are interested in.

The core fundamentals of these launches is simple, and I agree with you there.

However, it's not something as easily accomplished. You need to build relationships with other marketers. Go out to seminars, shake some hands, meet people and do something with it.

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Christopher R Everson

15 years ago

That being said, I do agree that analyzing these launches is a fantastic lesson.

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TheRichJerksNet

15 years ago

Hi Ken,
While I am not sure about product launches, because to be honest I am not on very many email list at all... Matter fact I am only on 2 or 3 and none of them are top gurus. I find my email address much better served when used for support to my members & clients.

What I am sure about that some of the post on this forum in the last month alone are pure gold if some would just look at them with an open mind and think outside the box.

Perfect Example:

http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...tml#post338626

This thread was started by Ron which in my eyes it is called "Smart Marketing" the post shows pure genius...

You may wonder why I say this and it's really simple. Ron took a very popular thread and constructed a new thread by doing reverse marketing to get people involved and see what they should not do. So instead of the standard do this and do that .. Ron took it above and beyond and said this is what you should not be doing.

If you pay attention you will understand what reverse marketing is

The original thread title
Here's "A Stupidly Simple Cash Cow" and it's FREE :-)

Ron's thread title
Here's "A Stupidly Complex Cash Drain" and it's EXPENSIVE :-(

Can you see how the titles are reversed .. The thread is the same way while the original gives you a plan on what to do, Ron decided to tell you what you should not be doing...

Which one of these threads has a better effect really depends upon how open minded you are and how much you can really read between the lines. By telling someone what they should not be doing in my opinion will have a greater effect because you are spelling out what mistakes should not be made to begin with.

Ron's thread is only one example there are other threads.. So again while I am not sure about the product launches I am certainly sure about the post that are made.. Some are just pure gold..

James

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ExRat

15 years ago

Hi Chris,

You'd almost be better off spending your time building your reputation, than you would your product or skills if this is what you are interested in.

There's no 'almost' about it.

But there are some important notes - he has a 'wealth/proof' reputation coupled with connections that are difficult for the average person to emulate/simulate.

As was mentioned above, if someone wants to study something, study how the reputation has been built - IE - a unique persona, unique twists EG the videos with buzzworthy content, quality buzz creation and management EG - teamwork, outsourcing of stooges etc

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tomw

15 years ago

Originally Posted by ExRat

As was mentioned above, if someone wants to study something, study how the reputation has been built - IE - a unique persona, unique twists EG the videos with buzzworthy content, quality buzz creation and management EG - teamwork, outsourcing of stooges etc

Precisely! Study the bigger picture. The STRATEGY!

Why so many people focus on studying tactical and not strategic marketing is beyond me.

Want to know why so many with heads stuffed full of so many tactics fail?

There's the answer.

What it boils down to are the effects of cumulative measures resulting in exponential growth and revenue versus making a quick buck from a tactic here and there.

Crazy!

Thomas

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