ATTN: WSO LAUNCHERS..What is your opinion on REFUNDS??

66 replies
Hey everyone!!

First I don't want this to look like I'm against refunding wso buyers or that I don't refund everyone because I do, I refund EVERYONE who asks for a refund no matter what the reason it. But sometimes I send a few messages back and forth with the people who ask for refunds just to see what my product didn't do for them, and how I could improve!

What I've come to find out is, 90% of refunds has nothing to do with the quality of the information that they purchased. I hear excuses like, "Im afraid, can I have a refund", "I just don't see this working", "It seems like a lot of work", etc.

I purchase WSO's all the time and I rarely ask for refunds for one reason. In nearly ALL WSO's that I purchase I come up on at least ONE sentence of information that I didn't know that could help my current efforts.

The very few refunds I ask for are because I saw absolutely nothing that looked like valuable information that could help my business at all or if the sales page was totally misleading. I even always outsource the methods for at least 2-4 weeks to see if they work and if they don't THEN I'll ask for a refund.

A lot of people on this forum put the blood, sweat, and tears into these wso's, and most of them do have at least ONE very valuable piece of content that you can use to further your business, so why not respect their hard work? Asking for a refund should mean that the course was total crap.

I guess the serial refunders include people who are looking for THE GOLDEN PUSH BUTTON that will get them 10K over night WSO for free.

I've been to many IM training workshops that charge $297 at the least, and the people who stand up there and teach for 3 or 4 hours put everything into those presentations and I have yet to see one workshop offer refunds. No one in attendance even thought about refunds for such information anyway.

So any input on your thoughts about refunds?
#attn #launcherswhat #opinion #refunds #wso
  • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
    Banned
    Originally Posted by areevez View Post

    So any input on your thoughts about refunds?
    I've never done a WSO.

    If doing one, I would either allow a very long refund-period (like 2+ years), "secure" in the knowledge that refund-claims are almost always in inverse proportion to the length of a guarantee, hoping thereby to minimise them ... or simply give a very fully detailed and accurate description of the product, explaining comprehensively "who should buy it" and "who shouldn't buy it", have a very clearly stated "no refunds" policy and take my chances.
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    • Profile picture of the author WillR
      Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

      have a very clearly stated "no refunds" policy and take my chances.
      I suggest against doing this because those serial refunders don't care if you have a refund policy or not. They know if they purchase through Paypal they can go directly to Paypal and claim an unauthorized transaction. Even if you DO have a refund policy you will still have the odd gutless person do this - because they don't have the decency to contact you properly and ask for a refund. It doesn't help your reputation with Paypal at all.

      The best thing to do is just include a refund policy and as someone mentioned earlier, think of all the EXTRA sales you have probably got because of having a refund policy in place rather than the few sales you have lost. There are always going to be those idiots who purchase only to get your product for free but there isn't much you can do about it. Karma will take care of those idiots down the track. If using WSO Pro just make sure you block them from purchasing future products from you.
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      • Profile picture of the author SteveRamirezBiz
        Well as a seller I just accept refunds as a part of doing business online. Refunds don't really happen a lot in comparison to the sales you make with a product launch. The best way to minimize refunds is by increasing the value provided to the buyer with stuff like surprise bonus or the little extra things that will exceed their initial expectations of your offer.

        As a buyer of IM products I normally don't request a refund unless the seller outright lies in the sales copy or is trying to deceive buyers for money in exchange for no real value to the buyer. For example I recently purchased an IM software online and it would not work and AVG picked it up as a trojan virus. What did I get in return? Nothing... I then felt the seller should refund me the money because I didn't get anything of value in return.

        I ultimately feel that as long as there is an equal exchange of value then both the buyer and seller should be happy with the exchange.
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    • Profile picture of the author kindsvater
      Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

      I would either allow a very long refund-period (like 2+ years)
      I once had a refund claim come in after 3+ years. A real jerk too, so I told him to pound sand.

      Over about 10 years selling the product I believe I've had 2 refund requests.

      .
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    • Profile picture of the author timpears
      Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

      I've never done a WSO.
      You are someone I would like to see do a WSO. To get the knowledge you have on Clickbank product promotion would be killer.
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      • Profile picture of the author RandySeet
        In the past, I have attended to several cases about customers having dispute with boutique owners regarding refund.

