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The upsides/downsides of having double opt-in?

by Matthew NY
12 replies
Hey guys,

I was just wondering if anyone here doesn't use double opt-in on their lists. Do you think that there are any downsides of having double opt-in enabled.

And on the other hand, despite the obvious benefits of having double opt-in enabled, are there any effects in the long run of having a list that anyone has noticed?

Thanks in advanced for the input!

-Matt P
#double #optin #upsides or downsides
  • Profile picture of the author ARVolund
    Downside you will lose some people to the double opt-in. Upside less spam complaints plus you are more covered if you have the second opt-in, nobody can say they did not sign up for your list.

    If someone spends money first I do not require a double, I figure if they are spending money and then filling out my form they do want to hear from me and the purchase usually gives me confirmation of the email address.

    If I am just collecting info then I do a double as there is really no way to tell if the person signing up really controls that email address and is really interested in what I have.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kevin01736
      I use both: double opt in on "normal" signups, and single opt in on buyer-signups (from the page where people are returned to after they have spent something)
      I split these into two "lists", one of casual subscribers, and one of real buyers, who each get a slightly different newsletter.

      Same train of thought as Arvolund - The buyers list is by far the most valuable to me, and I can't see any gain in hassling them with a double opt in after they have already put their money where their mouth is and bought my product.

      it is acceptable legally (UK) to maintain a list of all customers emails without them opting in to a list (subscribing), so long as we only contact them with some legitimate reason based on us having a "business relationship" with them - eg change of address or contact details, change of web site URL, product recall etc.
      So we have a third list from which we do a one-off "customer satisfaction follow up", asking for their feedback on the transaction or product, and also offering them the opportunity to subscribe to the single opt in if they have not done so already.

      We rarely have any problems doing it this way, although I bet we would have more numbers on the list with single opt in, we seem to have built a better quality-buyers list this way.
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      • Profile picture of the author Nick Bykov
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Kevin01736 View Post

        I use both: double opt in on "normal" signups, and single opt in on buyer-signups (from the page where people are returned to after they have spent something)
        I split these into two "lists", one of casual subscribers, and one of real buyers, who each get a slightly different newsletter.

        Same train of thought as Arvolund - The buyers list is by far the most valuable to me, and I can't see any gain in hassling them with a double opt in after they have already put their money where their mouth is and bought my product.

        it is acceptable legally (UK) to maintain a list of all customers emails without them opting in to a list (subscribing), so long as we only contact them with some legitimate reason based on us having a "business relationship" with them - eg change of address or contact details, change of web site URL, product recall etc.
        So we have a third list from which we do a one-off "customer satisfaction follow up", asking for their feedback on the transaction or product, and also offering them the opportunity to subscribe to the single opt in if they have not done so already.

        We rarely have any problems doing it this way, although I bet we would have more numbers on the list with single opt in, we seem to have built a better quality-buyers list this way.
        A little bit complicated, but appears to be working fine for you. It's a very good idea to separate buyers from those casual subscribers.
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    • Profile picture of the author Alfredo Carrion
      Originally Posted by ARVolund View Post

      Upside less spam complaints plus you are more covered if you have the second opt-in, nobody can say they did not sign up for your list.
      I'm not sure about this one. If your autoresponder provider feel like closing your account with some random "spam complaints" issue, they will care nothing if you tell them: "But all my lists are double-optin!".
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      • Profile picture of the author ARVolund
        Originally Posted by Alfredocoach View Post

        I'm not sure about this one. If your autoresponder provider feel like closing your account with some random "spam complaints" issue, they will care nothing if you tell them: "But all my lists are double-optin!".

        You may well be correct. That was what I picked up when I first started and have always had in the back of my mind. It seems though that if you can prove that someone did sign up and confirm that would be better. My lists generally are not IM related and fairly small and targeted, mostly informational with an easy touch when it comes to selling so I have had very few issues. I like the craft type niches for the most part, those people are information whores so the retention and response rate when I do sell something is pretty high.
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        • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
          Banned
          Originally Posted by ARVolund View Post

          It seems though that if you can prove that someone did sign up and confirm that would be better.
          To me, it doesn't "seem" that way. It seems completely irrelevant. Either they "report spam" or they don't. An autoresponder company doesn't investigate. If you're over the "allowed score of spam reports", you're in trouble. (Understandably - because they need to be concerned about their deliverability rates).

