An Interesting Approach to Discouraging Serial Refunders

12 replies
I was doing some keyword research over christmas and I came across something I found interesting. I've been trying to find the URL again but alas, I can't.

Anyway, this guy was offering a digital product that I found interesting and he had the standard 60 day refund information we're used to except...

He stated that he would not accept orders from "repeat refunders" and that he subscribed to an international database that would be referenced to determine if you were on that list before shipping the order.

I'm sorry I don't remember the exact wording but it wasn't in your face or anything and was really professional looking.

I'm pretty sure such a database doesn't exist or someone here would have probably mentioned it by now. It would probably be a goldmine for some of you that are talented enough to program and maintain it and let others subscribe.

Even without such a database, this "warning" would be something to perfect and include in your sales material. My thinking is it would work sort of like the dummy surveilance cameras we used at the park in the summer. You never knew if they were real or not!

Steve
#approach #discouraging #interesting #refunders #serial
  • Profile picture of the author warriorkevin
    interesting find.

    I have seen something like that and I have heard of something like a list of serial refunders. BUt I do not remember if it was just an informal sharing of problem customers that many people had.

    k-
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  • Profile picture of the author write-stuff
    It's hogwash. No such "database" exists for public transactions.

    - Russ
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    • Profile picture of the author ddomains
      Actually, such a list does exist, but as far as I know the only businesses contributing data to it are large retail stores - it's why stores will always ask for ID when they take a product back. I don't think an analogous list exists for internet marketers, though I think Clickbank does keep track of rapid refunders and denies transactions after a certain point.
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  • Profile picture of the author James Schramko
    You can just ban emails and IP's from your shopping cart. It stops people from repeat buying anything from that cart. (I use DLGuard)
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    • Profile picture of the author ShayB
      Well, I don't know about a "serial refunder" list, but I do know that such a database exists for direct sales reps.

      If you have someone wanting to join your company or you want to order from this person, you can check the database and see if there are negative transactions. Numerous negative transactions or instances where a sales rep has taken money and not shipped goods would be a red flag.

      If one doesn't exist, it is easy enough to create one.
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  • Profile picture of the author George Wright
    As mentioned, ClickBank blocks serial refunders. (in red)

    So I guess if you sold through CB you could refer to "The Database"

    Some of these other rules are interesting. Is clickbank becoming more "seller friendly?" Some of the rules below sure make it seem so.

    -------------------------

    1. What is ClickBank's return policy?
    Our official return policy for all ClickBank products is as follows:
    ClickBank will, at its discretion, allow for the return or replacement of any defective product within 60 days from the date of purchase. For recurring billing products, returns for more than one payment may be provided if requested within the standard 60 day return period. After 60 days all sales are final.

    2. Do any ClickBank products have a different return policy?
    Our publishers are not permitted to make any guarantee that conflicts with our return policy. However, we have an enormous inventory of products and it can be difficult to monitor all of them all the time. If you find a product with any warranty that conflicts with our return policy, please bring it to our attention so that we can take corrective action.

    3. What is ClickBank's cancellation policy for recurring billing products?
    The customer may cancel their recurring billing subscription products at any time. Upon receipt of an installment cancellation request, ClickBank will encourage the completion of installment terms, but installments may be canceled at any time. A cancellation means that no future installments are charged to the customer's account. Canceling a recurring billing product does not generate a refund.

    4. What is the difference between a refund and a cancellation?
    If a customer requests a refund, the money for the requested transaction is refunded back to the customer. If the refund is for a recurring billing product, then the return policy allows for the most recent payment to be returned. Multiple payment returns can be provided as long as they are within the standard 60 day return period. A refund on a recurring billing product will also result in a cancellation.

    If customers request a cancellation for their recurring billing product no future rebills will be charged to their account. Keep in mind, a cancellation will not generate a refund - it will only stop any future rebills.
    5. How are customer inquiries handled?

    When a customer reaches us by phone or email, our first response is to offer technical support for the product. However, in some cases a product may be unsatisfactory to the customer for reasons completely beyond our control in which case a cancellation or a refund may be processed.
    Please Note: Refunds can only be credited back to the account used to make the original purchase. If the original account has been closed, the purchase is not eligible for refund.

    6. What about customers who try to abuse the return policy?
    Customers requesting serial or repeated returns will be blocked from making further purchases.

    7. What is the policy for returns requested within 60 days?
    Customers requesting a return within 60 days of purchase may be approved by our customer service team if the customer provides evidence that their case merits a return.

