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Unread 25th August 2011, 12:28 AM   #1
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Default What to do if you can't get a refund?

I know that this might irritate some of the people who make products, but I am trying to get a refund from a Warrior with no luck. No response to my email, or private message.

Fine product, not for me after second glance. It involves Amazon marketing which I thought I could work around (California affiliates have been banned) but I can't.

So far Warrior Forum people have not been helpful.

I am not a serial refunder - as my purchases from Clickbank will show. However, I am seriously trying to build my business and do not want products that do not fit with my business model

My friend is interested in buying one of their other products and I told him to hold off until I see how this shakes down.

I guess people don't realize how this affects their reputation. .
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Unread 25th August 2011, 12:37 AM   #2
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Default Re: What to do if you can't get a refund?

Since you said you can't get a refund from this marketer the only other option is to get over it and move on. Write it off as a business expense (as you otherwise would anyway). Don't waste time fighting over a few bucks and focus on building your business instead.

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Unread 25th August 2011, 12:38 AM   #3
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Default Re: What to do if you can't get a refund?

If you paid with a credit card, you can contact your credit card company and ask them to do a charge back.

If you paid through Paypal, open a dispute.

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Unread 25th August 2011, 12:52 AM   #4
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Default Re: What to do if you can't get a refund?

I don't think I'd buy another product from someone that doesn't return your emails or messages. If it's a small amount then write it off and move on, you're just wasting time and energy trying to get the money back. If it was a higher priced product though then open a dispute through Paypal or contact your credit card.

If you bought this on a WSO then leave honest feedback. Let it known that you cannot use the information in the product but that the seller won't refund you. That's what feedback is for, even though we usually only see good feedback because that's what is asked for, give honest feedback and avoid others going through the same thing.

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Unread 25th August 2011, 01:09 AM   #5
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Default Re: What to do if you can't get a refund?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bloomingrose View Post
I know that this might irritate some of the people who make products, but I am trying to get a refund from a Warrior with no luck. No response to my email, or private message.

Fine product, not for me after second glance. It involves Amazon marketing which I thought I could work around (California affiliates have been banned) but I can't.

So far Warrior Forum people have not been helpful.

I am not a serial refunder - as my purchases from Clickbank will show. However, I am seriously trying to build my business and do not want products that do not fit with my business model

My friend is interested in buying one of their other products and I told him to hold off until I see how this shakes down.

I guess people don't realize how this affects their reputation. .
I've had the same problem with trying to get refunds from Warriors--even though they said they provided refunds for a certain amount of days. I even laid out the specific reasons for wanting a refund but still had no luck. I have just sucked it up. I know I'm not gonna buy from those people again. The only reason I didn't get really upset was b/c it wasn't expensive.

That Amazon thing sucks. I live in NC, and they did the same thing to us a long time ago. We were probably the first or second state it happened to. What makes it worse is that it doesn't just effect Amazon. I can't promote a physical product at all it seems like--unless it's a pay-per-lead program like in the dating niche. I got dropped from a lot of programs and can't even have a Linkshare acct., either.

Therefore, I have learned to love Clickbank. I have also learned about other ways to make money online that pay via Paypal (of which there are quite a few) so that I can still have multiple income streams. I am working on one for next month and possibly a third by the end of the year if I feel up to it. Don't give up.

Good luck,
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Unread 25th August 2011, 01:19 AM   #6
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Default Re: What to do if you can't get a refund?

Your options are;
  • To post a note to that effect in the WSO thread (I assume it was a WSO as you said it was a Warrior). That might get their attention.
  • Put a dispute in with PayPal.
  • Put in a dispute (charge back) with your card if that was used. If it came out of your bank account, do the same as you would if it was your credit card. There is a time limit on that though, so don't dilly dally.
Don't wait for one to pan out before you start the next one, or you may go over the time limit for the other one.

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Unread 25th August 2011, 01:32 AM   #7
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Default Re: What to do if you can't get a refund?

The "can't apply this to my business" excuse is too commonly used
by serial refunders, imho (not stating that you are, but sellers might
have a bad day and got a bunch of similar PM's).

Nonetheless, in your case:
Quote:
Originally Posted by HarrisonJ View Post
If you paid with a credit card, you can contact your credit card company and ask them to do a charge back.

