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Help me understand something, as I carry a web designers viewpoint

by absbica
13 replies
I am not sure if this has been asked before (sorry, didn't do a search).

I am a web designer, so I am always looking for ways to keep pages lean, clean, fresh, and attractive.

However, everytime I see an "IM" type site...its often 10 miles of copy, testimonials, horrible graphics, and flat out has that "cheap don't buy from me" type of look to it.

however, everywhere I turn people are promoting the $200,000 checks they get in a matter of weeks on these sites, testimonials raving about how the product creator is higher then Jesus Christ himself (ok, exaggeration), and often times..just present a very shady vision of the service...the "almost too good to be true" mentality.

Is it just me...or are a majority of these just scams or poorly executed? Or do they honestly work?

I have an IM friend on here who has done extremely well for himself and I know he makes bank using these techniques...but is he an exception and the rest tend to be copy cats / scam artists?

Its just hard for me to believe, someone who tries to create nice looking sites, that the shoddy ones make the bank, and the nice ones make next to nothing.

Any thoughts are greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Bryan
#carry #designers #understand #viewpoint #web
  • Profile picture of the author Dan C. Rinnert
    To a degree, it depends on the niche. But, ugly sites do sell. I think part of it is that they are more down-to-earth, as it were.

    Think of a used car lot. One salesman is slick and polished and has the slicked back hair, cologne and nice suit and all that. The other salesman is a bit more relaxed, maybe he's wearing jeans and a decent shirt; he's clean, but not metrosexual.

    The slick guy, well, who really trusts him? The other guy, well, maybe you can relate to him better. Maybe he's more like you, more down-to-earth. Maybe you think that's the guy that's going to tell you the truth. He's not spit-polished; he's not calculating every thing he says. He's a bit of a diamond in the rough.

    It's similar for a website. A polished, professional looking site might scream "We want to sell you something!" The ugly website might be saying "I want to help you for a modest fee."
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  • Profile picture of the author billromer
    Bryan,

    In my experience in a non-IM niche - where I modeled a sales page after an IM-type, long-form sales letter - and in IM - mainly in my Warrior Special Offers - this type of copy converts, and I know from some of my colleagues that this type of page design works.

    However, as with everything, new approaches should always be tested.

    In my mind, the copy on these pages mirrors those old (and current) direct mail pieces you see that actually do bring in sales. To me (and apparently others), the brilliant copy just keeps pulling the reader from one sentence/paragraph to the next. How?

    (see what I did there? ;-)

    By tugging on the emotions (hype sometimes), fears, desires, greed, excitement. To me, the graphics don't do very much, but I can see how they might give an air of professionalism to the whole affair. Again, this should be tested.

    I've seen the plainest, Courier-font sales pages with no graphics make great money (much like those direct mail pieces you get in typewriter font and a blue signature - it just works).

    There are certainly many scams out there, but I would suggest looking at what the big dogs do and realize they do it for a reason - John Reese, Frank Kern are two right at the top of my mind. But you can also checkout my friend Brian McElroy and a host of others here on WF.

    Yeah, I hate to see gawdy sites do well, but reality isn't always what it should be, you know?

    Bill
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    • Profile picture of the author absbica
      Originally Posted by billromer View Post

      Bryan,

      In my experience in a non-IM niche - where I modeled a sales page after an IM-type, long-form sales letter - and in IM - mainly in my Warrior Special Offers - this type of copy converts, and I know from some of my colleagues that this type of page design works.

      However, as with everything, new approaches should always be tested.

      In my mind, the copy on these pages mirrors those old (and current) direct mail pieces you see that actually do bring in sales. To me (and apparently others), the brilliant copy just keeps pulling the reader from one sentence/paragraph to the next. How?

      (see what I did there? ;-)

      By tugging on the emotions (hype sometimes), fears, desires, greed, excitement. To me, the graphics don't do very much, but I can see how they might give an air of professionalism to the whole affair. Again, this should be tested.

      I've seen the plainest, Courier-font sales pages with no graphics make great money (much like those direct mail pieces you get in typewriter font and a blue signature - it just works).

      There are certainly many scams out there, but I would suggest looking at what the big dogs do and realize they do it for a reason - John Reese, Frank Kern are two right at the top of my mind. But you can also checkout my friend Brian McElroy and a host of others here on WF.

