IS MLM Back In Style?

[TLTheLiberator]

Good luck, new mlm'ers!

When you don't make any money, please remember that you've been warned.

TL

[cypherslock]

TL is it possible to say something positive? You don't agree with this or that model, that's fine. But stop trying to tear it down. It is the same as those threads we've seen that say article marketing sucks or CPA or PPC sucks. They all WORK for the RIGHT person.

[bannerdemers]

For what it's worth.
I too have been burned by mlms. Even after researching as fully as I could. I am doing ok with one right now, but there is actually a product and what I consider a good deal to the consumer. I won't tell my friends and family or hold seminars, but am just listing the product for sale on cl and selling and even recruiting. I joined clickbank and tried affiliating digital product and got nowhere, so I think mlm does ok if you im.

[fred67]

For those who are absolutely convinced that MLM is just a scam - take a look at the business you're in - the business you work for even. Every business on the planet 'depends' on referrals for new business - If a business doesn't expand, it dies - FACT!

Many businesses pay good money to advertise said business - ethical business building - and the cost of the advertising is naturally passed 'forward' to the end customer - That's OK then?

Internet marketers usually PAY for leads one way or another - either with their 'time' - or with their hard cash for PPC leads etc - the cost is passed 'forward' to their customers - That's OK then?

In MLM there is usually no determined advertising budget -WHAT??? - No, in MLM the advertising budget is 'given' to the end user who likes the product and recommends others to buy it as well - Simple, EH?

In most marketing concepts the end user is 'paying' for the promotion of the products they buy. With MLM they are being re-imbursed that money when they take the effort (Which most of do naturally anyway) to recommend the product to others, thus helping to grow the business and being rewarded.

I've been a plasterer all my working life. I've had a small budget each year to advertise in the Yellow Pages. Not because I've needed to, because almost all of my work came from referrals by satisfied customers, and repeat work over the years for the same satisfied customers.

BUT! On the odd occasion, I would take on a new client from Y-P adverts intead of passing them on to other plasterers I knew, and these would grow my workload even more as 'they' passed my details forward to 'other' clients that 'they' knew. My business grew almost on it's own, except for the couple hundred quid a year I'd spend with Y-P. As a result, I was able to ride out a couple of recessions without really noticing they were there.

On the other hand, I had a friend who was an extremely good plasterer as well. But was too set in his own ways for his own good. He was adamant that he didn't need to advertise because ALL of his work came from 'referrals' - which I have to say, it usually did. But when times got difficult, he would often phone me to ask if I had any surplus work available for his chaps until things picked up a bit. Naturally, I'd oblige when possible, but would also ask WHY he wouldn't advertise to get more work.

His answer was always the same - "I've never advertised in my life, I'm not starting now". (Even though his business was crumbling around him) - Rome springs to mind here :-)

I think that just about sums up the MLM nay-sayers here. They say -
"I'm convinced MLM is a Scam, and nobody is going to convince me otherwise" - "Furthermore, I can fish out statistics if necessary to PROVE I'm right".

We can all fish out statistics to prove our cases. Politicians do it on a daily basis to 'prove' that whatever they do is 'RIGHT'.

We all need to look at everything with an open mind. There's good and bad in every single business model you can think of (bar none). Glass houses and all that.

Didn't most people think bankers were trustworthy individuals? It turns out that 'they' are scamsters of the highest order, and even THEY got scammed by one of their own!!

MLM has seen off all the nay-sayers and will continue to make our planet a better place for all concerned.

Good luck in 2009 all.

Pete.

[MaskedMarketer]

Originally Posted by David Frey

Again, if you're going to get into an MLM, find one with a product that can
stand on its own in the marketplace and it's a product that you're in love with.
Where there is a high demand for the product, where you can get legitimate
support, where the comp plan rewards long term workers, and a company that's
been in business for several years.

Good point.

and a lot of people fail because they do not do their due dilligence on the company they want to sign up with.

Some people just sign up because a friend brought them to a meeting.

You should have a standalone product with good commissions

You need a proven company- with a proven SYSTEM

You should be passionate about the product and believe in it

You should look at the leadership of the company and person you join

Obviously more than that, but people don't do there due dilligence and then its the MLM companies fault.

[cypherslock]

Depending on what style you're into (personal dev, nutrition) You may want to check out LifePath Unlimited. I've been watching them for a long time and even have their entry level product (before they revamped). Based on the quality of that one and the quality of the company (having phoned them up and talked at length), FOR ME I think this is the one. But its not because of the comp plan. I'm passionate about personal development and the quality of their products. And I wanted somthign physical as well.

[tranquility]

Okay, Tony, I'll take this challenge! I DO believe that my MLM company is one of the best. And don't laugh when you see what I sell, because believe me there are PLENTY of men doing very well in this company.

