It's Not About ME!!!!

57 replies
Now, I'm expecting some people to read what follows and say I am picking on them. That's up to them, and if they do then they will prove a point :rolleyes:

How many times have we read that sales pages are not about us, it is about the customer. The reader doesn't want to read about you until you tell then a story they can relate to. It is all about them, how the product will solve their problem, how they can get something for their money.

How many forum posts miss this point? It is all about the forum poster.

I did
I was
I went
I had
I am
I gave
I give
I, I, I

Do I want to read your lifestory, not necessarily. When the attention is focused on I, it become hype or self praise, and many of us don't want to read.

When I (yes I know, I keep saying I in this) read a thread which has I in it so many times, I never finish the post.

Try telling the same story but take the focus off self and onto the reader. The post will read far more times, because it isn't about me.
  • Profile picture of the author zachary0611
    I think your right. I seem to do that alot. I like life stories tho. I should have paid attention in English class more.
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  • Profile picture of the author Buildingfutures
    Hmm, to fix this, from now on Sean (thats me) will talk about himself in the third person.

    Sean noticed that he had a lot of 'I's in the post for Bevs gift.

    I also notice that talking in third person is just as, if not more annoying than all the I's.
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  • Profile picture of the author George Wright
    Bev,

    You are right.

    But, I'M Still WRIGHT, ha.

    Good post bev.

    George Wright
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    • Profile picture of the author Charles E. White
      Good post Bev!

      People could care less about what "I" did but they sure would like to know what your product could do for them. If people would just change most of their "I's" to "You's" they would be a lot better off.
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  • Profile picture of the author ptone
    Wow. If all forum posts start adhering to the rules of copyrighting, then I will begin losing interest quickly.

    I happen to like some of the personal stories that are told here as it can provide inspiration to others and we can learn from those stories.

    Now I realize that some personal stories are total hogwash, but I'm a grown man and I can usually tell whether a post is full of crap or is genuine.

    But enough about what I think.
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    • Profile picture of the author Alice Seba
      Originally Posted by ptone View Post

      If all forum posts start adhering to the rules of copyrighting, then I will begin losing interest quickly.
      I tend to agree with you.

      In fact, Bev you used "I" a whole heck of a lot in your post because a forum is a conversation and that includes a bunch of "I"s. I do understand if you're simply asking people not to be long winded and going on and on about their stories/problems/etc. and to get to the point - THAT I whole heartedly agree with.

      I don't think posting in a forum is a popularity contest, so getting as many people to read something as possible is not my goal personally. I don't feel the need to use enticing subject lines or stress out about the WIIFM factor of my readers. I just post what the thread is about, so people who are interested can view it and respond. Again, just regular old conversation - between people who want to share advice, get answers to questions, etc.

      Alice
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    • Profile picture of the author Hesaidblissfully
      I don't think it's the fact that you're telling a story, but HOW the story is told. That being said, you want to impress upon your audience that "If I did it, so can you."
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      • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
        I'll make this reply as objective as possible.

        Either way, you lose.

        There will be those who will tear you apart for using the word "I" in your
        post and there will be those who will be bored stiff because you sound like
        a sales page, and ultimately, lose them as well.

        You won't please everybody. Ask Paul Myers and he'll tell you.

        The bottom line is this. You have to decide what is best for you. If you
        think there is a majority, one way or the other as far as a group that
        prefers "you" to "I" or visa versa, forget it.

        You're going to piss somebody off no matter what you do.

        So be yourself and accept that some people will not approve of what
        you do.

        If you can do that, you'll survive this forum quite well.

        If not, you might want to consider doing something else.
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        • Profile picture of the author mix_daylee
          Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

          I'll make this reply as objective as possible.

          Either way, you lose.
          that's all I have to say about this subject.
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  • Profile picture of the author raynman
    One of the things I was told long ago was that I talk about myself way too much (just like I am doing now...ha). When someone would tell me something the first thing I would do is try and think of some story of how that particular thing or event was similar to something I experienced in my life....again, like I just did. Ugh. POINT IS going through your life history or talking about yourself isn't necessary all the time.

