Best Article Spinning Guidelines?

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by ckweb

2. Is there a general % the article should be spun by?

Like so many professional article marketers here, I always think zero's a very good percentage, myself ... this thread explains a lot of stuff about "spinning", including why so many of us think it's often valueless and based primarily on fallacies and mistaken beliefs about "the duplicate content myth".

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Britt Malka

13 years ago

Hi ck

These are the guidelines I stick to, and they work for me.

1. What is the best way to spin articles?

The best way to spin articles is not to spin them. It's boring as h...ickups, and what's the purpose of it? If you want readable stuff, write articles. If you want visitors that stay on your page long enough to perform the action, you want from them, then write readable stuff.

2. Is there a general % the article should be spun by?

Yes, 0%.

3. How many articles should I create for 55 sites?

It depends. I would write an article a day for each site until I obtained the desired amount of targetted traffic.

4. Any other tips or general rules?

There are LOTS of quality threads here on article marketing. You should search for "article marketing" and see what experienced article marketers like Alexa and Bill Platt and others have to say about it.

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tpw

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Britt Malka

There are LOTS of quality threads here on article marketing. You should search for "article marketing" and see what experienced article marketers like Alexa and Bill Platt and others have to say about it.

LOL I was going to defer to the thread by Brian Kindsvater about that. Maybe Alexa has the link, because I don't.

If you are going to spin --- most people who ask these questions won't consider doing article marketing any other way --- then make sure that you have full rights to the base article.

Don't take someone else's content and try to spin it, because you could face copyright infringement lawsuits if you were to use other people's content as your foundation. (That is the thread I was going to refer to, the one where Brian Kindsvater, the Internet Attorney, explained this in detail.)

I could give you one hundred reasons not to spin articles, but if you are dedicated to doing so, I would be wasting my breath.

Thanks

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Publish Coloring Books for Profit (WSOTD 7-30-2015)

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NicoleBeckett

13 years ago

The best advice? Do it manually. And by that, I don't mean manually fill out the brackets and whatever else spinner machines are using. I mean sitting down and actually rewriting something by hand.

While Alexa's right - duplicate content (in the way that most people think of it) is a myth - but there are still times when you need to change your content. Maybe you bought PLR that you want to change up and publish on your website or send to your email list. Maybe you outsourced your content and it didn't live up to your expectations, and you need to rewrite it. In any event, you'll never get the results you want by shoving it through a spinner. There's nothing better than your brain and some good ol' fashioned skill.

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tpw 13 years ago

Originally Posted by NicoleBeckett

There's nothing better than your brain and some good ol' fashioned skill.

I would change only one word of what you said Nicole...

Skill isn't always necessary... So replace "skill" with "effort".
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Ettienne

13 years ago

You are all writing manually? Woah, okay...

Article spinners are great, but the "1 click autospin" tools out there are crap, it simply doesn't look human. I suggest getting Brad Callen's article spinner, okay that takes LOOONG for a 500 word article as you do it manually word for word, picking only words that make sense of course (naturally this takes an hour or two per article)

The beauty of it is, you can create 1000 articles that all match less than 20% which is good. Trust me on this one, your article DON'T need to be 0%, that's just crazy and not possible no matter what spinner you use.

I'm an editor for a new article directory, K-Infoweb (google it, post there

and we publish all articles that makes sense, it should be readable and of value to your visitors.

However, if your article is 70% or above we add a "noindex" tag to it, meaning the search engines don't even bother visiting the page and your links are 100% useless, wasted effort.

If your article is 69% or below, it gets published and your links count. Every article directory works differently of course, but I'd say if you have a spun article of 30% or below (which makes sense) you're good

Hope that helps,
Ettienne

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NicoleBeckett

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Ettienne

I suggest getting Brad Callen's article spinner, okay that takes LOOONG for a 500 word article as you do it manually word for word, picking only words that make sense of course (naturally this takes an hour or two per article)

Holy moly... I can't even imagine spending an hour or 2 spinning something

I can rewrite an article by hand in about 15 or 20 minutes - and it comes out reading much better than anything that's going to come out of even the best of spinners.

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Alexa Smith Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Ettienne

Trust me on this one, your article DON'T need to be 0%, that's just crazy and not possible no matter what spinner you use.

You have misunderstood all of us, Ettienne.

We said 0% ("no need to do it at all"), not 100% ("spin totally so that nothing's the same").
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tpw 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Ettienne

You are all writing manually? Woah, okay...

Well yeah.... Some of us have exceptional reputations as talented writers...

Why would we waste the talent God has given us?

