We Cut Spammers Up With Rusty Knives....Edited By Admin

[Steven Wagenheim]

I really wanted this to be a nice easy day but I think a few members here
are forgetting that just because we don't have official moderators here
means we can blatantly promote our products and services.

I am seeing posts, "Hey, check out my WSO below" and stuff like that.

People, we don't do this here...period.

I can't speak for everybody else but if I see posts like these, I will report
them.

You know who you are.

[BIG Mike]

They must be getting deleted pretty quick because I'm not seeing them. And check out my WSO....

[lakshaybehl]

Yeah!

I'm not seeing them either!

[Steven Wagenheim]

Originally Posted by BIG Mike

They must be getting deleted pretty quick because I'm not seeing them. And check out my WSO....

Mike, most of them are in response to a thread starter.

For example, somebody will start a thread asking about some IM method and
a person will reply, "I have a WSO that you can check out in my sig that
goes into it in detail."

This is the kind of stuff you have to look for because you won't find it
in the thread starters topic or content of post.

[Scott Burton]

I agree, wholeheartedly.

The benefit we had before with Moderators was there was someone specifically looking for these types of posts. It seems that now that we, the users, are the moderators, a number of people seem to be overlooking the rules and etiquette that have made the Warrior Forum all that it has become.

Just because you've been a member for years and have hundreds or even thousands of posts to your credit, doesn't mean you are not spamming the forum when you post blatantly self-promoting material such as "Hey, check out my WSO" or "Check out this service in my signature"

I hope this will be a short lived fad that will quickly calm down, but some of us are definitely in this forum for the long haul and will take the appropriate action to help keep the forum alive, healthy and prosperous.

Scott Burton

Scott Burton

[violationz]

I see whatcha' mean - literally just reported one.

[Eric Johnson]

I havn't noticed it either BUT if that is happening, it does have to be clamped on pretty hard. Due to the nature of this forum it could become a spamfest in about 3 seconds flat. To be honest, I was amazed at how controlled things were here when I first showed up. The moderators were doing an amazing job. Things are slightly different now that we are in control...muhahahahaha...erm...sorry.

So Steven is right, we should make sure to be extra vigilant or Allen may have to peel himself out of his hammoc on the Cuban beach and actually do some work around here

[Lance K]

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

Mike, most of them are in response to a thread starter.

For example, somebody will start a thread asking about some IM method and
a person will reply, "I have a WSO that you can check out in my sig that
goes into it in detail."

This is the kind of stuff you have to look for because you won't find it
in the thread starters topic or content of post.

Hey Steven, I think I have the answer to you problem in my sig file!!!

It's not quite live yet. PM me to get on the advanced notification list.

[lakshaybehl]

Originally Posted by Lance K

Hey Steven, I think I have the answer to you problem in my sig file!!!

It's not quite live yet. PM me to get on the advanced notification list.

LOL Lance....

[Ray Erdmann]

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

Mike, most of them are in response to a thread starter.

For example, somebody will start a thread asking about some IM method and
a person will reply, "I have a WSO that you can check out in my sig that
goes into it in detail."

This is the kind of stuff you have to look for because you won't find it
in the thread starters topic or content of post.

Personally speaking, if I had a question about anything IM related and I asked it here at WF, I'd rather much have someone say "I have a WSO about this, so feel free to check my sig"...then some non-directional response such as:

"Use the search feature!"...

A little direction to a WSO, again, IMHO, is not blatantly advertising and if you've spent any time here at WF and are familiar w/WSO', then you know you're going to get a good deal on the subject matter.

Just my $0.02


Ray

[Steven Wagenheim]

Originally Posted by Ray Erdmann

Personally speaking, if I had a question about anything IM related and I asked it here at WF, I'd rather much have someone say "I have a WSO about this, so feel free to check my sig"...then some non-directional response such as:

"Use the search feature!"...

A little direction to a WSO, again, IMHO, is not blatantly advertising and if you've spent any time here at WF and are familiar w/WSO', then you know you're going to get a good deal on the subject matter.

Just my $0.02


Ray

Ray, the point is, it's against the TOS of this forum and if the mods were
still here, those posts would be gone in a heartbeat.

[SpicyRobby]

Originally Posted by Ray Erdmann

A little direction to a WSO, again, IMHO, is not blatantly advertising and if you've spent any time here at WF and are familiar w/WSO', then you know you're going to get a good deal on the subject matter.

