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Building A LIST in Today's Market

by scrofford
33 replies
When I first started a couple of years ago, I went all out in list building. In fact I had some success. But after a while I kinda let it die. It was in a niche that I wasn't really interested in and so I pretty much got out of it altogether because I wasn't really doing very well in it. Since then, I haven't really been trying to build much of a list.

When Google finally put the brakes on using PPC linked to squeeze pages is when I stopped. They don't like the lack of content squeeze pages have, and I know that there are some people who have written full sales letters for incentive products to build their lists. I'm not sure how that is working for them though. But at least they haven't gotten slammed by the big G when it comes to PPC and content.

So, I haven't worked on building a list for a while and I am about finished with several products I've been working on that I'm going to be offering in one of my niche markets. Actually it's the dog market.

I do want affiliates, so I really don't want to have "leaky" pages that offer opt-ins on the sales pages. That's not fair to the affiliate, and I want my affiliates to make money too. But I want to build up a huge list because I am going to be offering even more products and I know that it's way easier to keep a current customer than it is always getting new ones. I know you also will end up building good relationships and making more money.

So what are people doing now to build their lists? Are people still just using a squeeze page with little content, a great incentive or two and driving massive amounts of traffic to it? Or are they actually using PPC through Google and writing a full sales letter for the incentive?

What are you guys doing now to build your lists? I thought I knew more than I do about this subject. I just want to get off on the right foot with building a list again, so any input would be very helpful! Thanks in advance!
#building #list #market #today
  • Profile picture of the author JasonParker
    For paid traffic, I started doing all ezine ads/solo ads/email drops a few months ago and that's all I'm doing for paid traffic to build my list at the moment.
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  • Profile picture of the author David Keith
    i am not real sure where this idea of leaky pages got started just because they have an optin.

    if a site i am promoting as an affiliate has an optin and a solid follow up series along with a 30-60+ cookie then i will make more money than i would have if i had just been sending traffic to a buy or leave sales page.

    its much easier to get people into your marketing funnel with a free trial or other free report than it is to convert any traffic i can send you into sales that make us both money.

    once in your AR, your job is to use a great follow up series to convert them to buyers.

    the only issue comes when dishonest merchants either over write cookies or dont actually try to convert the original product and instead just use the list promoting cross sell offers.

    but if a merchant is going to to that, they will beat you out of commissions somehow..you can bet on it.

    ---- end of rant ---

    to answer your exact question. list building really has not changed that much. provide exceptional content and a compelling free offer with an optin and you are all set.

    the only thing that has changed much is the social media aspects of it, but that just means you now need to provide incentives for people to use social media to your benefit via word of mouth advertising.

    this should be fairly easy in the dog niche. the same old stuff works, funny, extreme, tips... things like that go viral.
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    • Profile picture of the author JasonParker
      Originally Posted by owslaw123 View Post

      i am not real sure where this idea of leaky pages got started just because they have an optin.

      if a site i am promoting as an affiliate has an optin and a solid follow up series along with a 30-60+ cookie then i will make more money than i would have if i had just been sending traffic to a buy or leave sales page.

      its much easier to get people into your marketing funnel with a free trial or other free report than it is to convert any traffic i can send you into sales that make us both money.

      once in your AR, your job is to use a great follow up series to convert them to buyers.

      the only issue comes when dishonest merchants either over write cookies or dont actually try to convert the original product and instead just use the list promoting cross sell offers.

      but if a merchant is going to to that, they will beat you out of commissions somehow..you can bet on it.

      ---- end of rant ---

      to answer your exact question. list building really has not changed that much. provide exceptional content and a compelling free offer with an optin and you are all set.

      the only thing that has changed much is the social media aspects of it, but that just means you now need to provide incentives for people to use social media to your benefit via word of mouth advertising.

      this should be fairly easy in the dog niche. the same old stuff works, funny, extreme, tips... things like that go viral.
      Sorry, but I wouldn't put my money on viral traffic or social traffic in building a good sized, high responsive list.