Besides, most of us do article marketing for more reasons than just getting Google's attention... :p
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ebusinessireader

13 years ago

I really hope that it will be spun from the writings of your own.
And I agree with many comments above.

To produce quality work. The most sustainable way.

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warriorjohn1444

Banned 13 years ago

Soon Google is going to crack down on article spinner and you wouldn't want to be caught unawares.

A lot of things have changed today about internet marketing, you don't really need to bother yourself about spinning articles. I would rather use that time i devote to spin article into writing another article.

Why spin articles when a single article can be published on thousands of article directories and web. 2.0 site without changing a word.

Spinning creates a lot of errors and make article unreadable and webmaster are not happy about receiving junks content anymore.

Save time and move on.

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Hackbridge

13 years ago

There is a WSO by Kingsley going on at the moment. It might I daresay initially tell you why you want to look at how and why you need to spin articles?

It's over 300 pages long, so it must be pretty insightful.

Brian

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Glenn Leader

13 years ago

I have spun content, on the same website doing very well indeed! Not all spun
content is bad, and I would go as far as saying some content can be superior
in quality to that of the original. The secret is to write your alternate phrases
yourself, or at least eliminate bad automated content prior to spinning.

Nearly everybody who has condemned spinning has an article writing service,
so is it any wonder that they don't like the concept.

HTH

Glenn

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robbiestone 13 years ago

I use TheBestSpinner and spin every word i can, making sure the sentence makes complete sense by reading back at the bottom of the software what it would produce

Never had any issues and find a good many are indexed very easily
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tpw

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Glenn Leader

Not all spun content is bad, and I would go as far as saying some content can be superior in quality to that of the original. The secret is to write your alternate phrases yourself, or at least eliminate bad automated content prior to spinning.

The quality of spun content depends on the commitment of the person doing the spinning to create quality content.

It is simply that most people who undertake spinning content are looking for shortcuts, and they often sacrifice quality to achieve the shortcut.

Originally Posted by Glenn Leader

Nearly everybody who has condemned spinning has an article writing service, so is it any wonder that they don't like the concept.

This is not exactly fair or honest.

I have only had a writing service available for the last week and a half, after having discontinued my previous writing services in 2008. I have been opposed to article spinning for years.

See my comment above.

I believe that as marketers, we have an obligation to contribute positively to the quality of content on the Internet.

Those who contribute garbage content makes the whole process of marketing more difficult for the whole... Especially when you see so many non-marketers complaining about how marketers create so much trash content...

If the public was not seeing so much junk, you would not hear them complaining...

Unfortunately, they do see too much junk, and they complain about junk to those they know are marketers. People blame all marketers for the crap created by those who are engaged in creating crap.

So, the more pertinent question is not whether someone is engaged in spinning content or not...

The more important question is whether you are engaged in creating "good quality content" or more garbage content?

I know that you and Kurt spin content and get irritated at people who speak against it.

But, I am not speaking against people who spin content. I am speaking against people who create crap content.

The whole community benefits when those of us who teach others make it a point to teach others to focus on delivering quality and real value to our readers -- those people who are finding our content online.

There is nothing wrong with spinning, as long as "quality content" is the intended output. Anything short of that should be discouraged, and I discourage it frequently.

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Alexa Smith

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by tpw

Originally Posted by Glenn Leader

Nearly everybody who has condemned spinning has an article writing service, so is it any wonder that they don't like the concept.

This is not exactly fair or honest.

I have only had a writing service available for the last week and a half, after having discontinued my previous writing services in 2008. I have been opposed to article spinning for years.

Wow, "not exactly fair or honest" was putting it mildly and tactfully.

Alright, I'll do the same then, and add that in my opinion, too, it's not even remotely fair, and it also isn't even remotely true.

Anyone here can look through all the threads in which professional article marketers explain all our reasons for not spinning, and for advising others not to (albeit that that's a very big number of threads!), and see for themselves that very, very few are running writing services.

For the record, I don't have a writing service. I haven't had one for a long time. I get asked about once a day here if I'll "write for people" and have been politely declining, always, for a year and a half, now. (And I wouldn't say that in public if there were any risk at all of anyone contradicting me, obviously. There is nobody here, or anywhere else, for whom I've written anything - sales copy or articles - for over a year and a half).

I have plenty of experience of article marketing both with and without spinning and - like so many of the successful article marketers here - have now been opposed to spinning for a long time and am frankly embarrassed that I ever did it at all.

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NicoleBeckett

13 years ago

Well said Bill! (and Alexa who posted as I was typing!)