        There was one particular unreasonable customer she had wore the pants for a few days and when she was about to wash it she noticed one of the side pockets was torn with a small hole.

        Cut the story short, in the end the boutique owner refunded back because he was intimidated by the customer if she didn't get a refund she will tarnished the reputation and at that moment the shop has just operated.

        The owner just want to focus on the happy customers.

        Yours Sincerely
        Randy Seet
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    • Profile picture of the author SpikeS
      Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

      have a very clearly stated "no refunds" policy and take my chances.
      Rubbish advice! You should always have a refund policy as that is part of your risk reversal and should be used within your copy.

      So long as you have less refunds than sales that is all that matters. Even the big boys refund sales...As others have said it is a normal part of doing business. It just stinks in info-marketing because people get to keep your product even after you've refunded. Until your products are no longer profitable due to refunds, I wouldn't worry about it.
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      • Profile picture of the author Bruce NewMedia
        Originally Posted by SpikeS View Post

        Rubbish advice! You should always have a refund policy as that is part of your risk reversal and should be used within your copy.

        So long as you have less refunds than sales that is all that matters. Even the big boys refund sales...
        Maybe for the big boys that's all the matters but for little IM folks, that's rubbish. If you only focused on having less refunds than sales, PayPal, as just one example, would limit or lock your account under certain circumstances, like this:

        So, say you had 100 sales, and had 50 refunds. By your definition, you're OK, right? Wrong. PayPal would note you are running a 50% REFUND RATE, which is....uh....high.

        And from what others have said, here and on other forums, crossing even the 5% refund rate, can bring you up on PP's radar.
        _____
        Bruce
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      • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
        Originally Posted by SpikeS View Post

        Rubbish advice! You should always have a refund policy as that is part of your risk reversal and should be used within your copy.
        You should never make absolute statements.

        ~M~
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        "Ich bin en fuego!"
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    • Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

      I've never done a WSO.

      If doing one, I would either allow a very long refund-period (like 2+ years), "secure" in the knowledge that refund-claims are almost always in inverse proportion to the length of a guarantee, hoping thereby to minimise them ... or simply give a very fully detailed and accurate description of the product, explaining comprehensively "who should buy it" and "who shouldn't buy it", have a very clearly stated "no refunds" policy and take my chances.
      As usual, Alexa has provided great info.

      I have seen refund rates as high as 7 to 10% for some WSO's, and when I looked at those WSO sales pages, they either promised the world, and/or were very mysterious and non-transparent as to the system they were selling.

      But even so, if you refund 1 out of every 10 digital products that you sell, you will make massive profits.

      Offer more than the standard 30 days, cheerfully refund, and don't spend a second crying over spilt drops of milk when your glass is still very full.

      Patrick
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      • Profile picture of the author Bruce NewMedia
        Originally Posted by CoolAromas View Post

        As usual, Alexa has provided great info.

        I have seen refund rates as high as 7 to 10% for some WSO's, and when I looked at those WSO sales pages, they either promised the world, and/or were very mysterious and non-transparent as to the system they were selling.

        But even so, if you refund 1 out of every 10 digital products that you sell, you will make massive profits.

        Offer more than the standard 30 days, cheerfully refund, and don't spend a second crying over spilt drops of milk when your glass is still very full.
        Patrick
        From a profit perspective, I agree. From a PayPal risk standpoint, you would be a prime target for 'Account Limiting' or worse.
        _____
        Bruce
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  • Profile picture of the author Zesh
    Refunds are part of business. We are always going to get people who are not happy with something. I think best thing to do is refund them and just move on to next.
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    • Profile picture of the author Bill Guthrie
      Originally Posted by Zesh View Post

      Refunds are part of business. We are always going to get people who are not happy with something. I think best thing to do is refund them and just move on to next.
      I agree completely. At first, I would ask questions about what the problem was, but now, I just refund them without thinking.

      Keep in mind it's typically not personal, and mostly not even about your product.

      But to go into the buyer's head for a moment...there is a lot of mystery in the sales pages of WSOs. Half the time sellers spend time talking about what the product ISN'T. That's strange, don't you think?