The company is Mia Bella Scentsations and we sell gourmet candles and bath and body products.

They've been in business since 2002 and have grown almost exponentially each year since. They're debt-free and have a fantastic commission plan, with monthly cash contests and even a car bonus.

Feel free to check them out and give them your 15 point litmus test. I don't think you'll find them lacking.

I can't post the URL of my company site because I don't have enough posts yet, but if you want to check it out, go to the candle site in my sig, then click on the Shop Online tab in the nav bar. Any link on that page will take you to my company site.

Happy hunting!

Debbie

[David Frey]

Tony,

We may or may not be a good fit for you. But it might be worth a conversation.

I'll like your style.

You can find out a little bit more about me at MarketingBestPractices dotcom.

If you email me at David at MarketingBestPractices dotcom I'll email you my private
cell phone number and we can chat for a few minutes.

All the best.

David

[fred67]

Strange that the most 'aggressive' opponent to MLM should write this;
Here's the one stat you and anyone else interested in mlm should be aware of...

- MLM can not be fixed.

A - It doesn't need fixing - it's perfect as it is:-)

- Only 1 per 1,000 people (if that) make any money with mlm and 90% of them are the owners of the program that set the scam in motion in the first place.

A - Statistics drawn out of the air from 'Urban Myths' about MLM - can we all be directed to the source of these statistics please so that we can all have a jolly good laugh as well :-)

Maybe he's just pretending after all just to get some much needed exposure to his own business :-)

Pete.

[worksmart07]

Here's my take on MLM and the other network marketing businesses out there. I have joined 2 of these companies in the past. The first didn't make me any money. Well I did make some retail money, but that was all offset by the high end cost of the prodcuts, membership and starter kits etc..

I actually got a few commision checks from the 2nd company, but they were few and far between. I think despite what they preach at their seminars and group meetings or whatever they call it, they're main business revolves around the business promotion and not the products. I was never able to build up a network of downlines which they so often promised I was able to.

IMO, it takes a "special" kind of person to be successful in MLM. Someone with a huge circle of influence because it all comes down to building networks, if you want the big bucks and thats where a lot of people fail in this type of business. Like someone pointed out earlier, 90%+ people fail in these types of ventures. If you can't get your networks going (building), you will just be earning retail commision - no commisions.

Anyway thats my little rant, take it for what its worth.

Des

[Notarealdoctor]

I've been working on MLM for about 5 years now, and the one proponent that always holds true is that if you put in a part time effort, you'll make part-time money. Currently I'm working with a company that markets water purifiers and the main part of what I do is give away water. The machine sells itself, but it's not cheap. The bottom line is the part-timers have to work hard to become full time in the business to reap the true success of MLM. But the one truth about MLM is that it's easy to recruit people part time because they are normally looking to supplement their income, not replace it.

[fred67]

Because I don't want to abuse this forum, all I will say to those of you who want to get a REAL insight into MLM; Google 'Randy Gage'. At present he's giving away his 'MLM Manifesto' from his site. It's an excellent read for ALL Business people & Entrepreneurs alike and will settle a few anxious minds.

That's all :-)

Pete.

[cypherslock]

Hey Pete. I went to the site an dhave signed up for his rants. But nowhere did I see his Manifesto. Not even in the store. Can you provide a link or the manifesto itself? It sounds like a great read.....please?

[Paulo]

Well you can find it http://networkmarketingtimes.com/mlm-manifesto

[HervinBalfour]

Originally Posted by bgmacaw

Let me inject a more negative view of MLM's. I've been involved with a few of them over the years, including some of the big names that begin with 'A', 'H', 'M' and 'P'. I've found them to be complete and total ripoffs that take advantage of well-meaning, business naive, financially desperate people.

They destroy relationships with friends and business/church/community associates.

They cause marital strife and conflict and even divorce.

They're more conducive to developing crushing debt and financial problems than providing an income, much less financial freedom level income.

They rarely sell worthwhile products and even when they're worthwhile they're dreadfully overpriced as compared to competing products.

They make unrealistic promises as to income and potential.

New recruits are typically encouraged to "fake it until the make it" to sell the opportunity.

The business model is centered around taking advantage of people, "churn and burn" recruits.

If anyone asks me if they should get involved in a MLM I paraphrase Marty the blackjack dealer from Vegas Vacation: "Here's an idea: Why don't you give me half the money your were gonna spend on joining a MLM, then we'll go out back, I'll kick you in the nuts, and we'll call it a day!"

That's funny. That has never been my experience in MLM. I am a member of an MLM/Network Marketing Company that also begins with an "A" and if anything they have been highly supportive of my goals and helped me move up rather quickly.

The only people who make complaints such as the ones you made about MLM are usually people who 1) had a weak work ethic, 2) weren't successful in the company and are transferring blame to the company/product instead of themselves and 3) didn't follow the "blueprint" for success as outlined by the company meaning DUPLICATE don't INNOVATE.