    You have very little time to capture someone's attention before they go to sleep. Whether it's free information that you are giving or something that you are fortunate enough to have someone paying for, you need to get to the point and quick. Unless it has direct impact on what you are trying to get across not just some nice and slightly interesting or humorous antidote from the life of (insert your name here) it may not need to be in there.

    Now let me leave and go take my own advice somewhere.
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  • Profile picture of the author Bev Clement
    I didn't say every post should be a sales letter, I said take the focus of I.

    Yes, I used the word "I" a lot, but did you notice, I didn't take about how wonderful I was, how I did this or that.

    There is a difference between talking with friends, or a conversation where it is always one sided, that becomes boring. Try it in the real world and see what your friends say, when the conversation is always around 1 person.
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    • Profile picture of the author Alice Seba
      Originally Posted by Bev Clement View Post

      There is a difference between talking with friends, or a conversation where it is always one sided, that becomes boring. Try it in the real world and see what your friends say, when the conversation is always around 1 person.
      Of course...I absolutely agree with that. I think the comparison to a conversation is much more appropriate than comparing it to a sales page which is what you appeared to do in your original post. I would hope the goal of participating in a forum is very different than the main goal of a sales page.

      That's all I was saying and I think what ptone was trying to say. Although making your sales copy sound like a conversation to your readers is a desirable result, forum posting needn't be a copywriting exercise. It's just a way for people to communicate with one another like regular ol' human beings.

      In the end, I think you and I basically agree. I was just commenting on the comparison to sales pages. There are enough people who think participating in a marketing forum is about copywriting, being clever etc...I'd hate to encourage them more. ;-)

      Alice
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    • Profile picture of the author CIIC
      Originally Posted by Bev Clement View Post

      I didn't say every post should be a sales letter, I said take the focus of I.

      Yes, I used the word "I" a lot, but did you notice, I didn't take about how wonderful I was, how I did this or that.

      There is a difference between talking with friends, or a conversation where it is always one sided, that becomes boring. Try it in the real world and see what your friends say, when the conversation is always around 1 person.
      I think forums are different than copywriting though, because people don't come to forums with the intention of finding out whether or not they want to buy something. We like to hear stories sometimes, even if we don't connect to them very well.

      However, I do think there are times where the use of "I" is a little bit over the top. Where one's forum posts begin to look a little too much like they are writing a personal blog. You want to blog, get a blog. People don't come to forums to read all about you.
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  • Profile picture of the author tommygadget
    I find your post interesting...

    TomG.

    PS - I hope I am not making those mistakes in my sales letters. Gotta check...
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  • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
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    When you're telling someone a story or writing a sales letter they're more interested in how it relates to them rather than whether you're talking about yourself or not. I've never heard a captivating story that was all about me. It was about someone else. There's a good Gary Halbert direct mail advertisement about weight loss where at least half of the copy is about a guy sharing his story and talking about himself. Sometimes it's much more effective to talk about yourself and use "I" instead of "You" for various reasons. For instance if you want to address something your prospect wouldn't be comfortable being squarely informed about. And somtimes that's simply the more socially intelligent thing to do.
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  • Profile picture of the author mmurtha
    Hi Bev,

    I differ with you to a degree. There is a very big difference between a forum post, and sales copy!

    Yes, I agree with you that anykind of copy should address the prospects and their needs. However, we are not always trying to sell products in forum posts. We are selling ourselves, gifts and tallents included.

    For instance, if someone posts a thread asking for advice about something, people should be able to share their advice freely and talk about themselves. The same is true is someone asks how something worked for them.

    The truth is, in forums people want to hear how certain things worked out by other people. This is what helps make a "Community" a community, and that's what forums are ... they are "Communities" of people gathering together to share ideas, thoughts, information, experiences, etc ...

    We are talking about 2 distinctly different types of relationships and different motives for having the relationships. One is used to sell, and one is used to set you up for sales in my book.


    Mary
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Let's take the following forum thread started by a new member.

      "Hi, I'm new. I'm looking to get into starting my own home business but I
      don't know where to begin. I was wondering if you guys could tell me how
      you started and what results you got doing it."

      There is simply no way of answering this inquiry without talking about
      ourselves.