      So I think folks buy based on sensation and testimonies, but find out the product just isn't for them.

      All best,
      Bill
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  • Profile picture of the author LooseChange
    If you don't believe in your product enough to offer refunds you probably shouldn't be selling it in the first place. That's basic business knowledge.
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  • Profile picture of the author Willie Crawford
    They are a part of doing business, and you do get the
    buyers who refund before the download has even had a
    chance to complete, but they are not worth losing sleep
    over.

    I do think that it's important that you set the proper
    expectation in the mind of your buyers to reduce refunds,
    but have noticed that hype is almost mandatory on
    WSO's

    You'll notice that I've been active on the forum since
    dinosaurs first roamed the earth, and I don't think that
    I've EVER requested a refund. That's mainly because
    I read the WSO's closely so that I know what I'm
    buying beforehand, and I have realistic expectations
    for what I'll get from the products that I buy.

    I've actually rarely been disappointed with WSO's that
    I've purchased.

    Willie
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  • Profile picture of the author pearlydean
    I never ask for refunds as usually find some value in any WSO that I buy but some people will always ask for refunds. These people are usually the ones looking for the next shiny thing, freebie seekers or just time wasters. they won't do anything useful with your information anyway so I never worry about them!

    Cheers
    Keith
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  • Profile picture of the author areevez
    Thanks for your inputs, Definitely agree with all of them!!
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  • Profile picture of the author Jamie Charles
    When I first started out in "IM" I was afraid of people refunding, hell, I was scared of people unsubscribing from my lists.

    When I saw a refund request or someone requested their membership to be canceled from one of my membership sites, I took it to heart.

    But as your presence grows online, it just becomes a numbers game. I expect a certain number of people to refund per month, a certain number of people to cancel each month. No emotion anymore, just a part of business.

    I still handle my own customer service for the most part, and the only thing that really catches my eye is when someone sends me a plain evil or crude e-mail. And the only response to them is pleasant and helpful.

    Someone wants a refund?

    "Sure let handle that for you, thank you for giving my product a try, I hope I can help you in the future"

    Quick and painless.


    Of course then I curse them and their entire family ... ( Kidding
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    • Profile picture of the author David Keith
      with any digital content the refund rates will be higher than normal. and in general, lower priced products attract more refunders.

      i had a small hosting company a few years back and most of our support and refund issue came from our cheapest hosting packages. its just the way it works.

      but honestly if they are serial refunders you dont want them in your system anyway. they have almost no chance of making it to the peak of your marketing funnel, and for most people thats where the real money is anyway.
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      • Profile picture of the author eSubmarine
        I like to look at refunds from the other side of the coin.....

        How many additional sales has offering a guarantee/refund generated? ok i guess there is no real way to track this, but I know multipul people on this forum who would not buy a product if it didnt have a refund option. I am sure that goes for many more.

        I know the sales copy would have to be a corker if there aint a guarantee on it.

        So instead of looking at it like, oh crap ive lost 5% (or whatever ur refund rate is) of my profit to refunds. i like to think of it as offering the refund option has allowed me to profit more on the initial sale as it removes the risk from the customer. Without that safety net a lot of people would not jump on products.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jason Fulton
    Yep I've copped the 'this looks like too much work' or 'dont think i can do this' , just send them their money back and dont worry about them again.

    You will find these people buy 10 wso's a week looking for something that is 'done' for them and they dont have to work to earn money.

    Everyone on this forum who is making any sort of money knows it takes time and effort at the beginning to make things happen.

    Flick em a refund and keep building your business because you will make it a lot quicker than they

    Jason
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  • Profile picture of the author redbearing
    I am sure they have their own reason to do that but I wouldn't ask for refund if I can learn something new & beneficial for my existing business.
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  • Profile picture of the author ghostrecon
    It's the sad truth unfortunately, some people will request refunds for the most juvenile reasons. There is not much you can do, because failing to issue the refund (however small or big) may harm your sales later down the line.
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  • Profile picture of the author mfashraf
    Providing refund may be an absolute necessity nowadays but people trying to exploit the system isn't helping financial-wise.
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  • Profile picture of the author tpw
    Give them when requested.

