Ethical Marketers - You're Joking, Right?

Okay, now that's funny. True, but still funny.


P.S. You'll love the book. That's a promise. PM me after you read it and tell me what you though.

I've actually done this. Done this - I launched a WSO that taught them exactly how to build up a sustainable business.

Can you guess the response? I don't even need to comment on it.

I decided that, you know, I was going to give this a try. Have faith in people. Say: "here is the offer, it will make you big bucks actually."

I was 100% honest in my copy (actually, I always am honest, but I do use plenty of hype normally), explained what was needed.

I had a handful of buyers and that's it.

I poured my heart and soul into that product, which gave away some of the most powerful business building secrets.

No one wanted it.

So, the very next week I launched a "big money, easy work" wso. The response was so different it wasn't even funny.

People want the dream. They don't want the work.

You know, I hear all the bitching and whining about scams. But as long as people, the market place, demands easy money/no work, people will supply that demand.

Rob

Chris, As BigMike said, it's not. Not really. The challenge, aside from the scope issue, is that people use that word without having any real meaning for it. They hear about the evil 'gurus,' and they use the word to represent anyone who sells using tactics or techniques they don't personally find meet their preferences.

For instance, I got an email from a subscriber recently who informed me, in no uncertain terms, that any sales letter that included a red headline or yellow highlighting was pitching a lie.

Yes. Really.

Why? Because some blogger who is trying to position him- or herself as a 'guru' in the traditional sense is claiming those things to be signs of evil. Rather than explaining to their readers how to recognize a probably fraudulent offer, or how to determine if the risk is worth the potential reward, they're offering easy, no-thought formulas. Exactly the sort of tactic they're saying is bad when used to sell a product.

Then there are the folks who are inexperienced and desperate, who will buy anything that promises hope. It doesn't matter if the product delivers or not if they don't have the skills or understanding needed to make it work. They assume their failure is due to some fault in the product. Sometimes it is, but at least as often it's a lack of understanding on their part.

And there are the cynics who try to develop credibility by shouting from the rooftops about how everyone else is crooked. They've always been part of the market, and always will be. Not everyone who talks about bad practices fits that mold, of course, but you want to look for something more than just opinions in their comments. Specifics that hold up to scrutiny are what's needed.

There are a lot of crooks out there. No-one is going to dispute that. They're a small part of the market, but they exist and they do a lot of damage. Probably not as much, though, as people telling everyone the sky is falling, rather than how to spot the problem offers.

Here's some basic advice on that topic:

1: Ignore earnings claims. They may be true and they may not, but they have little to do with how much you will or won't make with any given product.

2: Don't buy stuff you don't seriously intend to use.

3: Don't spend money you can't afford to lose.

4: Think about the skills you'll need in order to use a product. If you don't have the needed skills, either wait on the order or be clear with yourself that you're going to need to learn while you use it.

5: Don't buy from blind ads. If the only thing they tell you about a product is what it isn't, skip it. You have no way of making an intelligent decision on whether or not you can use the thing properly.

6: Look for reviews that get into specifics about the product, from people who've bought and used it. Empty comments, whether positive or negative, have no meaning. You don't know if they're real or not, and they're not helpful in either case.

7: If there's no refund offered, see #3.

8: Have a plan. If the product doesn't fit your plan, skip it.

That last will be the hardest for some people. It's probably the best protection you've got, though. If you have a clear idea of what you're doing, it's a lot easier to pick the offers that will help you get it done. And having a plan suggests that you know what skills are needed, and in what ways, to make those things happen.

Note that none of this requires that you know in advance which offers are good or not. It just means you'll be a lot more aware of what's happening when you consider an offer, which will cut down your chances of getting ripped off (or just making a poor choice) by rather a lot.


Paul

Gaz, I remember the WF of old. It had far fewer members, and disagreements were much more... "animated." That was expected, under the theory that it's better to have one's ideas tested and proven than to wander around trying to make something work based on a flawed notion.

Things have changed here a bit, but not quite the way you're describing. We get a lot more people coming in now in a week than we did back then in several months. All those people have the same concerns, hopes, fears, confusions, preconceptions, desires and tendencies the folks back then did. They make the same mistakes, pose the same questions, and generally do mostly all the same things newer members did in 97 and 98.

We also have a lot more members who've been here for multiple years, and who've seen it all before. It's easy for those folks to forget that the new folks are still just that ... new folks. They will always make the same mistakes. It's part of being new, after all.

The more experienced members get annoyed when they see yet another dozen people coming in and demanding the forum be run their way, or spamming affiliate links, or just acting like they owned the place. This is especially true of those who post regularly and try to explain the use of forums to the recent immigrants.

If you let yourself forget that, it just gets bloody old after a while.

I agree with you that being new to the forum doesn't mean you're new to marketing. It doesn't tell us anything about a person's intelligence or their skills or anything else like that. It certainly doesn't tell us anything about them as a human being. But there is one thing that being new does tell us: That person hasn't yet done the things that get you credibility as a member of this group.

