BEWARE if You Sell Physical Items Targeted To CHILDREN

[CWreports]

Wow! I just read about this earlier today. While it's not a niche of mine, I wondered if anyone here would be impacted.

It's definitely a doozy.

On February 10 2009 a new law goes into effect for anyone selling physical items for children under the age of 13. Each item must be tested for lead content and you must provide a certificate showing the item has been tested and is safe.

From what I gather this new law covers any and everything that is for kids; games, toys, books, clothing, furniture, jewelry etc.

The new law also makes no distinction of new, imported, recycled or used items. They must all undergo testing.

If this is a niche you're involved with, I suggest you familiarize yourself with the new law as non-compliance is a felony with some very stiff fines per occurrence.

For more info go HERE
A good article can be found HERE

[TLTheLiberator]

Thanks for the tip.

Now I'm making sure I stay away for products aimed at kids.

Digital products, especially affiliate products are for me.

TL

[CWreports]

I don't know if you read the article I linked to, but I wondered about
people who sell on Ebay or through classified ads who certainly won't
be aware of this law. Amazon supposedly already has taken action and
notified most of their suppliers.

Like I said in the OP..it's a doozy.

Carol

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

Thanks for the tip.

Now I'm making sure I stay away for products aimed at kids.

Digital products, especially affiliate products are for me.

TL

[Teresa Coppes]

While I completely agree that the safety of our kids should be of the utmost importance - the wording and dynamics of the new law will have disastrous consequences for a lot of companies whether big or small.

Scary!

[CWreports]

Teresa,

You're absolutely correct...it is scary.

Another thing that stood out in the article concerned the libraries. They will have to certify or ensure certification of every book geared toward the under-13 age group.

Carol

Originally Posted by Teresa_C

While I completely agree that the safety of our kids should be of the utmost importance - the wording and dynamics of the new law will have disastrous consequences for a lot of companies whether big or large.

Scary!

[Dan C. Rinnert]

What about digital info products intended for children? I would presume that inkjet printers and paper would not be considered as being marketed to children and would thus not be tested, so if digital product sellers encourage parents to print out content on their home computers, would they incur any liability for encouraging the parents to do so on those untested items?

[CWreports]

You know what Dan? I really don't know the answer to your question. It's
very possible that question was answered in the documentation provided
at the official .gov site I linked to in the OP.

But since you mentioned it somewhat...what about all those computers,
printers and digital accessories that end up in schools or various training
facilities. I'd certainly think they would have to be tested!!

That's just another reason how this can be a detriment to a lot of businesses.

Carol

Originally Posted by Dan C. Rinnert

What about digital info products intended for children? I would presume that inkjet printers and paper would not be considered as being marketed to children and would thus not be tested, so if digital product sellers encourage parents to print out content on their home computers, would they incur any liability for encouraging the parents to do so on those untested items?

[GarrieWilson]

Blame China.

The bad thing, this law wont stop foreign manufactures. They ignored the previous laws and will this one or forge tests.

[Bill Farnham]

This is just one more case of needless overkill.

I would venture to guess that most people are not aware that many "laws" here in the States are written by lobbyists and rubber stamped by the legislators and their staffs.

Hence, it is almost always about control and the redistribution of monies vs what is truly in the publics' best interest.

One of the products sold on my website is a specialty butter that is made in Europe and imported into the States in bulk by one of my distributors. In order for me to ship that butter to Canada I have to provide the Canadian Customs agents with a certificate of good health for the calf from the doctor that oversaw the birth of the calf which now is grown and producing the milk the butter is made from.

Needless to say, even though I sell a lot of that butter Stateside I don't ship it to our good friends up north.

Sheesh...

KJ

[Chris Vendilli]

Great post. Thanks for posting this, it's helpful to a lot of people.

[Josh Anderson]

I guess second hand stores will have to enact policies that no one under the age of 13 may buy or use their toys :-)

If the law is really that broad and vague I think our lawmakers have been eating led based paint chips with their corn flakes.

[Teresa Coppes]

Originally Posted by scorpion896

Good why not put more safety into our kids?

No one is disputing that there is a need to keep our kids safe. We're already in a recession (more like a depression actually) and because of how the law was worded it will begin a very rapid downward spiral for many companies - even if they were compliant all along.

As another poster mentioned, who's to say that even if WalMart gets a certificate from a product made in China that it won't be forged?