If you paid through Paypal, open a dispute.
I second what Harrison said.
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Unread 25th August 2011, 01:35 AM   #8
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Default Re: What to do if you can't get a refund?

Chances are that you didn't pay much for this product, right?

Although it's a shame that the particular individual is not willing to refund you, there's always a good lesson to learn and we've all had to learn them.

If you asked for a raise of hands for people on this forum who have bought a product that didn't work, or was not useful, or was a complete waste of time and money, I'd say that it would be just about everyone who has tried some form of Internet Marketing.

Don't let it irritate you, or consume any more of your time and energy.

I'd have to agree with ActiveTrader, it's probably time just to move on and consider it a lesson learning experience.

This in itself can be a great motivator and will be the catalyst to harden you against future rip-offs.

There's a lot to be said for experiencing getting burned and it often results in a wiser, smarter, savvy internet marketer.

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Unread 25th August 2011, 07:53 AM   #9
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Default Re: What to do if you can't get a refund?

Yes There are few people who don't care about refund, even if they really have sold some usefulness stuff can't do anything much about them.

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Unread 25th August 2011, 08:12 AM   #10
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Default Re: What to do if you can't get a refund?

write some reviews on review sites. they should notice

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Unread 25th August 2011, 08:25 AM   #11
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Default Re: What to do if you can't get a refund?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Kent View Post
Did the sales page state a refund policy? Let's be clear on this.

Because you may be asking for something you are not entitled to,
Exactly what I was wondering.

Are you actually entitled to a refund, here? You seem to be discussing it as if you are, but you've offered us no evidence of that. I hope you have to yourself. It sounds as if you're not even suggesting the the product doesn't fulfil its claims?

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Unread 25th August 2011, 09:12 AM   #12
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Default Re: What to do if you can't get a refund?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bloomingrose View Post
I know that this might irritate some of the people who make products, but I am trying to get a refund from a Warrior with no luck. No response to my email, or private message.

Fine product, not for me after second glance. It involves Amazon marketing which I thought I could work around (California affiliates have been banned) but I can't.

So far Warrior Forum people have not been helpful.

I am not a serial refunder - as my purchases from Clickbank will show. However, I am seriously trying to build my business and do not want products that do not fit with my business model

My friend is interested in buying one of their other products and I told him to hold off until I see how this shakes down.

I guess people don't realize how this affects their reputation. .
It appears - forgive me if I've read it wrong - that you knew the report was about working with Amazon. "...which I thought I could work around" would seem to indicate that you knew what you were getting before you purchased, that the product wasn't sold from a 'blind' sales page (the concept of which I really detest, btw - just say what you're selling and be done with it). Now you want a refund because your 'workaround' won't work.

If that's the case, I wouldn't give you a refund either.

And as far as PayPal disputes or credit card chargebacks go, I hope if you try that route you're shot down in flames. "I didn't want it" isn't a valid reason for a dispute or a chargeback. You would have to go the route of the product being 'not as represented'. If you do THAT, after you've already said it's a good product, shame on you.
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Unread 25th August 2011, 09:12 AM   #13
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Default Re: What to do if you can't get a refund?

Whoa...Hold up...so all you have to do to get Free WSO's is to call your credit card company and do a charge back?....that's a bit messed up....

Anyways, Most of what is being shared is information.....if you buy information you cannot really return it...I say "Caveat Emptor"....

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Unread 25th August 2011, 09:17 AM   #14
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Default Re: What to do if you can't get a refund?

Internet Marketers who get refunds from Internet Marketers are a blight. Either you didn't do your due diligence or your essentially a welfare rat treating vendors like a bank. Suck it up and take it as a learning experience not to buy until you research the product, or know what your doing.
You will be back here in 3 months crying about chronic refunders too I bet.

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Unread 25th August 2011, 09:21 AM   #15
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Default Re: What to do if you can't get a refund?

If you paid with PayPal, dispute it and the seller will most likely respond, and you'll get the refund.

Offering and giving refunds is a very important part of your online business. It's just bad business to ignore someone asking for a refund, and yes it does affect one's reputation to ignore or refuse refunds.
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Unread 25th August 2011, 09:34 AM   #16
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Default Re: What to do if you can't get a refund?