    Publishers requesting a return within 60 days of purchase will have their request reviewed and usually approved by our customer service team.

    8. What is the policy for returns requested after 60 days?
    Customers requesting a return after 60 days will be directed to the publisher for technical support. Publishers may request a return, on behalf of customers, of any purchase up to 90 days after the date of the ClickBank customer's purchase.

    9. Is there any other reason why a sale might be reversed?
    ClickBank has every incentive to keep customers happy by providing quality products and technical support. At times, we may reverse a sale in order to comply with: credit card industry rules, ACH industry rules, PayPal terms of service, US law, and requests from verified US judiciary or law enforcement agents.
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    • Profile picture of the author Eric Lorence
      A serial refunders' tracking website and database...

      Sounds like a golden opportunity to me...
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  • Profile picture of the author duanecwilson
    A universal serial refunder database sounds like a lawsuit waiting to happen. After all, many transactions have little tracking but by a credit card number, a Paypal email address and a first and last name. Whoever would store all this data (except for a merchants internal accounts, like Clickbank's own database, for example) would need to be very careful and have abundant security. That said, of course, it is still unethical and wrong to make purchases knowing that they will request refunds, but you can't page through an ebook like you can a book at Barne's and Noble. One reason ebooks sell as well as they do is this very privilege of refunding. Marketers should probably spend more time getting better customers instead of haggling over this. Otherwise, if people find out they use such a database, they may not even purchase the product in the first place for fear of being put into a database should they exercise the desire for a refund. Physical products may be an exception to this, however, in that much more personal information is taken and can be accurately entered into a database. Just my 2 cents.
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    • Profile picture of the author Eric Lorence
      Originally Posted by duanecwilson View Post

      A universal serial refunder database sounds like a lawsuit waiting to happen. After all, many transactions have little tracking but by a credit card number, a Paypal email address and a first and last name. Whoever would store all this data (except for a merchants internal accounts, like Clickbank's own database, for example) would need to be very careful and have abundant security. That said, of course, it is still unethical and wrong to make purchases knowing that they will request refunds, but you can't page through an ebook like you can a book at Barne's and Noble. One reason ebooks sell as well as they do is this very privilege of refunding. Marketers should probably spend more time getting better customers instead of haggling over this. Otherwise, if people find out they use such a database, they may not even purchase the product in the first place for fear of being put into a database should they exercise the desire for a refund. Physical products may be an exception to this, however, in that much more personal information is taken and can be accurately entered into a database. Just my 2 cents.

      Spoken like a true refunder...
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      • Profile picture of the author duanecwilson
        Originally Posted by Eric Lorence View Post

        Spoken like a true refunder...
        I figured someone would say that, but what I said needed to be said, and I will be honest, I have asked for a few refunds, BUT far, far, less than I have spent, thank you. Look, I am new to making money online and there are many, many scams out there. I hope you are not one of them. OK. We're even.
        I am just trying to interact a little in the forum. I may actually put my foot in my mouth. But nothing ventured, nothing gained.
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  • Profile picture of the author stanli
    Another way to deal with it is a metered delivery in a membership site, with the good stuff delivered after the refund period has passed.
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  • Profile picture of the author BIG Mike
    Banned
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    • Profile picture of the author Jon Alexander
      Originally Posted by BIG Mike View Post

      I spent months researching this concept a couple of years ago, with the intent of offering an online service to sellers. The underlying legal issues, the logistics of it, etc., were a freaking nightmare.

      Just trying to work around EU privacy laws was damn near impossible because you basically become an international credit reporting agency.

      I'm not saying that it cannot be done, but you're going to have a serious amount of start up capital, strong legal resources and a lot of aspirin. And in the end, I don't think the returns would merit the investment, at least not at this time.

      That's not to say that you cannot create your own internal blacklist...you can and should be doing that.
      as per usual, I agree with Mike, and I had a look at this 'opportunity' too a couple years back. My idea was to create a site that had free and paid memberships. Anyone could 'report' a refunder, but the report would carry more weight if the reporter was a paying member, and had actual payment details (time, value, ip, reason for report etc). There would be a simple API so any shopping cart could query by email etc, and get a 'confidence' score based on the number of reports. It would have to be hosted offshore to escape legal problems, and guess what? The market research showed that almost nobody would pay for it.

      So while everyone wanted it, no one was prepared to pay for it, despite the fact that (for example) a $25 yearly sub would be paid for by avoiding ONE chargeback per year...
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