When Does All The Spending Stop?

69 replies

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that I know it all!


What I am saying is that at some point you need to stop
buying the latest "You must have this new method" stuff
just because it's there!

You should know what kind of business you are running,
you should know exactly how that business operates. So,
before you go ahead and click that Buy Now button, ask
yourself.. "If I invest in this will it help me to make more
profit in my business?"; "Is my purchase influenced by
curiosity, urgency or scarcity?"; "If I didn't need this
yesterday, why might I need it today?"

You might just save yourself a fair chunk of cash and,
more importantly, you might stay focused on doing what's
best for your business.

John
#spending #stop
  • Profile picture of the author Bev Clement
    John, one problem a number of people have is they don't have a business or have a clear idea of the type of business they run. If it doesn't make money today, try something else tomorrow.
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  • Profile picture of the author SaSeoPete
    Hi John,

    I was just thinking about that the other day. I have a fairly good model that I follow which is brininging in some nice extra cash. I always used to buy every ebook I could get my hands on and now rather spend that money on articles etc.
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    • Profile picture of the author freedom25
      I agree with you. My main problem is moving from one thing to the next, spending money, but never making money. I need to stop spending and start working hard to make good things happen in my life.
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    • Profile picture of the author John Taylor
      Originally Posted by SaSeoPete View Post

      Hi John,

      I was just thinking about that the other day. I have a fairly good model that I follow which is brininging in some nice extra cash. I always used to buy every ebook I could get my hands on and now rather spend that money on articles etc.
      In the normal business world you would be expected
      to prove the need for an investment and be required
      to show the potential return on investment.

      Corporate purchasing departments don't make
      spontaneous purchases based on emotion. Why should
      it be different onlne?

      So yes, invest your money in tools and resources that
      will take your business forward.

      John
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      • Originally Posted by John Taylor View Post

        In the normal business world you would be expected
        to prove the need for an investment and be required
        to show the potential return on investment.

        Corporate purchasing departments don't make
        spontaneous purchases based on emotion. Why should
        it be different online?

        So yes, invest your money in tools and resources that
        will take your business forward.
        We can thank those of our colleagues who spend tons o' money advertising their wares and services that make it seem like you can be making tons o' money in no time flat with just a computer and a dream.

        Fortunately, most folks who end up here learn that there's an investment in time and effort required for success. All the goodies you could buy are either given away for free or offered in trade by other Warriors.

        Plan your work, work your plan. Fail to plan, plan to fail.
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        • Profile picture of the author ExRat
          Hi John,

          You're obviously new to this forum and I have to enlighten you that that kind of talk is not appreciated here

          We can thank those of our colleagues who spend tons o' money advertising their wares and services that make it seem like you can be making tons o' money in no time flat with just a computer and a dream.
          And you Vince

          ........

          Seriously, I hope people read what you are saying and digest it. You've got to get off the merry-go-round first of all in order to enjoy the roller-coaster.
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          Roger Davis

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          • Profile picture of the author Anna Johnson
            In the normal business world you would be expected
            to prove the need for an investment and be required
            to show the potential return on investment.

            Corporate purchasing departments don't make
            spontaneous purchases based on emotion. Why should
            it be different onlne?

            So yes, invest your money in tools and resources that
            will take your business forward.
            Hmmm, methinks that people who buy every product under the sun are not really looking at it from a business perspective (is this the best use of my dollars? Will it deliver the highest ROI?)... but are, rather, looking at it from a consumer perspective.
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      • Profile picture of the author absolutelee
        Originally Posted by John Taylor View Post

        In the normal business world you would be expected
        to prove the need for an investment and be required
        to show the potential return on investment.

        Corporate purchasing departments don't make
        spontaneous purchases based on emotion. Why should
        it be different onlne?

        So yes, invest your money in tools and resources that
        will take your business forward.

        John
        Right, but also in the normal business world you separate education from the actual use of the education. By that I mean, people go to B. School to get an MBA, then they get a job with Coke and use what they learned. In IM, we're having to do the learning and doing at the same time. Also, since this is all so new, there's no "curriculum" to follow. So, you just have to find it out as you go along.
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        • Profile picture of the author John Taylor
          Originally Posted by absolutelee View Post

          Right, but also in the normal business world you separate education from the actual use of the education. By that I mean, people go to B. School to get an MBA
          I've never seen anyone buy an MBA as an impulse purchase.

          I'm not suggesting that people don't invest in their education,
          my point is that decisions should be based on facts and data
          and not because the "education" is being launched today, is
          being "recommended" by 1,000 affiliates and because there will
          only ever be x available.

          Education, to be fully effective, must be delivered at the right
          time. That is when the student is ready, not when the teacher
          needs to make the sale.

          John
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          • Profile picture of the author Kay King
            Maybe we should just sell two step programmes?
            Immense possibilities - sell a two step program and upsell four products, two steps at a time!

            Of course, some would only do one step....

