"Internet Is Least Effective Way To Sell" - Gary Halbert | Warrior Forum - The #1 Digital Marketing Forum & Marketplace

13 years ago

Yeah I read Gary's stuff and he is an amazing copywriter. I do seem to think that the offline world is still more profitable than the online world, mostly because many people do not think of trying to make money by using ad campaign offline.

Given the time, I might actually try selling a few things offline by direct advertising.

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SpikeS

13 years ago

Originally Posted by YasirYar

Yeah I read Gary's stuff and he is an amazing copywriter. I do seem to think that the offline world is still more profitable than the online world, mostly because many people do not think of trying to make money by using ad campaign offline.

Given the time, I might actually try selling a few things offline by direct advertising.

I think he's right too. I think people are starting to feel ripped off paying $47+ for a download compiled of a few pdf's and/or videos. But send them the same stuff in snail mail, all printed and in multiple 'peices' i.e. manuals, dvds etc. Suddenly it feels like they got 'a lot of stuff' and will happily pay the premium.

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YasirYar

13 years ago

Originally Posted by SpikeS

I think he's right too. I think people are starting to feel ripped off paying $47+ for a download compiled of a few pdf's and/or videos. But send them the same stuff in snail mail, all printed and in multiple 'peices' i.e. manuals, dvds etc. Suddenly it feels like they got 'a lot of stuff' and will happily pay the premium.

The best thing is, there is no Viagra related spam in the offline world

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Andyhenry

13 years ago

Worth considering, but actually the reason some people work online is precisely because they do NOT want to deal with people offline. I know for example that I could make more sales of my books by pushing them and doing signings etc. but I'm very happy to just bank Amazon cheques every month for zero work.

It's not always about doing whatever makes money. Sometimes the beauty of creating your own business is that you don't have to do what others who are driven by the dollar feel they need to.

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SpikeS

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Andyhenry

Worth considering, but actually the reason some people work online is precisely because they do NOT want to deal with people offline. I know for example that I could make more sales of my books by pushing them and doing signings etc. but I'm very happy to just bank Amazon cheques every month for zero work.

It's not always about doing whatever makes money. Sometimes the beauty of creating your own business is that you don't have to do what others who are driven by the dollar feel they need to.

Very, very true and a good point. Having read the "4 hour work week", for some, it is as you say; literally just using the efficiency of the internet to free up time - your most valuable resource.

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Richard Van

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Andyhenry

....but I'm very happy to just bank Amazon cheques every month for zero work.

It's not always about doing whatever makes money. Sometimes the beauty of creating your own business is that you don't have to do what others who are driven by the dollar feel they need to.

Exactly Andy.

I know from speaking to Roger (ExRat) that that's rather his philosophy - Lifestyle - the freedom to choose when and how often you decide to work, play tennis or relax in the sun of a nice pub garden.

I admit I work too hard now and I do most of my business online though I do have an offline consulting business but this is because I like to meet people. Ultimately though my aim is to reduce this work and outsource more. At first when I started and almost to now it was about money and working hard. I now realise lifestyle is becoming more important (as I grow older

) and I'm getting increasingly more focused on taking more days off and enjoying life.

Apart from when people loot shops and set fire to them of course but the summer holidays are nearly over and they'll all be safely tucked away in maths lessons again soon.

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Jetmir

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Andyhenry

Worth considering, but actually the reason some people work online is precisely because they do NOT want to deal with people offline. I know for example that I could make more sales of my books by pushing them and doing signings etc. but I'm very happy to just bank Amazon cheques every month for zero work.

It's not always about doing whatever makes money. Sometimes the beauty of creating your own business is that you don't have to do what others who are driven by the dollar feel they need to.

I couldn't agree more!

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SpinnerHawk

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Andyhenry

Worth considering, but actually the reason some people work online is precisely because they do NOT want to deal with people offline. I know for example that I could make more sales of my books by pushing them and doing signings etc. but I'm very happy to just bank Amazon cheques every month for zero work.

It's not always about doing whatever makes money. Sometimes the beauty of creating your own business is that you don't have to do what others who are driven by the dollar feel they need to.