[CWreports]

Garrie
Blame China.

The bad thing, this law wont stop foreign manufactures. They ignored the previous laws and will this one or forge tests.

Garrie, I hear you. But from what I gather, with the new law the onus is on the end seller. If you don't have a certification from the foreign manufacturer and cannot obtain one, then you as a vendor cannot legally sell it...bummer for sure.

KillerJoe
One of the products sold on my website is a specialty butter that is made in Europe and imported into the States in bulk by one of my distributors. In order for me to ship that butter to Canada I have to provide the Canadian Customs agents with a certificate of good health for the calf from the doctor that oversaw the birth of the calf which now is grown and producing the milk the butter is made from.

Needless to say, even though I sell a lot of that butter Stateside I don't ship it to our good friends up north.

Sheesh...

KillerJoe, That's funny...one has to wonder what is the true purpose behind some of these rules/laws. I think you touched on it but the more I look at this the more inane it becomes. It's almost as if they're intentionally making it almost impossible for some to do business at all. Who really knows? I'm just floored by this and the impact it will have.

Josh
I guess second hand stores will have to enact policies that no one under the age of 13 may buy or use their toys :-)

Hi Josh, not only second hand stores, think about all those garage sales in the summer..flea markets, antique shops..

Teresa
No one is disputing that there is a need to keep our kids safe. We're already in a recession (more like a depression actually) and because of how the law was worded it will begin a very rapid downward spiral for many companies - even if they were compliant all along.

Teresa, How true. This is going to have a downward snowball effect on many many companies both on-line and off-line.

Carol

[GarrieWilson]

Originally Posted by Josh Anderson

I guess second hand stores will have to enact policies that no one under the age of 13 may buy or use their toys :-)

According to that article, that wont matter. They still can't sell it w/out a certificate because its geared towards children. They used a rare childrens book as an example.

Think about antique toys.

I know a woman who runs a big consignment sale once a year where people bring in kids clothes. Now she can't do that. Her normal business is a 2nd hand store for kids clothes. Use to be big bucks.

[MikeAmbrosio]

Originally Posted by GarrieWilson

Blame China.

The bad thing, this law wont stop foreign manufactures. They ignored the previous laws and will this one or forge tests.

Exactly.

Merchants will get blamed and once again must shoulder all the responsibility and associated costs (which will be passed to consumers) because of greedy and/or stupid manufacturers.

Another shining example of our "brilliant" law makers directing new laws at the wrong people because of scumbags.

It's another form of tax, cause I am sure there will be fines imposed for "offenders".

Ridiculous...

[CWreports]

Mike,

From the article

How bad can the punishment be? For selling books? Up to $100,000 PER ITEM and up to five years in jail. It’s also a felony. Get busted, you may lose your right to vote in some states. Even if you can fight it in court, you’ll likely go broke doing so and your local newspaper will carry the headline “Local business selling lead tainted goods”… even though you know they aren’t. Good luck getting them to print the retraction months or years later after that PR disaster.

That kind of punishment could potentially wipe out a small business owner.


Carol

Originally Posted by MikeAmbrosio

Exactly.

It's another form of tax, cause I am sure there will be fines imposed for "offenders".

Ridiculous...

[MikeAmbrosio]

Well, by and large, this is exactly the kind of idiotic "law" that merchants around the country need to get of their collective asses and shout about.

Loudly.

Aside from the fines, it opens up so many merchants to lawsuits by people who were hurt by lead in toys.

I agree we need to protect our children. But with laws like these, one day we'll have nothing to protect them with, or from.

[Shannon Tani]

I know a number of people that handmake things for children. Almost all are small-time, but making enough to support their families. They cannot afford the testing and will be out of business.

Booo. Big thumbs down for this law.

Love,
Shannon

[Tim Franklin]

Originally Posted by MikeAmbrosio

Well, by and large, this is exactly the kind of idiotic "law" that merchants around the country need to get of their collective asses and shout about.

Loudly.

Aside from the fines, it opens up so many merchants to lawsuits by people who were hurt by lead in toys.

I agree we need to protect our children. But with laws like these, one day we'll have nothing to protect them with, or from.

True, you have to wonder what kind of idiots we have elected to represent us in congress.

The real way to get their attention is to vote them out of office.

[Bill Farnham]

It's unfortunate, but the only full time job a legislator has these days is to raise money for re-election. They do not write the legislation, that is by and large done by paid lobbyists, they only vote on it based on how it will effect their ability to raise money.

