Is Honest Marketing Dead and Buried?

13 years ago

Hmm. Good question. Well the majority of people realize the 100,000/day sort of things are scams, and some times just catchy to in my opinion to see what the heck the person is thinking. I think the market likes alternative tips and tricks to build on previous knowledge. Such as people know how to use AdWords, websites like CJ/Clickbank for affiliate offers, but is there more profit to be maximized? Is there something people simply haven't figured out that you know? What can you provide that's widely unknown, unheard of, controversial? My thoughts.

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unclepennybags 13 years ago

In my opinion honest marketing will always out last the scams. Always, always, always.

People want to feel very comfortable before buying a product and there is no better way to gain their trust than by being upfront and honest.

Once you do that then you should have no problem converting sales even against all of those software giants.
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- jeffster 13 years ago
  
  Those slick sales pages that promise the world but tell you nothing sure can convert like crazy but in the long run nothing beats having a name that people trust.
  
  The honest approach might take you longer to build a following but if you are in this for the long haul than it's the only way to go.
  
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Spy4Hire

13 years ago

Honest Marketing is NOT dead but it is sometimes buried. Your wise to check the forums to see what others have experienced. I've gained a tremendous education here on Warrior's Forum and so will you. I located a great coach - Jason Fladlien - in fact I just started his 6in6 coaching program. I am a private investigator by trade and checked him out on the Warrior Forum AND online - no one had anything negative to say about Jason or his products. Jason appears to be one of the "honest marketing" gurus. Check him out if you're looking to build a solid business online and not just make easy cash.

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peakperformer

13 years ago

IMO, honest marketing is the way to go. I always ask myself this question: "based on the stuff I'm selling and the techniques I'm teaching... If i were to meet my customer(s) in real-life, would I be happy to see them, or would I be afraid and rather run away instead?"

if the answer is that you actually fear them and would rather run away and hide from them, then that means some part of your business is not right and you should change it immediately.

However, do note that all businesses, no matter how legitimate or honest, will always have some form of hype and marketing around them (to make things look slightly bigger than they are). Even the honest businesses do that on in a covert way.

As long as I can deliver results and really add SOLID, GENUINE value to my customers, I know that I can sleep well at night and I'd be happy to see my customers in real life.

Honest Marketing is the way to go if you're thinking of starting, as in the long run, you will really outlast all the competition

Also, the above person made a great recommendation - Jason Fladlien is indeed one awesome person to follow.

Hope this helps

Max

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David Keith 13 years ago

i absolutely think there is more room for additional products with an honest approach.

those shiny new get rich quick products do convert well, and they often get some decent quick momentum, but you rarely see the same guys pushing that stuff 2 years later.

i have been making money online since 1996 and the marketers that last are the ones that are the most honest. they do sometimes use a little more hype than i like, but they are not the ones pushing every 7 ebook promising riches.

its damn hard to build a good business relationship with a guy when you screw him over the first time you do business. when i get burned out of a $7 purchase, i just make a not of the guy and move on. never to do business with them again.

so my thoughts are that if you do have solid experience, it will show, and you will do fine. you very well may not have a huge quick launch, it may take some time to gain momentum, but 1,2, or 3 years from now, you will still be around making money in this niche.
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Matt Bard

13 years ago

Yes, honest marketing is dead.

You would be wise to stay out of this niche lest ye be tainted by all of us crooks and liars.
We are hopelessly lost but you have a chance to retain your decency and pure heart.

Run while you can and save yourself from this hell.

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drumguru69

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Matt Maiden

Yes, honest marketing is dead.

You would be wise to stay out of this niche lest ye be tainted by all of us crooks and liars.
We are hopelessly lost but you have a chance to retain your decency and pure heart.

Run while you can and save yourself from this hell.

Nice....lol

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royljestr

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Matt Maiden

Yes, honest marketing is dead.

You would be wise to stay out of this niche lest ye be tainted by all of us crooks and liars.
We are hopelessly lost but you have a chance to retain your decency and pure heart.

Run while you can and save yourself from this hell.

Haha

Well, they says that honesty is the best policy. I think that even though honesty certainly doesn't always make the most glamorous story it is the best route to go!

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Ansar Pasha

Banned 13 years ago

How do you define "honest"

... You'd be wise to not consider the IM niche the be all, end all of internet marketing. This is only a small slice of much bigger, more profitable markets.

This niche probably has the biggest number of gullible fools in it though (I'm just being honest). I feel bad for the people who believe in fantasy - there is much more to be sold than just "make money" products selling to other people who want to make money.