      Thus, if we completely eliminate the word "I" from our forum vocabulary,
      this person gets no answer to his question.

      There is no way around it that I can see.
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      • Profile picture of the author mmurtha
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        Let's take the following forum thread started by a new member.

        "Hi, I'm new. I'm looking to get into starting my own home business but I
        don't know where to begin. I was wondering if you guys could tell me how
        you started and what results you got doing it."

        There is simply no way of answering this inquiry without talking about
        ourselves.

        Thus, if we completely eliminate the word "I" from our forum vocabulary,
        this person gets no answer to his question.

        There is no way around it that I can see.
        Exactly Steven!

        Btw good analogy.


        Hey DaveBo,

        It's almost like a Dr. Phil thread......someone comes in and complains about not being able to make money and a guy from texas says "now hold on right there.....you realize you said "I" 15 times in that paragraph....it's not all about you!" *cue audience clapping*. Whatever!
        Lol I can see this happening.

        Dr. Phil thread? Hahahaha ... And how would you know what his threads look like? Have yo been sneaking over to his forum?

        J/K!

        Seriously folks, how picky does everyone want to be here? The next thing you know is people will be picking and chosing who can post threads and comments based on how the write there posts.

        It's bad enoug sometimes when people comment in your threads telling you you mispelled something, or didn't use a coma where you should have, etc ...
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        • Profile picture of the author Alice Seba
          Originally Posted by mmurtha View Post

          ... or didn't use a coma where you should have, etc ...
          Hehehe, I'd personally prefer no coma at all. Commas are okay, but comas are not my favorite. ;-)

          Alice
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          • Profile picture of the author ExRat
            Hi Alice,

            Hehehe, I'd personally prefer no coma at all. Commas are okay, but comas are not my favorite. ;-)
            Ha! Tooshay!,,,,

            When it's really cold outside, my extremeties freeze over and go to sleep - I get coma-toes.
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            • Profile picture of the author valerieSONORA
              Originally Posted by ExRat View Post


              Ha! Tooshay!,,,,
              Can I give you an infraction for spelling tooshay and using four commas at the same place? I'm really tempted to. I almost did but I am upholding extreme self control in this situation.
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              • Profile picture of the author ExRat
                Hi AG,

                Can I give you an infraction for spelling tooshay and using four commas at the same place? I'm really tempted to. I almost did but I am upholding extreme self control in this situation.
                Infract away to your heart's content, girl

                With my level of intellect - similar to that of a dolphin, I would have thought it was pretty obvious that I did it on porpoise.
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          • Profile picture of the author mmurtha
            Originally Posted by Alice Seba View Post

            Hehehe, I'd personally prefer no coma at all. Commas are okay, but comas are not my favorite. ;-)

            Alice
            Hi Alice,

            Lol it was mispelled on purpose. The other mistakes in that post were written to illustrate my point.

            Amd you Exrat,

            Ha! Tooshay!,,,,

            When it's really cold outside, my extremeties freeze over and go to sleep - I get coma-toes.
            Lol you are so bad Roger!

            Ya can't get anywhere like that now can ya?
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        • Profile picture of the author Myles Sinclair
          Originally Posted by mmurtha View Post


          It's bad enoug sometimes when people comment in your threads telling you you mispelled something, or didn't use a coma where you should have, etc ...
          You missed the "h" off the word "enough" lol

          Sorry, I couldn't resist.

          Myles
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      • Profile picture of the author matthewd
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        Let's take the following forum thread started by a new member.

        "Hi, I'm new. I'm looking to get into starting my own home business but I
        don't know where to begin. I was wondering if you guys could tell me how
        you started and what results you got doing it."

        There is simply no way of answering this inquiry without talking about
        ourselves.

        Thus, if we completely eliminate the word "I" from our forum vocabulary,
        this person gets no answer to his question.

        There is no way around it that I can see.
        I don't really think this is what Bev is referring to though. I may be wrong here but I think she was referring to people coming into threads and where people ARE NOT asking for other people's experiences... Most new questions seem to be more like this:

        "Hi, I'm new. I'm looking to get into starting my own home business but I
        don't know where to begin. I was wondering if you guys could tell me how
        I should get started."