    And those who seem to be abusing the refund system can usually be blocked from future purchases.
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  • Profile picture of the author xavierfok
    It looks like the warriors have agreed that giving out the refunds is the best choice.

    the common view was that its part of business

    Perhaps i could share another view, which is that the fact of the refund policy causes 2 things

    1. Increase in refunds (of course)
    2. Increase in sales

    With the refund policy, we have increase in sales more than the increase in refunds. So the refunds is actually a cost of getting the increased sales.

    And moreover, the serial refunders might actually start to find our product good and want to purchase it later. Not like we can do anything about it anyway, might as well adopt an optimistic view.

    Hope it helps!
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  • Profile picture of the author CyberSorcerer
    With me it's simple. I just have one IM product which is my online course and I don't give refunds and it's clearly stated in the sales video and TOS.

    You have to remember that your selling "make money" opportunities to people that don't really want to work and HAVE NO MONEY. Not exactly the ideal target market.
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    • Profile picture of the author vedremo
      Banned
      Originally Posted by CyberSorcerer View Post

      You have to remember that your selling "make money" opportunities to people that don't really want to work and HAVE NO MONEY. Not exactly the ideal target market.
      This is the sad truth.

      Think a refund policy is a necessary evil in the IM Market. It's come to be expected as part of the gig.

      Having a refund policy will attract new buyers - some good, some not so good.

      The other day I unfortunately had to ask for a refund because the product just lacked. Genuinely didn't get anything out of it. I wouldn't have bought it without the guarantee, seemed like the type of thing that wouldn't really deliver. Sent email to seller, vendor replied "Enjoy the freebie."

      Completely understandable that vendors can get frustrated when there are a minority who are just out to take advantage of the system. The type who ask for a 'review copy' and never leave a review - or who share the download link - or engage in otherwise unethical practise.

      One reason I generally steer clear of the IM Market.

      But we're fooling ourselves if we think all refund requests are from the unscrupulous.

      I think everyone who intends to make a wso should look at the lowest refund rate wsos and see what they all have in common. And conversely look at the highest refund rates.

      My two cents on it all.

      Thanks for this thread. Really good info and good to see different perspectives.
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  • Profile picture of the author Shannon Herod
    Refunds are a part of business and they are going to happen. However, serial refiners are a different story. Inside of my system I can ban the e-mail addresses or IP addresses of serial re-funders. And if I catch people refunding over and over again I will do that.
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    • Profile picture of the author WillR
      Originally Posted by Shannon Herod View Post

      Refunds are a part of business and they are going to happen. However, serial refiners are a different story. Inside of my system I can ban the e-mail addresses or IP addresses of serial re-funders. And if I catch people refunding over and over again I will do that.
      This is something that can be done in a lot of systems however all it takes is the person purchasing from a different computer to get around the ban. You can't really stop those who are adamant about doing this.
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  • Profile picture of the author onegoodman
    I never sold on WSO, but I did use to sell both products and services online. I do offer refund as one of the option once it seems that the customer not happy regarding less if he is right or not. Simply because i believe an important part of success is to treat your customers as the king or queen.

    I had one issue that someone ordered from my store a game and the game usually come with a bonus in some stores. Unfortunately mine didn't and nothing about that bonus was even mentioned, but the buyer contacted me asking about it, I explained to him that we didn't offer that bonus and he is more than welcome to refunded, and if he is not satisfied, we are more than welcome to send him that bonus.

    I made minus $5 after i bought and send that bonus item, but I know that will pay off because my customers are coming back for the good service.
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  • Profile picture of the author RussRuffino
    Don't worry about refunds. We're already spoiled as Hell in this business: we have nothing to stock, nothing to ship, nothing to manufacture, and basically no overhead. I think all of us can handle the few refunds that come in. As for the serial refunders, they're not gonna get anywhere online, with or without your information, so who cares?

    Russ
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  • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
    The wso sellers overall set the standards in this small section of the market. While the WSO section is a great market to earn an income, the income is NOT the reason to be offering a WSO.

    But because many WSO seller rely only upon offering a WSO for their source of income they all have to publish the no questions asked I'll refund your money for up too two years refund policies.

    Kind of reminds me of Chris Farely's movie where he had to go out and sell half a million break pads to save his fathers company. Remember? The guy was asking about his guarantee? He basically said, what good is the guarantee on the box if whats inside the box is a big piece of ****?