So true Andy, I had a job offline. It requires me to spend time out of home most of the day, and come back home tired.

Now I'm working online and spend my time mostly at home, and going out just for fun, socializing, sports and other fun stuff. Now I can see my family more often than before, I don't think it's for everybody but this is the way I like my life to be.

Of course I also like this business to be bigger without sacrificing the comfort I have, so now I'm saving some income and planning to rent an office space around the neighborhood. Far enough to be called an office, but close enough to walk home anytime I need my nap

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David Morris

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Andyhenry

Worth considering, but actually the reason some people work online is precisely because they do NOT want to deal with people offline. I know for example that I could make more sales of my books by pushing them and doing signings etc. but I'm very happy to just bank Amazon cheques every month for zero work.

It's not always about doing whatever makes money. Sometimes the beauty of creating your own business is that you don't have to do what others who are driven by the dollar feel they need to.

Exactly my thoughts..This is the reason I started doing business online in the first place!

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danieldroga

13 years ago

Yeah, I have heard about that but I don't know much. It is quite impressive, thanks for posting it anyway.

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Ian McConnell

13 years ago

Yes, I totally agree that offline marketing conversions are so much better, but I also am focused on the lifestyle aspect of internet marketing.

I sell my product online and offline and it gets very time consuming having to deal with the postage.

Cheers
Ian McConnell

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Richard Groom

13 years ago

Offline will always maintain a position as a fantastic place to do business because essentially it's all we know. Lots of the world still don't even have internet.

There are pros and cons for both when I really think about it and I have done lots of both!

Internet is a clear winner for time, mass markets etc. but you cant beat actually meeting people and having a physical product. To say one is least effective is wrong!

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Richard Groom

13 years ago

I wold just like to add...it's not the medium you use to sell which is ineffective more the techniques you use. There are countless examples of major success stories for both internet and non-internet selling/business!!

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Ron Douglas

13 years ago

I wonder what Gary would have thought of the relative effectiveness of selling via webinars. I respect his brilliance, but webinars make his "least effective" statement invalid and outdated IMHO.

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Richard Van

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Ron Douglas

I wonder what Gary would have thought of the relative effectiveness of selling via webinars. I respect his brilliance, but webinars make his "least effective" statement invalid and outdated IMHO.

Having watched the Warrior meet up video's I have to agree. The conversion rate from them is something else, not to mention you've an hour or whatever to really get your stuff across in what is effectively a face to face pitch but with out the pressure and lots of great information.

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myob 13 years ago

What many people seem to keep missing is that you are leaving a whole lot of money on the table by ignoring any marketing media. I am ambidextrous - working both online and offline. Over 60% of my online sales come from offline promotions.
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- Bill Farnham 13 years ago
  
  When Gary was alive, selling on the internet was reletively small compared to what it is today. Just look at the growth of Amazon or how Wal-Mart, or Lowes, Home Depot, and many other stores have moved to the web to grow their sales.
  
  Or look at Boarders, or Barnes and Noble and see how they fared against their online competitors for the other end of the spectrum.
  
  One of the reasons for these Nexus laws is the huge lobbying push by offline merchants who see the tremendous growth of online sales and want to even the playing field. This wasn't part of the equation when Gary was alive.
  
  Things have changed a bit since that video.
  
  ~Bill
  
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  kindsvater 13 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Bill Farnham
  
  Things have changed a bit since that video.
  
  Yep.
  
  And a top copywriter who reached the pinnacle of his profession by excelling in mailed direct copy does not automatically mean they will have the same level of success using other media - such as the Internet.
  
  Their experience is not necessarily everyone's experience. Just as someone who excels online but not so much with physical mail, who opines snail mail is not as effective as the Internet.
  
  After all, if the Internet was the "least effective way to sell" then Borders would probably not be going out of business - but would instead be opening more physical stores.
  
  .
  
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  John Broberg 13 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by kindsvater
  
  Yep.
  
  And a top copywriter who reached the pinnacle of his profession by excelling in mailed direct copy ...
  
  .
  
  Gary's gift wasn't just writing mailed letters (although he was a pro); he had the mindset of working from what works to get response.
  