        So, now it would not be appropriate for someone to come in and type 500 words about how they market weight loss products because they are passionate about weight loss and they make $1 kazillion/year doing it because they are so great at building relationships with their emails lists... blah blah blah. All of the self serving crap leading up to the final point of telling them to start with a passion or start in a hungry market or whatever the main point is.
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      • Profile picture of the author Eric Reimers
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        Let's take the following forum thread started by a new member.

        "Hi, I'm new. I'm looking to get into starting my own home business but I
        don't know where to begin. I was wondering if you guys could tell me how
        you started and what results you got doing it."

        There is simply no way of answering this inquiry without talking about
        ourselves.

        Thus, if we completely eliminate the word "I" from our forum vocabulary,
        this person gets no answer to his question.

        There is no way around it that I can see.
        "You should take a look at blankety, blanks product."

        "Here's a great marketing course for you to study."

        "People are having great results with this."
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        • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
          Originally Posted by Eric Reimers View Post

          "You should take a look at blankety, blanks product."

          "Here's a great marketing course for you to study."

          "People are having great results with this."
          And how is that answering the OPs question?

          He's asking what I did and what results I got.

          The above answers do not give the OP that information.
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          • Profile picture of the author Eric Reimers
            Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

            And how is that answering the OPs question?

            He's asking what I did and what results I got.

            The above answers do not give the OP that information.

            Why not? Is it because the word "I" wasn't used?
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            • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
              Originally Posted by Eric Reimers View Post

              Why not? Is it because the word "I" wasn't used?
              Let's take a look at what you said to reply with and you tell me.

              "You should take a look at blankety, blanks product."
              Why? Is it because I used them and found them to work? I haven't made
              that clear by just saying take a look at these products. Where is my
              personal experience and results?

              "Here's a great marketing course for you to study."
              Again, why? Who says? Me? Why? Did I use it? And if so, where are
              my results? Just telling somebody to use something without backing it
              up means nothing. Again, the person asked for my results.

              Where are they?

              "People are having great results with this."
              But am I? Who cares what other people are having? He asked for my
              personal experience
              and I'm not giving it to him.

              In other words, I am not answering his question.

              You'd make a great politician because your answer reminds me of the
              West Wing episode where Danny asks President Bartlet if Deborah O
              Leary called Congressman Wooden a racist and if so, would he be asking
              her to offer an apology.

              To which Bartlet replies, "Deborah O Leary has done a great job at HUD
              in transitioning people from joblessness to jobs...etc."

              He never answers the question but just skirts around it. And each time the
              question is asked, he skirts some more.

              If somebody asks me...

              "How did you start in IM and what were your results?"

              there is only one way to directly answer that person's question.

              "I started....and my results were..."

              You can skirt as much as you like.

              It won't answer the question.
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    • Profile picture of the author youallnome
      Originally Posted by mmurtha View Post

      Hi Bev,

      I differ with you to a degree. There is a very big difference between a forum post, and sales copy!

      Yes, I agree with you that anykind of copy should address the prospects and their needs. However, we are not always trying to sell products in forum posts. We are selling ourselves, gifts and tallents included.

      For instance, if someone posts a thread asking for advice about something, people should be able to share their advice freely and talk about themselves. The same is true is someone asks how something worked for them.

      The truth is, in forums people want to hear how certain things worked out by other people. This is what helps make a "Community" a community, and that's what forums are ... they are "Communities" of people gathering together to share ideas, thoughts, information, experiences, etc ...

      We are talking about 2 distinctly different types of relationships and different motives for having the relationships. One is used to sell, and one is used to set you up for sales in my book.


      Mary

      The forum, for the most part is not a sales copy!


      I completely agree that the forum is a completely different place to website sales copy, or even website content sites. We are all here to learn which is paramount to making more money online.

      A warrior who has a story of success or failure which they are willing to share with others has to tell you about themselves, or you would not be able to relate to it.

      So using selfish words is a good idea.

      Using the forum to share your story or idea, or review is a great thing. It allows us all the ability to relate to their story, which is good. So, be selfish when sharing your concerns and ideas. Use the words that you feel comfortable with, whether you, me, I or whatever...