            The best advice to a new marketer may be "stop reading sales pages!".

            kay
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            • Profile picture of the author davesharp
              Originally Posted by Kay King View Post


              The best advice to a new marketer may be "stop reading sales pages!".

              kay
              I couldn't agree with this more, the sad thing is two years ago I actually believed these sales pages.

              Dave
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              • Profile picture of the author Robert Oliver
                My spending has stopped since I became focused
                on my current business model for building a long term
                online business. I figured out you cannot try to do some
                of everything and succeed.

                I have been guilty of buying everything that came down
                the pipeline. I now only buy things that will help me with
                my business model and that is not very often now. Bad
                news for those selling all this crap.

                Focus and realizing that building a long term strategy is
                much better than the hit & run strategies I was doing will
                save me lots of money.

                FOCUS,FOCUS, FOCUS

                Robert
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          • Profile picture of the author absolutelee
            Originally Posted by John Taylor View Post

            I've never seen anyone buy an MBA as an impulse purchase.

            I'm not suggesting that people don't invest in their education,
            my point is that decisions should be based on facts and data
            and not because the "education" is being launched today, is
            being "recommended" by 1,000 affiliates and because there will
            only ever be x available.

            Education, to be fully effective, must be delivered at the right
            time. That is when the student is ready, not when the teacher
            needs to make the sale.

            John
            I agree with that. I guess my point is partially this: There's much more education that one needs to succeed in IM than people think. Buying ebooks is just part of that education. You're right that the student needs to make their educational purchases based on the student's needs and not the "teacher's".
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  • Profile picture of the author Anna Johnson
    (Roger - just saw your title 'beach bum'. I thought you were a Brit? What beach are we talking about here?)
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    • Profile picture of the author Martin Luxton
      Originally Posted by Anna Johnson View Post

      (Roger - just saw your title 'beach bum'. I thought you were a Brit? What beach are we talking about here?)
      Anna,

      Brits can sunbathe in any temperature above 2 degrees centigrade providing the wind chill factor is not more than minus 40. The handkerchief on our heads keeps the heat in.

      Martin
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    • Profile picture of the author ExRat
      Hi Anna,

      Roger - just saw your title 'beach bum'. I thought you were a Brit? What beach are we talking about here?
      Any that will have me

      Ideally, Scarborough beach in Perth - which is my favourite. Haven't had the chance to nip down there recently, unfortunately - but I'll be back.

      So I'm making do with the ones on my doorstep (we do have beaches in England, you know ) - The English Riviera, otherwise known as Torbay. The Canary Islands are only four hours flight away which is the best plan this time of year - head straight towards the equator!

      About to go and play tennis here - it's currently hitting a max of about 1 deg C and you have to be careful not to slip on the frost on the court. Brrrrr!
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  • Profile picture of the author robocallaghan
    lol - Anna I misread it as 'bleach bum' - must clear the sleep from my eyes!

    Rob.
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  • Profile picture of the author Anna Johnson
    Well, I've always loved the British sense of humour... (Ah, what can I say, I'm of British stock myself...)
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  • Profile picture of the author Anna Johnson
    lol - Anna I misread it as 'bleach bum' - must clear the sleep from my eyes!

    Rob.
    When it comes to Brits and beaches... it may well be bleach bums...
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  • Profile picture of the author cashcow
    I think you guys have hit the nail on the head - most people aren't running their internet business like a business.

    If you were to open a pet store or a shoe store in the off-line world, you'd have a pretty good idea of what to do, right? Fill up the store with pet supplies, or shoes or whatever and get customers in to buy them.

    But a lot of people that start off in internet marketing get into the business to "make money on the internet". That's very broad and there are a lot of ways to "make money on the internet" so I think a lot of us have to go around buying up every new thing until we find "our way".

    But once one does find their way and has a solid business plan that they have faith in executing then they will start to make money and see their business grow.
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Taylor
    Originally Posted by John Taylor View Post


    What I am saying is that at some point you need to stop
    buying the latest "You must have this new method" stuff
    just because it's there!
    John, do you have a WSO on this I could buy?
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    • Profile picture of the author davesharp
      Hi,
      Yes I'll buy that as well John!

      No, no,... cancel that last order I've just remembered there is no magic button. Oh well back to work.

      Dave
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  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Wagoner
    Gimme da latest quick fix, I need it fast!

    The last twelve didn't make me rich, but
    this one' gotta work coz I'm on my last
    credit card!!
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  • Profile picture of the author Bai_Mike
    A very difficult part to know is whether what I do right now will serve out well for the future. That is one of the reasons why people jump from one program to another, whenever the current program that they are in gets tough to stick out in.

    Admittedly, lots of people get into this mistake, including me. I guess the answer to it is simply the best fit program that suits your tastes or any working style that you find is good for churning cash and whichever is good for your workstyle.

    Most probably takes some self-mastery or awareness to know these or simply which way just works for you.
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      6 years in this business and I'll betcha dollars to donuts that I've spent less
      money on "how to" books than any other marketer here.

      When I buy something...it is with a definite purpose in mind. I know exactly
      what I expect to get out of it and an approximate idea of how much extra
      income it's going to make me
      .