      If you want to build in the 10s of thousands then take the guaranteed route. Not the luck route.
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      • Profile picture of the author David Keith
        Originally Posted by JasonParker View Post

        Sorry, but I wouldn't put my money on viral traffic or social traffic in building a good sized, high responsive list.

        If you want to build in the 10s of thousands then take the guaranteed route. Not the luck route.
        the OP stated he had had some success building a list before. i stated that not that much had really changed except for social media stuff.

        my comments on social and viral were that they were probably the only 2 "new" things that he would need to learn more about. not that they were the WAY to build a big highly responsive list.

        list building is ultimately about just providing value to your prospects to get them onto your list. if you provide something for value in exchange for an email address, you will do fine.

        and i totally agree you can and should have your own products, and build your own list. not choose one or the other.
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        • Profile picture of the author JasonParker
          Originally Posted by owslaw123 View Post

          the OP stated he had had some success building a list before. i stated that not that much had really changed except for social media stuff.

          my comments on social and viral were that they were probably the only 2 "new" things that he would need to learn more about. not that they were the WAY to build a big highly responsive list.

          list building is ultimately about just providing value to your prospects to get them onto your list. if you provide something for value in exchange for an email address, you will do fine.

          and i totally agree you can and should have your own products, and build your own list. not choose one or the other.
          Then my apologies I just try to steer a few people in the right direction here every now and then.
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          • Profile picture of the author David Keith
            Originally Posted by JasonParker View Post

            Then my apologies I just try to steer a few people in the right direction here every now and then.
            no problem jason, and no apology was necessary. as i re-read my post, i realized i probably should have taken a little more time to make things more clear.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ross Cohen
    I had this exact contemplation not long ago. Thought long and hard and talked to lots of people. Fact is, you can't do both. Have to decide if you want to build a list or sell a product. If you split it, neither will have a great effect (as in, if you split it 50/50, you won't receive 100% benefit as you would only doing 1 of them).
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    • Profile picture of the author JasonParker
      Originally Posted by resellcells View Post

      I had this exact contemplation not long ago. Thought long and hard and talked to lots of people. Fact is, you can't do both. Have to decide if you want to build a list or sell a product. If you split it, neither will have a great effect (as in, if you split it 50/50, you won't receive 100% benefit as you would only doing 1 of them).
      Not true.

      The misinformation on this forum lately is killing me.

      Time to take a stand I guess.
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    • Profile picture of the author scrofford
      Originally Posted by resellcells View Post

      I had this exact contemplation not long ago. Thought long and hard and talked to lots of people. Fact is, you can't do both. Have to decide if you want to build a list or sell a product. If you split it, neither will have a great effect (as in, if you split it 50/50, you won't receive 100% benefit as you would only doing 1 of them).
      The whole reason to build a list is to not only build a great relationship with the people on your list, but to be able to sell to them over and over and over. Why would you build a list if you weren't going to offer a product to sell them? That makes no sense.
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    • Profile picture of the author Coby
      Originally Posted by JasonParker View Post

      For paid traffic, I started doing all ezine ads/solo ads/email drops a few months ago and that's all I'm doing for paid traffic to build my list at the moment.
      This is where I spend 99% of my money when buying traffic and it simply works

      Originally Posted by owslaw123 View Post

      i am not real sure where this idea of leaky pages got started just because they have an optin.

      if a site i am promoting as an affiliate has an optin and a solid follow up series along with a 30-60+ cookie then i will make more money than i would have if i had just been sending traffic to a buy or leave sales page.

      its much easier to get people into your marketing funnel with a free trial or other free report than it is to convert any traffic i can send you into sales that make us both money.

      once in your AR, your job is to use a great follow up series to convert them to buyers.

      the only issue comes when dishonest merchants either over write cookies or dont actually try to convert the original product and instead just use the list promoting cross sell offers.

      but if a merchant is going to to that, they will beat you out of commissions somehow..you can bet on it.