      But as Bev gives reference to:

      Never over-do the self praise content on your websites. Always write as though you are only focusing on one person. (The person reading your content or sales copy). And make contact with them, usually by sharing the same problem they are having.

      Great post and well worth the amount of replies - well done Bev!

      Wishing you all (every warrior) the best of success for 2009
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      • Profile picture of the author Kat Bartone
        From Bev's post, I did not infer a literal proscription against the use of the word 'I'. I took it to mean more about the message that's conveyed, the underlying intention (as much as we can know and understand someone else's 'intention', which isn't always easy).

        Of course it's alright to use 'I' when we're excited about a new achievement or making our first sale or whatever. Many times, when I read those posts, I often hear a 'Thank you, Warriors!' in there, even when it's not stated.

        And yes, when we're sharing a strategy that has worked for us, recounting what we've done with the word 'I' is absolutely fine. From these types of posts I understand the OP is offering something to help ME.

        I took Bev's post to mean more about the message that's conveyed, not about the literal 'I'. When we voice our opinion, are we open to that of others as well? When someone shares his or her achievement, is it kind of braggy or is it just excitement? If a strategy is shared, is it self-aggrandizement or simply intended to be helpful?

        Granted, sales pages require a benefit-rich, customer-centric focus. But even as far as forum posts is concerned, the use of the word 'I' doesn't itself mean that the underlying intention is not to benefit 'you' - although granted, the intention might be a whole lot clearer without a lot of 'I's.

        If we read between the lines - or around the 'I's - what's the message that we take away from a particular post?

        This is certainly a worthwhile dynamic to pay attention to, IMO. It gets me to think a little more critically (in a good way) about the whats, hows, and whys of my posts.


        -Kat
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        • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
          Originally Posted by Kat Bartone View Post

          From Bev's post, I did not infer a literal proscription against the use of the word 'I'. I took it to mean more about the message that's conveyed, the underlying intention (as much as we can know and understand someone else's 'intention', which isn't always easy).

          Of course it's alright to use 'I' when we're excited about a new achievement or making our first sale or whatever. Many times, when I read those posts, I often hear a 'Thank you, Warriors!' in there, even when it's not stated.

          And yes, when we're sharing a strategy that has worked for us, recounting what we've done with the word 'I' is absolutely fine. From these types of posts I understand the OP is offering something to help ME.

          I took Bev's post to mean more about the message that's conveyed, not about the literal 'I'. When we voice our opinion, are we open to that of others as well? When someone shares his or her achievement, is it kind of braggy or is it just excitement? If a strategy is shared, is it self-aggrandizement or simply intended to be helpful?

          Granted, sales pages require a benefit-rich, customer-centric focus. But even as far as forum posts is concerned, the use of the word 'I' doesn't itself mean that the underlying intention is not to benefit 'you' - although granted, the intention might be a whole lot clearer without a lot of 'I's.

          If we read between the lines - or around the 'I's - what's the message that we take away from a particular post?

          This is certainly a worthwhile dynamic to pay attention to, IMO. It gets me to think a little more critically (in a good way) about the whats, hows, and whys of my posts.


          -Kat

          Kat, well said. You make some excellent points.

          The problem comes when people try to "guess" the intent of the OP and
          assume that the intentions are less than "honorable".

          That's where we run into problems with members "accusing" others of
          having ulterior motives and from there the arguments begin.

          In that respect, and I say this ironically as I am probably one of the
          biggest I posters here, you're probably safer making posts that don't
          include the word "I" in it.

          Of course I will never take my own advice on this matter as I have finally
          realized that I'm not going to make everybody here happy and therefore,
          it's futile for me to try.

          But as I was saying, this was an excellent post and I enjoyed reading it.

          (Note: There were 2 "I's" in that last sentence alone )
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          • Profile picture of the author Kat Bartone
            The problem comes when people try to "guess" the intent of the OP and
            assume that the intentions are less than "honorable".
            Absolutely right, Steven. We can't truly know the intention of the other, not in this type of setting anyway. And it can be hurtful when we guess wrong.