They may sponsor it, but they very rarely are involved first hand in writing the provisions.

What this kind of legislation almost guarantees is that it will be put on hold while millions of dollars change hands as the attornies on each side of the issue banter back and forth about the merits of their side. This may happen either before or after a great deal of damage has already been done.

It's no wonder we have the kind of messes we currently have when you consider how little thought is given to actually accomplishing something of social value vs holding on to power and position.

Having said that, if this law sticks, a wide range of opportunities will open up for those that are ready to capitalize on them. This has always been the case, and will be so here.

KJ

[Dan C. Rinnert]

Originally Posted by Tim Franklin

The real way to get their attention is to vote them out of office.

Then they just get appointed to another position by one of their buddies...

[lansing]

I guess I am clueless.

My first thought was "I wonder who sells the test kits and do they have an affiliate program?"

[Dave777]

Thanks for that info! On the re-workable business side of things, could definitely be a variety of niche opportunities in CPSIA related info including public domain and domaining...

Here's another topic to seriously Think about...
DomainInformer : Food recalls - a domaining opportunity

Dave

[Dan C. Rinnert]

Originally Posted by lansing

I guess I am clueless.

My first thought was "I wonder who sells the test kits and do they have an affiliate program?"

Tests are estimated to cost between $100 and $4000 each. And, from what I've read, that's per product. Apparently, the way the law is written, if, for example, you make three sizes of clothes, all made from the same fabric, one of each size must be tested. That's three tests there. If you make another batch of clothes, then you have to do another round of tests.

And, from what I've been able to glean, even if you make a product from materials that have already been tested, your end product must still be tested.

Some small businesses just aren't going to be able to afford all that testing.

[Josh Anderson]

It's time to lobby for a law to make our lawmakers led free.

[Dan C. Rinnert]

Originally Posted by Dave777

Thanks for that info! On the re-workable business side of things, could definitely be a variety of niche opportunities in CPSIA related info including public domain and domaining...

Here's another topic to seriously Think about...
DomainInformer : Food recalls - a domaining opportunity

Dave

If you could develop an eBook like right now covering CSPIA issues, you could probably make a killing. There are tons of unanswered questions and, with about a month to go before the law takes effect, there still don't appear to be a lot of answers!

[Bill Farnham]

Originally Posted by Dan C. Rinnert

If you could develop an eBook like right now covering CSPIA issues, you could probably make a killing. There are tons of unanswered questions and, with about a month to go before the law takes effect, there still don't appear to be a lot of answers!

Dan,

It might be a little premature to come out with an ebook right now. There is no Case Law to help define the parameters at this point so it would be like hitting a moving target.

And this one will definitely be fodder for the courts.

KJ

[Dan C. Rinnert]

Originally Posted by Killer Joe

It might be a little premature to come out with an ebook right now. There is no Case Law to help define the parameters at this point so it would be like hitting a moving target.

True, and it appears that even the CPSC isn't quite sure of things either.

The problem is going to be that a lot of people don't want to be the test cases. When you wave around things like a $100,000 penalty per non-compliant product sold to children, a lot of people may be thinking, hey, forget the kid's stuff, let's make a porno...

Okay, maybe not that extreme. ;-)

[derekwong28]

This is simply a case of obvert protectionism, of which the real target is China. Just as China has used "health and safety" excuses to keep US agricultural imports out.

This is not the stuff we need right now. Protectionism was one of the factors behind the Great Depression.

Derek

[Floyd Fisher]

Did any of these fine lawmakers happen to notice products such as Sony Playstation, Nintendo Wii, vsmile, and god knows what else happen to contain massive amounts of lead?

It's called solder.....the stuff that holds all the electronics together.

Even idiots know this...why is it a mystery to 535 of the so-called smartest minds in America?

Oh well, good thing I don't sell products to kids...I'd lose my mind in about 15 seconds.

[TimothyW]

I don't see how this law will survive. I think it will be struck down -- and soon. Too devastating to the economy.

[Michael Oksa]

Couldn't anyone get around this by stating no sales to anyone under 13, and not intended for use by anyone under 13?

That baby rattle? No, it's a mini-maraca for adults!

And so on.

On the other hand, this could be abused by anyone looking to get wealthy through a lawsuit.