I can't believe all of the advice here about opening a dispute with PayPal or initiating a chargeback.

If the product was misrepresented, that's one thing. As far as I'm concerned, in that situation the seller is fair game. I'd go after a refund in a heartbeat.

But that's not what this is. She knew what she was buying. Then she found out she couldn't skirt Amazon's affiliate rules. Now she wants a refund???

Sellers aren't required to offer refunds. And in my mind, if a product doesn't offer a refund, that just means that I'd better make damned sure I want it before I hit the 'buy' button. It also means that I'm going to hold the seller to a higher standard than maybe I normally would. If I'm offered a "secret method" then it had better be secret. If I've done my research and the product does what it's supposed to do, then the monkey's on my back. It's MY problem if I don't like the "secret method".

But I guess the concept of "personal responsibility" is a thing of the past...
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Unread 25th August 2011, 09:41 AM   #17
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Default Re: What to do if you can't get a refund?

If you did not receive a physical product by mail and it did not meet your expectation, you can open a dispute. PayPal will contact the seller and 99% of the time you'll get the refund. It's sort of comical when you try to email a seller and they do not reply yet when you open a dispute, PayPal sends an email to the same address and they miraculously receive it and reply the same day.

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Unread 25th August 2011, 09:49 AM   #18
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Default Re: What to do if you can't get a refund?

I think you should move on. The product may serve you well down the road.

But I don't understand the thinking of buying someone's product, deciding to do something else, and that justifies a refund.

Not an issue of being a serial refunder.

As far as how it affects their reputation - if a seller has a reputation for being a weak reed their refund rate could go through the roof. Just look at ClickBank.

If the product was bad that is a different story. But this is a fine product. Which you have to refer to at anytime in the future.

Maybe seeing the words 'shakes down' and 'reputation' so close together from someone wanting a refund clouds my viewpoint.

I've seen customers do that: product is fine, I just want it for free and if I don't get a refund I'll scream all over the net that you're a fraud and scammer.

Apparently that is not you. But you don't know what the seller has gone through. That may be why they are not responding.

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Unread 25th August 2011, 10:28 AM   #19
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Default Re: What to do if you can't get a refund?

Quote:
Fine product, not for me after second glance. It involves Amazon marketing which I thought I could work around (California affiliates have been banned) but I can't.
I am flat out amazed that anyone was saying "Chargeback" or "Dispute it with Paypal" after this comment.

"Fine product, but it won't help me beat the laws I already knew were in place. Gimme my money back."

Y'all're just nasty.


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Unread 25th August 2011, 11:00 AM   #20
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Default Re: What to do if you can't get a refund?

It would help to see what the actual refund policy stated. (As Chris and Alexa have already mentioned.)

Some marketers make a very big deal about saying...

"If you're not satisfied with this product for ANY reason I will refund your money NO QUESTIONS ASKED". But then get upset if someone asks for a refund and they don't like the reason.

I have no idea if that was the case in this situation since we haven't seen the original refund policy.

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Unread 25th August 2011, 11:41 AM   #21
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Default Re: What to do if you can't get a refund?

just for information i wanted to ask this question when it is written in the sales letter that

"If you're not satisfied with this product for ANY reason I will refund your money NO QUESTIONS ASKED".

will person get his refund or he has to make efforts to convince the seller to give him refund.

just curious.
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Unread 25th August 2011, 12:04 PM   #22
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Default Re: What to do if you can't get a refund?

Quote:
Originally Posted by HarrisonJ View Post
If you paid with a credit card, you can contact your credit card company and ask them to do a charge back.

If you paid through Paypal, open a dispute.
Cool...what are you selling that I can do this with? :rolleyes:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Abraham View Post
The "can't apply this to my business" excuse is too commonly used
by serial refunders, imho (not stating that you are, but sellers might
have a bad day and got a bunch of similar PM's).

Nonetheless, in your case:

I second what Harrison said.
And I second what I said to him....