    The sellers set the standard for whats acceptable and as a whole the WSO sellers market has made it more and more acceptable to just refund right away because of the refund policies they set forth.

    There's so much more to this but I really don't feel the need to go into it, lol.

    I don't offer a money back guarantee on my product, I don't publish any kind of guarantee at all. Has it hurt my sales? Maybe just a bit, but I'd rather not have the money in the first place then have to deal with the time and effort spent giving the refund.
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    • Profile picture of the author mr2monster
      Originally Posted by Rus Sells View Post

      The wso sellers overall set the standards in this small section of the market. While the WSO section is a great market to earn an income, the income is NOT the reason to be offering a WSO.

      But because many WSO seller rely only upon offering a WSO for their source of income they all have to publish the no questions asked I'll refund your money for up too two years refund policies.

      Kind of reminds me of Chris Farely's movie where he had to go out and sell half a million break pads to save his fathers company. Remember? The guy was asking about his guarantee? He basically said, what good is the guarantee on the box if whats inside the box is a big piece of ****?

      The sellers set the standard for whats acceptable and as a whole the WSO sellers market has made it more and more acceptable to just refund right away because of the refund policies they set forth.

      There's so much more to this but I really don't feel the need to go into it, lol.

      I don't offer a money back guarantee on my product, I don't publish any kind of guarantee at all. Has it hurt my sales? Maybe just a bit, but I'd rather not have the money in the first place then have to deal with the time and effort spent giving the refund.

      I tend to agree. I've run both a refundable WSO and a non-refundable WSO and it doesn't seem to matter on my numbers. My refundable WSO never even got a whole lot of refunds though (3 ever).
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  • Profile picture of the author areevez
    Im enjoying reading everyone's insight!! Thanks a lot for contributing!
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  • Profile picture of the author areevez
    LOL at pound sand and 3 years? WOW
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  • Profile picture of the author wrongnumber
    Its more like... the WSO's pitch is so much revolving around everything and you cannot get the picture of what is the seller upto... it would have been better if the seller said... You have to do something related to Product ACME.... and the trick to what is to be done is in the sales package... but now 80% of wso sound like... they are a world changing event.... boast like this trick is not something you need to work upon... but like a mantra.... read it twice in your mind.... and by midnight fairy godmother will deliver tankers filled with cash and gold.... man come on sellers be realistic... tell your clients the maximum time and money and minimum profits you consider ideal... its more like the opposite in reality, they will put up Maximum figures (read imaginative figures) of profits... and work is told to be negligible... and the buyers are like... OMG... really?... yeah... i have some extra savings... whats harm in trying it... and then when they start reading... its a hell lot of work... loads of stuff to be understood and implemented all together... Internet Marketing should be declared as an ART... with attributes like... Persuasion, Tactics, etc...
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  • Profile picture of the author Bruce NewMedia
    Along these same lines, I wonder how many of you would refund if the request was made a month and half after the 30 day stated refund period?

    I've seen some on the WF say they would probably refund way past the stated period just to avoid problems with PayPal etc.
    _____
    Bruce
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    • Profile picture of the author DH5
      Originally Posted by brucerby View Post

      Along these same lines, I wonder how many of you would refund if the request was made a month and half after the 30 day stated refund period?

      I've seen some on the WF say they would probably refund way past the stated period just to avoid problems with PayPal etc.
      _____
      Bruce
      I haven't done a WSO before, but in my experience, selling millions of dollars worth of products and services online... it's usually best and easiest to refund them and avoid the headaches.
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  • Profile picture of the author Matt Briggs
    Originally Posted by areevez View Post

    Hey everyone!!

    First I don't want this to look like I'm against refunding wso buyers or that I don't refund everyone because I do, I refund EVERYONE who asks for a refund no matter what the reason it. But sometimes I send a few messages back and forth with the people who ask for refunds just to see what my product didn't do for them, and how I could improve!

    What I've come to find out is, 90% of refunds has nothing to do with the quality of the information that they purchased. I hear excuses like, "Im afraid, can I have a refund", "I just don't see this working", "It seems like a lot of work", etc.

