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You're doing this wrong - and it's costing you a lot of money (how to get all the help you need)

by TimCastleman
12 replies
I am just now coming out of the haze from my presentation at the Warrior Forum event last week and I had some time to reflect while in Hangover land.

I remember the first time I spoke it was electric. I got off stage and was greeted by Robert Plank and Lance Tamwhatever (kidding Lance). We shot the stuff for a while and then the faithful words were spoken:

"We should work together." Imagine that two internet marketers wanting to work with me of all people.

We exchanged information and for the next couple of weeks I twitter stalked and emailed them a ton asking them to help me - help me - help me.

That help never came. And it never will. Because I was doing it all wrong.

Look, you want to get a persons attention and help in internet marketing???

HELP THEM FIRST.

Simple I know but everyday I get reminders that you just don't get it.

People email me, skype me, etc - promote for me, promote for me, promote for me.

WRONG!

Instead they should be doing this -

Hey Tim I'd like to promote your XYZ product to my list and see if I can make some sales

or

Hey Tim I noticed you don't have a download page setup for this product, so here is one to use, etc.

This has worked and will continue to work time after time.

In fact I am Eric Louviere's number #1 affiliate for his WSO - I BEGGED him to let me promote it and when I did he emailed me thanking me for all the sales and HE ASKED ME how he could me??

Same thing with Marlon Sanders. Bought his Traffic Dashboard product (which rocks by the way) promoted it to my list and other places, made some sales and next thing I know Marlon and I are talking via Skype.

Imagine that both of these players with pull now want to help me...

Why??

Because I was different. Instead of asking for them to help me first - I went ahead and helped them, opened my list and did some serious work for them and asked nothing in return.

Either of these could of never contacted me and I would of been fine with that - because I just wanted to help.

So next time you're asking yourself - how do I get on GURU X's radar - find a way to help, add value, and make them some money and MAYBE, just maybe they'll return the favor.

Good luck and happy hunting.

Tim

PS: What day is it?
#costing #lot #money #wrong
  • Profile picture of the author cheilman
    Tim,

    thanks for this post. I'm a newbie, green, wet behind the ears, etc etc. As I have been learning things, I have noticed that a lot of people are always about me me me me.

    Everyone wants to make money. I believe thou if that is all you want to do, that is going to hurt your business in all aspects. Helping someone else because you are able to help should always be on the top of the radar for any person in business.

    It doesn't have to be the most important but it is part of any business. Even in major cooperations have partners, signed deals with people that they have helped or have been helped.

    Just my food for thoughts ^_^
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    • Profile picture of the author VanessaB
      Tim,
      I'm a big believer in The Law of Reciprocity, but I must say:

      Every time I see this 'tactic' discussed, there is some very vital information left out of the process which causes a 'disconnect.'

      You say you emailed your list. Most newbies don't have a list yet.
      You worked to promote their product. Most newbies don't know how to promote yet.

      You were already two steps ahead of them here, and those two steps were vital to your ability to execute this tactic.

      To the 'raw' newbie, if you had a list and knew how to drive traffic, why would you be 'begging these guys for help?'

      Maybe to reach a larger audience than you already had with your own traffic generation skills and list...but certainly not to 'get started.'

      I'm not picking on you, I've just seen this so many times, and that vital information on 'how to get that list' and 'how to drive that traffic' is always left out of this advice, making it once again seem like you have to be a member of the 'good ole' boy network' and 'pay your dues' to make this advice work.

      JMHO.

      -Danielle

      P.S.       The 'maybe, just maybe' part about 'they might do something in return,' after you've done a bunch of work to make them money, never did sit well with me. Structuring a business plan on a 'hope' isn't a very good tactical maneuver.
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      • Profile picture of the author Tina Golden
        I don't believe Tim's talking about structuring a business plan around what he's saying, Dani. You'd have to be an idiot to build a plan around "might if" and "maybe".

        But even a rank newbie has SOMETHING to offer - even if that is just feedback on a product that shows they actually read it and maybe even...

        <gasp>

        Took action on it!

        What "guru" or big name marketer is above hearing how fantastic their products are and how much they have helped people? That's sometimes all it takes to get a dialogue going and isn't there where all networking begins?
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      • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
        Originally Posted by DanielleS View Post

        Structuring a business plan on a 'hope' isn't a very good tactical maneuver.
        Isn't every business fundamentally built on the 'hope' that people will do business with you?

        I 'hope' people click this AdSense.

        I 'hope' people buy this banner space.

        I 'hope' people hire me to write for them.

        I 'hope' people buy my product.

        I 'hope' people want my coaching.

        Risk aversion is the single biggest reason people never accomplish anything on the internet. They don't want to build on a "hope," so they don't build.

        But I agree with you on the disconnect. There are obstacles. Those of us who have a list and know how to promote can easily say "just mail your list," as though it's nothing. I've certainly been on the other side of that going "List? What list? Where do I get a list?" - but at the same time, everyone has SOMETHING they can do. Maybe you can make some graphics, or write some articles, or do some web design.

        Hell, just buy the product and send them a video review. Video reviews convert like mad. They'll remember that. And pretty much anyone can do one of those.
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        "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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        • Profile picture of the author VanessaB
          Originally Posted by Tina Golden View Post

          I don't believe Tim's talking about structuring a business plan around what he's saying, Dani. You'd have to be an idiot to build a plan around "might if" and "maybe".

          But even a rank newbie has SOMETHING to offer - even if that is just feedback on a product that shows they actually read it and maybe even...

          <gasp>

          Took action on it!