Paul pointed out the obvious reason why this person shouldn't be asking for a refund in the first place, let alone escalating it to a PayPal dispute or charge back - that's just nuts.
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Unread 25th August 2011, 02:27 PM   #23
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Default Re: What to do if you can't get a refund?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rts2271 View Post
Internet Marketers who get refunds from Internet Marketers are a blight. Either you didn't do your due diligence or your essentially a welfare rat treating vendors like a bank. Suck it up and take it as a learning experience not to buy until you research the product, or know what your doing.
You will be back here in 3 months crying about chronic refunders too I bet.

/rantoff
So, just to be clear....since I'm an internet marketer, that means it's ok for other internet marketers to screw me over? And not only is it ok for them to screw me over, they get to blame me for allowing them to screw me over as well if I decide I didn't enjoy the screwing they subjected me to?

Gotcha.
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Unread 25th August 2011, 05:10 PM   #24
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Default Re: What to do if you can't get a refund?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Hat Cat View Post
So, just to be clear....since I'm an internet marketer, that means it's ok for other internet marketers to screw me over? And not only is it ok for them to screw me over, they get to blame me for allowing them to screw me over as well if I decide I didn't enjoy the screwing they subjected me to?

Gotcha.
Nobody said anything about anyone being 'screwed over' or that it was ok screw people in general.

The OP bought a product, said that it was a good product. How is she getting 'screwed over' if she doesn't get a refund?

"Gotcha."?? ROFL
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Unread 25th August 2011, 09:02 PM   #25
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Default Re: What to do if you can't get a refund?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sanjaysharma View Post
just for information i wanted to ask this question when it is written in the sales letter that

"If you're not satisfied with this product for ANY reason I will refund your money NO QUESTIONS ASKED".

will person get his refund or he has to make efforts to convince the seller to give him refund.

just curious.
I have the same question. I will pursue this through my credit card, as the offer did specify satisfaction guaranteed. And unfortunately I will be more hesitant to purchase off of Warrior Forum, as the customer service ethos does not seem to be as strong as on Clickbank.

If you want examples of how important customer satisfaction is to a business look at Lands End and L.L. Bean. They offer money back satisfaction for any reason, and it has built their business. I think that the vendors should have that type of belief - the occassional refund is just part of doing business.

Anyway, enough of this - it is not making me money! Off to something more profitable.
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Unread 25th August 2011, 09:24 PM   #26
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Default Re: What to do if you can't get a refund?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bloomingrose View Post
I have the same question. I will pursue this through my credit card, as the offer did specify satisfaction guaranteed. And unfortunately I will be more hesitant to purchase off of Warrior Forum, as the customer service ethos does not seem to be as strong as on Clickbank.

If you want examples of how important customer satisfaction is to a business look at Lands End and L.L. Bean. They offer money back satisfaction for any reason, and it has built their business. I think that the vendors should have that type of belief - the occassional refund is just part of doing business.

Anyway, enough of this - it is not making me money! Off to something more profitable.
Customer service????

Lands End and LL Bean don't sell information products. When you send something back to them, you no longer have use of it.

The seller delivered on his promise - you said so yourself - you have no honorable reason to request a refund.

I agree with Paul.
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Unread 25th August 2011, 09:48 PM   #27
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Default Re: What to do if you can't get a refund?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bloomingrose View Post
I have the same question. I will pursue this through my credit card, as the offer did specify satisfaction guaranteed. And unfortunately I will be more hesitant to purchase off of Warrior Forum, as the customer service ethos does not seem to be as strong as on Clickbank.

If you want examples of how important customer satisfaction is to a business look at Lands End and L.L. Bean. They offer money back satisfaction for any reason, and it has built their business. I think that the vendors should have that type of belief - the occassional refund is just part of doing business
A couple more problems:

First, you are satisfied with the product. It is not the product which is an issue. The product is fine. Your issue is with other events - namely California's Internet sales tax law and your personal place of residence.

You could ... move.


Second, you are way out of bounds criticizing the forum. If you see a Lands End advertisement in the NY Times, purchase a product from Lands End, try to return it and are refused, you're going to start writing letters to the NY Times complaining about the Times?

As for ClickBank, you again fail to realize that ClickBank is the RETAILER. Like Lands End.

The Warrior Forum is NOT the retailer.

The forum has no ability to compel any seller to issue a refund.