    I purchase WSO's all the time and I rarely ask for refunds for one reason. In nearly ALL WSO's that I purchase I come up on at least ONE sentence of information that I didn't know that could help my current efforts.

    The very few refunds I ask for are because I saw absolutely nothing that looked like valuable information that could help my business at all or if the sales page was totally misleading. I even always outsource the methods for at least 2-4 weeks to see if they work and if they don't THEN I'll ask for a refund.

    A lot of people on this forum put the blood, sweat, and tears into these wso's, and most of them do have at least ONE very valuable piece of content that you can use to further your business, so why not respect their hard work? Asking for a refund should mean that the course was total crap.

    I guess the serial refunders include people who are looking for THE GOLDEN PUSH BUTTON that will get them 10K over night WSO for free.

    I've been to many IM training workshops that charge $297 at the least, and the people who stand up there and teach for 3 or 4 hours put everything into those presentations and I have yet to see one workshop offer refunds. No one in attendance even thought about refunds for such information anyway.

    So any input on your thoughts about refunds?
    I think is is fair if refunders give their reason for the request. I do not entertain those jokers who blatantly ask for a refund without even bothering to explain..
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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Wilson
    A really useful feature for Paypal to have would be a refund ratio. This would just measure their purchase to refunds ratio (e.g. an RR of 1.0 equals no refunds, an RR of 0.5 equals half of purchases were refunded). A seller could then indicate when creating their Buy Button the ratio below which they will not accept buyers.

    That way the seller could decide the risk level they want to accept based on an individual buyer's purchase history.

    What do you think?
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    • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
      That sir is an excellent idea! To bad it will never happen! = (

      Originally Posted by Mark Wilson View Post

      A really useful feature for Paypal to have would be a refund ratio. This would just measure their purchase to refunds ratio (e.g. an RR of 1.0 equals no refunds, an RR of 0.5 equals half of purchases were refunded). A seller could then indicate when creating their Buy Button the ratio below which they will not accept buyers.

      That way the seller could decide the risk level they want to accept based on an individual buyer's purchase history.

      What do you think?
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      • Profile picture of the author CyberSorcerer
        Originally Posted by Rus Sells View Post

        That sir is an excellent idea! To bad it will never happen! = (
        Originally Posted by Mark Wilson View Post

        A really useful feature for Paypal to have would be a refund ratio. This would just measure their purchase to refunds ratio (e.g. an RR of 1.0 equals no refunds, an RR of 0.5 equals half of purchases were refunded). A seller could then indicate when creating their Buy Button the ratio below which they will not accept buyers.

        That way the seller could decide the risk level they want to accept based on an individual buyer's purchase history.

        What do you think?
        That would be a great idea, but Paypal isn't really concerned about it because their going to make their processing fee either way.

        It would greatly help us out but when has Paypal "Really" cared about us?
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    • Profile picture of the author Dustin Goode
      My opinion is, it is a waste of time to try and argue with someone about giving them a refund. They most likely were going to ask for a refund before they bought your WSO, so you might as well just give them the refund and act as if they never bought your product to begin with. my .02.

      Originally Posted by Mark Wilson View Post

      A really useful feature for Paypal to have would be a refund ratio. This would just measure their purchase to refunds ratio (e.g. an RR of 1.0 equals no refunds, an RR of 0.5 equals half of purchases were refunded). A seller could then indicate when creating their Buy Button the ratio below which they will not accept buyers.

      That way the seller could decide the risk level they want to accept based on an individual buyer's purchase history.

      What do you think?
      That is a great idea!
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  • Profile picture of the author quicklinkbuilder
    Even if you have a wonderful WSO, people will still ask for refunds. Its inevitable sadly... Just give the person a refund and reject further buys from them.

    Good luck!
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  • Profile picture of the author BIG Mike
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    • Profile picture of the author CyberSorcerer
      Originally Posted by BIG Mike View Post

      Yes, it would impact some sellers negatively...but maybe that's not such a bad thing. If the onus for responsible purchasing is fully placed on the buyer, they're going to be far more hesitant to take chances, which in turn, will result in better quality WSO's (at least that's my theory anyways).
      It is for that reason that I have a good success rate with my students.