Now, my ex-girlfriend used to complain constantly about the hours I spent away from her and the lack of money I was bringing in. One day I got a comission check for $15 and she hit the roof! In fact, she almost left me until.......

A HUGE commission check appeared in my mailbox and we both were gasping for air out of excitement then she was a believer. We must have jumped around the house for 30 minutes. Rumplestilskin didn't have jack on us that day.

For me, I got so sick and tired of not being successful, people telling me I was involved in a scam and blah blah blah that I went into overdrive and stopped being lazy, scared of people saying no and I just freaking did it.

When people start DOING THE WORK results will appear and the problems you listed don't/won't occur.

I agree that some companies offer products that are plain ol' bs. I don't push lotions, potions, pills and herbs. I chose a company and a product that provides something people need and feel they can't be without. I have also heard that some companies make financial promises that aren't true. However I can honestly say that I am blessed to not have experienced that in any way, shape form or fashion.

But what I can say is that most people who scream scam or bash MLM's didn't do what they were supposed to do to make it work. If I join a company and within that company there are people hitting the highest pay levels in the company and I didn't hit those levels maybe I would have to look at myself in the mirror and ask myself if I am the problem because obviously that system is working for someone else.

[bgmacaw]

Originally Posted by HervinBalfour

The only people who make complaints such as the ones you made about MLM are usually people who 1) had a weak work ethic, 2) weren't successful in the company and are transferring blame to the company/product instead of themselves and 3) didn't follow the "blueprint" for success as outlined by the company meaning DUPLICATE don't INNOVATE.

IE, blame the person who's been lied to and ripped off, not the one who tricked them. A tactic any decent con artist or cult guru knows quite well.

[HervinBalfour]

Originally Posted by bgmacaw

IE, blame the person who's been lied to and ripped off, not the one who tricked them. A tactic any decent con artist or cult guru knows quite well.

Yeah, I'm sure you just busted your behind to be successful in your company.

Funny, you say that it's a "tactic" when 99% of the people who scream that scam bs didnt do jack to advance their business. They sat around and expected others to make them successful. I realized early on in the game that success isn't something born outside of yourself.

What was your work ethic? Did you bust your ass to become successful or did you give up at the first signs of road blocks? I made a two-five year committment to my company what was yours? Did you duplicate what you were taught or did you deviate and do your own thing? Were you expecting to get 5-figure checks in a few months or did you go in understanding that residual income is not get rich quick? Did you follow the advice and coaching of your SUCCESSFUL upline leaders or did you blame them and the company for your lack of success?

See if you didn't bust your ass and didn't have the desire or passion to build your business then I don't really want to here a damn thing from anyone about MLM being a scam. I read articles all the time online about my company being a scam but I laugh because I'm looking at my upline leader who is making six-figures a month. And it shows. But he busted his butt to get to where he is.

So I guess I'm a part of the "guru cult" that you were referring to but I know one thing. I'm doing very well in my MLM opportunity. But I guess I'm being scammed.

It's always the individuals who did nothing or who were kicked out of their company who swear up and down MLM is a scam.

[HervinBalfour]

Someone mentioned that people just sign up for a company because a friend brought them to a meeting or house meeting. And I think it's safe to assume that most of us who joined a network marketing company didn't do any research on the company when we joined. We were excited by the presenter and we jumped in head first.

But I also believe in stability. No one could get me to join a new start up company in pre-launch because of what is happening in MLM/Network marketing. I.e., Investers who have NO experience in the industry who are looking to make a quick buck so they start up a company.

These individuals know they aren't going to be around for the long haul and so they close their doors after 5-7 years after they've made money off of their reps. Then they wash, rince and repeat.

I joined my company because of their history (they've been around 16 years), personally knowing other members of the company who have had GREAT success and the product and compensation plan were the icing on the cake.

Again, I know that there are scammers out there but word gets around in this industry. If a company has been holding it down successfully for over a decade I doubt very seriously that the problem would be with the company.

[fred67]

Originally Posted by cypherslock

Hey Pete. I went to the site an dhave signed up for his rants. But nowhere did I see his Manifesto. Not even in the store. Can you provide a link or the manifesto itself? It sounds like a great read.....please?

Somebody else said that. I don't know what's happened.
You can DM me an E-mail address I can send the PDF to if you like.

Pete.

[Boost-Your-Income.co.uk]

Having been a moderately successful Herbalife Distributor for a couple of years now, my upline recommended Lifepath Unlimited and I must say that I have been well impressed with both their entry level product and the compensation plan to boot!

High earnings are achievable in a relatively short time due to the fact that each sale gives you $1000 pure profit, and their back office offering is second to none, with full autoresponders, full webmail functionality and a cracking set of tools the likes of which I have not seen before tbh.