      ---- end of rant ---

      to answer your exact question. list building really has not changed that much. provide exceptional content and a compelling free offer with an optin and you are all set.

      the only thing that has changed much is the social media aspects of it, but that just means you now need to provide incentives for people to use social media to your benefit via word of mouth advertising.

      this should be fairly easy in the dog niche. the same old stuff works, funny, extreme, tips... things like that go viral.
      I agree 100% on this... You have to be SMART as an affiliate...

      An opt-in does not mean a leak... In fact if the vendor does their job correctly you should be cookie'd and get the sale from their follow ups...

      Charles Kirkland (super affiliate, CB apex) recommends doing this...

      If you use affiliate programs like nanacast that use IP tracking and send traffic to legit vendors who are actually trying to convert the buyers and not just screw their affiliates in order to build their own list...

      Another option is to use an exit pop to try to get them on your list...

      Originally Posted by resellcells View Post

      I had this exact contemplation not long ago. Thought long and hard and talked to lots of people. Fact is, you can't do both. Have to decide if you want to build a list or sell a product. If you split it, neither will have a great effect (as in, if you split it 50/50, you won't receive 100% benefit as you would only doing 1 of them).
      Dude! Are you serious?

      One example of a person who built their list doing exactly this...

      Lee McIntyre... Ever heard of him?

      He has a list of 100K mostly through selling products...

      Many warriors build their lists selling products as WSO and offer 100% commission...

      I have a list of 12K in a year and I'm doing exactly that...

      Maybe I'm wrong
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    • Profile picture of the author Alex Barboza
      Originally Posted by resellcells View Post

      I had this exact contemplation not long ago. Thought long and hard and talked to lots of people. Fact is, you can't do both. Have to decide if you want to build a list or sell a product. If you split it, neither will have a great effect (as in, if you split it 50/50, you won't receive 100% benefit as you would only doing 1 of them).
      C'mon! You can't be serious. Have you ever heard about preselling and reframing? Is its way easier to do that repeatedly through email marketing.
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      • Profile picture of the author scrofford
        Originally Posted by Alex Barboza View Post

        C'mon! You can't be serious. Hae you ever heard about preselling and reframing? Is its way easier to do that repeatedly trhough email marketing.
        Yeah I agree with you here. Like I said in the OP, it's always easier to continuously sell to a current customer than constantly trying to find new ones all the time.
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  • Profile picture of the author steve solo
    email marketing is by far the most cost effective way of building a list,..so far I haven't been using non of the ppc, ppv etc,..its been working miracles for me,..hmmm
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    • Profile picture of the author brookman12
      I started out using the Directory Of Ezines. You can get a lifetime membership for $197 and its worth every penny. The guy who runs it is called Charlie Page and will discuss any areas you want on the phone for uo to 15 mins a week. You can then start running any type of ads you want to depending on your budget.
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      • Profile picture of the author myob
        Originally Posted by brookman12 View Post

        I started out using the Directory Of Ezines. You can get a lifetime membership for $197 and its worth every penny. The guy who runs it is called Charlie Page and will discuss any areas you want on the phone for uo to 15 mins a week. You can then start running any type of ads you want to depending on your budget.
        I highly recommend the DOE. Been using it for over 10 years now, not just for the solo ads, but many of these ezine publishers are also hungry for articles to send out to their subscribers. Lists can range anywhere from a few hundred to tens of thousands, and many of these subscribers themselves have lists of their own.

        Having your articles published in targeted ezines is the best implied endorsement possible, and the traffic is highly convertable. IMO, it's the most powerful free marketing method bar none, and can be done even by newbies with some writing skills.
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        • Profile picture of the author scrofford
          Originally Posted by myob View Post

          I highly recommend the DOE. Been using it for over 10 years now, not just for the solo ads, but many of these ezine publishers are also hungry for articles to send out to their subscribers. Lists can range anywhere from a few hundred to tens of thousands, and many of these subscribers themselves have lists of their own.