      Get off the merry-go-round Rog?

      These people need to get out off the freakin amusement park altogether.
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      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
        When I logged in the WF a few minutes ago, I noticed there were more new WSO's on the first page of "new posts" than main discussion topics. Wondered how many members would read all the WSO's before looking at anything else ;-)

        Not long ago I received an email from a marketer asking whether I thought he should buy a big program launching the next week. After a couple back and forths, he decided to follow my advice - which was "you don't need this now - you can't use this now - so don't buy now".

        A few days later - same person, another email asking about another new product. I gave a full explanation of the concept of spending time/money only on what you need NOW to do what you are doing NOW, how he could do better saving his money to buy software and tools as he needs them rather than more and more "info" and "fast money" products....only to get another email about yet another product he was thinking of buying.

        I gave up - said "sure, buy it". To this guy, being a "marketer" means owning all the marketing products. Until his credit cards max out - he will keep buying.

        whenever the current program that they are in gets tough to stick out in.
        And that is exactly what happens. People buy a 10 step program, do two steps, decide it's too hard or takes too long - so they buy another 10 step program....on and on and on.

        kay
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        • Profile picture of the author John Taylor
          Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

          People buy a 10 step program, do two steps, decide it's too hard or takes too long - so they buy another 10 step program....on and on and on.

          kay
          Maybe we should just sell two step programmes?

          John
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      • Profile picture of the author Debbie Songster
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        6 years in this business and I'll betcha dollars to donuts that I've spent less
        money on "how to" books than any other marketer here.

        When I buy something...it is with a definite purpose in mind. I know exactly
        what I expect to get out of it and an approximate idea of how much extra
        income it's going to make me
        .

        Get off the merry-go-round Rog?

        These people need to get out off the freakin amusement park altogether.
        Steven
        Thats an interesting comment from a guy who just started the thread "I'm an idiot somebody shoot me"

        6 years in this business and you just got that "ah ha moment"?

        Probably could have gotten it sooner if you had bought a few more "how to books"

        LOL -- Laugh with me Steven ...
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        • Profile picture of the author James Schramko
          Originally Posted by Debbie Songster View Post

          Steven
          Thats an interesting comment from a guy who just started the thread "I'm an idiot somebody shoot me"

          6 years in this business and you just got that "ah ha moment"?

          Probably could have gotten it sooner if you had bought a few more "how to books"

          LOL -- Laugh with me Steven ...
          Sad isn't it, (the wasted opportunity that is).
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        • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
          Originally Posted by Debbie Songster View Post

          Steven
          Thats an interesting comment from a guy who just started the thread "I'm an idiot somebody shoot me"

          6 years in this business and you just got that "ah ha moment"?

          Probably could have gotten it sooner if you had bought a few more "how to books"

          LOL -- Laugh with me Steven ...
          Well you know, you're probably right. As it is, it took me years to get to
          where I am now. But the past is the past and I can't cry over it. All I can
          do is move forward and keep trying to improve myself.

          There is no room in my life now for regrets and "what ifs"

          Forward...that's the only direction I know now.
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          • Profile picture of the author James Schramko
            Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

            Well you know, you're probably right. As it is, it took me years to get to
            where I am now. But the past is the past and I can't cry over it. All I can
            do is move forward and keep trying to improve myself.

            There is no room in my life now for regrets and "what ifs"

            Forward...that's the only direction I know now.

            Onwards and Upwards Steven! Good attitude.
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  • Profile picture of the author BIG Mike
    Banned
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    • Profile picture of the author John Taylor
      Originally Posted by BIG Mike View Post

      I'd love to see how some of these folks would explain that $2K impulse purchase to their boss
      Mike,

      That would make a great "fly on the wall" video for YouTube!

      What a lot of people don't realise is that being your own boss
      means you have to make boss type decisions, some of which
      may be unpalatable. Until you realise the money you're spending
      is yours!

      John
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  • Profile picture of the author Bev Clement
    You mean the one that many use.

    1) Must have product.

    2) Click on buy now button and pay.

    It's only 2 steps so I don't need to download it, unzip it, read it, use it, or anything else because that is called work, and I bought this must have product which will make a million while I sleep.
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  • Steve's got it right about the amusement park. Except all the rides are the same, but painted slightly different colors, and they have a credit card swipe next to your seat so you can buy upsells after you paid the 50$ to get on the thing in the first place.

    Luckily I realized what a sham most ebooks were after I bought one, got my money back and invested time in building a real business
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    • Profile picture of the author John Taylor
      Originally Posted by YellowDot Software View Post


      Luckily I realized what a sham most ebooks were after I bought one, got my money back and invested time in building a real business
      That's an interesting approach. You buy one ebook
      and then decide that "all ebooks are a sham" based
      on that one example?

      And you make that statement in a marketing forum
      where a high proportion of members publish ebooks.

      Generalisations are wonderful things...

