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13 years ago

I've been doing that for a long time and I swear by it. I think it's crucial following up with those prospects who are on the verge of swinging the credit card.

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Tiffan Meloney

13 years ago

I don't think you should make the optin's madatory. Make it optional and just give some somethign they are interested in. Then on the bottom you can have a link that says I dont want this special offer or something.

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JanG

13 years ago

The strategy works :-)
However, three opt-ins really is too much. You could create segments and move your subscribers to the buyers segment automatically once they visit the download page.

I don't think it will lower conversions, because when paying with PayPal, they also have to enter their email address, so they will also enter their email address into your opt-in form. Maybe you can find a way to prepopulate fields in the Clickbank order form, I don't know if that's possible.

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Stefan Pylarinos

13 years ago

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myob 13 years ago

I would avoid like the plague Clickbank vendor sales pages with an opt-in or any other leakage for that exact reason - it detracts from this marketing method and dilutes your lists.
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Jaymark

13 years ago

That sounds like a great way to go and I can certainly see why Frank Kern does so well. It's a great way to increase your mailing list and segregate it by the type of buyer or prospect it is. As my business builds, this will definately be an option to consider. Thanks for bringing it to our attention.

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celente

13 years ago

Matt Bacak does this, and it follows up with those that at the last minute decided not to push the buy button.

He normally sends you a few emails as if it is a personal one.

Very smart, as the customers is half warm. Have mroe chance of the sale, then when you make the sale they go on a different list.

A list of people is good, but a list of buyers....PRICELESS! :-)

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Rich Struck

13 years ago

Once somebody pays they shouldn't have to opt in again. It's kind of scummy.

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Stefan Pylarinos

13 years ago

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Frank Donovan

13 years ago

Originally Posted by LifestyleTrans

The ones that DO BUY your product, after they order they are re-directed to a page that says "Enter your name and e-mail here to receive your product and bonuses". So you have them OPT-IN again in a new list, and this is your CUSTOMERS list.

If the customers haven't been told before they purchase that they'd be required to opt in to receive the product, this is a very risky tactic.

Not only will you annoy a lot of purchasers and probably increase your refund rate - you'll also likely have your PayPal account closed.

I'm guessing that the marketers who use this tactic have their own merchant accounts (or use a PayPal alternative).

Frank

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myob 13 years ago

Paypal does allow this if the presell page specifically mentions the pre-delivery opt-in. It is an effective method in a long-term sales funnel to qualify lists for more targeted high-end sales. This process may be repeated several times into lists with incrementally higher priced product promotions.
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- Frank Donovan 13 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by LifestyleTrans
  
  I use Clickbank, not PayPal.
  
  There'll be others reading this thread who might think that tactic worth trying in their sales process, outside of CB.
  
  Originally Posted by myob
  
  Paypal does allow this if the presell page specifically mentions the pre-delivery optin.
  
  Which is why I said "If the customers haven't been told before they purchase..."
  
  Frank
  
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kellyburdes

13 years ago

The key thing you said in this entire post "I'm guessing"

Originally Posted by Frank Donovan

If the customers haven't been told before they purchase that they'd be required to opt in to receive the product, this is a very risky tactic.

Not only will you annoy a lot of purchasers and probably increase your refund rate - you'll also likely have your PayPal account closed.

I'm guessing that the marketers who use this tactic have their own merchant accounts (or use a PayPal alternative).

Frank

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Frank Donovan 13 years ago

Originally Posted by kellyburdes

The key thing you said in this entire post "I'm guessing"

Glad you liked it.

Notice that I was only guessing about which payment processors were being used - not about the tactic.

Frank
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Mohammed Hammad2

13 years ago

I've tried this method before and didn't see any decrease in conversions.

On the other side when I followed up with the people who didn't complete the purchase, I ended up making more money!

Just my 2 cents,
MidMido

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Mohammed Hammad2

13 years ago

Hey there,

You contacted me via PM, unfortunately I can't answer to PM just yet.

Still you can contact me via skype: mohamed.hammad.skype

Take Care

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sbucciarel

Banned 13 years ago

As a buyer, I don't want to opt in to anything to purchase it.
So here's what I do. If I really want the product, I go ahead and opt in. Get the purchase done. If it's a double opt in, I don't confirm. If it's not, I unsubscribe.

Most of the purchases I make are not going to be upgraded and therefore, I do not see any reason for me to be on your list. I'm on very few lists and I like it that way. I don't want an inbox full of new pitches every day.