Ansar

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Matt Bard 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Ansar Pasha

...This niche probably has the biggest number of gullible fools in it though (I'm just being honest).

You should read some of the reports about young women who get ripped off by mechanics or some of the unfinished construction job nightmares.

Weight loss without exercise, palm readers, chimney fix scams, carnival booths, bait and switch scams in retail advertising, song contests that steal the applicant's songs, migrant farm worker's grocery store debt, sweat shops in every major city in the world, retail store price gouging in poor neighborhoods, class action lawsuits, U.S. medical prices...
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- kashino 13 years ago
  
  Thanks I appreciate all the advice, I have managed to make quite substantial amounts from online marketing, I wasn't planning on a 'make money product' per se but more of the fundamentals (or what I believe to be the fundamentals) of internet marketing.
  
  My main issue was that I was thinking to launch the product on clickbank and with the market being conditioned towards 'auto-profits' my product may stand out in a good way or it might not even make the top 10 pages. Possibly the route to go will be to JV and give away free information and see how the market responds!
  
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WebPen

13 years ago

As far as the huge hype vs "honest", I think it depends on who your target market is.

For 99% of people, the scammy make money online products can still sell really well. They think that a few minutes of work each day makes money flow into your bank account 24/7.

I think most serious IMers can see past that kind of hype though.

Also, looking at the WSO section- I dont really see the "push 3 buttons to make thousands" kinda stuff. Sure there are WSOs saying you can make hundreds or thousands a day, but generally they seem to be legit methods- not just push-button software.

But when it comes to the question of truly honest vs breaking the law- definitely keep it straight. A few bucks isn't worth going to jail for.

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Ken Leatherman

13 years ago

Just ask your Momma what she thinks? And if she slaps you behind the head and tells you "Just wait until your Daddy gets home." You know honest marketing is the way too a long time presence and a long term business.

But I don't believe "Honest Marketing" is dead. What I find disconcerting is the number of threads that are started with this topic. It really brings the question to my mind "Is this person thinking of doing some dishonest marketing?" And I always tell my self I hope not.

If your selling IMC stuff and it has helped you make money, then I say "Way to go Dude", now continue with the "honest marketing", because you have already answered your own question.

Ken Leatherman

The Old Geezer

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HeySal

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Ken Leatherman

Just ask your Momma what she thinks? And if she slaps you behind the head and tells you "Just wait until your Daddy gets home." You know honest marketing is the way to a long time presence and a long term business.

But I don't believe "Honest Marketing" is dead. What I find disconcerting is the number of threads that are started with this topic. It really brings the question to my mind "Is this person thinking of doing some dishonest marketing?" And I always tell my self I hope not.

If your selling IMC stuff and it has helped you make money, then I say "Way to go Dude", now continue with the "honest marketing", because you have already answered your own question.

Ken Leatherman

The Old Geezer

I agree, Ken -- WTF is in people's heads that so many are wondering if it's okay to be dishonest? It's gone from ridiculous to infuriating.

NO - IT IS NOT OKAY TO BE A CROOK, LIAR, OR THIEF. Is that plain enough for everyone?

If everyone else were jumping off cliffs like lemmings, are you going to do that, too? Humans are not money machines and this freakish idea of anything that makes you a buck is just fine is the most outrageously ludicrous idea that has ever taken hold of a society.

If that is where your head is going - you need to get off the computer and go mingle a little bit to remind yourself that you are not a mindless, souless extension of the machine you are operating - you are a human. There is a higher answering than the mighty dollar.

The world never tires of those with honesty and integrity. While scammers come and go, sometimes seeming to take the lead - there has never been a time in history that they haven't fallen - and hard.

Just because others are going insane doesn't mean you have to.

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rts2271

13 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

The world never tires of those with honesty and integrity. While scammers come and go, sometimes seeming to take the lead - there has never been a time in history that they haven't fallen - and hard.

Just because others are going insane doesn't mean you have to.

There is so much truth in this. Very Very Seminal post HeySal.

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kashino

13 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

I agree, Ken -- WTF is in people's heads that so many are wondering if it's okay to be dishonest? It's gone from ridiculous to infuriating.

NO - IT IS NOT OKAY TO BE A CROOK, LIAR, OR THIEF. Is that plain enough for everyone?

If everyone else were jumping off cliffs like lemmings, are you going to do that, too? Humans are not money machines and this freakish idea of anything that makes you a buck is just fine is the most outrageously ludicrous idea that has ever taken hold of a society.

If that is where your head is going - you need to get off the computer and go mingle a little bit to remind yourself that you are not a mindless, souless extension of the machine you are operating - you are a human. There is a higher answering than the mighty dollar.