      John
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      • Originally Posted by YellowDot Software View Post

        Luckily I realized what a sham most ebooks were after I bought one, got my money back and invested time in building a real business
        Originally Posted by John Taylor View Post

        That's an interesting approach. You buy one ebook
        and then decide that "all ebooks are a sham" based
        on that one example?

        No I included most on purpose, I realize there are valid things in a lot of ebooks, but I came into internet marketing with an already strong business background. I thought: I'll check one of these out and see what's in it, if I can use it to help build my business I will, and all I found was the formulaic information: make landing pages, use adwords.

        While there are some that give great ideas, relying on other people for ALL of your ideas can often times lead to bad things.
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  • Profile picture of the author Debbie Allen
    I think a lot of the problem goes back to the basics of focus. It is easy to lose sight of your focus when there is a constant flow of new products being promoted.

    Having a definite plan and a focus on what you want to achieve is important --- but you might need to learn some new things to help you reach your goals. So sometimes making a purchase is justified - as long as it is part of the plan for success.
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  • Profile picture of the author tranquility
    Yeah, as a newbie to this forum I can definitely say the trouble I'm having is focusing on one technique. Problem is, all of you veteran warriors write such good stuff it's hard to pass 'em up!!

    I do have 2 websites that I'm slowly working on, one of which is part of my network marketing biz. I know how most of you feel about NM so won't go into that! Just now venturing into social networking, article marketing and blogging. Then there's the Squidoo lenses I want to write, the Hubpages ... well, it's easy to lose focus. But in reality, all of the non-focused movements are all intended to funnel back into getting traffic to my 2 sites. So, I guess I'm kinda focused ...? :confused:

    Sometimes I think that if I didn't have my fulltime job that would give me the impetus to really DO something to succeed on the net. But knowing I've got my paychecks coming in takes the edge off, even though I'm totally burned out from my job and would love to leave.

    So it's quite the conundrum.

    (I need another cup of coffee!)

    Debbie
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  • Profile picture of the author Alex Sol
    I must agree with many statements here that most people do not treat their Internet Marketing business as an actual "BUSINESS"... and many beginners do not understand that they need to run a business, so they fail sooner or later. Many fail before starting, by simply purchasing every "Next Big Thing" and never taking the proper action.

    I started the same way. I have spent probably close to $1,000 on e-books before I stumbled upon a few forums (WF, WA, DP) and started realizing that I needed to take massive action. So, I started to take action and started earning money - soon enough I realized that taking action is not enough, I needed a plan and I had to stick to it. Once this was done, the income became much more steady and started to grow while requiring less effort from me. Things like testing, tracking, outsourcing could help a LOT - once again, if you have a good business plan and you follow it...

    I started writing down my 2009 business plan a month ago, and I already can see hundreds of mistakes I made in 2008 so I can say this also comes with the experience. If I did not make a plan and follow it for 2008 - I wouldn't be able to trace and correct those costly mistakes which I will make sure to avoid in the years to come.

    Happy Holidays,

    Success and Happiness,

    Alex
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  • Profile picture of the author tomw
    I agree with most of what you said John. And there are too many people that believe simply owning something makes them an expert. Focus and a calculated expectation of ROI is the key, of course.

    But the reality is that any good business professional is constantly learning. The principles of Kaizen, or as Tony Robbins would put it CANI (TM - $1000 please!) apply not only to the business, but also to those behind it.

    With particular regard to internet marketing, the technology and tactics are evolving daily. As such, there is a constant need for a constant stream of information in order to not only stay ahead of the game, but also to simply tread water.

    What I would also like to add is that I've been a marketer for almost twenty years on and offline, and I have learned more about internet marketing tactics from this forum alone than any high priced infoproduct...so thanks everyone.

    Thomas
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    • Profile picture of the author sylviad
      Quite possibly, lack of patience causes some people to perpetually buy new products. When the results don't come fast enough, they start looking for a better plan to follow. Of course, each plan is only as good as the user, but many people just don't see that.

      We live in a world of "instant results" and I think it's probably more prevalent in younger IMers.

      And then there are people with unrealistic expectations. They are prone to disappointment because they set goals that only a magician could reach in the time they allow to achieve them.

      It's also possible that they don't take the time to look closely at exactly what it would take to make their goal. If they have no idea have many sales, how much traffic, and what conversion rate is feasible, they cannot see the work involved for success.


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  • Profile picture of the author moneymaker1206
    I agree.

    I used to spend tons of cash on buying the next best thing or getting overhelmed on trying to market so many different kinds of products in so many different way.

    I suggest sticking to one thing and one marketing method at a time. You do not need every product out there in order to be successful.
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    • Profile picture of the author ExRat
      Hi Tranquility (#34),
      Sometimes I think that if I didn't have my fulltime job that would give me the impetus to really DO something to succeed on the net. But knowing I've got my paychecks coming in takes the edge off, even though I'm totally burned out from my job and would love to leave.
      It's that 'edge' you refer to that fires people to success. The ones who are struggling, even though they're full-time IMers, have found ways to also 'take the edge off' too.