I recently bought some PLR product that I wanted and ended up on a list. I was getting an email about every other day ... then finally 3 in one day. Of course I unsubscribed. This person was just offering one affiliate offer after another, none of which I am interested in. Just inbox clutter.

I'm probably not typical, so I know it doesn't matter what I like or not, but if I'm not really sold on the product, the opt in may just make me think twice and go away.

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Tsnyder

13 years ago

If you made me opt-in to a list in order to get
a product I just paid you for I would opt-in, get
my product, and refund you in a heartbeat.

That is total BS... I'm a huge fan of Kern's but if
he's advocating this I think he has his surfer hair
do firmly up his ass.

Not to mention the fact that Pay Pal will cancel
your account in an instant if they catch you doing
this with a PP account.

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Stefan Pylarinos

13 years ago

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Tsnyder

13 years ago

Originally Posted by LifestyleTrans

Frank Kern mentions it in the $6 book he recently sent out and says that it'd increase sales, because you get to set up a follow-up sequence with each list.

Also, my products aren't in the IM niche and are actually in the Remedy Niche.

I'm sure some people will unsubscribe or people like you would ask for a refund, but overall if it increases my sales, then it's obviously worth it. Gotta test it out though.

I'm not talking about asking for the opt-in prior to the sale.
That makes complete sense... it would be foolish not to.

I'm talking about making people opt-in in order to receive
their product AFTER they've already paid for it.

That's fraud, IMO, plain and simple.

Tsnyder

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Gary J Martin 13 years ago

Have you any idea how many people click the buy link and don't buy? Its very high. So collecting the info after clicking the buy button is crucial. So they can be then followed up with.

Also getting the buyers to opt onto the buyers list for that product segments them from people who didn't buy. So, both need to be used.

I wouldn't do the opt in squeeze, sales page squeeze, and then after purchase squeeze though. To many hoops too soon.
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CDarklock 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Tsnyder

That is total BS... I'm a huge fan of Kern's but if he's advocating this I think he has his surfer hair do firmly up his ass.

Frank Kern is advocating asking for people's opt-in frequently.

He is NOT advocating FORCED opt-in after payment.

Free stuff, opt-in first.

Paid stuff, opt-in first.

Here's your stuff, opt-in for more.

What is happening here is that people are lazy and stupid and don't really know what they're doing because they ask little questions in a lot of places, instead of getting the whole story from one person.

Q: "Do I need my prospect to opt-in again when I send him more free stuff? He's already on my list."

A: "Yes, make him opt-in again. That way you can put him on a different list that gets different promos."

Q: "I have different lists with different people on them that signed up to get freebies. Which one should I email this promo for my new paid product?"

A: "Email them all! Just write a new email for each list to target them more directly."

Q: "I have an opt-in form on my download page. How do I make sure they opt-in?"

A: "Don't put the form on your download page! Put it in front of your download page and don't let them download until they opt-in."

Now Frank Kern says "put opt-ins in all these different places."

So Joe Idiot puts opt-ins everywhere, adds the user to five lists, sends a different email to each list so the user gets five emails, and won't ever let him have anything without another opt-in.

But that's not what Frank said to do. Instead, Joe Idiot has mixed and matched the advice of four different people into a Bad Idea.

Similar case:

"I want to sell something online." -> "Get an MRR package."
"I don't know what niche to enter." -> "Forex makes big cash."
"I don't know how to get the money." -> "Use PayPal."

BZZZT. All forex offers sold through PayPal must be individually approved by PayPal's compliance department. Since this guy is using MRR, he's not even competent to speak with them about what it is. Chances are good this guy has now lost his PayPal account and just doesn't know it yet.

Lots of little questions to lots of different people do not ultimately give you one big answer without a LOT of additional research and clarification. This is why coaches and mentors are recommended: someone needs to know your entire business model, so you can get competent advice.
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- rts2271 13 years ago
  
  LOL
  
  LOL
  
  What kind of idiot would make someone type the same thing 3 times. Only in IM
  
  Do you know how bad that hurts conversion, yes this has been tested and Kern might be rich, wrong. If this worked Bestbuy and Walmart and everyone would do it. But they don't. Know why?
  
  They hire programmers and support staff. They make it so once the data is collected it does not need to be collected again. I can understand the first optin. Here's how I would make that system work.
  