            Those that may use the message of this thread as justification to point fingers at others are missing the point. The real value in this thread is that it opens my mind to being more mindful of my OWN intention - and there's opportunity for growth there.

            (Note: There were 2 "I's" in that last sentence alone )
            LOL, I'm counting my "I's", too! Too many, I fear... :rolleyes:

            -Kat
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  • Profile picture of the author sevenish
    I'm guessing that Bev might be referring more to discussions here on the forum that somehow get derailed when someone sees it as an opportunity to tell their own protracted -- albeit somewhat irrelevant -- story. Just a guess, although she did use a bad sales page that fails to communicate empathy with the reader as an example.

    I think the analogy works when the topic is appreciative inquiry, communication, context.

    It happens upon occasion on line and in real life; some people can't engage without talking about themselves. And no, I've no one in mind particularly ... 'cept maybe a certain distant relative of mine.
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  • Profile picture of the author redneckmark
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  • Profile picture of the author gcjmarkets
    Hello, I don't know about anyone else and please don't take this as me being sarcastic because I would really like an answer but how does talking about yourself in a thread relate to marketing?

    I understand the reasoning when it comes to writing sales letters but when I make a post or thread it is not to sell anything just to pass on my experience and possibly help other readers.

    If there is a reason that will benefit forum posters with their marketing I would love to know it
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    • Profile picture of the author Mark McClure
      Sweetest word in the spoken language is the other person's name.
      Isn't that right, Bev? ;-)

      It's probably also true when read on a LCD screen - maybe referencing a specific poster's comments and ideas by name and thread URL goes a long way to get their attention and considered reply - somewhat canceling out the me,me tone.

      Verily, I have spoken truth ;-)
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  • Profile picture of the author havplenty
    I (oops), I meant you are absolutely right. The focus should be entirely focused on the reader. After all, the main reason anyone makes a post to enrich the life of everyone else. In theory at least.
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  • Look, folks, let's not obsess about this good working rule. Customer or reader focused copy is the backbone of good communication. Self-referential writing comes across as a bit childish, as a rule (not an absolute).

    Here's a useful link for you to use and learn from: We We Calculator - measure your copy for customer focus

    Here's a spelling lesson for those of you who are wont to say "tooshay" and "wahlah": touché, voilà...

    Here's a pointless self-reference: my sister works for Google. Doesn't do me any good -- she won't even let me look over her shoulder when she's reading her email!
    Signature
    "The will to prepare to win is more important than the will to win." -- misquoting Coach Vince Lombardi
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  • Profile picture of the author AndreVas
    Simple explanation:

    Self-expression is one of primary needs in human psychology. It's built in and needed for survival. Like love.

    And self-expression is expressed in "I". Others are "me" and "my".

    And forum is one of best places to self-express yourself.

    So logically - you can say what you want.

    But what's going on really, is people are satisfying their need of self-expression.

    Every behavior is driven by some need of self-interest, most unconscious ofcourse.



    REAL LIFE EXAMPLE OF ABOVE EXPLANATION: You always look at yourself FIRST in the picture. Or you always look for reply to YOUR post. You always place yourself first.
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  • Profile picture of the author tinnas
    I find this wery interesting...
    Keep up the good work Bev.

    Tinna
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    • Profile picture of the author Kevin Riley
      Me, ME, me, moi, ich, watashi. It's all about me!
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      Kevin Riley, long-time Warrior living in Osaka, Japan

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      • Profile picture of the author Kevin Riley
        ... unless of course, we are talking about THEM.
        Signature
        Kevin Riley, long-time Warrior living in Osaka, Japan

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    • Profile picture of the author MaskedMarketer
      Originally Posted by ZigZag View Post

      When you're telling someone a story or writing a sales letter they're more interested in how it relates to them rather than whether you're talking about yourself or not. I've never heard a captivating story that was all about me. It was about someone else. There's a good Gary Halbert direct mail advertisement about weight loss where at least half of the copy is about a guy sharing his story and talking about himself. Sometimes it's much more effective to talk about yourself and use "I" instead of "You" for various reasons. For instance if you want to address something your prospect wouldn't be comfortable being squarely informed about. And somtimes that's simply the more socially intelligent thing to do.
      Zig,

      Great point. I think its been said "You" is a very persuasive word.. but so are entertaining stories about me. I read magazine and direct mail advertising sometimes and have noticed that they have a story about "them". Because by telling the story about "them" you can transfer the experience of "them" to "me".