      But yes, not offering a refund will cut down the amount of conversions, purchases, etc that you receive and that is expected.

      My coaching program isn't the sole source of my income either so the cut down in sales doesn't really effect me.
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
    I have found what I think is the perfect balance for a refund policy.

    It is a 100% satisfaction, no questions asked refund policy, BUT...

    I don't publish it, and I don't include it as part of the sales letter.

    Now, I may lose a few sales from honest buyers, but I virtually eliminate ALL serial refunders.

    All a person has to do is ask for a refund and they get it. However, because I don't publish my refund policy, they have to really want a refund...enough to write me a note asking for one, even though they aren't even sure if they will get it.

    This may not work for everybody, but out of all the refund policies I have had over the years, this one is the most effective.

    All the best,
    Michael
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    • Profile picture of the author Bruce NewMedia
      Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

      I have found what I think is the perfect balance for a refund policy.

      It is a 100% satisfaction, no questions asked refund policy, BUT...

      I don't publish it, and I don't include it as part of the sales letter.....
      I think that's pretty good. If they email you BEFORE making a purchase, do you disclose this policy then, as well?
      _____
      Bruce
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      • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
        Originally Posted by brucerby View Post

        I think that's pretty good. If they email you BEFORE making a purchase, do you disclose this policy then, as well?
        _____
        Bruce
        Hi Bruce,

        Absolutely. If they ask, I have no problem disclosing it. Heck, I just disclosed it here.



        All the best,
        Michael
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  • Profile picture of the author MacS09
    I've only ever once seen a WSO without any refund - that was a download of a very large keyword list. Understandable, as once you have the list you have everything.

    Apart from that, everyone seems to offer refunds, and that's not only the case here but also offline. Sooner or later, it will become obligatory like buyer protection when purchases are made by credit card. Surprisingly, in the offline world retailers seem to survive even with refund policy and buyer protection...

    Max
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    • Profile picture of the author tpw
      Originally Posted by MacS09 View Post

      I've only ever once seen a WSO without any refund - that was a download of a very large keyword list. Understandable, as once you have the list you have everything.

      A lot of software sellers offer no refunds for the same reason.
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  • Profile picture of the author Chris Worner
    areevez,

    it really depends who you want as customers. Typically those who require a refund guarantee in order for them to buy are those who are seeking magic bullets, and are going to be more trouble than they are worth to you financially, unless you are specifically targetting those individuals for whatever reason.

    Personally, Im in favor of an all sales are final approach, such as that of Big Mike since I am not interested in dealing with noobs with stars in their eyes who want everything handed to them on a silver platter.

    Chris
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  • Profile picture of the author edbisquera
    I honestly haven't every asked for a refund, even on a couple WSO's I thought were crappy...even those I was able to pull something useful out of it, even if it's for my swipe file of "What not to do or offer!" :-)

    I guess most of the time the WSO's I purchase, are ones that have proven sellers and that have shown to be an app or content that is useful and that works!

    Ed
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  • Refund are going to happen but I think the most important thing to do is tell the buyer what they are getting up front. This is business and if you have a great product the sell you get for your product will out way the refunds.
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  • Profile picture of the author ephame
    I agree sometimes it's just best to bite the bullet give the money back and get them out of your hair. If that person can't handle trying a little bit to succeed or is unwilling to follow some instructions then you don't need them. On the other hand if you already provided a service and have given what you said you would and they are unhappy i'd be open to discussion as i wouldn't see it as easy a task to waste my time and then give away money. Some people will never be happy.
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  • Profile picture of the author AlexSafie
    You must refund with a smile.

    After a customer asks you for a refund email them back and thank them for trying out your product and tell them that their refund is on the way and that they can contact you if they have any further questions or comments.

    Remember that even though they asked for a refund they are still your customers and they are on your email list.
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  • Profile picture of the author areevez
    Enjoyed reading all the new comments since Ive been in this thread. Thanks for sharing your opinions. I agree with everyone who says just refund them and get them out of your hair. One thing I dont agree with when I see refunds is when they say the WSO was great and they learned some good stuff but the method just isnt for them. That to me is highway robbery. If you pick up one little tiny piece of advice that helps your career, asking for a refund is wrong to me.
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  • Profile picture of the author laustinseo
    I think if it is a case of man hours, then you shouldnt really refund as the hours cannot be returned, however if it is a faulty product then sure... refund them
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  • Profile picture of the author Ian McConnell
    I know this is not a WSO, but related to those serial refunders...