If you feel you have been scammed by a seller then you can always contact the Help Desk. Scammers are not tolerated on the forum.

Also, if you try a chargeback and the seller provides this thread in defense of the chargeback claim, the question may be whether your credit card is revoked. Be cautious in going down that path. It is not a no-risk process of hey, I'll just do a chargeback whenever I'm not happy.

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Unread 25th August 2011, 09:59 PM   #28
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Default Re: What to do if you can't get a refund?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveJohnson View Post
Lands End and LL Bean don't sell information products. When you send something back to them, you no longer have use of it.
True. However, the OP could still sell their copy to get at least some of their money back and delete the product off their computer.

Yes, practical issues about. I'm only looking at this legally.

Once that copy is sold, retaining a copy, or selling a second copy, would be copyright infringement.

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Unread 25th August 2011, 10:25 PM   #29
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Default Re: What to do if you can't get a refund?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kindsvater View Post
True. However, the OP could still sell their copy to get at least some of their money back and delete the product off their computer.

Yes, practical issues about. I'm only looking at this legally.

Once that copy is sold, retaining a copy, or selling a second copy, would be copyright infringement.

.
I was thinking about suggesting that, but had no clue about the legalities involved.

Nor do I want to [even try to get a clue]

I started reading the PDF you linked to in another thread about the court ruling on a contract dispute - my eyes crossed and I started slobbering halfway through the second page!

Takes an especially dedicated person to become an attorney :rolleyes:
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Unread 25th August 2011, 11:15 PM   #30
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Default Re: What to do if you can't get a refund?

Thanks for all the comments folks. After several pm's and emails, I did get my money back. I still stand behind my ideas, sometimes you feel that a product might be good for you and once you get into it proves not to be that way.

When I start with product development I will have that philosophy.
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Unread 25th August 2011, 11:27 PM   #31
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Default Re: What to do if you can't get a refund?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveJohnson View Post
I can't believe all of the advice here about opening a dispute with PayPal or initiating a chargeback.

If the product was misrepresented, that's one thing. As far as I'm concerned, in that situation the seller is fair game. I'd go after a refund in a heartbeat.

But that's not what this is. She knew what she was buying. Then she found out she couldn't skirt Amazon's affiliate rules. Now she wants a refund???
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post
I am flat out amazed that anyone was saying "Chargeback" or "Dispute it with Paypal" after this comment.

"Fine product, but it won't help me beat the laws I already knew were in place. Gimme my money back."

Y'all're just nasty.


Paul
Totally agree. The OP KNEW what it was when they placed the order & wasn't able to try to cheat the system so now crying about a refund.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Hat Cat View Post
So, just to be clear....since I'm an internet marketer, that means it's ok for other internet marketers to screw me over? And not only is it ok for them to screw me over, they get to blame me for allowing them to screw me over as well if I decide I didn't enjoy the screwing they subjected me to?

Gotcha.
I don't see this as that, because the OP KNEW when they purchased it what the WSO was about. With the changes for California residents they legally can't be an affiliate in California while having a California address. They thought they'd be able to skirt the law weren't able to and are now crying about a refund. If it were a blind WSO and *then* they found out it was about Amazon that would be totally different.
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Unread 26th August 2011, 03:21 AM   #32
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Default Re: What to do if you can't get a refund?

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Originally Posted by bloomingrose View Post
Thanks for all the comments folks. After several pm's and emails, I did get my money back. I still stand behind my ideas, sometimes you feel that a product might be good for you and once you get into it proves not to be that way.

When I start with product development I will have that philosophy.
Uh huh....:rolleyes:
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Unread 26th August 2011, 05:42 AM   #33
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Default Re: What to do if you can't get a refund?

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After several pm's and emails, I did get my money back. I still stand behind my ideas, sometimes you feel that a product might be good for you and once you get into it proves not to be that way.
Even when you know going into it that you're fighting the law?

Ma'am/Sir/Whatever... This sort of thing is the best argument I have ever seen for a shared "abusive refunder list." Your user-ID would be at the top of it. Thank your stars for Rule #1.

And pay very close attention to kindsvater's earlier comments about the impact of fraud using a credit card.


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Unread 26th August 2011, 06:00 AM   #34
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Default Re: What to do if you can't get a refund?