  Towards the end of his life, he commonly used print media (like newspaper and magazine ads) to drive traffic to his website.
  
  Think about the power of this.
  
  If you're targeting a keyword like "Pool Installation Services Del Mar" then couldn't you cheaply and easily take out some ads in Del Mar papers directing them to your client's website?
  
  Who here has dropped loads of money on Google Adwords, article writers, press releases, and other online traffic sources without considering a cheap newspaper classified?
  
  You can still order the ad through the internet without physically going to the newspaper office. It's still done online, yet most internet marketers won't even include it in their mindset.
  
  Are you using your money effectively?
  
  Think about it.
  
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pursley56

13 years ago

I can agree with that. Offline is more effective then Online. There are so many people that are not on the internet and when they see advertisements offline that suggest you go online they will do it, in order to pay a bill or activate a gift card they received.
I was telling my mother-in-law about working from home. She does not know how to turn on a computer, but when I showed her how much she can get paid, she got my niece laptop and started learning to get on and off. Lol. She said she want to make some money and she's willing to learn. She's even thinking about getting an internet service.

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Mike Hill

13 years ago

It would be brilliant if you started offline, mailing to a rented list from NextMark or the SRDS and then moved those people online with the promise of instant delivery (instant gratification).

I'll actually be doing some of that in the near future.

PS. R.I.P. Gary

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BillyBee

13 years ago

I know that people love to worship Gary Halbert (I'm a fan myself, albeit from the back pew), but sometimes he had a habit of delivering unsubstantiated pronouncements that were pretty out there.

For instance, we have to take his word that a direct mail piece will outsell an email pitch by 20 times. Really? Wouldn't mind seeing the documentation on that, not to mention the context.

He also says the Internet is "the worst way to sell ever devised by man." He ranks it below sky-writing!

He also "feels sorry" for anyone using autoresponders. I think his sympathy is a bit misplaced given the number of people on this forum who are surely earning six-figure incomes based on their autoresponders.

I also once heard him say that it's better to offer less payment options to reduce choice. He literally said it was better to make people pay only with a Visa card than to offer Visa, MasterCard, Discover, and American Express. Um, okay.

That said, I acknowledge his legendary status and I love the treasure trove that his online newsletter represents (although I can't find Jewfish Creek on Google Maps).

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murtuza

13 years ago

yes, that's actually true, it is a touch and feel world where people like to hold the products in their hand and then decide the value of the product. The digital products do not give this kind of environment.

I have a friend who operates a match making site who tried to promote his site completely with online medium and he failed. Now what he does is that he has kept his website just to communicate and get the leads to his match making site and he operates and markets the site completely offline thru news papers and physical phone calls and he improved his business because of the touch and feel comfort he gave his clients.

However people are making brilliant money online but the conversions can improve tremendously if you give your subscribers a feel that you are a real person operating and you are ready to help them out with a solution to their problem. One of my friend who operates a website in the IM world boosts up his conversion rate when he mails out to his list and offers them personal help every now and then and promises them to answer their questions personally via email. He also does monthly free teleseminar calls for his subscribers just to solve their questions and this boosts his conversion rate to a lot extent and his email responsive rate.

So I guess you can be the best of both worlds. Operate online but also show your prospects you are a real guy and ready to communicate with them when they are in need...

Murtuza

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Brian John 13 years ago

his last line in that vid says it all..."it doesn't matter how much something costs, it matters what your return on investment is".
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seobro

13 years ago

He is 100% right on. I love face to face because it gives me results that are super. Also, I like to talk on the phone and that is also effective to convince users. Sadly, on the internet I have a low conversion.

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Chris Sorrell 13 years ago

I think he's got some pretty good points here. How many times do you hear people say stuff like 'Ye, but how many 'affiliate marketing' or 'make money online' publications do you see in magazine stores?'

And so that justifies them sticking to building a list or selling stuff purely through online means and they're missing the point by a country mile. The point being that 'internet markteting' is just a load of nonsense, and that it can be all categorized as 'direct response' marketing. And of course, that magazine store that that's full of biz opp based newspapers and magazines suddenly seems a little more relavent.