  A optin collecting first name and email on the sales page. Salespage sets a unique cookie and a tracking tag.
  Optin page pushes the data to the cb sales form making it so that the firstname and email are populated, reducing the amount of typing a client does. If client continues to purchase they are forwarded to thank you page. thank you page reads cookie and marks sub as buyer. I know this works because I've sold and setup this system for alot of players. There's a certain tech group in IM that seems to follow my work around and copy it. I hope they are taking notes as they've been wanting this one for about a year. Now I've given it to everyone
  
  Thats from the vendor side. From the affiliate side its a bit trickier but the above situation could be modeled to work with affiliates.
  
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  CDarklock 13 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by rts2271
  
  once the data is collected it does not need to be collected again
  
  Permission is not data. Human beings cannot be cookied with a session key.
  
  Thanks
  
  Signature
  
  "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
  
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Brent Miller

13 years ago

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Stefan Pylarinos 13 years ago

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- myob 13 years ago
  
  That information is nearly a year out of date. Clickbank no longer allows email to be parsed.
  
  Thanks
  
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  Brent Miller 13 years ago
  
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  myob 13 years ago
  
  This worked out for you?
  
  Wow! Thanks for this Brent.
  
  Thanks
  
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WillR

13 years ago

Here's the way I do it...

1. Have the order process set up in steps. When they click on the order button they are taken to the page where they enter their email and name to 'Create their Account'. Obviously they are not really creating anything, they are just being added to your hot list.

2. They are then redirected to the Clickbank order form where they can purchase.

3. Those who purchase are then taken to your thank you page. On this page I have it set up so the email address they entered on Clickbank is automatically carried over and inserted into the email box. This is done through the amember membership software I use.

Above this email box it simply says... "Important, confirm your email address to receive future product updates...". Have the submit button say 'Confirm' instead of 'Submit'. This way they don't feel as though they are entering their email again. Once they click on the 'Confirm' button they are added to your buyers list and removed from the hot list. This buyers list is single optin because I know it is the email address they have just used to purchase with so there won't be any fake email addresses.

This is exactly how I have things set up on one of my sites and the huge majority (over 90%) of purchasers will click on the button and get added to the buyers list.

4. Follow up over the next few days with those hot leads that haven't yet purchased. Maybe offer them a special bonus or a discount.

Simple.

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tecHead

13 years ago

Brent introduced about the most elegant of ways; although WillR makes a good point, (albeit he's faking it).

You can do ALL of this programatically. The golden rule is to make the prospect work as little as possible during the sales process.

- pre-populate as many fields as you can; 1st, 2nd & 3rd party
- use all the APIs made available; both PayPal and ClickBank have them

There's NO NEED to ask someone to confirm their email address when all you have to do is just send them their download information via email and tell them how to WHITELIST you on the "thank you" page.

All subsequent emails.. just include an opt-out link; (which is mandatory as per CAUSE, anyway).

Sometimes IMer's just make things harder than they should be...

PLP,
tecHead

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WillR

13 years ago

Originally Posted by tecHead

although WillR makes a good point, (albeit he's faking it).

Am I missing something here...?

It's the exact process I have set up on one of my sites and it works like a charm.

I don't think you understand what we are talking about here. We are first putting them on a hot leads list and then when/if they purchase, they are removed from that list and added to a buyers list so we can follow up with them separately. To do this you will need to get them to click a button on the thankyou page - otherwise they will remain on your hot leads list and continue to receive all those emails targeted at people who have not yet purchased. At no point do I ask people to confirm their email address in their inbox because there is no need.

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tecHead

13 years ago

Originally Posted by WillR

Am I missing something here...?

Yes. The reference to your words that I'm making...

Originally Posted by WillR

to 'Create their Account'. Obviously they are not really creating anything, they are just being added to your hot list.

Thus my comment that you're faking it; because it would be much more wise to actually create that account.

Originally Posted by WillR

I don't think you understand what we are talking about here...

That's rather arrogant of you; I understand very well what you're talking about and do it myself; (with actual account creation); with every product/service I sell.

And NO you don't NEED them to CLICK anything. You already have their email information; just send them an email with the access to their purchase. By them clicking the link to obtain their purchase in that email.. they've just confirmed their email address.

By taking it even another step forward; you can programatically (like I said in the BEginning) move them from one list to another. Both aWeber & GetResponse have the mechanisms to do just that.

The "trigger", (you know, the one you're referring to on the thank you page that they HAVE TO click)... is them LANDING on the actual download page. They don't have to physically DO anything besides GO TO the page in order to "trigger" that movement.

You're on the right track... just not quite "there".

PLP,
tecHead

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WillR

13 years ago

Originally Posted by tecHead

Yes. The reference to your words that I'm making...

Thus my comment that you're faking it; because it would be much more wise to actually create that account.