Certainly worth a try I thought, and I have not been dissapointed - the best thing about it for me was the fact that you get a 56 day, no questions asked money back guarantee if it doesn't work out for you, but it did, so there you go...proof of the pudding is in the eating eh ;-)

If this have wet your appetite, then please visit my website or just get in touch - i'm always happy to help.

Good luck!

Phil

[MarQueteer]

Originally Posted by fred67

For those who are absolutely convinced that MLM is just a scam - take a look at the business you're in - the business you work for even. Every business on the planet 'depends' on referrals for new business - If a business doesn't expand, it dies - FACT!

Many businesses pay good money to advertise said business - ethical business building - and the cost of the advertising is naturally passed 'forward' to the end customer - That's OK then?

Internet marketers usually PAY for leads one way or another - either with their 'time' - or with their hard cash for PPC leads etc - the cost is passed 'forward' to their customers - That's OK then?

MLM only works if you recruit alot of people, it's a pyramid sheme (although often disguised pretty well) totally different from general affiliate marketing or 1-2 levels of referrals.

It's based on selling people the dream that they can make alot of money without having a college degree or money to invest, in order to make them sell stuff while those who understand the system focus on building downlines.

So, MLM isn't about selling products, advertising services or similar, it's about mass recruiting new members to the system.

There aren't equal chances, it's not possible for those down on the lowest level to ever reach the top if they didn't participate from the beginning and basic maths can easily proof this fact. It's not because they are lazy or doing anything wrong!

Let's say you have 5 levels: 10 people on the top lvl1, 100 lvl2, 1000 lvl3, 10.000 lvl4, 100.000 lvl5. Let's see, how big would the system be with those poor 100k at the bottom becoming lvl1 with similar income like those now on lvl1:

10 x Z = 100.000
Z = 10.000
100.000 x 10.000 = 1.000.000.000

So, basically the system would have to grow from 100k to a whopping 1 billion members to fulfil the promises made to those at lvl5. Now imagine that many systems are by far deeper than 5 levels and have a worse ratio than 1:10 from level to level. You quickly need more than the whole population of China...

[Tsnyder]

Originally Posted by MarQueteer

MLM only works if you recruit alot of people, it's a pyramid sheme (although often disguised pretty well) totally different from general affiliate marketing or 1-2 levels of referrals.

It's based on selling people the dream that they can make alot of money without having a college degree or money to invest, in order to make them sell stuff while those who understand the system focus on building downlines.

So, MLM isn't about selling products, advertising services or similar, it's about mass recruiting new members to the system.

There aren't equal chances, it's not possible for those down on the lowest level to ever reach the top if they didn't participate from the beginning and basic maths can easily proof this fact. It's not because they are lazy or doing anything wrong!

Let's say you have 5 levels: 10 people on the top lvl1, 100 lvl2, 1000 lvl3, 10.000 lvl4, 100.000 lvl5. Let's see, how big would the system be with those poor 100k at the bottom becoming lvl1 with similar income like those now on lvl1:

10 x Z = 100.000
Z = 10.000
100.000 x 10.000 = 1.000.000.000

So, basically the system would have to grow from 100k to a whopping 1 billion members to fulfil the promises made to those at lvl5. Now imagine that many systems are by far deeper than 5 levels and have a worse ratio than 1:10 from level to level. You quickly need more than the whole population of China...

You clearly have no idea what you're talking about and no understanding
of how MLM organizations are actually built.

Your 'maths' are based on a faulty assumption. I can name several
companies whose top earners didn't join anywhere near the beginning.

For example... the #1 earner in PrePaid Legal Services joined when
the company was more than 20 years old.

People who tell you that success in MLM depends on recruiting an army
of people also don't know what they're talking about. The vast majority
of top income earners I know personally have recruited less than 20 people.

To get a free report (no opt-in required) on the myths of MLM go to...

http://www.mlmmyths.info


Tsnyder

[Affiliate Inventor]

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

David makes some very good points.

I am actually involved in several MLM companies but only because they
offer real products with real solutions to problems.

I will never join an MLM program that is nothing more than just get people
to sign up under you with no real product.

As with any other business, it involves 2 basic things.

1. Promotion
2. Building relationships.

You need to run a professional operation or you won't succeed.

I think Steve said it well. There are a lot of MLMs that make their money not from the products they sell, but from signup fees from the members they recruit. I don't have any intention to join any MLMs, but if I ever did, it would have to be one that offers quality products and that offers good paying commissions that aren't dependent upon how many people I bring into the company.

[TLTheLiberator]

Not if you want to make money with it.

99% of people that never make any money on the net are involved with mlm or some other type of recruiting people scheme.

But...

You may be able to make good money with mlm provided...