          Having your articles published in targeted ezines is the best implied endorsement possible, and the traffic is highly convertable. IMO, it's the most powerful free marketing method bar none, and can be done even by newbies with some writing skills.
          Hey Myob, thanks for telling me more about DOE. I think I'll really check it out! It sounds like you really have a lot of success with that and I think I could possibly too!
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  • Profile picture of the author Ansar Pasha
    Banned
    LOL at "steve"...

    I haven't done any PPC for a few years... and going back into the game now would definitely give me goosebumps.

    But have you thought about creating a minisite centered around collecting the email address? This way, you can get all your orgranic traffic from articles, send PPC traffic, and have all your products available.

    I'd recommend modeling EP's Double Your Dating. I know he's a fanatical tester and he's been at it for years. Of course, you can always create different kinds of pages for the traffic you're getting maximize it. Especially if you're sending solo's, don't take a chance .... Just send them straight to a squeeze page.

    Ansar
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    • Profile picture of the author scrofford
      Originally Posted by Ansar Pasha View Post

      LOL at "steve"...

      I haven't done any PPC for a few years... and going back into the game now would definitely give me goosebumps.

      But have you thought about creating a minisite centered around collecting the email address? This way, you can get all your orgranic traffic from articles, send PPC traffic, and have all your products available.

      I'd recommend modeling EP's Double Your Dating. I know he's a fanatical tester and he's been at it for years. Of course, you can always create different kinds of pages for the traffic you're getting maximize it. Especially if you're sending solo's, don't take a chance .... Just send them straight to a squeeze page.

      Ansar
      Hey Ansar,

      Yes this is something that I was thinking about when I was talking about a full sales letter for an incentive in the OP. I'm thinking this might be a good solution with list building now days.
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  • Profile picture of the author jkiley
    Android apps is the way to build list. I added 1100+ people yesterday and 1000+ the day before. I now have about 100K and I started doing this about 4 months ago.
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    • Profile picture of the author JasonParker
      Originally Posted by jkiley View Post

      Android apps is the way to build list. I added 1100+ people yesterday and 1000+ the day before. I now have about 100K and I started doing this about 4 months ago.
      Where can I find out more about this?
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      • Profile picture of the author jkiley
        Originally Posted by JasonParker View Post

        Where can I find out more about this?

        You mean about android? go to android.com.

        I have been telling people (and people have been ignoring me. hahaha) that smart phones is the way to do it. Forget about building another website - there are already too many out there.

        PM me and I can send you a powerpoint that I have build to sell cutomized version of my application.
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        • Profile picture of the author JasonParker
          Originally Posted by jkiley View Post

          You mean about android? go to android.com.

          I have been telling people (and people have been ignoring me. hahaha) that smart phones is the way to do it. Forget about building another website - there are already too many out there.

          PM me and I can send you a powerpoint that I have build to sell cutomized version of my application.
          hahaha...

          You're not alone! No one listens to me either lol... I gave up on trying to get people to listen a LONG time ago.

          Thanks for the offer. PMing you now.
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    • Profile picture of the author jrodriguez315
      Originally Posted by jkiley View Post

      Android apps is the way to build list. I added 1100+ people yesterday and 1000+ the day before. I now have about 100K and I started doing this about 4 months ago.
      Now there's a newer strategy. How did you get started with that?
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      • Profile picture of the author jkiley
        Originally Posted by jrodriguez315 View Post

        Now there's a newer strategy. How did you get started with that?
        I am a programmer myself.

        In last couple of years, I have developed a very powerful vertical market search engine (jobs, cars, properties, etc) so all my apps are based on those.