          What "guru" or big name marketer is above hearing how fantastic their products are and how much they have helped people? That's sometimes all it takes to get a dialogue going and isn't there where all networking begins?
          Tina, I agree with you. But...
          1.) let's face facts, most newbies have no concept that their feedback has any value. Most of them are, at the newbie point, in this business because they read somewhere that they could make money sleeping in their underwear, and aren't making a 'business plan' but instead they are reading these kinds of posts on these kinds of forums and scratching their heads (or their asses) thinking... "well how do I get a list to do that?"

          2.) he said 'begged for help that never came'- until he did something for them expecting nothing in return... but the whole post contradicts that, as it's posed to say do this to get a return, but don't expect a return...

          2, the missing element and the demographic makeup of the 'newbie' put together here just says to me... if I didn't know how to build a list or drive traffic I'd be confused myself.

          Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

          Isn't every business fundamentally built on the 'hope' that people will do business with you?

          I 'hope' people click this AdSense.

          I 'hope' people buy this banner space.

          I 'hope' people hire me to write for them.

          I 'hope' people buy my product.

          I 'hope' people want my coaching.

          Risk aversion is the single biggest reason people never accomplish anything on the internet. They don't want to build on a "hope," so they don't build.

          But I agree with you on the disconnect. There are obstacles. Those of us who have a list and know how to promote can easily say "just mail your list," as though it's nothing. I've certainly been on the other side of that going "List? What list? Where do I get a list?" - but at the same time, everyone has SOMETHING they can do. Maybe you can make some graphics, or write some articles, or do some web design.

          Hell, just buy the product and send them a video review. Video reviews convert like mad. They'll remember that. And pretty much anyone can do one of those.

          CD....
          Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

          Isn't every business fundamentally built on the 'hope' that people will do business with you?
          NOPE. Every low barrier of entry model that caters to those without proper education in business, may be built, by those without that education, on hope.

          Those with that education, build businesses on the fundamentals of proper business planning, marketing planning, and finance planning, all derived from statistical data on the financials (start up costs, operating costs, cost to profit ratios, profit margins, marketing costs and ROI projections) within the given industry.

          Risk aversion (fear) being the single biggest reason that no one accomplishes anything on the Internet is caused by a lack of fundamental knowledge about the science of business.

          #1 Rule of Sales. It's just a numbers game.

          It's knowing how to determine those numbers (through research) that separates hoping from acting.

          -Dani
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          • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
            Originally Posted by DanielleS View Post

            #1 Rule of Sales. It's just a numbers game.
            Numbers are how you measure something that is not itself a number.

            See, imagine that you are sitting outside, and it is kind of cold.

            So you look at the thermometer and it says the temperature is 68 degrees.

            You would rather it was 72 degrees.

            If you take a cigarette lighter and heat up the bulb of the thermometer, the thermometer will reach 72 degrees pretty quickly.

            But it will not be any warmer outside.

            Because it is not "all about" the number on the thermometer. The number on the thermometer means something. It is measuring something that is not a number. The number is just a convenient way to represent it.
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            "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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            • Profile picture of the author Eric Louviere
              Not only was Tim my top affiliate for that product, he sold more than I did.
              Yep, he sold more of my product than I did. Now, that's damn kewl. Tim's
              so cool he pisses ice cubes.

              Tim "ice cube" Castleman!

              it's got a ring to it

              Thanks Dude,

              Eric Louviere
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              • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
                Originally Posted by Eric Louviere View Post

                Yep, he sold more of my product than I did. Now, that's damn kewl. Tim's so cool he pisses ice cubes.

                Tim "ice cube" Castleman!

                it's got a ring to it
                Signature
                "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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      • Profile picture of the author LB
        Originally Posted by DanielleS View Post


        P.S.         The 'maybe, just maybe' part about 'they might do something in return,' after you've done a bunch of work to make them money, never did sit well with me. Structuring a business plan on a 'hope' isn't a very good tactical maneuver.
        If you promote a product as an affiliate...you make affiliate commissions...which is hardly for nothing.

        So either:

        A: I promoted this product and made $2,000 in affiliate commissions.
        B: I promoted this product and made $2,000 in affiliate commissions AND now this person wants to work with me.

        It's not really a losing scenario.
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        • Profile picture of the author VanessaB
          Originally Posted by LB View Post

          If you promote a product as an affiliate...you make affiliate commissions...which is hardly for nothing.

          So either:

          A: I promoted this product and made $2,000 in affiliate commissions.
          B: I promoted this product and made $2,000 in affiliate commissions AND now this person wants to work with me.

          It's not really a losing scenario.

          LB,
          I wasn't referring to promoting their product as an affiliate. I focused specifically on the statement of 'doing something, expecting nothing in return' because I am aware that an affiliate commission is a return.

          I was referring to the idea of doing anything for nothing with no expectation of anything in return. There is nothing wrong with doing that.

          My point was, if you're going to do that, and just that, (do a lot of work for nothing, with no expectations of return) on the hopes that someday a 'name' will notice you and then 'MAYBE, just maybe" help you, you're going to be wasting a lot of time and effort that could be used to actually make money.

          And if you can make money for someone else, you can make it for yourself, and you're beyond the point of needing to 'beg them for help' that they wouldn't give until you didn't need it anymore.

          -Dani
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  • Profile picture of the author MichaelHiles
    Reciprocity?

    Imagine that.

    One of Cialdini's elements of persuasion. Who would have ever imagined that someone could have possibly used that nonsense.

    {sarcasm alert}
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  • Profile picture of the author timpears
    So if the OPs thought isn't as obvious as hell, I don't know. But then why don't people just do this naturally? Because it is so obvious, people just miss it.

    I went to a networking event one time and was so busy trying to promote my project that I forgot to see what I could do to help others with their problems. It was a total failure for me, but I think I did learn a valuable lesson. Too bad I didn't learn it prior to going, but oh well. My timing was never that good anyway.:-)
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    Tim Pears

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