Write it off and move on with more important things.

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Unread 26th August 2011, 06:53 AM   #35
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Default Re: What to do if you can't get a refund?

Interesting similarity to a situation I just ran into that is going to turn out badly for the customer (and I use that word lightly).

She buys something from us and immediately emails support asking for a refund. Mac responds, explains the refund policy and makes a polite offer to provide whatever assistance she needs.

Customer then files a PayPal dispute, stating, "I bought _________ from the seller and had problems with it. I emailed them and they refuse to work with me, so I want a refund." Customer then escalates the dispute before we receive the first email from PayPal (bad move).

I responded with a copy of her email and our reply, the fact it was an intangible, digital product and an explanation of our refund policy, with links to everything. She immediately loses the dispute - Y O I N K !

10 days later PayPal notifies us of her charge back due to "Unauthorized Purchase". She seems to have forgotten that she already acknowledged purchasing it via her dispute. O O P S !

I responded to everything and then called my account manager who confirmed PayPal is pursuing this as fraud.

Likely outcome: We'll win the chargeback, PayPal will terminate her account and the credit card company will do the same.

I'd be very careful about tossing out suggestions of charge backs for this very reason. While they serve a purpose, when used to defraud someone, you're opening up a can of worms for yourself as Brian said.
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Unread 26th August 2011, 07:10 AM   #36
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Default Re: What to do if you can't get a refund?

Ok...once again I'm confused by some of the answers.

If you don't want to give refunds then don't offer a refund policy. Or if you do ...put specific stipulations under which conditions you'll offer the refund.

For a long time now a big marketing ploy for sales letters has been to state "100% refunds with no questions asked. You're not taking any risk by buying this product because I'll be happy to refund your money in full for any reason." Do NOT put that in your sales letter if you don't want to stand by it when someone asks for a refund. If you do, you're lying.

You can then delete the person from your list and never sell to them again. That's your choice. But don't state you're going to do something and then whine when someone takes you up on what you've said.

I'm glad the OP received her money back. You may or may not like her reason but that's not cause to not honor a "guaranteed" refund policy. If the seller had said, "I'll refund your money if you do....this, this, and this.." that's a different story.

After buying tons of ebooks, etc. I've only asked for one refund. So I'm not supporting serial refunders in anyway. It's stealing.

But don't state in your refund policy that you're willing to do something if you're not willing to follow through.

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Unread 26th August 2011, 07:31 AM   #37
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Default Re: What to do if you can't get a refund?

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Originally Posted by Rose Anderson View Post
Ok...once again I'm confused by some of the answers.

If you don't want to give refunds then don't offer a refund policy. Or if you do ...put specific stipulations under which conditions you'll offer the refund.

For a long time now a big marketing ploy for sales letters has been to state "100% refunds with no questions asked. You're not taking any risk by buying this product because I'll be happy to refund your money in full for any reason." Do NOT put that in your sales letter if you don't want to stand by it when someone asks for a refund. If you do, you're lying.

You can then delete the person from your list and never sell to them again. That's your choice. But don't state you're going to do something and then whine when someone takes you up on what you've said.

I'm glad the OP received her money back. You may or may not like her reason but that's not cause to not honor a "guaranteed" refund policy. If the seller had said, "I'll refund your money if you do....this, this, and this.." that's a different story.

After buying tons of ebooks, etc. I've only asked for one refund. So I'm not supporting serial refunders in anyway. It's stealing.

But don't state in your refund policy that you're willing to do something if you're not willing to follow through.
I agree wholeheartedly with what you're saying, except for that one little part in red. I can't even clearly explain why except that I feel this person is wrong.

They researched what was going on with Amazon (OP has posts in a number of those threads), he or she knew it was risky and bought a WSO about it anyways.

My belief is that this person has the mindset of a "tire Kicker", i.e.; I'll go buy whatever I want and then after I get a chance to look it over, maybe use it, I'll grab a refund and I'll still have the product (if it's digital).

The OP said the product was fine, so it's not a satisfaction issue - he or she just decided to not do whatever was in the product. The problem is the OP got the product, obviously read it and learned from it and then decided it wasn't for him or her.