    I own a membership site and it hurts when I see a chargeback for the last 6 months from a member. But, my refund rate is less than 2% over the last 18 months, so I know my product is great. For some reason on the 6th month they just decided they wanted their money back and didn't have the courtesy to ask me.

    I used to take refunds personally but over time I have realized there are many different people in the world and what goes around comes around.

    Cheers
    Ian McConnell
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  • Profile picture of the author peakperformer
    I've launched quite a few WSOs here myself, and thus came across a ton of refund reasons...

    the "best and most creative" i've seen:
    "F**K you. I thought your salespage promised me 100% value. Why is it that your thank you page has an upsell to get me to buy something else. I thought you were giving me everything I needed. I'm truly disappointed in you. Please refund my purchase.. transaction ID: xxxxxxxxxxxxxx"

    In my honest opinion, refunds just cannot be stopped. I know many other marketers who would fight to the end to defend themselves and not give the refund, but I feel that it;s an utter waste of time for me.

    Not only do I risk the chance of my reputation being ruined by them (if they choose to spread bad stuff about me that isn't true just to get revenge), but I also waste a lot of time and energy to fight them.

    In most cases, i usually give the refund with a reply like: "I have refunded you the money. Thanks for trying. all the best "

    Unless the customer outright shoots me or my products with stuff that isn't true (and i stand by all my products and systems 100% as I really believe in their value), then I will probably send an email back to clarify things.

    If not, i will just refund without asking anything much. I feel that probing further is not necessary as they are in a "refund" frame of mind, so they may just crap some excuse up to entertain me, which will misguide me.

    This is just my style of doing it. I'm sure you all have your own way of handling it well too. WOuld love to hear more opinions and methods of how the other guys(and gals) do it

    Max
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  • Profile picture of the author inhwanie
    First off, I should clarify that I don't have an WSO. But I do have experience with digital sales online and this is my stance on it as of now.
    When you first start off, you would probably need to have refund as an option since the benefit of you gaining more sales from offering a refund probably outweighs the number of refunds requested.

    But as you gain some foothold in the area and provide more quality content, option of refund won't necessarily affect your sales rate because people who purchased your previous product trust in your content. Its kind of like purchasing computers. Generally people stick with one brand that's worked for them until they come across one that fails them horribly.

    Also, once others recognize you as a quality product creator, not providing a refund can have a similar effect as providing a refund when you first started off in terms of increasing sales. But i'm sure there are too many factors that play in and each case is different. The general concern with refunds from a seller point of view is probably that buyers will "steal" their hard work for nothing. I've had this concern when I first started off as well but its surprisingly less significant than I realized.
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  • Profile picture of the author leadgenninja
    I used to take refunds personally but soon learned they are to be expected and just a part of doing business.

    If you have to control something, it controls you.
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  • Profile picture of the author sal64
    If you can't afford refunds then you can't afford to run a WSO.

    Best insurance? Create a quality product.

    With over 600 sold, I have only ever had 2 refunds, and one because the guy decided it wasn't for him.

    No big deal really,
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  • Profile picture of the author Selmicro
    Just my two cents, but has anyone thought of offering a refund based upon a "minimum time" before they could request a refund? You know, like:

    Use the product for 90 days and if your not satisfied, just ask for your money back.

    The idea being that if they do try the product and it really doesn't work as they believed, they would have to wait to ask for a refund, perhaps making them really think about trying to make it work...

    My guess is that the serial refunders simply won't bother buying anything with this kind of refund policy... and most of those that do may forget about asking for the refund after 90 days...

    you could also give them a 30 day window, after the 90 try-it period, that they would have to apply within...

    Again, the goal isn't to screw any legitimate buyers, it is to dissuade the serial refunders.

    There would be nothing stopping you for "selectively" refunding in a lesser period for "good" customers" or "regular" customers who have a problem...
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  • Profile picture of the author nolol
    i am still trying to get $37 to get into the war room but i think WSO owners should offer refunds.!!
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