        I must tell you that not everybody is having the same success on android as I do.
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  • Profile picture of the author Troy_Phillips
    Steve,

    The quickest way I have learned to build a list in a new niche is to find those who already have huge list .. well almost.

    Those with those megalist usually want to know things like conversion rates and such. To accomplish this you need to find a few people with smaller list first. 1000 member list ... 5000 .. 10,000.

    With this initial traffic, you can split test and come up with numbers needed. All the time building your own list and making some cash.

    I see a lot of people on here talking about how hard it is to get people to send emails for you but it really isn't that hard. Sure you will find some who thinks their list is pure gold and demand 75% commissions or higher.

    Not saying some of those list holders are not worth it .. just haven't had to go that route.

    Usually you can give 50% on the front end, have a higher end backend with another 50% and the deal sealer can come in the form of a continuity offer mixed in the product.

    You will be surprised at the list owners who really don't want to send out your $67 miracle for 50% or your $997 backend for 50% but will jump at sending out your offer if it includes a continuing monthly that is as little as $9 a month.

    Jump hard Steve .... list building is still very much alive and well.

    Troy
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    • Profile picture of the author JasonParker
      Originally Posted by Troy_Phillips View Post

      Steve,

      The quickest way I have learned to build a list in a new niche is to find those who already have huge list .. well almost.

      Those with those megalist usually want to know things like conversion rates and such. To accomplish this you need to find a few people with smaller list first. 1000 member list ... 5000 .. 10,000.

      With this initial traffic, you can split test and come up with numbers needed. All the time building your own list and making some cash.

      I see a lot of people on here talking about how hard it is to get people to send emails for you but it really isn't that hard. Sure you will find some who thinks their list is pure gold and demand 75% commissions or higher.

      Not saying some of those list holders are not worth it .. just haven't had to go that route.

      Usually you can give 50% on the front end, have a higher end backend with another 50% and the deal sealer can come in the form of a continuity offer mixed in the product.

      You will be surprised at the list owners who really don't want to send out your $67 miracle for 50% or your $997 backend for 50% but will jump at sending out your offer if it includes a continuing monthly that is as little as $9 a month.

      Jump hard Steve .... list building is still very much alive and well.

      Troy
      Hey Troy,

      I see you're from North Georgia... I grew up there and lived there most of my life

      Can you tell me how you're approaching list owners with your offer?

      I've never been good at "cold emailing" anyone.

      I always need some kind of connection or to be introduced to someone for them to listen to me.

      So I'm just curious...
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      • Profile picture of the author Troy_Phillips
        I find people in forums and on Google One that have sites that are relative but in not direct competition with me. If you are selling dog bones, dog bones dot com .. probably not going to be a friend.

        The product is only behind the offer in importance.

        Making a one size fits all offer, although I have never really tested it, will not get satisfactory results. If there is any way around it .. never cold call.

        Find their blog .. read it ... pour on praise in a way that builds their credibility ..... Back links are great but .. this is one time a backlink could make you appear to be salesy ... everyone hates a salesman.

        That blog will usually point you to their face book, twitter, a mailing list, and maybe the trail leads to a forum they frequent.

        The product

        The product really does need to be good but there are a lot of good products that is dying digital death as you read this. If you can set up a good product, one that contains a decent low end/entry that compels the buyer to press forward but makes the buyer happy if they do not go forward, a $300 minimum backend, and a monthly continuity option ... you are offering the list owner immediate, intermediate, and long term money from sending out one email .... many will run a series for you.

        Go the extra mile.

        Have everything set up for the list builder. Already have your stats available (if you are at the stage of having them) have their back ofice set up with their own affiliate links and I even set up 307 redirects for them.

        Already have a single email and a series set up for them. Might even do a few of these in advance .. you can plug in the list builders info as needed and if you already have them plug and play ready ..... you look like you have been there and done that


        Troy



        Originally Posted by JasonParker View Post

        Hey Troy,

        I see you're from North Georgia... I grew up there and lived there most of my life

        Can you tell me how you're approaching list owners with your offer?