      And when they transfer the experience to me and "I AM" in the story- theres a better chance I'll buy. Its just a part of human influence and using the word "YOu" is not set in stone and might even be bad in some cases.

      Direct mail / magazine advertising is probably more thoroughly tested than most of the "IM" sales letters out there which is why i prefer to read them first and mix it in with very good, proven Internet sales letters.
      Signature

      "One Man's Ceiling is Another Man's Floor
      "


      "I Pay Less Attention to What Men Say. I Just Watch What They Do."
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      • Profile picture of the author MaskedMarketer
        Originally Posted by Bev Clement View Post

        The reader doesn't want to read about you until you tell then a story they can relate to. It is all about them, how the product will solve their problem, how they can get something for their money.

        Do I want to read your lifestory, not necessarily. When the attention is focused on I, it become hype or self praise, and many of us don't want to read.
        Thats the point, you tell a story about yourself, that they can relate to.
        And you link the solution to you're product. When you do this you can transfer the story and experience you're telling about yourself, to the reader/ prospect, unconsciously. Its VERY powerful. Many direct mail and magazine ads do this.

        When you use the word "I" in a story, you might be talking about YOURSELF, but when someone reads the word "I", it may have a different meaning in there mind...
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        "One Man's Ceiling is Another Man's Floor
        "


        "I Pay Less Attention to What Men Say. I Just Watch What They Do."
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  • Profile picture of the author Dave Patterson
    To cure this problem eye usually just poke a finger in my I.
    Signature
    Professional Googler
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Let me add one thing to the post I made above.

      There are some people at this forum who constantly talk about themselves.

      I am one of them and freely admit it.

      Why do I do it?

      Simple.

      My goal is to show newer members how to be successful by showing them
      real live examples of what I have done.

      What better compelling case is there for teaching others than to say,

      "Hey, this is what I did and these are the results"

      Some take offense to this...Actually, many do.

      And that's fine. They're not my audience. I'm not speaking to them. I am
      speaking to those who I know will benefit from what I have to share.

      For what it's worth, and I know this is going to bring a lot of flack from
      several folks here, I think we all get too hung up on what people say
      here and how they say it.

      Last I looked, there wasn't a rule posted on top of this place that read...

      "You can't talk about yourself."

      Those who don't like others who do this, they'll simply have nothing to
      do with those self centered, egotistical people.

      Those who do like others who speak about themselves, and in the process
      share knowledge that helps them, WILL want to have something to do
      with those people.

      As Paul Myers has so elegantly stated many times, "When you try to
      please everybody, you please nobody."

      So you need to pick and choose just who it is you want to please.

      I choose to please those who I know I can help.

      Now I'll just go back and hide in my bunker and let the peanut gallery
      have their shots at me.

      I'm quite used to it.
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      • Profile picture of the author lgibbon
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post


        My goal is to show newer members how to be successful by showing them
        real live examples of what I have done.
        Where are these real live examples then?
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  • Profile picture of the author Allen Graves
    Steve,

    You are correct on many points.

    You are also going to have lonely, negative people who troll around and try to antagonize you. Hiding in the bushes until they can post in controversial threads and spit out infractions like they're candy for kids.

    Like you said, you can't please everyone.

    However, those who continue to purposely follow your posts, stalk you and throw out crappy comments to hijack your thread are not who Bev is referring to in her OP.

    Those people are currently being talked about in another thread. <wink>

    Allen Graves
    Signature
    Every day I check the obituaries. If I don't see my name there, then I know it's going to be a good day!
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    • Profile picture of the author lgibbon
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Allen Graves View Post

      and spit out infractions like they're candy for kids.
      I totally agree.
      I was only looking at the ones I've received yesterday.
      They were all given by people who abuse the forum and were caught out.
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      • Profile picture of the author MaskedMarketer
        Originally Posted by matthewd View Post

        I may be wrong here but I think she was referring to people coming into threads and where people ARE NOT asking for other people's experiences... Most new questions seem to be more like this:
        If they're not asking for other experiences, what are you suggesting they are asking for? Some type of advice, is that right?