      If someone doesn't have the guts to look 'the edge' in the eye and say, "Come on then! Bring on the pressure and the fear, mo-fo" - then they may end up with a nice, 'safe' job as their permanent comfort blanket.

      We must go and seek out that 'edge' and learn to live on it permanently until it becomes a way of life. Challenges don't go looking for people. We must make ourselves really hungry for whatever it is that we desire. And once that target has been knocked down, we may find ourselves hunting happily for the next one.
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      • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
        Originally Posted by ExRat View Post

        Hi Tranquility (#34),
        It's that 'edge' you refer to that fires people to success. The ones who are struggling, even though they're full-time IMers, have found ways to also 'take the edge off' too.

        If someone doesn't have the guts to look 'the edge' in the eye and say, "Come on then! Bring on the pressure and the fear, mo-fo" - then they may end up with a nice, 'safe' job as their permanent comfort blanket.

        We must go and seek out that 'edge' and learn to live on it permanently until it becomes a way of life. Challenges don't go looking for people. We must make ourselves really hungry for whatever it is that we desire. And once that target has been knocked down, we may find ourselves hunting happily for the next one.

        You know Rog, the more I read your posts the more I realize how wise
        you really are.

        Personally, I'd rather just have them put me in the box permanently than
        ever go back to work for the man.

        It will never happen again as long as I'm breathing.
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        • Profile picture of the author ExRat
          Hi Stevo,

          Cheers. I'm a student of wisdom, as opposed to someone who is wise. It's a very long course and I started it very late - but it's never too late - as long as one is still breathing.
          Signature


          Roger Davis

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      • Profile picture of the author davesharp
        Originally Posted by ExRat View Post

        Hi Tranquility (#34),
        It's that 'edge' you refer to that fires people to success. The ones who are struggling, even though they're full-time IMers, have found ways to also 'take the edge off' too.

        If someone doesn't have the guts to look 'the edge' in the eye and say, "Come on then! Bring on the pressure and the fear, mo-fo" - then they may end up with a nice, 'safe' job as their permanent comfort blanket.

        We must go and seek out that 'edge' and learn to live on it permanently until it becomes a way of life. Challenges don't go looking for people. We must make ourselves really hungry for whatever it is that we desire. And once that target has been knocked down, we may find ourselves hunting happily for the next one.
        I should do OK then as I seemed to have lived most of my life on the edge
        , and I wouldn't have it any other way.

        Dave
        Signature
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        • Profile picture of the author Hesaidblissfully
          I think every IM newbie should ask themselves a few questions before they purchase a new product.

          "Does this product help me:

          1. Create or choose an in-demand product.

          2. Get more targeted traffic to my website.

          3. Convert prospects into buyers?"

          Choose a business model that's been proven to work and then WORK IT, until you're seeing consistent results.
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      • Profile picture of the author sylviad
        Originally Posted by ExRat View Post

        Hi Tranquility (#34),...
        We must go and seek out that 'edge' and learn to live on it permanently until it becomes a way of life. Challenges don't go looking for people. We must make ourselves really hungry for whatever it is that we desire. And once that target has been knocked down, we may find ourselves hunting happily for the next one.
        Good one, Roger. It really gets to the core of survival tactics. Human nature forces us to become much more creative and motivated when our lives are on the line. So it is with IM. If you want to succeed, you have to get to the edge and work it for all you've got. The longer you hang on that edge, the more successful you will be... because you just cannot be anything but successful, unless you truly do have a (business) death wish.

        Sylvia
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        • Profile picture of the author GopalG
          This has been plaguing me too in my Internet ventures. Six months of reading and switching got me nowhere. It is very important to get down to action and do it rather than waiting for that elusive quick rich dream
          Signature

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          • Profile picture of the author Tom B
            Banned
            Sometimes I think that this type of behavior is a right of passage.


            I know I purchased a lot of things on this forum and jumped around until I got I started to understand how everything worked together as well as understanding my strengths and weaknesses.

            After that, I started purchasing things that only helped me with what I am trying to achieve. For example, now I am purchasing courses and wso offers for ppc and copywriting. I did get suckered into two public domains offerings but that still goes with my goals of content for some websites.


            I keep telling people that purchasing is fine. There needs to be a way for you to make money back on your purchase. How is the course going to help you. If you don't know than you shouldn't purchase.


            I had a very nice person pm me about a software product of mine. They were really interested but the money was a lot, especially with the exchange rate and the country they lived in. They were unsure because they didn't know how they were going to make the money back or even how they would use it. I talked them out of purchasing. I told them don't purchase anything unless you have a plan and it fits within the plan.


            Plan, plan, plan....


            Great thread John and hopefully more people will listen.
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  • Profile picture of the author jayden.fellze
    I agree that one should not lose focus and should realize that maintaining something called a budget is very important. The primary question to consider is 'Will the product I buy help me improve my business?' May be it is alright to read 'sales pages' provided whenever you read them consider the above question. This should help you invest wisely.
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  • Profile picture of the author SuperAffiliatesTraining
    Banned
    [DELETED]
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    • Profile picture of the author John Taylor
      Originally Posted by SuperAffiliatesTraining View Post


      But I totaly agree with you, buying all the junk out there is well spending for nothing, if people really wanted to work on the first method they have learned I bet they had tons of cash today.
      I didn't describe anything as "junk".