I wholeheartedly agree with you.

I understand blatant advertising with jumping into forum and starting a thread with - 'Hey, do you want to find out more about.....?'

or

'I've been here on the forum for 5 days and now I want to contribute to you ...bla bla bla.. buy my stuff'


But if I see that someone is looking for something I can really help him/her out with - why not offer my services/products???

Am I badly mistaken having done it myself? Today one of our fellow warriors was inquiring about selling info products on eBay - and I replied that the DVD manufacturing company he mentions is indeed the best in the industry and that I'm currently working on a system providing design services using that particular company.

I truly believe that I'm giving value to another forum member and if he chooses to opt into my list and get notified when I launch my video course (which is going to be free, by the way) - I don't really see anything wrong with it...

Is it not the purpose of any forum to give real value to each other?

[BIG Mike]

I could easily be mistaken with all the changes that have been made, but the rule used to be that you could provide a link and mention your WSO/Product in response to a thread.

You're not alowwed to start threads about them, but if someone posts something related to your product you can respond in kind. Obviously if it looks cheesy, like Joe Newbie's first post asks the question and the second post is the WSO, then it's questionable, but otherwise I don't think it's a problem.

Am I misunderstanding you Steven?

[Steven Wagenheim]

Originally Posted by BIG Mike

I could easily be mistaken with all the changes that have been made, but the rule used to be that you could provide a link and mention your WSO/Product in response to a thread.

You're not alowwed to start threads about them, but if someone posts something related to your product you can respond in kind. Obviously if it looks cheesy, like Joe Newbie's first post asks the question and the second post is the WSO, then it's questionable, but otherwise I don't think it's a problem.

Am I misunderstanding you Steven?

Mike, if somebody posts a topic about something they're having a problem
with, and we were allowed to post a reply, "Hey, I got the solution to
your problem, check out my WSO" do you know what this forum would
look like?

And if that IS allowed, then the mods of this forum went beyond their
duties because I know specifically that any time I saw a post like that it
was deleted within minutes.

Personally, I think that's a bad thing, but if it's okay within the TOS, then
I will apologize for any posts I reported.

But I still think it's wrong.

[Roy Carter]

Mike - To be honest I thought that was the case as well.

Blatant self promotion = NO. But if someone is asking about a very specific thing and you have something that is related directly (i.e. very much on topic) and is what the person is after then I understood you were ok to say, " Since your question directly relates, you may find what you are looking for in my sig".

Or am I mistaken as well?

Roy

[Alan Petersen]

I've been noticing those as well. I'm also seeing self promotion pointing folks to their websites/products not just WSO. I thought maybe the rules allowed that.

My understanding was that wasn't allowed but I may be wrong. I haven't reported those because I was bit confused if it was allowed or not.

[Steven Wagenheim]

Originally Posted by Roy Carter

Mike - To be honest I thought that was the case as well.

Blatant self promotion = NO. But if someone is asking about a very specific thing and you have something that is related directly (i.e. very much on topic) and is what the person is after then I understood you were ok to say, " Since your question directly relates, you may find what you are looking for in my sig".

Or am I mistaken as well?

Roy

Roy doesn't this open up a huge can of worms?

In either case, I'd like a clarification of this rule from Allen. Personally, I'm
not going to do it. I feel we've paid our $20 to promote our WSOs and
the general discussion forum is not the place to do it.

And then if WSOs are okay, what about other links in our sigs? Where does
it stop? Where do we draw the line?

I think it's a slippery slope, but I haven't been here long enough to make
that call.

Allen, can we get a clarification on this and if possible to add it to the
forum rules?

[lgibbon]

Originally Posted by BIG Mike

I could easily be mistaken with all the changes that have been made, but the rule used to be that you could provide a link and mention your WSO/Product in response to a thread.

Problem is Mike a lot of the people with "look at my WSO" answers,
have the same IP number as the person that started the thread.
Shame we can't check them now like the old mods could.

[Martin.Avis]

I'm sure that Big Mike is correct too.

There is, I think, a difference between someone mentioning something in their sig in response to a genuine question and the more blatent self promotions that Steve is concerned about. I've seen some of them too.

I am puzzled, however, why Steve needs to start a whole new thread about this. If he wants to police the forum and report posts he doesn't think are kosher, then fair play to him. If he's got the time and inclination to bother about what other people are doing, that's his business. But why tell us? Just get on with it.