The world never tires of those with honesty and integrity. While scammers come and go, sometimes seeming to take the lead - there has never been a time in history that they haven't fallen - and hard.

Just because others are going insane doesn't mean you have to.

Good evening to you too Sal lol

This is why I dislike forums sometimes - questions get taken out of context.
I merely am saying I am an honest marketer and I already make enough honest money through other niches. What I am trying to say is I want to break into the internet marketing niche and have longevity in that niche also, I'm not interested in making a $100,000 over a weekend with some scam product, I am interested in making $10,000 a year over 10 years, I am just questioning whether the market is ready for an IM product that adopts an ethical approach but requires input on their part to make it work rather than this 'set and forget' type mentality.

There was an era where the products were detailed and informative and the principles worked, nowadays these silly products are cluttering the market and I drowning out the people who have an honest agenda.

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RubenJames 13 years ago

Honest Marketing is DEFINITELY Buried!

But it DEFINITELY is NOT Dead!

Scammer/Con-artists hire the BEST copy writers (for $15-20,000) to write the PERFECT copy to reel in "Pie in the Sky" types that want to believe that they will make $100,000 that weekend with "3 clicks of their mouse"... and how many of those "types" are out there in cyberspace?

Honest IMers write not about "3 Clicks" but, perhaps, about whatever shortcuts they have discovered/rooted out/stumbled upon...that, usually, takes time to implement...and involves some (GULP) WORK!

And, how many entrepreneurs, who are willing to work, are out in said cyberspace? 1% or 2% as many as the "Pie-Guys"? :rolleyes:

There will ALWAYS be TONS and TONS of the "Pie in the Sky" types...that will make TONS and TONS of $$$ for the Con-artists!

And there will always be a steady stream of the "Nose to the Grindstone" entrepreneurs out there as well.

As Walter Cronkite would say, "And, that's the way it is!"

My conscience and my desire to sleep well at night leads me to hang with the "Nose-Grinders"...

And, I know I'd be quite nervous, to say the least, slinking around in the cyber "Den of Thieves" always looking over my shoulder...FORGET about Sleep!

Gonna go take a nap, now!

Ruben
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HeySal

13 years ago

Originally Posted by kashino

Good evening to you too Sal lol

There was an era where the products were detailed and informative and the principles worked, nowadays these silly products are cluttering the market and I drowning out the people who have an honest agenda.

Sorry if I misread your intentions. It wasn't just this thread that elicited my answer - it's a LOT of threads that continue to be posted regarding honesty and questioning whether it's a good idea.

Seriously, I don't remember that era. When I got online it seemed as if scams were all there was to being online. Noboby explained ANYTHING up front. You either signed up or you were completely blank about what was going on. Most of those are gone now. Of course, there's new scammers lining up to take over. Panda, Youtube, etc. just wiped another mass of em off their high horses.

Frankly - my answer stands. What exactly are you going to do if marketers aren't ready to humanize again? What if nobody would buy a product that had to be used honestly? Would you change your product or methods to make the cannibals eat it?

There are hordes of slime mold on the net. But there are honest people, too. If you release a valuable product, the honest marketers will buy it. You might not get rich overnight yourself by selling it, but over time you'll build a reputation and will sell that product until it becomes outdated. You will build an honest reputation and still be here after the current wave of vermin are eradicated. You will probably then build a new up to date product and continue to sell greater amounts as your reputation grows - because one thing about scammers is..........

They want dependable products, too. They might be willing to eat their own young to make a buck - but when they are looking to spend their own money they still look for the honest guys that will give them some value. Unfortunately, if your product means work, many of them will just copy yours to grab some quick bucks instead of learn from it. The honest marketers will learn from it and use it accordingly.

As a man I remember well once told me:

It jest be's like that sometime.

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NateRivers

13 years ago

It's definitely not dead. Take Pat Flynn's 'Smart Passive Income' blog for example, a lot of his posts have as much info or more than a lot of paid products, and it's free on his blog. He makes between 10-20k a month by showing how to use certain IM tools, but he's not selling 'blueprints'- he gives that part away for free.

His blog will get bigger and be around for a long time, and he'll keep making more and more money by providing a high level of value.

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kashino

13 years ago

@Naterivers I agree.

By the way let me just clarify my post, I wasn't suggesting I also too was going to join the hypey, no substance product, push button product brigade. I was thinking to perhaps hold on to my no-nonsense approach and either market it a different way or alternatively think of a way to break the pattern of the auto profit software junkies or decide those types of customers aren't my demographic and really aren't the ones who will have the drive to put anything I say into action.