        I've never been good at "cold emailing" anyone.

        I always need some kind of connection or to be introduced to someone for them to listen to me.

        So I'm just curious...
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  • Profile picture of the author Rod Cortez
    Originally Posted by scrofford View Post

    ............What are you guys doing now to build your lists? I thought I knew more than I do about this subject. I just want to get off on the right foot with building a list again, so any input would be very helpful! Thanks in advance!
    Gosh, I could write a trilogy on this one subject alone. I build my lists using a wide variety of sources and tactics:

    * Press releases
    * Paid traffic
    * Television and radio interviews (using press releases effectively is one way to get these!)
    * Distributing content (think articles, videos, RSS feeds, podcasts, etc.)
    * Recruiting affiliates
    * Joint Ventures
    * Strategic Alliances
    * Licensing
    * Giving away free software that always links back to the website of your choice

    That should keep you busy for the next few years!

    RoD
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  • Profile picture of the author scrofford
    Ok, so with paid traffic like PPC how are you getting around that with just a squeeze page? Google for instance doesn't like that sort of thing. Again, a longer sales letter seems like it would be better even though it's a free incentive being offered. That would get around the squeeze page issue. So who here is using paid traffic methods and what is it you are doing and how are you doing it if I may ask?
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    • Profile picture of the author Rod Cortez
      Originally Posted by scrofford View Post

      Ok, so with paid traffic like PPC how are you getting around that with just a squeeze page? Google for instance doesn't like that sort of thing. Again, a longer sales letter seems like it would be better even though it's a free incentive being offered. That would get around the squeeze page issue. So who here is using paid traffic methods and what is it you are doing and how are you doing it if I may ask?
      You're right, Google does not like squeeze pages, so I don't use them when I use PPC from Adwords. I send people to what I like to call a "content squeeze page". I send them to a well-designed, professional looking web page that has useful and valuable content such as articles, videos, podcasts, etc.

      There are a wide variety of ways to do this, but for the sake of brevity, the information is always useful but incomplete. You send your visitor to either a sales page on the 2nd tier (a.k.a. 2nd click) or to a squeeze page and that will depend on what type of sales funnel you want to use.

      One example of this is to create a home page with useful articles. When they click on the article, part of the article will be on your home page. Then there will be a link at the end of the article so they can go to your article page and read the entire article. You then have a resource link with compelling copy, if they want more information, that will send them to wherever you want.

      That's one way on how you cab get around the squeeze page issue. Also keep in mind you can buy banners pretty cheap these days. They're conversion rates are lower, but if you buy them in volume and test your conversions it could possibly work for you. You can also buy advertising from other niche websites / authority sites. For more information on the terminology and really become familar with this, I usually send people to Jonathan Mizel's Traffic Evolution course. It's not cheap, but for me it was worth every penny.

      There's a lot to know if you want to make paid traffic work for you. While you can start an account for as little as $35 - 50 with some companies, you have to realize it might take $200, $500, or more to test your conversions before you get a profit ad campaign going. PPC Coach is another membership website that teaches people how to do this for what I think is a very affordable price.

      Hope this helps!

      RoD
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  • Profile picture of the author bbjgolf
    I appreciate all the talk on here about list building. I have been working on building my list over the past 2 months. I have has some success but I find threads like this one very informative even if there is a difference of opinion.
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  • Profile picture of the author paul nicholls
    ive been mainly building my lists with solo ads for paid traffic they are very hard to beat

    free traffic im using my blog, videos, articles, and social media

    paul
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  • Profile picture of the author LukeDavenport
    Try looking into mini giveaway events. Being a sponsor for one is an incredible way to build your list! Kelvin Nikkel sells a cheap course called Subscriber Bonanza | that will show you how to get started! He built a list of 4,000 members in 30 days with this technique. Hope that helps
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