        Originally Posted by matthewd View Post

        "Hi, I'm new. I'm looking to get into starting my own home business but I
        don't know where to begin. I was wondering if you guys could tell me how
        I should get started."
        Looks like this person needs advice on how to start a home business.

        Originally Posted by matthewd View Post

        So, now it would not be appropriate for someone to come in and type 500 words about how they market weight loss products because they are passionate about weight loss and they make $1 kazillion/year doing it because they are so great at building relationships with their emails lists... blah blah blah. All of the self serving crap leading up to the final point of telling them to start with a passion or start in a hungry market or whatever the main point is.
        I use and look at stories as a way to persuade and to sell. If you look at salesletters for direct mail and in magazines, people WILL be talking about themselves and what THEY DID. Exactly what you're mentioning above.

        If you want to give someone advice (selling your advice) then you can persuade through story telling.

        In fact, Real World Experiences are very compelling if done correctly. Yours or someone else RWE.
        Signature

        "One Man's Ceiling is Another Man's Floor
        "


        "I Pay Less Attention to What Men Say. I Just Watch What They Do."
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        • Profile picture of the author matthewd
          Originally Posted by MaskedMarketer View Post

          If they're not asking for other experiences, what are you suggesting they are asking for? Some type of advice, is that right?
          Yes, advice on how THEY should get started, not how I got started. I would say it's ok to say: "Hey, I started with X technique and it got me Y result... so, this is what you need to do to get started" but it is annoying when people come in and write huge stories about how they are doing it and how much they are making from it when the person just wants some simple advice.

          Originally Posted by MaskedMarketer View Post

          Looks like this person needs advice on how to start a home business.
          Okay.

          Originally Posted by MaskedMarketer View Post

          I use and look at stories as a way to persuade and to sell. If you look at salesletters for direct mail and in magazines, people WILL be talking about themselves and what THEY DID. Exactly what you're mentioning above.

          If you want to give someone advice (selling your advice) then you can persuade through story telling.

          In fact, Real World Experiences are very compelling if done correctly. Yours or someone else RWE.
          We aren't talking about selling, are we? I thought we were discussing people posting in forums about themselves constantly... not sales pages.

          Still, in a sales page you want to relate it back to the reader. Of course you are going to tell your own story, but you have to get the reader to picture himself/herself in the story instead of picturing you.
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  • Profile picture of the author Allen Graves
    hmmmm. Looks like someone has just placed himself into that category of people Bev was referring to in the OP. LMAO

    Zero respect,
    Allen Graves
    Signature
    Every day I check the obituaries. If I don't see my name there, then I know it's going to be a good day!
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by Allen Graves View Post

      hmmmm. Looks like someone has just placed himself into that category of people Bev was referring to in the OP. LMAO

      Zero respect,
      Allen Graves
      Allen, that's the beauty of the ignore list.

      I have no idea what's going on and I honestly don't care to find out.

      Peace at last.
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  • Profile picture of the author Allen Graves
    Guess who. LOL

    Our stalker arrives. as usual.

    Moving this convo to PM....

    AL
    Signature
    Every day I check the obituaries. If I don't see my name there, then I know it's going to be a good day!
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  • Profile picture of the author hyperjedz
    Some forums are good sources for tips on several matters. As much as i can, I try giving tips to others and at the same time try to look for some good tips from other forumers as well.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jeffery
    When a member asks a simple question as in "How Did You ..?" the original poster is in search of "I Did It.." answers. The explicit purpose of the thread is to receive answers based on "I" answers.

    There are also answers that relate to business partners working together as in "We Did It .." Be it "I" answers or "We" answers - both relate to the topic.

    Anyone that responds to the Original Post was asked to share how they as an individual or partnership succeeded or even failed.

    Personally, I would hope that the answer(s) are honest and answered from the "I" position .. instead of dishonest answer(s) from the position "Follow My Signature."

    Jeffery 100% :-)
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    In the minute it took me to write this post.. someone died of Covid 19. RIP.
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