The #1 goal should be to produce content that's useful to your target audience. However you go about getting there is up to you. Personally, I've never found a spinner that worked faster or better than my own brain. And, unfortunately, too many people use spinners to save time and, in doing so, litter the internet with more junk. It's simply a tool that probably started with good intentions, but has gotten blown to bits by laziness.

Out of curiosity, for all of the people who claim that spinning is just as effective as rewriting by hand, I'd love to see some before and after articles

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Aaron Siegel

13 years ago

Originally Posted by NicoleBeckett

Well said Bill! (and Alexa who posted as I was typing!)

The #1 goal should be to produce content that's useful to your target audience. However you go about getting there is up to you. Personally, I've never found a spinner that worked faster or better than my own brain. And, unfortunately, too many people use spinners to save time and, in doing so, litter the internet with more junk. It's simply a tool that probably started with good intentions, but has gotten blown to bits by laziness.

Out of curiosity, for all of the people who claim that spinning is just as effective as rewriting by hand, I'd love to see some before and after articles

I agree. They can promise the world, but I have yet to see one auto spun article not turn into complete junk.

Thanks

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sappacis13 13 years ago

The best thing I do when submitting also an article is to sign-up for wordpress.com account as well as blog.com.

Because it has a feature where you can authenticate your website under tools, google webmaster account.

This could be a big plus for SEO purposes.

So happy spinning with your own article.

Regards!
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Kurt

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Glenn Leader

Nearly everybody who has condemned spinning has an article writing service,
so is it any wonder that they don't like the concept.

HTH

Glenn

Originally Posted by tpw

This is not exactly fair or honest.

I have only had a writing service available for the last week and a half, after having discontinued my previous writing services in 2008. I have been opposed to article spinning for years.

See my comment above.

I believe that as marketers, we have an obligation to contribute positively to the quality of content on the Internet.

Those who contribute garbage content makes the whole process of marketing more difficult for the whole... Especially when you see so many non-marketers complaining about how marketers create so much trash content...

If the public was not seeing so much junk, you would not hear them complaining...

Unfortunately, they do see too much junk, and they complain about junk to those they know are marketers. People blame all marketers for the crap created by those who are engaged in creating crap.

So, the more pertinent question is not whether someone is engaged in spinning content or not...

The more important question is whether you are engaged in creating "good quality content" or more garbage content?

I know that you and Kurt spin content and get irritated at people who speak against it.

But, I am not speaking against people who spin content. I am speaking against people who create crap content.

The whole community benefits when those of us who teach others make it a point to teach others to focus on delivering quality and real value to our readers -- those people who are finding our content online.

There is nothing wrong with spinning, as long as "quality content" is the intended output. Anything short of that should be discouraged, and I discourage it frequently.

Glenn's comment is the EXACT SAME ad hominem fallacy Alexa uses over and over and over. She has attacked me personally as well as others using the same (lack of) logic as Glenn did above.

I'm sure Glenn was just responding in a manner he's accustomed to seeing Alexa use repeatedly by claiming that if you are any way making money from a topic your only motivation is money when speaking about that subject.

She also has attacked people that defend spinning based on having affiliate links to spinners in their sigs, so I fail to see the difference between Glenn's comments and Alexa's.

I've asked her politely to stop using the ad hominem fallacy to attack the credibility of others, but it seems she's refused, as I saw another similar post from her yesterday(?).

Logic dictates that an argument should be based on the points of that argument, not any perceived bias due to making money from related services.

Just because Bill has a writing service doesn't mean his points aren't valid. However, I would like the very same respect from Alexa...Just because I spin and sell SEO related stuff, doesn't mean my points aren't valid. Same exact thing.

Logic and fairness should also dictate that you point out to Alexa when she uses the same unfair and dishonest ad hominem attacks on those that disagree with her points.

Let's be fair and honest..As marketers we should be aware that making money is fairly low on the motivation totem pole, when discussing the psychology of people. This is according to people like Freud, Dale Carnegie and Tony Robbins.

The main motivation is ego, according to these folks, more specifically acceptance and appreciation. So if we want to make a conclusion about posts and any bias, let's start with ego as the main bias. What this leaves us is everyone has a need to feel wanted as the bias for their posts.

BTW Bill, I agree about bad content. But let's add that bad content isn't restricted to spun content. I've read plenty of BS articles that I assume weren't spun. No meat. All fluff.

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tpw

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Kurt

Logic and fairness should also dictate that you point out to Alexa when she uses the same unfair and dishonest ad hominem attacks on those that disagree with her points.