- you already have a IM list that's ready to listen to your recommendation
- you have deep pockets and patience to withstand the time needed to build

- you don't really care that others under you won't make any money

As easy as it sounds, the model is flawed online as it is offline and it's the graveyard of online marketers.

Just my opinion!

TL

ps. Please acknowledge that you've been warned.

[MarQueteer]

Originally Posted by Tsnyder

You clearly have no idea what you're talking about and no understanding
of how MLM organizations are actually built.

Your 'maths' are based on a faulty assumption. I can name several
companies whose top earners didn't join anywhere near the beginning.

People who tell you that success in MLM depends on recruiting an army
of people also don't know what they're talking about. The vast majority
of top income earners I know personally have recruited less than 20 people.

Hehe, you learned your lessons well!

1. Don't discuss facts, tell everybody that I don't have a clue and no understanding. The system is always right, people who think it's a scam just don't understand it correctly.

2. Don't do a different calculation, don't proof me wrong, just tell everybody I'm wrong. What assumptions are faulty and in which way exactly?

Nice example of how MLM psychology works. People who fail to climb the upper ranks or criticize the system don't understand it, aren't motivated, don't follow the blueprints. I didn't expect any different reaction.

[MarQueteer]

Originally Posted by Tsnyder

For example... the #1 earner in PrePaid Legal Services joined when
the company was more than 20 years old.

Ok, but it still means he built several downlines that grew till he had an army of people below him and outgrew the founders downlines...it means either founder downlines broke away for some reason or they didn't pay enough attention to grow each downline at the same speed. If you do it right, noone can ever kick you from the top.

Originally Posted by Tsnyder

People who tell you that success in MLM depends on recruiting an army
of people also don't know what they're talking about. The vast majority
of top income earners I know personally have recruited less than 20 people..

Sure, but again, they wouldn't be the top earners if these 20 or less people below them wouldn't have the biggest downlines in the system.

[Raydal]

Traditionally, the WF has not been too friendly to MLM, but some of my most
successful clients have been people in the network marketing industry.

The trick is that most people don't use Internet market strategies and apply
them to their MLM business. But those who do have done very well.

I know for a fact.

-Ray Edwards

[Mr. Armsey]

If you utilize the Internet for all it has to offer, you can succeed in MLM. You can generate a huge list of contacts that know you and respect your opinion. Once you've given of yourself, then you will be rewarded.
Good luck in all of your endevors.

[Tsnyder]

Originally Posted by MarQueteer

Hehe, you learned your lessons well!

Whatever lessons I've learned were learned through more than
three decades of actual experience... not positing theories on internet
forums.

1. Don't discuss facts, tell everybody that I don't have a clue and no understanding. The system is always right, people who think it's a scam just don't understand it correctly.

I'd be happy to discuss actual facts... you didn't offer any in your post.
Your theories and beliefs are nothing more than your own untested opinions.

2. Don't do a different calculation, don't proof me wrong, just tell everybody I'm wrong. What assumptions are faulty and in which way exactly?

There is no alternate calculation to be done. Your model assumes that
each level of participation multiplies the same as those before. That's why
I said you obviously have no clue how an organization is really built.

The organizational chart of an individual MLM rep would more resemble a
diamond shape than a pyramid.

Nice example of how MLM psychology works. People who fail to climb the upper ranks or criticize the system don't understand it, aren't motivated, don't follow the blueprints. I didn't expect any different reaction.

You shouldn't expect any different response because what you just wrote is
true to a large degree... just as it is with the vast majority of those not earning
money with internet marketing of their own, or other's, products.

As with any endeavor those who understand how a business operates, are
motivated to learn the skills necessary for success and follow the blueprint of
those who have achieved success before them have a much greater likelihood
of succeeding.

Those who don't understand, aren't motivated, refuse to follow established
procedures that lead to success... and take advice on forums from people who,
themselves, have never achieved success with that business model... have very
little chance of succeeding.

Tsnyder

[Tsnyder]

Originally Posted by MarQueteer

Ok, but it still means he built several downlines that grew till he had an army of people below him and outgrew the founders downlines...it means either founder downlines broke away for some reason or they didn't pay enough attention to grow each downline at the same speed. If you do it right, noone can ever kick you from the top.

Nobody kicks anyone from the top of anything. Those who ascend to the
top do so because they earn it.

Sure, but again, they wouldn't be the top earners if these 20 or less people below them wouldn't have the biggest downlines in the system.

That's kind of a "duh" moment, don't you think? The point is they didn't
have to recruit an army of people themselves. They understand the principle
and power of duplication and leverage.... much like an employer in any business.

Tsnyder

[Tsnyder]

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

Not if you want to make money with it.

99% of people that never make any money on the net are involved with mlm or some other type of recruiting people scheme.

I'd love to see an actual source for that ridiculous statistic...