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NateRivers

13 years ago

Originally Posted by kashino

@Naterivers I agree.

By the way let me just clarify my post, I wasn't suggesting I also too was going to join the hypey, no substance product, push button product brigade. I was thinking to perhaps hold on to my no-nonsense approach and either market it a different way or alternatively think of a way to break the pattern of the auto profit software junkies or decide those types of customers aren't my demographic and really aren't the ones who will have the drive to put anything I say into action.

Kelly Felix has an interesting post on his blog about going from the shady side of marketing to being honest. He's the guy behind the Rich Jerk and now Bring The Fresh. You can read his blog post here...

I'm sure Bring The Fresh is making gobs of money, but he claims it's nothing close to what he could make by joining the money-overnight clickbank scams.

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enzymatic

13 years ago

yes along with honesty and decency.

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rts2271 13 years ago

Honest marketing will never be dead for the people who are honest who do it. Theres alot of people on here with STRONG integrity, sure theres a few poopstains here and there, but overall WF has some great people with a good ethical backbone.
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Ansar Pasha

Banned 13 years ago

Matt, I am aware of the scams you brought up... however, there is a big difference in "real world" scammers and IM niche scammers.

... the "real world" scammers are far more cunning with their tricks.

You wouldn't realize they're scammers until AFTER they're long gone with the money. The problem online is you have to be dumb as rocks to actually believe the stories some of the so called "gurus" come up with.

I'm sure they're laughing their asses off all the way to the bank!

Ansar

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David Keith 13 years ago

there are a few outright liars, but in my opinion, most are telling their stories as they happened. they just leave out a few things

most of the 6 figures in 30 days experiences happen due to one of 2 things.

either they got lucky and something went crazy viral or it was a jv with other people they had existing working relationships with. people they had built long lasting relationships with.

but the main thing that the great sales letters make you forget is why in the world would this guy who has a system that he says i can replicate and make 6 figures sell it to me for $7. why is he not using this info...

here is a hint... its not because he loves you.

and just to be clear most of the fly by night scammers are not making much money. thats no consolation to the few they scam, but they are are not getting rich.

they burn a guy for $7 at the start of the marketing funnel and then when they try to recommend a solid $97 product for some real profit no one is listening.
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fivealive

13 years ago

Originally Posted by kashino

Hi guys,

As you can tell I'm new to the forum so apologies if this thread should be elsewhere or has already been discussed.

Well I have been making money online since late 2007 after buying an IMC course and my sites span across about 12 different niches/dropship sites but my ultimate aim has always been to break into the internet marketing niche, I now feel I have the experience and time to create really good products/s within this niche.

I am looking to create a product on my own experience and basically the
honest, no-nonsense approach to starting from scratch to making money online in IM, however research is telling me that the market is in favour of auto click $100,000p/m overnight software.

I understand you need to go against the grain but is now the time to adopt that approach? I would appreciate your thoughts and advice...

Do you want to make money overnight or do you want to build an IM empire? If your going for the later, honest marketing is the ONLY approach that will get you there. Be transparent, be real, and tell it how it is. People see through the BS. It might take longer to build your business this way but in the end you will have a house of bricks, not a house of cards.

I am going threw this same process and just wrote up something similar on my newly created blog: About Me | Brian Guiney Revenue Streams

I know its a long read, but its spot on with this topic and I believe you will find value in it.

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CDarklock

13 years ago

Originally Posted by kashino

research is telling me that the market is in favour of auto click $100,000p/m overnight software.

Do you have that software?

No.

Can you build that software?

No.

So WTF does it matter whether the market wants it?

I mean, as long as we're dreaming, I'd like a pony.

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Andrew Marketing

13 years ago

This is the reality nowadays.People want instant riches.They want to push a button to make a million $ and smart and evil marketers take advantage of this.

Honest marketing still works BTW.If you are making a product based on your own experience I bet that it will be sucessfull.And there is a reason for that:clever warriors aren't dead nor burried.

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f2f

13 years ago

Originally Posted by kashino

Hi guys,

I am looking to create a product on my own experience and basically the
honest, no-nonsense approach to starting from scratch to making money online in IM, however research is telling me that the market is in favour of auto click $100,000p/m overnight software.

I understand you need to go against the grain but is now the time to adopt that approach? I would appreciate your thoughts and advice...

Sod that approach, everytime a so called guru sends me an email about some stupid software, I unsubscribe. The auto click overnight software maybe what people think they want now , but sooner or later when they haven't made their $10,000, and are stressed out wondering why it hasn't worked, they'll come looking for honest guys like you.