That's rather arrogant of you; I understand very well what you're talking about and do it myself; (with actual account creation); with every product/service I sell.

And NO you don't NEED them to CLICK anything. You already have their email information; just send them an email with the access to their purchase. By them clicking the link to obtain their purchase in that email.. they've just confirmed their email address.

By taking it even another step forward; you can programatically (like I said in the BEginning) move them from one list to another. Both aWeber & GetResponse have the mechanisms to do just that.

The "trigger", (you know, the one you're referring to on the thank you page that they HAVE TO click)... is them LANDING on the actual download page. They don't have to physically DO anything besides GO TO the page in order to "trigger" that movement.

You're on the right track... just not quite "there".

PLP,
tecHead

Sorry,

I jumped the gun. I took your comment the wrong way. Apologies.

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tecHead 13 years ago

Originally Posted by WillR

Sorry,

I jumped the gun. I took your comment the wrong way. Apologies.

no worries, mate
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WillR

13 years ago

Originally Posted by tecHead

And NO you don't NEED them to CLICK anything. You already have their email information; just send them an email with the access to their purchase. By them clicking the link to obtain their purchase in that email.. they've just confirmed their email address.

I have their email information on ONE list and if I want to send them an email with their purchase information then I want this to be done from a new list - the buyers list. So I want them on this list before I send them the purchase information.

I don't use the upgraded aweber that allows you to embed tags into pages so this is the way I do it. As I say, I get over 90% of them on my second aweber buyers list and I have 100% of them on my amember email list so there are no dramas with this approach. Easy to setup and works.

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MatthewNeer

13 years ago

I believe that its a GREAT strategy and I do it on my product as well. There is NOTHING more valuable than a buyers list.

Just remember to be COOL to your list peeps. Sell them cool stuff that will actually help them. Dont go on a pitchfest. Thats a no no.

I dont see why you would do this any other way. Its brilliant and everyone should be doing it.

BTW, Frank has a new webinar wit Ryan Deiss tomorrow where he is gonna reveal all kinds of cool sh*t about these new 8 sneaky stealth strategies or something along those lines.

Will be tuned in for the goods. YEE!

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MattStrange

13 years ago

If you run a wordpress site and want the customer to have an account on your blog upon payment, you can use the wp_create_user function. With PayPal you can pass the email variable to the return url.

http://codex.wordpress.org/Function_...wp_create_user

This may help alongside the opt-in form

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christopher jon

13 years ago

Human beings cannot be cookied with a session key.

You might be surprised what can be accomplished with a lot of motivation and an fifth of jack.

If you made me opt-in to a list in order to get
a product I just paid you for I would opt-in, get
my product, and refund you in a heartbeat.

But aren't a lot of things we do as marketers and salesmen things we personally don't like but still use because they work?

For example: Popups, I absolutely hate them but they are effective and I'd be an idiot not to use them. Autoplay videos drive me nuts too. The list goes on and on and on.

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Dave3110

13 years ago

I will be using this strategy for my new product. A friend of mine has been doing this for some time and has been able to convert a reasonable amount of non-buyer to buyers. It's worth a punt...

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paul nicholls

13 years ago

thanks for the info

it sounds like a very good idea

it basically segments your list from complete freebie seekers to very interested prospects

and as you say the very interested prospects are on the verge of buying so with a little more persuassion they will be a customer

cheers

paul

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Dayne Dylan

Banned 13 years ago

Question...

I've got a product I'm going to be launching soon that is in the $200-$300 range, in the self-improvement niche.

I'm thinking of making a simple "squeeze" page, with an intro video and opt-in below it for more information. After that, they are sent to the main sales page.

So basically, they will need to opt-in on the main page to get to the sales page. This way I can follow up with them via email about the product, plus give them content. If they do order, they will be removed from that initial list, and put on a buyers list.

Does this sound like a solid way to go about it, or should I skip the initial opt-in for more information "squeeze" page?

Just curious.

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Shannon Herod

13 years ago

It all comes down to testing in the end. I have found outside of the "make money niche" this actually works very well. However, specifically inside of the "WSO make money niche" this does not work as effectively.

Elsewhere in the "make money niche" I have found that it depends on how strong the copy is whether or not this works. Also, I have found that you get a higher opt in percentage if you leave the price blind.

So, it comes down to testing and seeing what works the best.

Also, when it comes to having the customer opt into a different list is not needed. Every payment processor I know will automatically opt your customers into a customer list for you. You just need to make sure you're letting them know that they will be put on a customer list after they buy.

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