There are more than 100,000 members of the Warrior Forum. The vast majority
of them have no connection whatsoever to MLM... if it were possible to verify
numbers I'd be willing to bet there aren't 200 members of this forum who earned
more than $50,000 last year.

The point is that the % of people who are successful at anything is very small.

Tsnyder

[TJ Kazunga]

PHEW. This is boriiiing... reminds me of the myth about serious theologians arguing about how many angels can fit on the point of a needle... pointless in other words.

Why do I say this? Because this ain't a discussion, it's become a thread to STATE MY BELIEFS. I'm right, you're stupid ad nauseum...

Look, either you you will try mlm or not. either you will fail or you will succeed. Chances are you will fail coz those tend to be the stats.

Just for the record, mlm is in no way similar to affiliate marketing. Totally different models, expectations etc.

[Tsnyder]

I love a good scolding... just curious... what is a discussion
if not an interactive statement of beliefs and opinions?

Sure... it would be nice if some actual facts were involved
but I've learned to deal with that... lol

Tsnyder

P.S. If you're bored you can always go look over someone's
shoulder as they make $100 in 24 hours...

[TLTheLiberator]

Originally Posted by cypherslock

TL is it possible to say something positive? You don't agree with this or that model, that's fine. But stop trying to tear it down. It is the same as those threads we've seen that say article marketing sucks or CPA or PPC sucks. They all WORK for the RIGHT person.

Why should I when I sincerely believe it won't help vast majority of people who get involved with it?

Article marketing, cpa and ppc do work if applied right and are simply methods of generating traffic.

But mlm is an income model that does not work for too many people.

When you look back at these times and all the people that never made any money online - 99% of them will be mlm'ers.

This is the same advice I's give to a family member or a friend.

Anyone reading this, please acknowledge that you have been warned.

TL

[TLTheLiberator]

Originally Posted by fred67

Strange that the most 'aggressive' opponent to MLM should write this;
Here's the one stat you and anyone else interested in mlm should be aware of...

- MLM can not be fixed.

A - It doesn't need fixing - it's perfect as it is:-)

- Only 1 per 1,000 people (if that) make any money with mlm and 90% of them are the owners of the program that set the scam in motion in the first place.

A - Statistics drawn out of the air from 'Urban Myths' about MLM - can we all be directed to the source of these statistics please so that we can all have a jolly good laugh as well :-)

Maybe he's just pretending after all just to get some much needed exposure to his own business :-)

Pete.

I have a right to my opinion right?

I'm simply trying to warn decent people to beware and once again I say...

"please acknowledge that you've been warned".

TL

[Tsnyder]

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

I have a right to my opinion right?

TL

Absolutely... you have the right to be wrong...

Tsnyder

[TLTheLiberator]

Originally Posted by Tsnyder

I'd love to see an actual source for that ridiculous statistic...

There are more than 100,000 members of the Warrior Forum. The vast majority
of them have no connection whatsoever to MLM... if it were possible to verify
numbers I'd be willing to bet there aren't 200 members of this forum who earned
more than $50,000 last year.

The point is that the % of people who are successful at anything is very small.

Tsnyder

And it's even smaller when you talk about mlm.

That may be true about the members of this forum but its' not because of the small % of people that are successful at anything syndrome you mentioned above.

There are dozens of reasons most of them are not making 50k per year.

All you have to do is look over the posts and comments by newbies and the non earning veterans alike to discover the many reasons why.

In a nutshell, it's...

- Lack of a clear plan

and...

- Lack of action on the plan

But every member of this forum can make good money cause there's plenty of room for another 100k savvy online NICHE marketers to make good money.

Why??

- There are 50k plus niches to operate in:

- There are numerous proven income models:

- There are numerous proven methods to get prospects to our offers:

But...

The same can not be said for the MLM'er.


- You only operating in one niche:

And...

- 90% of your intended prospects at biz op hangouts are not really interested in your offer because they have their own offer.

- So you're fighting with everyone for that 10% of possible prospects - newbies and those looking for another "program". ( since the first didn't work out )

- Ok, you got a couple of so-called income plans variations:


You know and I know that only a very small portion will make that 50k and the rest may make a couple bucks per month or nothing at all.

Example, if all 100k members of this forum dived into the same mlm company - only a 1,000 or so can make decent money just because of the income structure of the model.

A very few at the top supported by the many at the bottom.

The story of mlm and the recruiting people model.

Anyone reading this please acknowledge you've been warned.

TL

PS. I'm finished and I'll try not to respond to another mlm related post.

If folks want to get into mlm - good luck to them.

[Tsnyder]

TL...

The problem with your argument is that it contains a smidgeon
of truth mixed with liberal amounts of nonsense...

The #1 reason people aren't successful at anything is lack of skills.