I say go create your honest, no-nonsense approach product because they are more people out there looking for no-nonense help than you think.

I know plenty of great guys out there teaching IM honestly and they are raking it in!!

Good luck,
Tina

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Fazal Mayar

13 years ago

Well its like this in real life too, there seems to be a raise of thiefts, crime and etc. In internet marketing its the same but there are still honest marketers who will over deliver out there.

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Ben Armstrong

13 years ago

The irony is that honest marketing is something that will give you more value over a long period of time. You may not necessarily get a ton of buyers at the start, but you'll build a trust and a relationship that will pay you back in bucket loads in the coming years.

If you sell get rich quick crap you might make a stack of money immediately after launching but the suckers will not be back for more when they realise you're pushing garbage, and you'll need to find more suckers to take their place.

It's IM Karma.

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SEO Agency

13 years ago

Honest Marketing will last long, and that is what we long for!

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hotboy18

13 years ago

People want to make money fast online so they are constantly looking for new software and ideas to make money overnight. The truth is that's not possible because you have to learn the long term skills to make money effectively. On the other hand honest marketing has slowed down a bit because people are buying get rich quick scams.

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David Keith 13 years ago

the mods probably wont like this, but i believe places like the WSO forum exacerbate the problem.

there are 3-5k plus people browsing the WSO forum 24/7 and it only costs $40 to get access to that number of potential buyers. with little to no quality control, there is no wonder we have so many people selling bs...it is profitably to do so.

i have been involved with online marketing for 15+ (never in the how to IM niche) and it used to take a lot more money and a lot better product to grab the attention of potential buyers.

many of these bs wso would have never gotten a single sale because no marketer that had worked hard to build a list and a reputation would promote this garbage.

And since without some jv deal, their ideas would have actually had to work to build you own list from scratch. now, you just pay WF $40 and your in the black (profitable)

i would not complain a bit if the price to offer a WSO was 10x or 20x what it is now. of course i have never had a wso since i am not in that niche. (not in this marketing yet anyway, threads like this make me just want to create a ton of quality content that dwarfs all these get rich quick scams and puts them out of business)

many of the guys selling stuff in the wso could not hang with my marketing team for 2 weeks without quitting because they would realize they dont know half as much as they profess to know.

but $40 lets way to many people into the market that have no business being there. It would still be worth it for good products, and it would cut out a lot of very weak products and marketers.
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- HeySal 13 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by owslaw123
  
  the mods probably wont like this, but i believe places like the WSO forum exacerbate the problem.
  
  What exacerbates the problem is the sloth and greed of the masses who will stop at nothing to make a buck. What they don't understand is that when they buy products that promise overnight riches - they are most likely buying from the same type of vermin as themselves. Just deserts.
  
  If you are clueless enough to think people in this world are losing homes and going hungry because it's easy to make fortunes overnight, and you let greed dictate your business dealings -- well.......ever heard of just deserts?
  
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cardine

13 years ago

No, honest marketing is not dead.

The difference is your barrier to entry. If you do not have a skill, the easiest way to make money is to deceive others. However, if you actually have a skill, you can create a legitimate product that you can market honestly and ethically.

Generally when I see somebody who markets very dishonestly I think that they don't really have any other skills or else they'd be able to make something that has value and is worth marketing.

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jushuaburnham

13 years ago

We all know that honest marketing will last long and that's what we long for!

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Murlu

13 years ago

Honesty and Branding go a long way.

A lot of people are in it for the quick buck. They may certainly get some money but then they're off to figure out their next scheme which could be just a flop.

Instead, I always recommend building your online work as a real business. Bring in real clients by offering real products and real information. Do freelance work to build up your reputation. Launch new ventures that will give you the insight on how to actually do things instead of just reading a blog post. Get out and network with people that can mentor you. If it feels shady than don't do it - plain and simple in my book. Ethics. It's something a lot of people have forgotten about but those people are definitely going to be bit in the a**

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Gary Ning Lo

13 years ago

If you can make thing kind of software let me know..

You got your first customer..

Else stay honest and you'll be fine

Cheers,

~Gary

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wickedinnovation

13 years ago

I think they are both used by every business, honest and dishonest. Honest marketing for me is some kind of buried nowadays. Only few companies are still on the line on making marketing.

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Mreese601@gmail.com

13 years ago

The key to a great product is too provide value to the end user. Just make sure it's something that the market wants. Want more cash, provide more value.

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Is Honest Marketing Dead and Buried?

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