I see ads in the biz opp sections of national newspapers every day here in the UK and they're the same ones that have been running for years. It's just an ad that takes you to a squeeze page that's giving something away for a 'limited time' etc and then the page redirects to a paid offer once you've signed up. I can't imagine the money that person must be making not only off that oto but the huge lists they must be cashing in on.
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Joshua Rigley

Banned 13 years ago

One of the things I love about the WarriorForum is that nothing is taken as gospel truth in regards to Internet Marketing, even if it's from a well known and respected marketer.

Thanks everyone for adding a grain of salt to Gary's advice.

With that said, I've noticed that my local newspaper's (which has a circulation of over 60,000 people) classified ads section has absolutely no ads for running an online business, under "biz opportunities".

I wonder if starting offline in this kind of manner would actually be the best way for newbies to start. That is, start small offline and grow online.

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Chris Sorrell

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Joshua Rigley

One of the things I love about the WarriorForum is that nothing is taken as gospel truth in regards to Internet Marketing, even if it's from a well known and respected marketer.

Thanks everyone for adding a grain of salt to Gary's advice.

With that said, I've noticed that my local newspaper's (which has a circulation of over 60,000 people) classified ads section has absolutely no ads for running an online business, under "biz opportunities".

I wonder if starting offline in this kind of manner would actually be the best way for newbies to start. That is, start small offline and grow online.

Exactly, it's a pretty simple process but too many people seems to obsess over 'internet' marketing and that 'WOW, facebook has 500m users blablalala', now I gotta go buy this fb guide to tell me how to get money off people who are wasting time at work and will never buy anything off some piddly fanpage, or give a damn about anything you say, but hey ho, leave them to it.

People should go and check out Gene Schwartz's biz opp sales copy for newspapers etc. Pure gold. Would work really well for 'internet marketers'. But I doubt many will because they won't be able to 'like' it or download it as an app, because hey, they're 'internet marketers'.

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Bill Farnham

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Joshua Rigley

With that said, I've noticed that my local newspaper's (which has a circulation of over 60,000 people) classified ads section has absolutely no ads for running an online business, under "biz opportunities".

I wonder if starting offline in this kind of manner would actually be the best way for newbies to start. That is, start small offline and grow online.

Joshua,

Do this exercise...call up the local paper and price an ad. In most cases the newspaper ad will seem completely out of whack price wise with what you can advertise online for.

Not only do you limit yourself to a specific locality, but you'll find only a small fraction of the people who pick up that newspaper will ever see your ad. Your ad will be placed under a 'heading' as opposed to keyword targeted.

Huge difference in cost per lead if the newspaper prices their ads high. Your $200 a week or month ad may get you 3 leads and next to no velocity.

But don't take my word for it, your locality may be priced completely different than my locality. But the phone call to your local newspaper is free.

~Bill

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BillyBee

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Bill Farnham

Joshua,

Do this exercise...call up the local paper and price an ad. In most cases the newspaper ad will seem completely out of whack price wise with what you can advertise online for.

Not only do you limit yourself to a specific locality, but you'll find only a small fraction of the people who pick up that newspaper will ever see your ad. Your ad will be placed under a 'heading' as opposed to keyword targeted.

Huge difference in cost per lead if the newspaper prices their ads high. Your $200 a week or month ad may get you 3 leads and next to no velocity.

But don't take my word for it, your locality may be priced completely different than my locality. But the phone call to your local newspaper is free.

~Bill

Everyone talks about how great newspaper classified must be, but how many people are even reading newspapers anymore? There's a reason they're going out of business --- and I say that as an avid newspaper reader. I read 2 or three papers a day myself (the real paper kind, not online).

Display ads in the right situation might be a different story. I'd love to hear if someone has direct experience with classifieds because I'd love to be wrong about my feeling that they are a longshot.

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Joshua Rigley

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by BillyBee

Everyone talks about how great newspaper classified must be, but how many people are even reading newspapers anymore? There's a reason they're going out of business --- and I say that as an avid newspaper reader. I read 2 or three papers a day myself (the real paper kind, not online).

