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IMers should feel sadness, fear over India

by donhx
14 replies
Two very bad things are happening in India, and I think people in other countries, including the US, should be concerned. The Indian government is effectively eliminating free commerce and free speech for Indian citizens.

Could this happen in America? How would it change the Internet/IM game?

1. The Central Bank of India has institued rules that effective make PayPal useless for e-commerce. This is no small thing since PayPal is popular in India.

2. The Indian government has instituted new rules that will chill or kill free speech:

From the BBC

"...Any comment considered objectionable be removed by the host site within 36 hours of it receiving a complaint.

The definition of what should be taken down includes anything which is - "grossly harmful, harassing, blasphemous defamatory, obscene, pornographic, paedophilic, libellous, invasive of another's privacy, hateful, or racially, ethnically objectionable, disparaging, relating or encouraging money laundering or gambling, or otherwise unlawful in any manner whatever."

Anything which - "threatens the unity, integrity, defence, security or sovereignty of India, friendly relations with foreign states, or public order or causes incitement to the commission of any cognisable offence or prevents investigation of any offence or is insulting any other nation," must also be removed."

....About 35 million people in India use Cyber Cafes. The Cafe's are now required to keep a record of the name, address, photo, and browsing history of visitors and submit this to a the agency .

....Such requirements are a necessary price to pay for national security, the authorities say.

BBC News - Freedom fears of India's web users

Much of this sounds like the worst kind of totalitarianism to me. I feel sadness for the many Indian IMers out there.
#fear #feel #imers #india #sadness
  • Profile picture of the author ShelbyC
    Isn't that what they're trying to do here right now with the Internet Blacklist bill?

    Sure thing it could happen in America.
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    • Profile picture of the author peace2011
      Originally Posted by ShelbyC View Post

      Isn't that what they're trying to do here right now with the Internet Blacklist bill?
      India copies what USA does.
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  • Profile picture of the author Capitalist_Pig
    America has a culture of distrust of authority and individualism. I'm not saying that it won't happen here - but I will say that the results won't be identical.
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  • Profile picture of the author Clyde
    This is worse than wire-tapping phones.

    People can't even watch porn comfortably in India nowadays, lol.
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    • Profile picture of the author mojojuju
      Originally Posted by uniches View Post


      People can't even watch porn comfortably in India nowadays, lol.
      It's the same here in the United States. We can't even watch porn at a PUBLIC library.
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      :)

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  • Profile picture of the author Alex Frei
    grossly harmful, harassing, blasphemous defamatory, obscene, pornographic, paedophilic, libellous
    shouldn't be removed?

    On a philosophical note... How do you control over a billion people without controlling the information they exchange?
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  • Profile picture of the author williamrs
    I live in Brazil and I don't think that this type of "authoritarianism" wouldn't happen here (despite of the current situation of some of our neighbors such as Venezuela).

    However, the problem here is another: corruption.

    We pay incredibly high taxes here and get nothing in return from the government.

    For example, if I would receive the money that I make with my IM business directly on my personal bank account I'd have to pay 27% in taxes! Yes, the government would keep 1/3 of my earnings. So I use a company to receive the money and pay around 8%, which is still not great, but is at least doable.

    Some of the products have taxes that reach 150%+, specially the imported ones.

    So what is the point of me saying these things?

    It's harder to do IM in the 3rd world countries. In a way or another.

    It's sad but true.


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  • Profile picture of the author rosetrees
    Originally Posted by donhx View Post



    The definition of what should be taken down includes anything which is - "grossly harmful, harassing, blasphemous defamatory, obscene, pornographic, paedophilic, libellous, invasive of another's privacy, hateful, or racially, ethnically objectionable, disparaging, relating or encouraging money laundering or gambling, or otherwise unlawful in any manner whatever."

    Anything which - "threatens the unity, integrity, defence, security or sovereignty of India, friendly relations with foreign states, or public order or causes incitement to the commission of any cognisable offence or prevents investigation of any offence or is insulting any other nation," must also be removed."
    Apart from pornography and gambling (which are legal here in the UK), I would agree with most of that.

    Why do so many people think that the internet can be used for any purpose they like, no matter how illegal or objectionable it is.

    If I were to defame the OP far and wide across the internet, because I decided I had a grudge against him, and in the process destroyed his business, his family life his reputation - I think he might not be so happy.

    Yet this is what happens daily when people post on social networks, blogs, websites, forums etc.

    I still recall when I first joined this forum. As a newbie I was amazed at the blatant lies told on some sales pages. I asked if this was legal. I was shot down in a blaze of posts telling me people could say what they wanted on the internet. The thread was then removed.

    However, when the FTC started making the very things I was asking about illegal, there was a wave of support!

    Back to the OP. I feel sorry that Indian IMers can't use Paypal. I don't feel sorry that they can't lie, cheat, post illegal, defamatory or unpleasant stuff, or lies. Somehow I imagine that most Indian IMers running legitimate businesses would want to be associated with that sort of behaviours anyway
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    • Profile picture of the author LooseChange
      So does that mean I'll get less spammers from cyber cafes in India on my forums and blogs?
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  • Profile picture of the author mattlaclear
    Americans shell out billions to nations who hate them. So obvious it would be a simple task to dupe us into believing anything.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Broberg
    Doesn't freedom of the press extend to the internet? Aren't we all essentially publishing our own thoughts? This would be unconstitutional in America.
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    • Profile picture of the author rosetrees
      Originally Posted by John Broberg View Post

      Doesn't freedom of the press extend to the internet? Aren't we all essentially publishing our own thoughts? This would be unconstitutional in America.
      So you're saying that in America, the land where everyone and anyone can and does sue everyone and anyone for anything - that people can and do publish anything they want that's malicious, illegal, defamatory and no-one stops them?

      I think several thousand expensive libel lawyers would disagree with that.
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      • Profile picture of the author John Broberg
        Originally Posted by rosetrees View Post

        So you're saying that in America, the land where everyone and anyone can and does sue everyone and anyone for anything - that people can and do publish anything they want that's malicious, illegal, defamatory and no-one stops them?

        I think several thousand expensive libel lawyers would disagree with that.
        You're right, they do stop them.

        The lawyers sue them in court, but they don't stand in the press room and read everything being printed. Nor do they stop something from being printed if someone simply says, "I'm offended."

        I'm not against stopping malicious, illegal, or defamatory. I think people should be better to each other.

        However, take care of that on the back end. Don't limit everyone's freedom on the front end.
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  • Profile picture of the author Tom E
    As long as the Powers That Be (not necessarily who we think it is) are profiting/benefiting from something, it will continue. This was obviously not the case in India.

    Watch the Zeitgeist movies if you really want to know why things like these happen.
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