      I said that folks shouldn't buy the latest product,
      just because it's the latest product.

      There are some excellent products available and
      I have bought a significant number of them.

      I bought them because they were relevant to the
      specific needs of my business
      at that time.

      John
      Signature
      John's Internet Marketing News, Views & Reviews: John Taylor Online
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      • Profile picture of the author Michael Mayo
        Hi John,

        I agree with every thing you said in your OP although I did purchase 2
        WSO's today and also a script from the WF Ad section.

        I don't need any of them 'right now", but they will be needed with in the
        next few days while I'm working on my clients sites. I call it my "Cost
        Cutting" method...lol I see that I will need it so I buy it at a discount and
        then I use it when the time is right.

        When I see a Deal on something that fits the project(s) I'm working on, I
        will normally purchase the Item, Add it to my Inventory list and set it aside
        until it is needed.

        The only time I will by a How to ebook or course is when I am breaking
        new ground or the subject happens to be some thing I'm working on at
        the moment.(Research)

        Good post as usual!

        Have a Great Day!
        Michael

        P.S. Thanks for the Business advise the other day!
        Made my life much simpler.
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      • Profile picture of the author tomw
        Originally Posted by Richard Odell View Post

        Want to see what someone thinks is junk?

        http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...tml#post353153

        Folks seem to only want push button solutions, not strategies these days; its such a sad state of affairs.

        Such a glut of free tools, information and resources and a general lack of gumption to put two and two together.

        Remember the old quote " How Can This Forum Make You $50'000 Or More"?

        Perhaps this quote should once again be in front of everyone's faces?

        -Rich
        I understand your point, but the problem with some open source is the fact that it is open source. Any geek with a grudge or simply nothing better to do can ruin you.

        This is why so many commercial sites use things like Broadvision or Media Surface coupled with a bespoke and much more secure CMS platform.

        Thomas
        Signature
        STOP THE TRAFFIK: PEOPLE SHOULDN'T BE BOUGHT AND SOLD
        Help Us Rescue, Rehabilitate And Reunite Victims With Their Families

        STOP THE TRAFFIK is a growing global movement of individuals, communities and organisations fighting to PREVENT the sale of people,
        PROTECT the trafficked and PROSECUTE the traffickers.
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        • Profile picture of the author tomw
          Originally Posted by Richard Odell View Post

          And you think that nothing is invulnerable?

          Get real...

          There is nothing that cannot be hacked - asked Adobe if you are not sure.

          They bleed money like every other application!

          Misconceptions every where!

          Don't believe the hype!

          -Rich
          You're right! Nothing is totally 100% impenetrable but some things are a darn sight more secure than open source.

          I guess next time we advise a client like Lloyds TSB or The Cooperative Bank we'll save them some money and recommend Joomla as the best option for a secure CMS platform.

          LOL! Crazy!

          I think YOU need to "get real"...and refrain from discourteously attempting to patronise someone simply for giving advice, especially when they clearly know about things which you clearly do not.

          Thomas
          Signature
          STOP THE TRAFFIK: PEOPLE SHOULDN'T BE BOUGHT AND SOLD
          Help Us Rescue, Rehabilitate And Reunite Victims With Their Families

          STOP THE TRAFFIK is a growing global movement of individuals, communities and organisations fighting to PREVENT the sale of people,
          PROTECT the trafficked and PROSECUTE the traffickers.
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          • Profile picture of the author tomw
            Richard,

            The last time I checked any self promotional literature or a website representing a service based company there was a client list. This is especially the case with advertising and marketing agencies. If you care to look at, for example, the website of any advertising agency you may, just may, if you're very lucky, catch a glimpse of some highly confidential, apparently protected by non disclosure agreement, top secret material. You know, the kind of stuff that is taking up all that airtime on TV, plastered all over those billboards, filling all that media space in magazines and newspapers.

            Non disclosure agreements are mostly for things very different than you seem to imagine. Perhaps if I'd mentioned some confidential metrics, other such data or a controversial change in customer policy that could be quite sensitive and which we had been engaged to communicate to customers in some way, you might have a case. Of course only had we signed a non disclosure agreement to that effect. Bottom line - a non disclosure agreements covers the things contained therein. Nothing more. Nothing less.

            I was not attempting to solicit business, or "moonlight," but simply to deflect what I took as rudeness, with an attitude which I admit was also wrong. Two wrongs don't make a right etc...

            I spend some of my time here and on other business and marketing forums to share the few little bits and bobs I've picked up over the years and to learn from my friends and peers. I have to admit that the balance is tipped heavily in favour of the learning. As such, I fail to see how you can view my participation and interaction in this forum as anything other than what it clearly is. However, as owner of the business in question, amongst others, should it be something I'd like to do, I guess I can "moonlight" here or anywhere else I choose to.