Martin

[Steven Wagenheim]

Originally Posted by Martin.Avis

I'm sure that Big Mike is correct too.

There is, I think, a difference between someone mentioning something in their sig in response to a genuine question and the more blatent self promotions that Steve is concerned about. I've seen some of them too.

I am puzzled, however, why Steve needs to start a whole new thread about this. If he wants to police the forum and report posts he doesn't think are kosher, then fair play to him. If he's got the time and inclination to bother about what other people are doing, that's his business. But why tell us? Just get on with it.

Martin

Martin, here is why. The forum no longer has official mods. The members
now police the forum. Some may figure it's not their concern, and that's
fine. Others though, may not be aware of this.

I just want to remind people that it's up to us to keep this forum clean.

Whether or not you want to do you part is up to you, and nobody is
forcing you. But sometimes, out of sight, out of mind. And if all the
members forget that it's up to them to keep this place clean, what happens
is that it becomes a mess...plain and simple.

** edit ** Allen has just responded to another thread where this infraction occurred. Pointing
out the WSO in your post is NOT allowed.

[seasoned]

NOBODY said there weren't moderators! JUST THE OPPOSITE! The idea is that EVERYONE can report and enough reports will set it up for the other moderators that may delete it!

That has the potential of working FASTER, especially since the moderators might just do things the old way ANYWAY!

Martin.Avis,

Steven Wagenheim OBVIOUSLY just wants to call attention to it and bring some reason to it. Though some MIGHT understand the OPs request, and have a VALID answer, MOST such responses I have seen are NOT like that! This forum DOES allow links to be in the SIG, and DOES allow ON TOPIC answers, etc... If you have a solution, state a possible answer/problem, and call attention to the sig! THAT way, you kill three birds with one stone! I doubt Steven would be against THAT! Of course, posting SIMPLY to get a sale, or bumping WITHOUT adding value, isn't allowed.

Steve

[Stallion]

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

I really wanted this to be a nice easy day but I think a few members here
are forgetting that just because we don't have official moderators here
means we can blatantly promote our products and services.

I am seeing posts, "Hey, check out my WSO below" and stuff like that.

People, we don't do this here...period.

I can't speak for everybody else but if I see posts like these, I will report
them.

You know who you are.

I know who you're talking about and I noticed this type of thing from this person since the start of the new forum. I didn't report it for a few reasons. I'm not justifying them, just saying them.

I consider myself pretty new at the whole IM thing and I don't believe I have that high of a status. The idea of going around the reporting people that have more status seems like a recipe to start a war. I don't really want to piss people off.

The second reason is, from what I understand, is that this is a pretty open system. Meaning, if I report them, they know I reported them. At least that's what I've heard. Obviously, I don't want to get a retaliatory like infraction against myself.

[Michael Ellis]

I thought I read in one of Allen's post that there were still "Super Mods" looking after things like this.

I could be wrong.

[admin]

Steven it's not as bad as you're making it sound :-)

Everything gets reported here. You should see the moles I whacked this morning. Most of it was already moderated out of sight by members, all I had to do was click the spam decimator button and wipe them out at once, all their posts and their account, all in one click :-) Cool stuff...

Check out the pic below...see that spam button? I almost whacked John Taylor with it this morning by accident. His post was right below a spammer post and I came close to making John vanish with no way to call him back. :-) (be careful responding to those spam posts)

Anyway, I know the post I think you are referring to and we're giving them a chance to put that in check before we have to do anything more serious...

[macchiavelli]

They are probably people who are new to the Warrior Forum.
Most people are used to forums where you can just blatantly self promote yourself...not on the Warrior forum!

[Martin.Avis]

Steve,

I'm not criticising you for reporting errant posts. Far from it - I applaud your diligence and public-spiritedness.

My concern is that there seems no point (to me) to make new threads to tell people that you are doing so.

As Allen has said, he gets a lot of folks reporting this stuff. Anonymously and quietly.

Martin

[Kay King]

Yes, some are new and clueless - but some old timers here are sliding in posts telling people to find the solution at "XXX" - pointing to their WSO or site or product.

The rule on the old forum was that you could promote your WSO in your signature but not in your posts and when long time members start doing it, new members think it's OK. To my knowledge, that rule hasn't changed.