To me, that's stealing - the OP can't give it back what they got out of it.

If it weren't for the OP's "Fine" comment, I would more than likely take his or her side in a heartbeat. If the OP said it was crap or illegal or anything to justify a refund other than "It's not for me".

I really believe the OP bought the product with every intention of asking for a refund based on this and other threads the OP participated in recently.

People who sell info products are not lending libraries....
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Unread 26th August 2011, 07:32 AM   #38
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Default Re: What to do if you can't get a refund?

My policy has always been to refund a customer who requests a refund as fast as possible. Sure you get some customers that are obviously taking advantage of you, but hey, most of the population are honest with good intentions. I just reckon the ones that are asking for a refund are a) toxic customers or b) will turn into a toxic customer if you do not refund them. By refunding you eliminate the toxic/potentially toxic customers as fast as possible and concentrate on the good customers.

I have had to grit my teeth on many occassions when a person has requested a refund for reasons I know to be 'not right' but I have a clear conscience and say I have offered the best service I possbily can.

With the OP - the reason for the refund has been questioned but from a sellers point of view - what has that person gained for holding off on the refund - a customer that has turned into a 'toxic' customer. By toxic I mean she is telling others to hold off on their purchases and generally is not feeling to kindly towards the seller. The seller was always in a position of nothing to gain and something to lose, which is what has happened.

With a timely refund they still would not have gained alot but probably would have lost a lot less... if that makes sense

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Unread 26th August 2011, 08:11 AM   #39
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Default Re: What to do if you can't get a refund?

Big Mike,
I do see what you're saying. I have not read the OP's other threads so I don't really know all the ends and outs of this situation or the person's intentions when they purchased the product.

I guess my "beef" is not with this particular situation as much as with sales pages that over hype their "easy refund policy" and then act upset when someone actually has the audacity to ask them to live up to their promise. (Just my own little rant)

I still stand behind my personal belief that a "no questions asked refund" should be just that. The OP would have been better off to have given no reason and just asked the seller to stick with their policy.

If the seller feels they're being used then they certainly have the right to never sell to a particular person again. "No shirt, no shoes, no good reason, no service"

I'm done now. Really. I am.

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Unread 26th August 2011, 12:38 PM   #40
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Default Re: What to do if you can't get a refund?

Rose,

I'd have given her a refund without question or argument. I'd have also deleted her from my subscriber list just as quickly.

How we'd handle it is not necessarily a reflection on what we think of her position. And most of the comments are about her approach to the thing, and how she's been advised to deal with the situation.

It's easy for people to take "pro-merchant" or "pro-customer" stances and forget that there are (at least) two sides to every transaction. I think the emphasis should be on dealing fairly and in good faith. That seems to be the primary question here, and there's clearly a large variance in opinions.

That said, if the product was sold here and the seller offered a no questions asked refund policy, we'd ask them to honor it, regardless of the reason offered.


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Unread 26th August 2011, 08:44 PM   #41
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Default Re: What to do if you can't get a refund?

I agree with Warrior activetrader. Write it off & move on. It was only a few bucks right? Probably way less than $20 ?

IMHO, not worth the changes you're puttin' yourself through AND you're wasting valuable time!!!

LIFE IS SHORT!!!!!!

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Unread 26th August 2011, 08:56 PM   #42
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Default Re: What to do if you can't get a refund?

Quote:
Put in a dispute (charge back) with your card if that was used. If it came out of your bank account, do the same as you would if it was your credit card. There is a time limit on that though, so don't dilly dally.
This is bad advice. charge backs are not for refunds. They are for unauthorized charges. If you are in contact with the person you purchased this from it gives him proof that you authorized the charge.

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Unread 26th August 2011, 09:35 PM   #43
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Default Re: What to do if you can't get a refund?

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Originally Posted by Chris Kent View Post
Did the sales page state a refund policy? Let's be clear on this.

Because you may be asking for something you are not entitled to,
I agree...
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Unread 26th August 2011, 10:24 PM   #44
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Default Re: What to do if you can't get a refund?

Paul, point taken. I was only referring to the refund issue. I wasn't approving credit card charge backs or paypal disputes.
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Unread 27th August 2011, 01:05 AM   #45
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Default Re: What to do if you can't get a refund?

