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List-Building Question...

by Brekat23
38 replies
Ok I searched for this on the forums and although I'm sure it has to of been asked before, I couldn't find any threads on it in particular; just alot of related questions.

I was wondering - should I create a mailing list for each individual micro-niche site that I create, or one simple MAIN list for all of them?

I'm thinking they should all be kept seperate; although much more difficult to keep organized; would it not be better conversion-wise over time?

Thanks!
#listbuilding #question
  • Profile picture of the author BenoitT
    Of course, you have to split your list. Keep them small and very targeted because you want to offer them something specific for them.

    Originally Posted by Brekat23 View Post

    Ok I searched for this on the forums and although I'm sure it has to of been asked before, I couldn't find any threads on it in particular; just alot of related questions.

    I was wondering - should I create a mailing list for each individual micro-niche site that I create, or one simple MAIN list for all of them?

    I'm thinking they should all be kept seperate; although much more difficult to keep organized; would it not be better conversion-wise over time?

    Thanks!
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    Benoit Tremblay

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  • Profile picture of the author Kecia
    I agree you should keep your lists separated by the micro-niches that you are building them in. If you tried to put them together, you run the risk of losing subscribers because you would likely be promoting some offers that were not relevant to them.
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    KeciaHambrick.com - Blogger. Content Creator. Social Media Enthusiast.
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  • Profile picture of the author ajspencersolutions
    Hi Brekat23,

    I would have to agree with the others in this post. You need to create a list for each niche you are marketing to, so you can offer specific products and information related to that niche. Offering something unrelated to that niche would be a waste of time and probably make your subscribers question your credibility. You should be using Aweber or Getresponse to build and manage your list. These autoresponder sites have the tools to make managing your lists easy.

    To your success,

    Anthony Spencer

    Happiness is the key to success. Success is not the key to happiness.
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    • Profile picture of the author marcuslim
      You need to add value to your list. The only way to do this is if you understand exactly what people in your niche want. So you have to have a list for each micro niche in order to give each list what it wants.
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      Silver Bullet Publishing

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  • Profile picture of the author impact-productions
    I definitely agree with the advice to split your lists.

    One good thing, is that you can still mail them as one giant list (e.g. if you're using AWeber, you write a message to one list, and use the 'Include Other Lists' option).

    That can be very useful if you're writing something which be of interest to subscribers of multiple lists, without you having to do a lot of copying and pasting. It also means that the subscribers who are on multiple lists will only get that particular message once.

    Thom
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  • Profile picture of the author Jason Fulton
    I have created different lists for all of my buy buttons.... which are of the same product!

    Knowing where a buyer came from is very important and allows you to market differently to each one.

    Split your lists my friend

    Jason
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  • Profile picture of the author Coby
    I have over 20 lists for just the IM niche alone...

    Segment every list as much as you can so you can send the most targeted information and thus get the best results for everyone...

    This will help:
    http://www.warriorforum.com/make-mon...rt-report.html


    Good Luck
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  • Profile picture of the author royljestr
    I agree. There really isn't an advantage to keeping one large list, and if you ever want to send a blast to everyone you just select all of the list and send it...it's a piece of cake.

    So, I would definitely keep your lists separate!
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  • Profile picture of the author Zeus66
    For niche marketing where you have a wide diversity of site topics, yes. But if you have a broad level of knowledge/experience in a market with sites or products broken down into niches within that broad market, then sometimes it's more about personal branding. In that case, I prefer to keep it simple... one list. Others will disagree, but it proved to be too much work for me personally trying to cater to individual segments within the same market. What I mean is, let's say you have experience in several areas of Internet Marketing. You could run multiple lists based on niche marketing, list marketing, product creation, SEO, etc. If you were better organized than I am, that might even be better and more effective. I found that the organizational hassles started making me hate the work. So I basically collapsed it all into one all-purpose IM list.

    You have to know and play to your own strengths. Pick your battles. For some people segmenting lists works great. But if you get into it and hate it or find it too bothersome, nothing wrong with building one big list per market or niche. Whatever makes it more likely you'll mail regularly and actually market to the people on your list.