They haven't asked or answered a ton of questions, or helped clean up the spam, or walked another member through any sort of learning process. They've got an account, but they haven't earned anything beyond that as it relates to this forum.

I was here "back in the day." I remember how people got treated when they came in with guns blazing and said stuff like was said in the OP. And it wasn't anything like "nice and respectful." They got blasted with more heat than I've seen one person get here in quite a while.

Of course, we couldn't just plug in the cable modem and turn on the computer to get access. We had to configure the software and the modem ourselves, or pay a tech to do it. And we paid for membership, which meant waiting for the check to be delivered to Allen via postal mail. You had to want to be here, and have a little patience to make it happen.

Different group, different standards. I'm not saying I'd go back to what it was back then, but I remember it well. And it wasn't anything like you're suggesting it was. Not for people who started out with a challenge verging on insult.

Are the OP's points valid in some cases? Sure. Of course. Do they hold true to the extent he proposes? Not as far as I can see, and I have a pretty broad view of the place. Should he expect to be allowed to say this stuff without expecting a response from the group he's engaging?

Nope. Not in any forum I've ever seen.


Paul

Wow - I must be seeing something different to you.

Yes I must be, but sometimes you have to take the blinkers off to see


You must be missing all the cool stuff that goes on here and the amazing people helping others every single day.

Nope I dont miss a thing, but I am also immune to the bullys on here unlike some newbies that come here

Post count has nothing to do with how people here get treated. If you're seeing some form of clique - that's in your head.

No I disagree (I am allowed right ?) there is definately a disdane to new posters on here and those with few posts if they say the wrong thing or touch on taboo subjects.

It's at least as cool here as it was before - there's just a bit more noise aswell.

I disagree in a sense, YES there is some fantastic info available here but if you think its as friendly as it was 10 years ago you may be suffering from amnesia

I meet a lot of warriors offline and they always tell me how kind and helpful people here have been to them - we have a reputation for lack of BS and lots of really good information.

You see you are using the word WE as if your in some sort of exclusive seperate click, and that is my point exactly and it has proven my point.

Perhaps you're mistaking people spending the time to make their responses thoughtful and useful (and maybe even the use of good grammar) as "high and mighty".

There you go attacking again, kinda proving my point yet again, people cant have an opinion here without being belittled (is that good grammar if not my apologies Ajarn)

If that's how it makes you feel - I'm pretty sure that's your baggage doing the creating.

Its plain to see I travel light

The OP started his post with "I'm probably going to get flamed for this" and obviously knew he was saying something that some people would not agree with, so why is his expected response somehow ultimately offensive to you?

I agree with him in a sense way too much scamming going on and way too many people backing the scammers only problem its its a TABOO subject, people have to be quiet as it going to cost people lost income.

The other thing you may not have noticed is that there's more spam posting going on than there ever used to be and lots of people coming here (way more than ever before) in order to try and abuse the members and con them out of their money. So if the response is to be sceptical until someone shows that they're genuine that's probably understandable, but that's nothing like being nasty to newbies.

I agree with you on this point but there is a difference between being sceptical and being inviting without pre judging first.
.

If you're looking for negativity - you'll easily be able to find it. If you're looking for positivity - you'll find it in spades

I am a very positive person but I call it like I see it and I have said my piece and stand by it.

Gaz Cooper

Ok - I give in. You're determined to take any discussion on your points as a personal attack on you.

I guess I now see why you're saying the things you are. If you think I'm also attacking you then I guess that matches your reality.

What I've been doing (and ALL I've been doing) is responding to your criticisms and sharing that your experiences/statements are not true for everyone.

If telling you that my experience is different is going to be called an attack then I respectfully withdraw from communicating with you. The last thing I want is to give you another reason to think this forum is worse than it is.

I'll put you on my ignore list so that I can't accidentally respond to your posts and give you reason to feel attacked again.

Sorry to have proven your point or made you feel less than great. Good luck with your efforts.

Andy

Gaz, There is usually a reason for certain subjects to be "taboo." You will notice, though, that he didn't hit any of them. His post is still here, despite the presence of several moderators in the thread.

Look at the title of this thread. If that doesn't look like an accusation against the group (and marketers in general) to you, you're not seeing as clearly as you might believe.

The rest is a normal function of a group responding to a perceived insult. If you throw rocks at a crowd, you can expect some of them to throw them back, yes?


Paul

Hey Paul

Nope can't say I have but Im guessing there is a lesson in there somewhere. Cant say I disagree with you on many points, your posts are always accurate and make sense, but there is one big point I do disagree on, but thats taboo on WF and for good reason.

Gaz

Gaz, I didn't take offense either. I have, however, pointed out why I understand how others might have. I will say this much about it: The thread title was both deliberately rude and intended to provoke a negative response.

There's a word for such tactics.


Paul

Chris