If someone is posting to promote either their product or their WSO - it's not good no matter who they are. It leads to "if he can do it, why can't I?" - and more promotional posts.

kay

[John Taylor]

Originally Posted by admin

I almost whacked John Taylor with it this morning by accident.

His post was right below a spammer post and I came close to making John vanish with no way to call him back. :-)

Although some may say that wasn't such a bad idea! LOL

John

[Johnny Slater]

Originally Posted by Kay King

Yes, some are new and clueless - but some old timers here are sliding in posts telling people to find the solution at "XXX" - pointing to their WSO or site or product.

The rule on the old forum was that you could promote your WSO in your signature but not in your posts and when long time members start doing it, new members think it's OK. To my knowledge, that rule hasn't changed.

If someone is posting to promote either their product or their WSO - it's not good no matter who they are. It leads to "if he can do it, why can't I?" - and more promotional posts.

kay

I had a question about this some time ago and asked several mods, back when we had them. Every one of them gave the same answer that Allen had at one time posted somewhere.

If someone asks a specific question and your product addresses that specific question then you are allowed to mention the product inside of a post. However, at no time are you supposed to mention a WSO in the main forum.

This may have changed but that is the last official word I recieved when I specifically asked about it.

[John Taylor]

I have to say I'm having a good laugh at this thread..

Some of you are beginning to realise just a few of the
dilemmas and judgment calls the old style mods had to
face on an ongoing basis.

;-)

John

[Michael Tracey]

Originally Posted by Michael Ellis

I thought I read in one of Allen's post that there were still "Super Mods" looking after things like this.

I could be wrong.

Then again you could be right.... but that would be telling

Michael

[KarlWarren]

Originally Posted by John Taylor

I have to say I'm having a good laugh at this thread..

Some of you are beginning to realise just a few of the
dilemmas and judgment calls the old style mods had to
face on an ongoing basis.

;-)

John

Lucky I'm not a mod, I can't stand spam, never could... it tastes horrible and I always cut my finger opening the can.

I say nuke 'em all

[Lance K]

Originally Posted by John Taylor

I have to say I'm having a good laugh at this thread..

Some of you are beginning to realise just a few of the
dilemmas and judgment calls the old style mods had to
face on an ongoing basis.

Dilemmas? Judgement calls??? I thought you were the old phart who earned the reputation for being ruthless in exercising your hair trigger spam crushing abilities.

[Juan R.Villà]

Steven, I totally agree with you. We, the members of the forum MUST keep it clean and as healthy as it has always been, free of spammer, scammers, etc...

At least we have God-Allen watching us silently and taking good care of us all...

Thanks Allen, Thanks Steven

[John Rowe]

Gimme! Gimme! Gimme!

[admin]

Originally Posted by John Taylor

Although some may say that wasn't such a bad idea! LOL

John

LOL...I meant to PM you about it but got tied up in something. It was seriously close man. :-)

I kind of freaked for a second thinking just how close it was. An admin could potentially make that mistake easily. It's something we'll have to watch out for.

[John Rogers]

Originally Posted by Lance K

Dilemmas? Judgement calls??? I thought you were the old phart who earned the reputation for being ruthless in exercising your hair trigger spam crushing abilities.

More like spam gumming when he forgets to take his teeth out of the glass.


Oh, you mean the other spam...

[JohnMcCabe]

Originally Posted by KarlWarren

Lucky I'm not a mod, I can't stand spam, never could... it tastes horrible and I always cut my finger opening the can.

I say nuke 'em all

Karl, if you ever get to Honolulu, go to the Outrigger Waikiki on the Beach hotel and order spam fried rice for breakfast. It will change you mind about the canned variety.

As for the spammers that land here, nuking is too quick and painless. I was reading about a Prohibition-era bootlegger who liked to stake his enemies out in the mangroves in water just shallow enough that the person's head stayed above high tide. The crabs would start eating what was below water while the saltwater mosquitoes would make the person wish the crabs took bigger bites.

Something like that seems more appropriate.

[BIG Mike]

Originally Posted by lgibbon

Problem is Mike a lot of the people with "look at my WSO" answers,
have the same IP number as the person that started the thread.
Shame we can't check them now like the old mods could.