            Thomas
            Signature
            STOP THE TRAFFIK: PEOPLE SHOULDN'T BE BOUGHT AND SOLD
            Help Us Rescue, Rehabilitate And Reunite Victims With Their Families

            STOP THE TRAFFIK is a growing global movement of individuals, communities and organisations fighting to PREVENT the sale of people,
            PROTECT the trafficked and PROSECUTE the traffickers.
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          • Profile picture of the author Chris Lockwood
            Originally Posted by Richard Odell View Post

            But should you really be giving away the fact that you are working for these clients?

            Under your 'Non disclosure Agreement' you have with these clients you quote, you are putting there businesses at risk and your liberty in jeopardy?
            How does telling us that "tomw" works for some company put anything at risk?
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        • Profile picture of the author Chris Lockwood
          Originally Posted by tomw View Post

          I understand your point, but the problem with open source is the fact that it is open source. Any geek with a grudge or simply nothing better to do can ruin you.
          So I take it your website runs on a Windows server, rather than that crappy open source Linux?
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  • Profile picture of the author John Taylor
    @ Richard Odell & tomw

    How about you guys take your differences out of this
    thread and slug it out elsewhere?

    You're not adding value to the discussion.

    John
    Signature
    John's Internet Marketing News, Views & Reviews: John Taylor Online
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  • Profile picture of the author James Schramko
    Most of the wealthiest people I know have an extensive resource library.

    I was the only person I know in my last industry to buy hundreds of books about selling, business and management. I started buying business books at age 12. I quit that industry as a General Manager in my mid thirties.


    I consume many new products.

    The key is consume - if you buy stuff and never consume it then fair enough that is a waste and an expense. People who buy stuff thinking they get the end result without actually applying it - well we know the answer to that....

    If you buy new products and put them to work for you then it is an investment.

    A key point here is this distinction:

    You must know your overall strategy and make sure your investments are aligned with that strategy. If you check against your strategy first you can avoid buying things that will take you off track.

    For example. I am interested in SEO, PPC, Affiliate marketing but not site flipping. So I filter out site flipping products from my radar. I do consume everything I can for the topics I am interested in. How else can you expect to be an authority in something without being completely up-to-date and conversant with all the latest info?

    Look at people like Chet Holmes and you will see he immerses himself in information to a much deeper level to become a pre-eminent authority.

    I see some people proudly declare they spent hardly anything as if it is a badge of honour. To me that is ignorance. They are working like a slave for 100K a year and missing the true leverage of applied knowledge that could bring them multiples.

    Just putting the other side of the coin out there.

    The investment never stops for the elite.
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    • Profile picture of the author John Taylor
      Originally Posted by James Schramko View Post


      You must know your overall strategy and make sure your investments are aligned with that strategy. If you check against your strategy first you can avoid buying things that will take you off track.

      Just putting the other side of the coin out there.
      James,

      I don't think that your "distinction" is the other side
      of the coin. I think it's the same side, of the same
      coin, from another perspective.

      Essentially, we are saying the same thing. Education
      is an ongoing process that should suit the needs and
      timing of the learner. Not something that should be
      driven by an arbitary launch date.

      John
      Signature
      John's Internet Marketing News, Views & Reviews: John Taylor Online
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      • Profile picture of the author James Schramko
        Originally Posted by John Taylor View Post

        James,

        I don't think that your "distinction" is the other side
        of the coin. I think it's the same side, of the same
        coin, from another perspective.

        Essentially, we are saying the same thing. Education
        is an ongoing process that should suit the needs and
        timing of the learner. Not something that should be
        driven by an arbitary launch date.

        John
        Looks like we agree

        My other side of the coin reference was more pointed at those who simply won't invest - fullstop.

        There is a whole plague on the internet of the "get everything for free" mindset. It seems to stem from the Bum mindset where they celebrate workhorse methods over intelligent marketing methods. It seems such a shame others fall for this bs and then months later cry about not making enough money even though they've worked their fingers to the bone on the keyboard and fed powerbrokers like EZA and Squidoo lots of content.

        I'm just putting forward the notion that strategic investment is a very business-like activity that gets better returns than cheap-minded hobbyists.
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        • Profile picture of the author Francis Miller
          I think part of the problem is the power of sales letters, which seem to be getting better at pressing readers' desire buttons and putting them into a buying trance - compared with 5-10 years ago.

          The biological metaphor of co-evolution could come in useful here. When one's predator develops more weapons, the only way to survive is to develop more defences in response.

          Of course information marketers aren't predators. But they have developed stronger weapons through the use of powerful sales letters.

          So buyers need to fight back in order to stop buying inappropriate information products which damage their business progress and possibly even risk their business survival.

          So they require help to increase their defences so they can say no to those buying trances that almost compel them to buy stuff that won't take them forward.

          And some of the strategies mentioned in this thread will help protect them - like deciding on a business model and following it through, sticking to a plan and being clear about the concept of ROI.
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  • Profile picture of the author Debbie Songster
    James
    I think my patients would have been really upset with me if I hadn't continued my education by keeping up on current techniques and trends in obstetrics.