To say that business failure afflicts one particular model more than
another is to be ignorant of business, in general.

The truth is that the vast majority of those people you say are
failures are folks who did very little to contribute to their own
success... no different than anything else.

I'm not sure what a bizop hangout is but if people are hanging
there hoping to build a business they will surely fail. People who
understand the business and learn the skills don't look to those
places to build their business.

Tsnyder

[cypherslock]

There are several people that I know and have spoken with that do mega amounts in Network Marketing. Interestingly, when I asked them how come, they said it is because they focus on helping other people get the skills to achieve their dreams and then they just DO IT. If the business model and products strike a chord with you and you have a good mentor and do the work, you can succeed. It is the person, not the company and not the business model that solely determines how high they go. Attitude really does determine altitude.

[fred67]

It seems TSnyder has kept his integrity throughout this discussion (somehow).
It seems TLTheLiberator is anything 'but' a liberator.
Does he not realise a discussion can have integrity on both sides if you believe you're right?
(After all, everyone who gets into a discussion about 'anything' believes at first that they are right).

To go on the defensive and react with just 'negativity' seems to me to be counterproductive and lacking in moral integrity.

Just a thought :-)

Pete.

[co13]

hey guys you better first try to find out more on scam.com board ))

cheers
me

[Kevin Riley]

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

Anyone reading this please acknowledge you've been warned.

Yes! OK! We've been warned. Thank you for that.

I'm sure you were burned once. Maybe it wasn't even your fault. But most people I see yelling "Scam!" are those who never really applied themselves and therefore failed.

MLM, IM, DM, or any other kind of marketing is not for everybody. In fact, doing any kind of business is not for everybody.

Nobody hands you anything on a silver platter. You actually have to work for it. MLM is a great business model for distributing products. It's the shysters who try to tell you that you can sit back, do nothing, and make money with MLM that have put a black mark on it.

[MarQueteer]

Originally Posted by Tsnyder

Nobody kicks anyone from the top of anything. Those who ascend to the
top do so because they earn it.

Right, my fault, there isn't competition in MLM, it's just people who earn and deserve ascending to higher spheres because of their godlike skills.

Originally Posted by Tsnyder

That's kind of a "duh" moment, don't you think? The point is they didn't
have to recruit an army of people themselves. They understand the principle
and power of duplication and leverage.... much like an employer in any business.

No employer tells his employees: "Bring your mom, your sister and your friends, sell them our stuff and make them work for you, let them recruit their friends and family to sell our stuff and recruit as well." That's, btw, the reason why many MLMers fail. It's not the lack of skills, it's certain moral values.

[Party Plan Pat]

Originally Posted by David Frey

Blase,

This is David Frey. It's great to hear from you. You
and I go way back.

Not only am I proponent of MLM, I believe it's one of
the best and fastest ways available today to start a
legitimate home based business.

But you need to pick a solid company that has a product
that resonates with you, that you can fall in love
with. It's hard to successfully sell something that you
don't deeply believe in.

Here's why I believe in multi level marketing.

1. MLM is nothing more than affiliate marketing on
steroids. If you're an internet marketer, you have
probably done some form of affiliate marketing. Multi
level marketing simply has more than levels than a two-
tier affiliate program.

2. Multilevel marketing offers true leverage. You can
benefit from the sales and product usage of people many
levels below you with no effort on your part. You work
hard to create your first level (much like an IM
affiliate program) and then train them to duplicate
your success. With time, you'll be making money from
people that you've never met. That's leverage.

3. MLM companies usually provide very simple marketing
systems. You don't have to master web development,
hosting, domains, autoresponders, video editing,
copywriting etc. like you do in IM. You simply tell
people about your product and teach them to do the same
thing. Very simple.

4. Multilevel marketing is based off of good ole
referral marketing (sharing products and service
recommendations with your friends). Referral marketing
is the world's most effective marketing method. Period.
And that's all MLM really is.

5. A lot of MLM companies go under. This is true. But
I've seen just as many internet marketing products,
services, and companies go down as well. And I've seen
just as many scams in the internet marketing industry
as I have in the MLM industry. (In fact, a LOT more!)

6. And you say that the average person doesn't make
much money in MLM. Uhhh, the average person doesn't
make much money in internet marketing either. I believe
the percentage that make money (or don't make money)
in MLM versus internet marketing is about the same. And
it has nothing to do with it being a scam. It has everything
to do with people's work habits, commitment and drive
to succeed.

7. The only reason a person doesn't like MLM is because
(1) they haven't found a product that truly resonates
with them and (2) you haven't made a lot of money in
MLM. When those two things happen, you'll love it.

One of the businesses that I run is a distributorship
in an MLM company. I've done it for 3 years. My income
this month from that distributorship is about 4 times
what I used to make as a Senior Vice President in a
$500 Million dollar company. And it's PASSIVE
RESIDUAL!. I vacationed nearly this entire month with
my family.