    John
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    • Profile picture of the author Coby
      Originally Posted by Zeus66 View Post

      For niche marketing where you have a wide diversity of site topics, yes. But if you have a broad level of knowledge/experience in a market with sites or products broken down into niches within that broad market, then sometimes it's more about personal branding. In that case, I prefer to keep it simple... one list. Others will disagree, but it proved to be too much work for me personally trying to cater to individual segments within the same market. What I mean is, let's say you have experience in several areas of Internet Marketing. You could run multiple lists based on niche marketing, list marketing, product creation, SEO, etc. If you were better organized than I am, that might even be better and more effective. I found that the organizational hassles started making me hate the work. So I basically collapsed it all into one all-purpose IM list.

      You have to know and play to your own strengths. Pick your battles. For some people segmenting lists works great. But if you get into it and hate it or find it too bothersome, nothing wrong with building one big list per market or niche. Whatever makes it more likely you'll mail regularly and actually market to the people on your list.

      John
      John, good point! I actually combined the two methods...

      When someone opt-ins they are added to a general IM list as well as the one they opt-in too. Same way with buyers. That way if I want to send a specific type promo/email I can.

      It is more work though at first to get it all set up correctly.
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      • Profile picture of the author Shaun OReilly
        Having one big list and treating them all the same is a
        common list building mistake.

        Having one big list without any segmentation at all is a
        sub-optimal way to run a list.

        Sure, it takes a bit of extra work to segment your lists
        and/or create multiple lists but the increase in response
        rate and decrease in unsubscribes is worth it.

        I prefer to put in the extra effort to finely segment my
        lists by the topic of interest and subscriber activity so
        that I send people messages they are most interested
        in.

        It's possible to have one big list and then segment it
        using custom fields on the webform rather than creating
        a separate list for each niche-related sub-topic.

        By segmenting your lists effectively, you'll be able to have
        a greater message-to-market match for your e-mails and
        your subscribers will see your messages as being more
        relevant to their specific interests.

        It also allows you to optimize your list subscriber value and
        this makes it easier to attract more and better affiliates
        too.

        Dedicated to mutual success,

        Shaun
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        • Profile picture of the author Zeus66
          Originally Posted by Shaun OReilly View Post

          Having one big list and treating them all the same is a
          common list building mistake.

          Having one big list without any segmentation at all is a
          sub-optimal way to run a list.
          Nope. Not always. Blanket statements like this are rarely if ever the case for every single person. I actually get slightly more conversions now that I have all of my IM list folks on the one list vs. when I had it segmented. The reason is simply that I email them all more often. Saying "one big list without any segmentation at all is a sub-optimal way to run a list" only applies if the list owner is equally likely to send regular emails to each segment. If you're busy and do many other things besides email marketing, it's likely you will not mail to each segment as often as you had planned. That was true in my case and several others I've spoken to about this very issue.

          I'm not in any way bashing segmentation. If you are the kind of person who will work that the way it should be worked, it's probably the wiser play. But for many of us, it creates extra hoops to jump through that regardless of best intentions will not be jumped through often enough.

          Am I leaving money on the table by eschewing segmentation? Well, actually I'm not when I look back at my bottom line when I tried it vs. now when life is much easier having my complete IM list in one big list. See, it's not all about what is the smarter play on paper. I would argue it's more important to know what you're more likely to do and what you're more likely to shirk. As I said in my earlier post: KNOW and PLAY TO your strengths. One size does not fit all when it comes to marketing behaviors and human variability.
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          • Profile picture of the author Shaun OReilly
            Originally Posted by Zeus66 View Post

            Nope. Not always. Blanket statements like this are rarely if ever the case for every single person. I actually get slightly more conversions now that I have all of my IM list folks on the one list vs. when I had it segmented. The reason is simply that I email them all more often. Saying "one big list without any segmentation at all is a sub-optimal way to run a list" only applies if the list owner is equally likely to send regular emails to each segment. If you're busy and do many other things besides email marketing, it's likely you will not mail to each segment as often as you had planned. That was true in my case and several others I've spoken to about this very issue.
            Segmenting your list and increasing the frequency
            with which you contact your list are two separate
            factors that will affect your conversion rates.

            People will often see more conversions if they contact
            their list more regularly.

            With proper list segmentation you are still able to send
            e-mails to your entire list as frequently as you want to
            and/or more finely tune your list segments to match the
            message.