          The point usually argued about "spam reports" is that people are (allegedly) less likely to "report spam" if they've confirmed their opt-in. IF that's true, then it's an argument in favour of confirmed opt-in, but I don't believe it's true.
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  • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
    Banned
    Originally Posted by Matthew NY View Post

    I was just wondering if anyone here doesn't use double opt-in on their lists.
    First of all, it's actually "confirmed opt-in", not "double opt-in".

    I have five single opt-in lists, and three confirmed opt-in.

    I decide it on a niche-by-niche basis, as I go along. I've started all these lists over the last two and a half years. With hindsight, I wish I'd made them seven single opt-in and only one confirmed opt-in. In future, I'll err more toward single opt-in.

    Originally Posted by Matthew NY View Post

    Do you think that there are any downsides of having double opt-in enabled.
    There's clearly one major downside: you'll lose some of the people (however carefully you go about advising/instructing/thanking them) because they never confirm their opt-in.

    Originally Posted by Matthew NY View Post

    And on the other hand, despite the obvious benefits of having double opt-in enabled ...
    In my opinion, most of those "obvious" benefits become a lot less "obvious" when you really think about them in detail.

    Some people maintain that you're less likely to get "spam complaints" from lists built with a confirmed opt-in. Call me a skepchick, but I don't believe a word of that. Having confirmed their opt-in is not somehow magically going to prevent people from "reporting spam" if (a) they've forgotten subscribing to the list, and (b) you haven't reminded them adequately/often enough why they're receiving email from you, and (c) you're sending out email which people consider "spammy".
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    • Profile picture of the author onSubie
      Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

      Some people maintain that you're less likely to get "spam complaints" from lists built with a confirmed opt-in. Call me a skepchick, but I don't believe a word of that. Having confirmed their opt-in is not somehow magically going to prevent people from "reporting spam" if (a) they've forgotten subscribing to the list, and (b) you haven't reminded them adequately/often enough why they're receiving email from you, and (c) you're sending out email which people consider "spammy".
      Every post I read reveals more of Alexa's genius.

      I agree with this. In the US, I think you need a "confirmed" opt-it to be FTC compliant. But outside the US the legal aspect is less compelling.

      The visitors did sign up to your list and do have an "unsubscribe" option at the bottom of all emails. The extra step to be compliant seems unnecessary

      To entice confirming opt-ins, many marketers offer a free gift (ebook or whatever) for the opt-in and the Thank You page instructs the person to confirm the email to receive a link to the gift.

      But as was said above, even with a confirmed opt-in people forget which lists they are on and will unsubscribe or complain about spam if you don't maintain a relationship and remind them who you are and why they want your messages.

      Mahlon
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  • Profile picture of the author WebPen
    When I first got into IM, I bought a report on squeeze pages/list building from a well-known marketer.

    He basically said that as long as you let the subscriber know who you are in the beginning (i.e. in the first email), and even include a picture, you should be fine.

    Plus make sure you're regularly emailing them. If you go a few months without sending them anything then all of a sudden start sending affiliate links, they're more likely to hit the "report spam" button
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  • Profile picture of the author arnoldsn
    Banned
    [DELETED]
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      Originally Posted by arnoldsn View Post

      my auto responder is double opt in . how to make single opt in?
      Some autoresponder companies require confirmation of all opt-ins.

      Others (e.g. Aweber) allow new customers a choice for each list, but may withdraw the single opt-in facility (at "account level") from some clients, depending on their assessment of their businesses/activities.
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  • Profile picture of the author GetMoreTraffic
    For high-volume lists, you are pretty much obliged to use double opt in (confirmed opt in if you prefer if you use a major list provider. Even if you get your provider to let you do it, it is not worth the hassle of the inevitable spam complaints, etc.
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    Discover the fast way to accelerate your affiliate income
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    • Profile picture of the author TerranceCharles
      I use single opt-in because it allows me to keep more subscribers. The only
      downside to this is, you cannot verify opt-ins incase of a spam complaint which
      people do regardless of the content, and you will attract more useless email
      addresses and bounces.

      I never had a problem so far with this method, but I know of a few friends who
      had their account deleted from their autoresponder company. To me personally,
      it all depends on what your offering them and how well they know you, if you do
      it right - you shouldn't have any problems either. If your going for more opt-ins,
      single will work, if your worried more about security double will do.
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