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Originally Posted by bloomingrose View Post
However, I am seriously trying to build my business and do not want products that do not fit with my business model
Why are you buying products that don't fit your business model? Sounds like you can't control yourself and that has nothing to do with the seller.

Quote:

My friend is interested in buying one of their other products and I told him to hold off until I see how this shakes down.

I guess people don't realize how this affects their reputation. .
I wouldn't want you nor your friend purchasing from me. I don't like dealing with idiotic customer service requests from people who don't have a clue as to what they want.

You would be doing me a favor not purchasing any of my products.

This is exactly why I went with a no refunds policy. That doesn't stop people from asking. :confused:

I value my time more than some lost sales.

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Unread 27th August 2011, 01:36 AM   #46
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Default Re: What to do if you can't get a refund?

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Originally Posted by Shannon Herod View Post
This is bad advice. charge backs are not for refunds. They are for unauthorized charges. If you are in contact with the person you purchased this from it gives him proof that you authorized the charge.

Shannon
Agreed.

Not to mention the fine it gives to the seller. Especially if you initiate the chargeback without even contacting the seller, in my opinion you become a scammer.

Not that the OP did that, here, but it's been done to me.

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Unread 13th September 2011, 11:39 PM   #47
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Default Re: What to do if you can't get a refund?

Mr. Thomas Belknap you are an interesting person. We have completely different ideas about business. I would happily refund the money of who ever is not pleased with my products, you expect the buyer to know ahead of time exactly what they are buying and whether it meets their needs. Psychically I guess.
I think I just discovered the ugly underbelly of the Warrior Forum.
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Unread 13th September 2011, 11:45 PM   #48
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Default Re: What to do if you can't get a refund?

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Originally Posted by activetrader View Post
Since you said you can't get a refund from this marketer the only other option is to get over it and move on. Write it off as a business expense (as you otherwise would anyway). Don't waste time fighting over a few bucks and focus on building your business instead.
Very well said, I lost money to someone when I paid for training and I literally almost had a heart attack because they made me explode when I kept requesting my money back with no response in return. I eventually concluded that they had taken advantage of me and that I wasn't getting my money back so just keep in mind that you can't travel the road to riches without getting bruised a little, or in most people's cases, a lot...Good luck with finding a good business model though..

Cheers
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Unread 14th September 2011, 12:46 AM   #49
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Default Re: What to do if you can't get a refund?

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Originally Posted by bloomingrose View Post
Mr. Thomas Belknap you are an interesting person. We have completely different ideas about business. I would happily refund the money of who ever is not pleased with my products, you expect the buyer to know ahead of time exactly what they are buying and whether it meets their needs. I think I just discovered the ugly underbelly of the Warrior Forum.
You said you'd happily refund customers if they're not pleased with your products and that's clearly your prerogative.

So why is it that because Thomas disagrees with you and chooses to exercise his prerogative to have a no refund policy that there's an "Ugly Underbelly" to the Warrior Forum?

Many businesses have no refund policies on products, services, sale items, etc. A stated refund policy (whether offering refunds or not) becomes a legally binding condition of the sale.

I had a customer the other day who did exactly what you did. He bought one of our products and then emailed us stating he was just researching this type of product and wanted a refund because he selected something different.

We have a very strict refund policy based on very specific conditions - so he did not get a refund.

Quote:
Psychically I guess.
This comment doesn't wash with me because I read back through some of your earlier posts and you had already commented/asked questions in other threads about Amazon. You knew going into the purchase that you couldn't do it, but you chose to buy anyways.

To me, that's a bad faith purchase...that's the real "Ugly Underbelly" of what happens to marketers on the WF.

It's exactly why businesses like Thomas' and my own are so rigid about refunds. We've been there long enough to know from experience that slapping up a "No Questions Asked Guarantee" always results in a much higher refund rate from tire kickers and those with buyer's remorse.

What I do isn't the least bit unethical either - because it's stated clearly on the sales page and the customer makes an informed choice.
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Unread 14th September 2011, 01:00 AM   #50
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Default Re: What to do if you can't get a refund?

if its through paypal then too bad. cos paypal dont cover such stuff.

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