Think about it. What about ANY product purchased BEFORE February 10th? Someone could falsely claim they bought a lead-tainted product AFTER that date. But what about a receipt. All they have to do is claim they had no intention of returning the product, so they threw the receipt away.

And why the age of 13? Are 10, 11, and 12 year olds out there licking all of their toys? Just wondering.

All the best,
Michael

[amentajo]

Anytime, it regards children, it is better to be safe than sorry

[Floyd Fisher]

Originally Posted by amentajo

Anytime, it regards children, it is better to be safe than sorry

Hope you didn't buy them a Nintendo Wii for christmas...it contains massive amounts of lead.

[Dan C. Rinnert]

Originally Posted by amentajo

Anytime, it regards children, it is better to be safe than sorry

And that's the kind of thinking that created this mess.

Let's keep children safe, but how about we do so in a rational manner?

Otherwise, why not keep them locked away in padded rooms until they reach adulthood?

No one is arguing that children shouldn't be kept as reasonably safe as possible, but why add all the bureaucracy and testing on products that haven't posed an issue? As another poster mentioned, the problem originated with lead paint being used on cheap toys imported from China. There weren't any outbreaks of lead poisoning from parents buying second-hand kids' clothes.

We've already had, in the U.S., restrictions on the use of lead in products intended for children. Those products weren't the problem. But, those products are all going to have to go through testing now.

If the problems were foreign imports, why not just have a law that requires products for importation to meet the same lead-content requirements as domestically produced goods? Put the burden where the problem was, not where it wasn't.

[KristenArnold]

Wow- I am so impressed that this thread made it onto the Warrior Forum.. considering I found the WF when I was teaching myself IM to grow my baby product business!

As the mom of 4 wee ones and a "mom invented" product that is used for children I'm deep in the guts of all this, so I appreciate everyone being "aware" and "active" since it has been more of silent mover in the media!

I also just want to point out that there are tons of "gray" areas that we are still trying to understand. One includes that this is expected to encompass those small crafters at your local senior center or town craft fairs that sell handmade American Girl size doll clothes, wooden hand made puzzles.. think of the effects on the small people that do events for a little extra cash- the "offline Im" ers?

[Floyd Fisher]

Originally Posted by Michael Oksa

Couldn't anyone get around this by stating no sales to anyone under 13, and not intended for use by anyone under 13?

That baby rattle? No, it's a mini-maraca for adults!

And so on.

On the other hand, this could be abused by anyone looking to get wealthy through a lawsuit.

Think about it. What about ANY product purchased BEFORE February 10th? Someone could falsely claim they bought a lead-tainted product AFTER that date. But what about a receipt. All they have to do is claim they had no intention of returning the product, so they threw the receipt away.

And why the age of 13? Are 10, 11, and 12 year olds out there licking all of their toys? Just wondering.

All the best,
Michael

It's not just licking toys.

You expose any your extremities to lead, you need to wash them off immediately.

Handle lead, eat a hamburger, hello lead poisoning.

They figure 13 year olds are smart enough to wash before eating. Too bad our lawmakers don't seem to be.

[Alice Seba]

Originally Posted by Michael Oksa

Couldn't anyone get around this by stating no sales to anyone under 13, and not intended for use by anyone under 13?

Because once they are 13, they become disposable? Seriously, I haven't a clue.

The references I could find didn't seem to provide a clue and seem to indicate much younger children are generally affected.

Child Trends DataBank - Lead Poisoning
Childhood Lead Poisoning Prevention Program | Every Parent Fact Sheet_old | CDC
Understanding lead poisoning - Yale-New Haven Children's Hospital

As a generally concerned parent, this law is ridiculous. It doesn't affect my business at all, but as a parent, it's not something I would ask for. I think the parents that are concerned should get complimentary government-provided bubbles for their children. It'd probably be cheaper. :-)

By the way: I mean no offense to parents who may have been affected by lead-poisoning. I'm speaking in the grand scheme of things and whether or not this is generally necessary - because let's face it, these laws aren't going to fully protect children from what it is supposed to protect them from.

Alice

[NickiOZJ]

Here's another wrinkle... How will this affect resale shops and Thrift stores? Many of these places have children's items. Also with compliance being another expense to incur what will this do to prices? And with state of the economy... can we afford it? I think perhaps we should hold off enforcing this one a bit, or at least put in controls that allow smaller buisnesses to make reasonable concessions.