      Yeah, I hate to see gawdy sites do well, but reality isn't always what it should be, you know?

      Bill
      Thanks Bill and Dan...I think that cleared it up for me.

      I just live in a world where if you can't grab the readers attention in 2 seconds you are screwed...so I guess the giant courier 30px font saying "make $1 million in a week" will keep the user reading

      Thanks for the info.
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  • Profile picture of the author ChrisByrns
    well, i'd say there are two different kinds of surfers..

    - those who are NOT internet savvy: they are just looking for a quick solution to their problem and dont give a flying uck about the looks of a site. for these potential customers, writing good sales copy is more important that designing a killer layout.

    - other webmasters, companies or nerdy technomancers: for those clients you better have a badass design and an a+ track record in order to convert them.
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    • Profile picture of the author absbica
      Originally Posted by ChrisByrns View Post

      well, i'd say there are two different kinds of surfers..

      - those who are NOT internet savvy: they are just looking for a quick solution to their problem and dont give a flying uck about the looks of a site. for these potential customers, writing good sales copy is more important that designing a killer layout.

      - other webmasters, companies or nerdy technomancers: for those clients you better have a badass design and an a+ track record in order to convert them.
      Good call. Well, if I go forward with sites like those with the bad design...I will just feel "dirty"...but on the bright side, feeling a little dirty isn't so bad if my pockets feel a little heavier.
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      • Profile picture of the author pmgguy
        This just makes the case, again, for testing and measuring and tweeking and testing and measuring and.... you get the idea.

        With your level of talent, you should test the same message or product each way, cheesey and high design, use comparable marketing and study the return on investment.

        Keep us posted as you do it, being stronger from the design side myself I have always wondered how these cheesey looking sites make the money, but they do!

        Run them side by side and let us know what the outcome is.

        Good luck!
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  • Profile picture of the author Lindsay Brynn
    I come from a web designer background too and had the same problems as you with it. I have noticed that some nice looking sites have been able to do well too even with using some big headlines etc.

    I just love looking at the code and seeing tables and wondering why they aren't using CSS and then I think that it really doesn't even matter for them.
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    • Profile picture of the author Richard Whyte
      Originally Posted by linm View Post

      I come from a web designer background too and had the same problems as you with it. I have noticed that some nice looking sites have been able to do well too even with using some big headlines etc.

      I just love looking at the code and seeing tables and wondering why they aren't using CSS and then I think that it really doesn't even matter for them.
      Lindsay

      You are so right. Just a couple of minutes ago before I read this thread, I was looking as a sales page and reading the code. I noticed that they used tables for layout instead of the more correct Tech Savy CSS way of doing it.I was thinking that they should fix this and move into the future of design, but then, they are making sales / money off the site so why change it if it is working for you. Some of these people are big fish in the game.... Makes me think maybe I should go back to tables... LOL
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      • Profile picture of the author jan roos
        When I look at local businesses websites I sometimes see very beautifull well designed high tech websites that dont do squad for the business owner. Most of them dont have a sales message at all, no optin form and no call to action. A simple website with good sales copy, proper SEO and an optin form will out perform those sites by a mile.

        If you can design pretty websites and at the same time have good sales copy, a strong call to action on every page with an optin form then you are good to go.

        Cheers
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  • Profile picture of the author Joe_Stec
    Gotta be honest - I've had way more success with a well designed, nice looking site than something that looks like it was spit out of a meat grinder. Good sales copy will sell even if it doesn't look all that great - this is true - but that same copy will often convert better when placed within a more aesthetically pleasing design.
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  • Profile picture of the author GeorgR.
    look at this HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE site which doesnt even display right in FireFox:

    NATURAL CURE YEAST INFECTION, yeast infection treatment, yeast infection symptoms, cause of yeast infection, yeast infection pictures, yeast infection pics

    According to clickbank this site has the highest gravity for "yeast infection"....i cant even REMOTELY see someone buying from this site since the site looks like someone **** it out...seriously.

    I doubt a lot recently when it comes to IM...too much promises and "miracle methods" which turn out being turds, be it "methods" or sites or products.

    People want me or you to believe that you can make the MOST pathetic, pre-school level "sales page" and then make claims how high the profits are with this or that product. I call BS.
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