            Segmentation is about giving you more choice on who
            you will and will not contact for a particular campaign.

            Originally Posted by Zeus66 View Post

            I'm not in any way bashing segmentation. If you are the kind of person who will work that the way it should be worked, it's probably the wiser play. But for many of us, it creates extra hoops to jump through that regardless of best intentions will not be jumped through often enough.

            Am I leaving money on the table by eschewing segmentation? Well, actually I'm not when I look back at my bottom line when I tried it vs. now when life is much easier having my complete IM list in one big list. See, it's not all about what is the smarter play on paper. I would argue it's more important to know what you're more likely to do and what you're more likely to shirk. As I said in my earlier post: KNOW and PLAY TO your strengths. One size does not fit all when it comes to marketing behaviors and human variability.
            You raise an important point on the practicality of using
            list segmentation and suiting it to your own strengths and
            personal style.

            What you actually WILL do as a list owner is far more
            important than what you COULD do.

            I manage e-mail campaigns for myself and my own clients
            and I'm accountable for the results I achieve. Fine list
            segmentation is an essential tool *for me* to gain a
            competitive advantage.

            There are easy ways to segment and more difficult
            ways to segment that can quickly tie you up in knots.

            Also it's possible to have one big list and use custom
            fields on the webform to allow fine list segmentation
            thereafter without creating multiple lists and having
            the extra list management headaches that come with
            it.

            Dedicated to mutual success,

            Shaun
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            • Profile picture of the author iSoftware
              You guys say "conversion rate" - but what do you mean?

              -confirmation conversation?
              -open rate conversions?
              -click through rate conversions?
              -goal (i.e sales conversions)?


              I agree that in general segmenting may make sense but I'll also say this.

              Mailing more often will ultimately get you the best results! And if someone starting out thinks they have to do segmenting in order to get ROI so procrastinates....THOSE EVERYONE IN *one list* AND JUST MAIL ALREADY!

              Do to the size of our list portfolio, we actually have a dedicated optimization specialist at aweber (only goes to the top 1-5% of account holders) so I am speaking from some experience here!

              Good luck.....
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            • Profile picture of the author entry
              Originally Posted by Shaun OReilly View Post

              People will often see more conversions if they contact their list more regularly.
              How frequently in the week would you say is a good amount, which isn't overdoing it? and which isn't too spaced out?

              (eg, 1 email a week, 2 emails a week)

              Cheers for the great warrior info you provide, in your posts.
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              I Have to say a Massive...THANK YOU to every Warrior who has helped me, and thanks to every warrior who helps me in the future...
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              • Profile picture of the author laurie390
                I agree with the others - you should segment your list. That way you can really talk directly to that group of people, give them specific information they need and offer them products they could use.
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                Huge PLR Closeout Sale at Quality Internet Marketing PLR

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  • Profile picture of the author Coby
    John,

    How do you know you don't make more money now because you have a bigger list and more products/promotions and not just because of not segmenting?

    I know I was on your list for a long time and I can tell the difference in how the information was delivered and I eventually unsubed.

    It seems like it became about a promo every email I got from you (they were all great products for sure) but it lost the "connection"...

    Are you definitely sure the money is not from sending more promos but by not segmenting?

    Just an observation
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  • Profile picture of the author Zeus66
    Yes, and others like you unsubbed, which was a-ok by me. My list is actually a bit smaller now vs. a month ago, but I make considerably more money from it. What happened was the people who really didn't want to be marketed to dropped off. And I wish them (and you) well of it! Too many list owners worry about size. I want people who want me to send them the occasional freebie but also value my recommendations when there's something good I think they should buy (mine or someone else's). Someone like you, Coby, probably don't need that kind of thing from me. You're advanced enough not to need me sifting through offers for you.

    Of course, by unsubbing you also missed out on the cool info product I wrote 10 days ago and gave to my list for free. In fact, no one else will ever see that product. I made it specially for my list members. I'll never sell it.