The income from my MLM distributorship allowed me to
spend the entire summer in Costa Rica with my little
family (working only 2 hours a day).

Now you might say, "Yes, but you are a great marketer.
Most people can't duplicate your skills."

The # 1 guy in my MLM company doesn't know squat about
marketing. Nothing. But he is a great networker. That
guy made more last month than I made in an entire year
as a well paid executive in the corporate world (I'm
the # 2 earner in the company).

So, if you pick the right company that has a great
product (i.e. a product that could stand on it's own in
the marketplace WITHOUT the MLM marketing model
attached to it) and the right sponsor (someone who's
been there and done it) and you have the drive and
tenacity to be successful (like you have to have in any
venture that you start), then you can do extremely well
in MLM.

David Frey

Indeed David you are right! I remember I thoroughly enjoyed used your send out card marketing system! I am still hooked on send out cards. I wouldn't say MLM is back in style, it is more like a classical piece be clothing, jewelry, music, always in fashion amid the ebb and flow of trends!

I look at my wardrobe for example and I glad I kept my piece cause they still keep coming back. Besides MLM, direct sales, home parties, these are the things that flourish in so called down economies because poeple need that sense of community that MLM offers!

Back in style It never was out of style!

[TLTheLiberator]

Originally Posted by fred67

It seems TSnyder has kept his integrity throughout this discussion (somehow).
It seems TLTheLiberator is anything 'but' a liberator.
Does he not realise a discussion can have integrity on both sides if you believe you're right?
(After all, everyone who gets into a discussion about 'anything' believes at first that they are right).

To go on the defensive and react with just 'negativity' seems to me to be counterproductive and lacking in moral integrity.

Just a thought :-)

Pete.

FYI:

I never challenged anyone's integrity.

And there was nothing defensive about my comments.

And if the truth ( as I see it ) is negative in your eyes, big whoop.

I don't know what you're talking about me lacking in moral integrity.

My arguments are quite strong and the evidence is quite clear.

I never retreated to name calling to conceal a weak argument as you and others have.

TL

[MichaelPaul]

Well I don't think MLM really died or anything, but it looks to be picking up some good speed since Web Prosperity came onto the seen.

This company may be one to consider being a part of... They have a real solid foundation I think... I've been keeping a close watch on it, its still to early to tell I think...

Just in case you didn't know David D'Arcangelo is heading it up and is also the owner of another big company "GET RESPONSE".

[Tsnyder]

Originally Posted by MarQueteer

No employer tells his employees: "Bring your mom, your sister and your friends, sell them our stuff and make them work for you, let them recruit their friends and family to sell our stuff and recruit as well."

Of course not... that's not the point. But, I'm not surprised you don't
understand the analogy as it applies to the principle and power of duplication
and leverage.

Tsnyder

[willies]

MLM is a great way to make money if you really know the ropes.

I read about somebody who lots of money from MLM and I believe it is one of the fastest ways of making huge money on the internet, especially, like I said, if you know the ropes.

One important to note is that you should join a fast moving team. This way, you can benefit from the spillover effect of your uplines. However, this is not to encourage laziness because you will make money for everyone you introduce into the program.

I believe if you join a program that has no real products or services to offer, you are probably joining a matrix program which eventually may crumble.

All in all, it is still a great way of making money, even though it seems a little bit outdated.

[gopaldev]

With the economy in tatters more people seem to be giving network marketing a closer look. It's potential to provide long-term residual income long after one's initial investment of time, energy, and money by leveraging the efforts of others definitely seems attractive when compared to being an hourly wage/salaried employee of someone else. Job security is become even more of a rarity and being an entrepreneur is a great way to work towards both financial and personal freedom.

Combining MLM's potential for exponential growth with the limitless possibilities of Internet marketing is extremely important because it will expose countless people to one's business and avoid having one to rely solely on family, friends, and referrals who usually end up being the harshest critics. Most network marketers quit before giving themselves the chance to see results and using the web will give everyone a leg up

This approach is on the rise and is a new way of introducing business-minded people to both online businesses but approaching an established business model like MLM in a very cutting edge way in the 21st century. This can also help irradicate the stereotype of cult-like home meetings and useless hype. Cheers!

[fred67]

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

FYI:

I never challenged anyone's integrity.

And there was nothing defensive about my comments.

And if the truth ( as I see it ) is negative in your eyes, big whoop.

I don't know what you're talking about me lacking in moral integrity.

My arguments are quite strong and the evidence is quite clear.

I never retreated to name calling to conceal a weak argument as you and others have.

TL

I would suggest you Re-Read this whole thread, and in particular - your own comments re- strong evidence etc.

Whether you apologise or not is up to you :-)

Have a nice day though - Pete :-)