[Black Hat Cat]

You folks are crazy. Mama government is looking out for you. It's all going to be better now. I mean, it's for "the children", you know. Who could be against the children? What, you hate kids or something?

Now if only they would hurry up and get that cow fart tax in place. Then we'll be one step closer to Utopia.....

[ExRat]

Hi,

Agreed. This is crazy. E numbers and the rest of the crap in food are fine of course...It's alright to let mums gas our kids as they walk past all of the 'Chelsea tractors' doing the school-run. If we really cared about our kids, we'd make them wander around in protective bubbles.

Condolences to anyone affected by this.

BTW Do you think this will affect my lead generation business?

[Jillian Slack]

Here's a link to an "online petition." I have no idea how effective these are. Usually when I see anything about an online petition, it's one of those email forwards and I think those are ignored by people in authority. However, this site has a letter that you can use to voice your concern to those in power. Maybe that's the way to go.

Save Kid's Clothing Resale, Consignment & Thrift Stores from Closing! | Make Second Hand Kid's Clothes Legal! | Make Second Hand Kid's Clothes Legal!


Sheesh, what's next?

[Alice Seba]

Originally Posted by ExRat

If we really cared about our kids, we'd make them wander around in protective bubbles.

That was my suggestion above. I also think the government should pay for the bubbles!

[ExRat]

Hi Alice,

Ooops! I appear to have blatantly (but unwittingly) 'plaguarised' your bubble idea. I do apologise. How embarrassing! It was a great idea Alice. If we could also make them soundproof, that might solve a few other unrelated problems too, but would perhaps be a little unethical...

PS you really burst my bubble there.

[MikeAmbrosio]

Originally Posted by Floyd Fisher

Did any of these fine lawmakers happen to notice products such as Sony Playstation, Nintendo Wii, vsmile, and god knows what else happen to contain massive amounts of lead?

It's called solder.....the stuff that holds all the electronics together.

Even idiots know this...why is it a mystery to 535 of the so-called smartest minds in America?

Oh well, good thing I don't sell products to kids...I'd lose my mind in about 15 seconds.

Hi Floyd,

OT a bit, but as an FYI, lead-free solder has been around for years. One reason is because copper pipes (which carry your drinking water) are soldered. When the dangers of lead reared up way back, lead free solder was developed.

Does that mean 100% of the manufacturers use it? Hardly. But it's fair to say that not ALL electronic gadgets contain lead filled solder.

Question is though...which ones?

[Floyd Fisher]

Originally Posted by MikeAmbrosio

Hi Floyd,

OT a bit, but as an FYI, lead-free solder has been around for years. One reason is because copper pipes (which carry your drinking water) are soldered. When the dangers of lead reared up way back, lead free solder was developed.

Does that mean 100% of the manufacturers use it? Hardly. But it's fair to say that not ALL electronic gadgets contain lead filled solder.

Question is though...which ones?

That solder you mention is commonly known as 'acid core' solder. You can't use it in electronics for obvious reasons.

[Bill Farnham]

Originally Posted by MikeAmbrosio

Hi Floyd,

OT a bit, but as an FYI, lead-free solder has been around for years.

I agree, but what about all those pencils out there?

KJ

[Alice Seba]

Originally Posted by Killer Joe

I agree, but what about all those pencils out there?

KJ

Pencils are made from graphite or charcoal.

[Floyd Fisher]

Originally Posted by ExRat

Hi,

Agreed. This is crazy. E numbers and the rest of the crap in food are fine of course...It's alright to let mums gas our kids as they walk past all of the 'Chelsea tractors' doing the school-run. If we really cared about our kids, we'd make them wander around in protective bubbles.

Condolences to anyone affected by this.

BTW Do you think this will affect my lead generation business?

Only if you're selling lead to children. Then you should be ashamed.

[jcbradley]

The other people it hurts are the ones who shop at consignment, 2nd hand and thrift stores. They usually can't afford spending too much money on clothing, hence, why these stores are popular but with this in effect, they will no longer have this option, thereby another unintended consequence of a stupid law. the people they want to help are the ones going to get hurt the most. It really becomes a hidden and extremely burdensome tax increase on the lower to middle class people who do shop at these stores.

And to add one more point to this, how do you think big business is seeing this? Hating it like the rest of us small business or loving it, knowing this will kill away competition not to mention a reason to hike prices