    To your question specifically, the answer is that when I did segment a lot my own laziness meant I didn't mail very often to every segment. Some got a lot, others got hardly any. The fault was my own, not anything to do with segmenting, per se. I was trying to force myself as a square peg into that round hole (segmentation). Didn't work for me. One big list does work for me. My only point is that not everyone fits into the same mold.
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    • Profile picture of the author Coby
      Originally Posted by Zeus66 View Post

      Yes, and others like you unsubbed, which was a-ok by me. My list is actually a bit smaller now vs. a month ago, but I make considerably more money from it. What happened was the people who really didn't want to be marketed to dropped off. And I wish them (and you) well of it! Too many list owners worry about size. I want people who want me to send them the occasional freebie but also value my recommendations when there's something good I think they should buy (mine or someone else's). Someone like you, Coby, probably don't need that kind of thing from me. You're advanced enough not to need me sifting through offers for you.

      Of course, by unsubbing you also missed out on the cool info product I wrote 10 days ago and gave to my list for free. In fact, no one else will ever see that product. I made it specially for my list members. I'll never sell it.

      To your question specifically, the answer is that when I did segment a lot my own laziness meant I didn't mail very often to every segment. Some got a lot, others got hardly any. The fault was my own, not anything to do with segmenting, per se. I was trying to force myself as a square peg into that round hole (segmentation). Didn't work for me. One big list does work for me. My only point is that not everyone fits into the same mold.

      Hey John,

      No, I loved your list dude and I bought a lot of the products you mentioned. I just had to unsub becuase I was buying too many things that weren't closely related and getting unfocused.

      It was nothing personal, I know your a great marketer and have great products. And I actually got that product as it wasn't too long ago that I had to unsub. I got the one asking people to unsub too.

      I didn't want to unsub, I just had to stay focused. I'll jump back on it at later time.

      Take care John

      P.S. I agree segmenting isn't for everyone
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      • Profile picture of the author entry
        Originally Posted by Coby View Post

        Hey John,

        No, I loved your list dude and I bought a lot of the products you mentioned. I just had to unsub becuase I was buying too many things that weren't closely related and getting unfocused.

        It was nothing personal, I know your a great marketer and have great products. And I actually got that product as it wasn't too long ago that I had to unsub. I got the one asking people to unsub too.

        I didn't want to unsub, I just had to stay focused. I'll jump back on it at later time.

        Take care John

        P.S. I agree segmenting isn't for everyone
        What is this list? which squeeze/landing page is it on?

        I would like to join it, and does John write his own email sequence?
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        • Profile picture of the author drmani
          I've run as many as SEVENTY THREE sub-lists - in
          the IM niche alone! (Now, it's down to a more
          'reasonable' 12 or so )

          And here are some experiences from doing this over
          years (since around 1996, I believe):

          PROS of running segmented lists:

          * messages are more targeted to subscribers
          * response rate is (usually) higher
          * no (or fewer) irrelevant messages to audience

          CONS of running segemnted lists:

          * sizes are usually tiny, making statistical
          analysis of response less meaningful

          * subscribers often join multiple lists, esp
          if you're building many related micro-sites in
          a few broad niches - leading to email overwhelm
          (that's my problem now, with autoresponder
          sequences from MULTIPLE sub-lists dropping
          into the SAME subscriber's email inbox - and
          s/he unsubscribes saying I'm emailing too much!)

          * inconvenience (mild) of deciding which list a
          particular broadcast emailing should go to (not
          a worry if you're only ever going to send out
          pre-scheduled sequences)

          But in contrast, having a single large list,
          especially if you're niche marketing, doesn't
          have too many 'pros' as I can see, except for
          catering to our innate laziness in not wanting
          to set up too many sub-lists (Yes, I groan
          each time I've got to set one up, I know!)

          One recent innovation by Aweber.com is to
          ensure that duplicate emails don't go out to
          the same email address, even if it is opted in
          to multiple lists (that used to cause me
          nightmares in the past, as it placed a limit
          on how many sub-lists could be sent the same
          email broadcast)

          All success
          Dr.Mani
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          • Profile picture of the author entry
            Originally Posted by drmani View Post

            I've run as many as SEVENTY THREE sub-lists - in
            the IM niche alone! (Now, it's down to a more
            'reasonable' 12 or so )

            And here are some experiences from doing this over
            years (since around 1996, I believe):

            PROS of running segmented lists:

            * messages are more targeted to subscribers
            * response rate is (usually) higher
            * no (or fewer) irrelevant messages to audience

            CONS of running segemnted lists:

            * sizes are usually tiny, making statistical
            analysis of response less meaningful

            * subscribers often join multiple lists, esp
            if you're building many related micro-sites in
            a few broad niches - leading to email overwhelm
            (that's my problem now, with autoresponder
            sequences from MULTIPLE sub-lists dropping
            into the SAME subscriber's email inbox - and
            s/he unsubscribes saying I'm emailing too much!)