I have been known to take disagreement with Alexa and other article marketers here at the forum, on occasion.

I take a stand against ideas I dislike, when I am moved to do so, but not always when other people want me to do so. Sorry.

But if I posted against every argument I dislike, every time I see it, then you would see me in every thread and every third post!! :p

I disagree with you now and again as well, and I frequently choose to let it pass without comment.

There is nothing wrong with choosing silence over disagreement or agreement, when it suits you to do so.

Originally Posted by Kurt

BTW Bill, I agree about bad content. But let's add that bad content isn't restricted to spun content. I've read plenty of BS articles that I assume weren't spun. No meat. All fluff.

Yep, I have seen some pretty crappy content written without a spinner too... And then they use that content to spin out thousands of additional copies.

Just kidding...

But yeah, the absence of a spinner in the process is not enough to guarantee good quality.

The only thing actually required to create good quality is a commitment from the author to provide value to his/her readers.

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Johnny Cakes

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Kurt

Glenn's comment is the EXACT SAME ad hominem fallacy Alexa uses over and over and over. She has attacked me personally as well as others using the same (lack of) logic as Glenn did above.

I'm sure Glenn was just responding in a manner he's accustomed to seeing Alexa use repeatedly by claiming that if you are any way making money from a topic your only motivation is money when speaking about that subject.

She also has attacked people that defend spinning based on having affiliate links to spinners in their sigs, so I fail to see the difference between Glenn's comments and Alexa's.

I've asked her politely to stop using the ad hominem fallacy to attack the credibility of others, but it seems she's refused, as I saw another similar post from her yesterday(?).

Logic dictates that an argument should be based on the points of that argument, not any perceived bias due to making money from related services.

Just because Bill has a writing service doesn't mean his points aren't valid. However, I would like the very same respect from Alexa...Just because I spin and sell SEO related stuff, doesn't mean my points aren't valid. Same exact thing.

Logic and fairness should also dictate that you point out to Alexa when she uses the same unfair and dishonest ad hominem attacks on those that disagree with her points.

Let's be fair and honest..As marketers we should be aware that making money is fairly low on the motivation totem pole, when discussing the psychology of people. This is according to people like Freud, Dale Carnegie and Tony Robbins.

The main motivation is ego, according to these folks, more specifically acceptance and appreciation. So if we want to make a conclusion about posts and any bias, let's start with ego as the main bias. What this leaves us is everyone has a need to feel wanted as the bias for their posts.

BTW Bill, I agree about bad content. But let's add that bad content isn't restricted to spun content. I've read plenty of BS articles that I assume weren't spun. No meat. All fluff.

I don't understand where you are coming from. If Alexa Smith does not promote a service that would benefit from certain comments here about spinning or rewriting articles with software, where's the problem? It appears she has nothing to gain one way or the other from expressing a belief on this subject.

You, on the other hand, seem to have some vested interest from what I read above. So, not knowing either you, her comments would appear to be more objective on this topic.

Wouldn't you say?

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myob 13 years ago

Never try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and it annoys the pig.

- Robert Heinlein
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Glenn Leader

13 years ago

Originally Posted by NicoleBeckett

Well said Bill! (and Alexa who posted as I was typing!)

The #1 goal should be to produce content that's useful to your target audience. However you go about getting there is up to you. Personally, I've never found a spinner that worked faster or better than my own brain. And, unfortunately, too many people use spinners to save time and, in doing so, litter the internet with more junk. It's simply a tool that probably started with good intentions, but has gotten blown to bits by laziness.

Out of curiosity, for all of the people who claim that spinning is just as effective as rewriting by hand, I'd love to see some before and after articles

You already have seen spun content, and probably not realised it

Thanks

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Aaron Siegel

13 years ago

Originally Posted by ckweb

I am getting ready to start doing some major testing on the effect of Web 2.0 Properties linking to niche sites.

I have grabbed a list of about 55 Top Web 2.0 Properties. Now I need to get some articles ready for these sites.

I am planning to write a handful o articles and then have them spun. My questions are:

1. What is the best way to spin articles?
2. Is there a general % the article should be spun by?
3. How many articles should I create for 55 sites?
4. Any other tips or general rules?

Thanks.

When I DID spin. I would rewrite each sentence 3 additional times. That is all the way down the line. Once I had a 1,500 page article, yup. Ouch. I think I am going to just focus on writing one good article and just distribute it. Drip vs. Mass? Everyone says drip.

Thanks

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Aaron Siegel

13 years ago

P.S. Not to scare anyone, but Google is watching you and your articles.

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