That's what I meant about the "Cheesy" posts Les - I know some dirtbags will pull that crap. Personally, I've respond to a lot of threads with a little shameless promotion of something and I know some of my members at Incansoft have. But I'd never try to BS the members by pulling that crap.

[Stephen De Bond]

So does this mean if i am asking for geniune advice on a subject and then someone comes and spams my thread the whole thread gets deleted? Even though it may not be the original thread starter who is blatently spamming? Seems harsh on those warriors who give genuine advice in reply to a thread without spamming as everyone in the thread suffers?

[Steven Wagenheim]

Originally Posted by Stephen De Bond

So does this mean if i am asking for geniune advice on a subject and then someone comes and spams my thread the whole thread gets deleted? Even though it may not be the original thread starter who is blatently spamming? Seems harsh on those warriors who give genuine advice in reply to a thread without spamming as everyone in the thread suffers?

Stephen, I think just the offending post will be deleted if that's the post that's
reported.

But since I am not a mod, I can't really answer that for certain.

[Stephen De Bond]

Thanks for the quick reply Steven maybe a moderater could clear this point up? It could lead to chaos otherwise. I have every respect for someone with a post count like yours.

[kevinw1]

Surely someone can offer their advice/services WSO in a PM to the person asking the question, without needing to post to the forum. Then the asker gets the advice and the forum doesn't get spammed.

Kevin

[Kim Standerline]

Originally Posted by BIG Mike

I could easily be mistaken with all the changes that have been made, but the rule used to be that you could provide a link and mention your WSO/Product in response to a thread.

You're not alowwed to start threads about them, but if someone posts something related to your product you can respond in kind. Obviously if it looks cheesy, like Joe Newbie's first post asks the question and the second post is the WSO, then it's questionable, but otherwise I don't think it's a problem.

Am I misunderstanding you Steven?

Yeah I was under the impression this was so, if not, then I'm probably one of the guilty people. It may well be the OP is referring to a post I made earlier.

Ho Hum here I was thinking we were on a marketing forum

Kim

[Jason Moffatt]

I can't imagine ever pushing the spam button or report thread button unless it was porn!

So many better things to do then to try and be the spam cops.

[Eric Johnson]

Originally Posted by Jason Moffatt

I can't imagine ever pushing the spam button or report thread button unless it was porn!

So many better things to do then to try and be the spam cops.

To be honest with you, I'm kinda like that too...BUT I am glad there are spam cops about. An IM forum could get nasty real quick if it wasn't policed.

[Greg Cooksley]

Originally Posted by Michael Tracey

Then again you could be right....
but that would be telling

Michael

Hey Michael,

Haven't seen you around here for ages....welcome back...

I trust you are well....

Regards

Greg

[Martin Luxton]

A few days ago I mentioned a url in my sig file as an example of a really messed up site that had actually made a sale (I was really surprised).

It was in response to a newbie who hadn't taken any action and my point was he should just get a website up, no matter how bad it looked, and then work on it.

Martin

PS Just removed it in case anybody clicks to see which one it was

[Kim Standerline]

Originally Posted by Martin Luxton

A few days ago I mentioned a url in my sig file as an example of a really messed up site that had actually made a sale (I was really surprised).

It was in response to a newbie who hadn't taken any action and my point was he should just get a website up, no matter how bad it looked, and then work on it.

Martin

PS Just removed it in case anybody clicks to see which one it was

lol sound advice Martin, exactly what I say to newbies. get your site up there, the feeling of accomplishment is second to none.

Shame you removed it.

Kim

[Michael Oksa]

Yep, we are in a marketing forum. And promoting a WSO in the wrong way isn't marketing, it's spam.

If you are going to offer some advice AND mention your WSO as a matter of fact, that's not as bad as saying "buy my WSO to get advice from me" - that is not what the Warrior Forum is about.

You can bet other people notice it too. And I don;t care who you are, I won't be buying from you if you blatantly promote your WSOs without offering anything else of value. Heck, if all of the advice you can give on a topic is contained in your WSO and there is so little that you can't share ANY of it, then that says mre about you than you think.

As far as only reporting porn, that may be fine for some, but I have, and will continue to report spam in all its forms. The number of posts one has doen't make a bt of difference in whether I report it or not.

~Michael

p.s. I used to eat two Spam sandwiches every day for lunch. Two slices of heavily-buttered white bread with two slices of Spam each. Then microwaved a bit to get the butter all melty - yum!