            * inconvenience (mild) of deciding which list a
            particular broadcast emailing should go to (not
            a worry if you're only ever going to send out
            pre-scheduled sequences)

            But in contrast, having a single large list,
            especially if you're niche marketing, doesn't
            have too many 'pros' as I can see, except for
            catering to our innate laziness in not wanting
            to set up too many sub-lists (Yes, I groan
            each time I've got to set one up, I know!)

            One recent innovation by Aweber.com is to
            ensure that duplicate emails don't go out to
            the same email address, even if it is opted in
            to multiple lists (that used to cause me
            nightmares in the past, as it placed a limit
            on how many sub-lists could be sent the same
            email broadcast)

            All success
            Dr.Mani

            Good one, Dr Mani

            73 Lists ? Can you list some examples of the ones you had?

            and how about when you had somthing like 6 items in your funnel for say 'content writing' courses?

            when turning 73 -> 12, did you merge many lists together ?
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            • Profile picture of the author drmani
              Originally Posted by entry View Post

              73 Lists ? Can you list some examples of the ones you had?
              Oh, some were product based. Like I'd have one sub-list for folks
              who bought my 'Blog Profits' product, another for those who bought
              'Squidoo Marketing', and so on.

              Others were 'genre' or 'theme' based - sub-lists for those who are
              interested in article marketing, or blogging, or ebook/infoproduct
              creation.

              A few were based around affiliate promotions.

              All appealed to infopreneurs, so my 'general' broadcasts would go
              to all sub-lists - except when the same person joins multiple sub-
              lists (and they often do), it led to "too many emails" in a day/week!

              and how about when you had somthing like 6 items in your funnel for say 'content writing' courses?
              Each front-end product for a funnel would lead to a set of back-end
              products promoted through the auto-responder, so they'd be set up
              with a sequence of emails depending on what the funnel led to.

              For 6 items on 'content writing', the back-end is likely to be similar,
              so I'd simply code the same opt-in form with a tag to identify which
              'source' the leads came from - and then add them to the same sub-
              list (at least that's how I'd do it today).

              If the 'theme' of each front-end funnel product was different, I'd
              consider a separate sub-list - if the back-end justified a unique
              sequence of follow up emails to that sub-list.

              when turning 73 -> 12, did you merge many lists together ?
              I do many (crazy?) things to churn my list, keep it responsive,
              and create value. I rarely 'merge' my lists, but give subscribers
              options to help them self-select to join the most appropriate list,
              or cancel their subscription, or (rarely) delete less responsive
              lists.

              For example, I recently deleted over 6,000 double opt-in subscribers
              across a few lists!

              But this is NOT an approach I'd recommend for everyone. It works
              for me - but you'll have to take your chances

              All success
              Dr.Mani
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              • Profile picture of the author entry
                Originally Posted by drmani View Post

                Oh, some were product based. Like I'd have one sub-list for folks
                who bought my 'Blog Profits' product, another for those who bought
                'Squidoo Marketing', and so on.

                Others were 'genre' or 'theme' based - sub-lists for those who are
                interested in article marketing, or blogging, or ebook/infoproduct
                creation.

                A few were based around affiliate promotions.

                All appealed to infopreneurs, so my 'general' broadcasts would go
                to all sub-lists - except when the same person joins multiple sub-
                lists (and they often do), it led to "too many emails" in a day/week!



                Each front-end product for a funnel would lead to a set of back-end
                products promoted through the auto-responder, so they'd be set up
                with a sequence of emails depending on what the funnel led to.

                For 6 items on 'content writing', the back-end is likely to be similar,
                so I'd simply code the same opt-in form with a tag to identify which
                'source' the leads came from - and then add them to the same sub-
                list (at least that's how I'd do it today).

                If the 'theme' of each front-end funnel product was different, I'd
                consider a separate sub-list - if the back-end justified a unique
                sequence of follow up emails to that sub-list.