    The same is true with my coaching clients. They expect me to be current.

    Knowledge is generally gained (in part) through books.

    So the buying never stops as you pointed out - its what you do with that purchase that makes the difference.
    Signature

    Getting back in the grove after taking a year off following a family tragedy.

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  • Profile picture of the author James Schramko
    A small investment in the book INFLUENCE by Cialdini will shield most buyers adequately from being manipulated.
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  • Profile picture of the author Raydal
    I don't see the point. This is the general trend of ANY education course.
    You start out by learning a little of everything and then later on you
    specialize. Those people who buy "everything" are in the primary
    school stage. It is too early to specialize. They NEED a general education.

    Everyone says "I remember the first 6 months, I was jumping all over the
    place, working and not getting any money .. etc, ect."

    GET OVER IT! It's the IM life! You have to pay a price for your
    education. Do you want to just jump in the pool for the first time
    and immediately start swimming. There's a learning curve, for crying out loud.

    Of course those who have already "graduated" and know their business
    well tend to forget the path they took. Success tend to do that to us.

    So, sorry. Every baby needs to fall, bruise, get up again, brush off
    and continue going. And if you think that you are going to short-circuit
    the process you are only hurting that baby.

    I've seen some young Warriors who got "instant success" and it crippled
    their business instead of helping them. They didn't appreciate the
    success because it came too early. It's like the rich kid who inherits
    his fathers money and squanders it.

    So while I respect the good intentions of this post, it's not going to change
    reality. People have to go through the learning process before they
    eventually specialize and nothing you an I say will change that.

    How many times have you heard the "I spent a fortune, making a ton
    of mistakes in the process, but I learned" stories.

    It's nature. If you try to "help" the butterfly by breaking open the
    cocoon, you'll end up crippling its wings.

    -Ray L.,
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    • Profile picture of the author Steve Steinitz
      Hello,

      I've seen it hinted at in this fine thread thread but not stated outright. I'm referring to Andy Henry's recent pronouncement (which I can't seem to find again) along the lines of, choosing and building your business is the core. IM (and associated education) is a set of tactics and strategies for growing your business.

      A full three weeks after reading Mr Henry's post, I'm still in shock at the simplicity, power and life-changingness of its message. It has made me take stock of my skills, dreams and passions in pursuit of one (or more?) business. I'm now also open to continuing my existing career but with the added ninja juice of IM -- a reversal of the view I (tentatively) held before Mr. Henry's post.

      The question of whether to buy this or that book or course fades into the background.

      As JayExtreme might say, "just sayin'".

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author Black Hat Cat
    Banned
    Originally Posted by John Taylor View Post


    Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that I know it all!


    What I am saying is that at some point you need to stop
    buying the latest "You must have this new method" stuff
    just because it's there!

    You should know what kind of business you are running,
    you should know exactly how that business operates. So,
    before you go ahead and click that Buy Now button, ask
    yourself.. "If I invest in this will it help me to make more
    profit in my business?"; "Is my purchase influenced by
    curiosity, urgency or scarcity?"; "If I didn't need this
    yesterday, why might I need it today?"

    You might just save yourself a fair chunk of cash and,
    more importantly, you might stay focused on doing what's
    best for your business.

    John
    Do you have a course on this I can buy?
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  • Profile picture of the author jhongren
    Hi John,

    I agree with you totally.

    I personally have been reading John Taylor's blog
    and he is an expert in his marketing field.

    In addition, I feel that to build a successful
    business, one needs to plan with the end in mind.

    What kind of business do you want?

    Do you want to own your own product?

    Or do you want to sell someone's else product?

    Beside products, are you offering any service?

    Type of products which you can offer:

    1. ebooks
    2. mp3
    3. videos
    4. membership sites and many more...

    Type of services:
    1. set up
    2. writing
    3. transcript
    4. coaching
    5. consultant and many more...

    By knowing what you really want for your business,
    then you can source for the right kind of tools
    to build your business forward.

    What most could be doing is getting any kind of
    tool which they can lay their hands on and
    then they ask themselves.... "hmmmmm...
    lets see what I can do....let's try....


    To conclude, I would like to give an example:

    Lets say you want to be successful in making
    US$3000 per month by Feb 2009. (which
    is in fact a realistic goal and given that you
    have more than 60 days to achieve it.)

    What are your plans? Perhaps to sell other
    people's products...

    What kind of products? You decided to go for a niche
    product and you are familiar with Clickbank...

    So what are the tools you need and where
    can you find them?


    Affiliate marketing knowledge:

    Free resource:
    From Warrior forum, just search for "affiliate marketing"
    and there are tons of free info

    Paid resources:
    You can always check out the WSOs and
    purchase affiliate marketing ebooks or
    sign up for any coaching by anyone who
    is successful in affiliate marketing. (and
    not any ebooks or products that you feel
    like buying or you feel like trying....)


    This is what I meant by planning with the end
    in mind.

    My 2 cents,
    John
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