Display ads in the right situation might be a different story. I'd love to hear if someone has direct experience with classifieds because I'd love to be wrong about my feeling that they are a longshot.

My local newspaper is certainly trying to adapt. They're using QRCodes, and launched several website services (one to find jobs, one to find homes, one to find cars, one for local auctions, etc.) and of course they have a website.

I read that newspaper every day myself. I read the front page, the national/international headlines, the opinion section, the business section, and most importantly of all, the comics.

I don't know how much longer newspapers will last in their current form, but I have no doubt they'll survive in some form or another. Like as an iPad app, or a kindle service.

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myob

13 years ago

Originally Posted by BillyBee

I'd love to hear if someone has direct experience with classifieds because I'd love to be wrong about my feeling that they are a longshot.

Advertising in the small regional newspapers, "pennysavers", and specialized magazines still pull very well. I use nationwideclassifieds.com for small classified ads and select magazines through magazines.com for display ads and even article submissions. These work especially well around the holidays and special events for Amazon and Clickbank affiliate products.

It seems onliners have no idea how miniscule in comparison the online market really is, as there is a huge offline market that is still largely untapped. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, offline promotions generates over 60% of my sales. Just makes sense to me to keep using both.

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BillyBee

13 years ago

Originally Posted by myob

Advertising in the small regional newspapers, "pennysavers", and specialized magazines still pull very well. I use nationwideclassifieds.com for small classified ads and select magazines through magazines.com for display ads and even article submissions. These work especially well around the holidays and special events for Amazon and Clickbank affiliate products.

It seems onliners have no idea how miniscule in comparison the online market really is, as there is a huge offline market that is still largely untapped. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, offline promotions generates over 60% of my sales. Just makes sense to me to keep using both.

Wow, this is encouraging! I certainly can't argue with your results.

On your article submissions to print magazines: Are they okay with a URL in your resource box at the end of the piece? Do you make that a stipulation? How do you handle that with print magazines?

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myob 13 years ago

I always get at least a byline with my name and contact email, which in itself opens up many doors by using reprints. Depending on the magazine or the editor, you can often squeeze in a url with a few words, but it is strictly non-promotional. Most magazines also have online components, which lends an additional leverage level of implied endorsement when promoting products to persnickety people.
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Joshua Rigley

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Bill Farnham

Joshua,

Do this exercise...call up the local paper and price an ad. In most cases the newspaper ad will seem completely out of whack price wise with what you can advertise online for.

Not only do you limit yourself to a specific locality, but you'll find only a small fraction of the people who pick up that newspaper will ever see your ad. Your ad will be placed under a 'heading' as opposed to keyword targeted.

Huge difference in cost per lead if the newspaper prices their ads high. Your $200 a week or month ad may get you 3 leads and next to no velocity.

But don't take my word for it, your locality may be priced completely different than my locality. But the phone call to your local newspaper is free.

~Bill

Last I checked with them, it's $20/week for a 4-line ad. Plus it's posted online and ran in a couple of issues of their magazine.

As for the targeting, you'd simply need to sell a product with mass appeal. For example, weight loss.

Of course, people have posted in this forum with considerable success with advertising in classified ads. One example I can think of was a guy who offered to do free web design for people who bought hostgator's service through his affiliate link.

I probably won't pursue it though.

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pbdollars

13 years ago

Originally Posted by SpikeS

This isn't another "the internet is on its knees" thread.

Rather, I came across this interesting Gary Halbert video on YT:

‪Gary Halbert: Live at The System - Triple Your Response‬&rlm; - YouTube

Where he reasons why "offline" is becoming more effective because of the increase in internet usage.

Interesting viewpoint, from an acomplished marketer. (if you dont know who gary halbert is, go look him up)

Should be a good reminder for those starting businesses not to neglect offline stuff..

P.S: For those of you making large amounts of money online and thinking "yeah whatever, I just made a gazillion dollars with one email", maybe you should try apply yourself offline as well..

very good video. Thank you for sharing

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"Internet Is Least Effective Way To Sell" - Gary Halbert

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