                I do many (crazy?) things to churn my list, keep it responsive,
                and create value. I rarely 'merge' my lists, but give subscribers
                options to help them self-select to join the most appropriate list,
                or cancel their subscription, or (rarely) delete less responsive
                lists.

                For example, I recently deleted over 6,000 double opt-in subscribers
                across a few lists!

                But this is NOT an approach I'd recommend for everyone. It works
                for me - but you'll have to take your chances

                All success
                Dr.Mani
                Deleted 6000 subscribers? were they unresponsive ?
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                • Profile picture of the author JJones
                  What would you guys say was the best Listbuilding/Email marketing course for someone just starting out?

                  I know the basics, but would like to study how it's done properly by someone who actually does it, and makes money (most Important)
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  • Profile picture of the author spope91
    You DEFINITELY want to keep them all seperete. This way you can be alot more targeted, and provide your subscribers with exactly what they want.

    When the lists are bigger, you could attempt to merge them by inviting them all to a different list, but you;d be better to keep things targeted and individual.

    Hope this helps.
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  • Profile picture of the author WilliamLark
    I would do several one for each niche to keep them as targeted niche list make it easier when mailing niche related products.
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  • Profile picture of the author stingrays06
    Definitely separate them by niche. You'll get better conversions that way. I'm not sure how many different niches you're in, but you don't want to try and sell dog-training products to your money making niche do you?
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  • Profile picture of the author cryst
    If u have different niche try to make separate list because for Example ... If a person wants to know about car if u send him a info about bicycle he would be thinking in wrong way in that way u may u loose your precious subscriber
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  • Profile picture of the author lvnworks
    I suggest you use Aweber.

    You can build different list there with varying webforms.

    It's just a matter of copying and pasting the code of the form after you have set-up your listname.

    Happy Marketing!
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    2011 Email Lists - 5m and growing....

    Contact me: lvnworks (at) gmail (dot) com

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  • Profile picture of the author Cam Connor
    Originally Posted by Brekat23 View Post

    Ok I searched for this on the forums and although I'm sure it has to of been asked before, I couldn't find any threads on it in particular; just alot of related questions.

    I was wondering - should I create a mailing list for each individual micro-niche site that I create, or one simple MAIN list for all of them?

    I'm thinking they should all be kept seperate; although much more difficult to keep organized; would it not be better conversion-wise over time?

    Thanks!

    I would do a seperate offer and auto-responder series for each and every one of your micro-niche's unless a couple of them are REALLY similar. lol

    It will be a lot of work, but it will be worth it on the end.
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  • Profile picture of the author hoidee
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    • Profile picture of the author laurie390
      Originally Posted by hoidee View Post

      i have email list of

      golfers

      doctors/dentist

      casino/gamblers/betting/poker

      forex/traders/investors/business persons

      sports/fans

      marketing/managers

      etc and more get me on skype - mi_ck000l
      Good job on segmenting!
      Signature

      Laurie Neumann
      Huge PLR Closeout Sale at Quality Internet Marketing PLR

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      • Profile picture of the author FranMurray
        You need to think long term...

        Building several lists is the way to go!

        Large markets have several sub markets / niches. It doesn't matter if your an affiliate or product creator (although, if your a product creator you can make a product or two for each niche ;-) segmenting your list is the way to go.

        There was a comment in the this thread that is worth so much...

        "Knowing where a buyer came from is very important and allows you to market differently to each one."

        If you know where your getting your leads, it is much easier to sell to them!

        Francis
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  • Profile picture of the author shmeeko69
    Originally Posted by Brekat23 View Post

    Ok I searched for this on the forums and although I'm sure it has to of been asked before, I couldn't find any threads on it in particular; just alot of related questions.

    I was wondering - should I create a mailing list for each individual micro-niche site that I create, or one simple MAIN list for all of them?

    I'm thinking they should all be kept seperate; although much more difficult to keep organized; would it not be better conversion-wise over time?

    Thanks!
    It's always better to keep your lists seperate, as you'll have better control of your product promotions and for example you don't want to promote a Weight Loss product to your Dog Walking lsit and vice versa.

    Mark
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    The Rock n Roll of Marketing Reviews
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  • Profile picture of the author dagaul101
    A mailing list for each individual micro-niche site is best, that way the lists you are building are targetted lists
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