Do You Delete Refundees From Your Buyer's List?

13 years ago

Depends on if they are an ass when they refund to be honest.

Even though they refunded, they did choose to be one of my customers at some point.

The serial refunders are automatically removed no matter what.

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sbucciarel

Banned 13 years ago

I put refunders on my ban list in DLGuard so that I never deal with them again. I sell websites and have no tolerance for refund fraud.

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Rus Sells

13 years ago

Question,

If you design a site for some one, get paid, deliver the site, and then have to issue a refund, wouldn't it be copyright infringement if they do not return all files and continue to use the site?

I think it would be and I'd just send a DCMA notice to them and their hosting company.

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

I put refunders on my ban list in DLGuard so that I never deal with them again. I sell websites and have no tolerance for refund fraud.

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sbucciarel

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Rus Sells

Question,

If you design a site for some one, get paid, deliver the site, and then have to issue a refund, wouldn't it be copyright infringement if they do not return all files and continue to use the site?

I think it would be and I'd just send a DCMA notice to them and their hosting company.

Yeah .. it would be copyright infringement and on my mobile design site, that's in my TOS that if the site is not paid for in full, you don't own the copyright to anything except the content that is provided to me.

For my plrsites, I never know what domain they are going on, so it would be difficult to issue a DMCA, so an instant ban is the best way to go for me.

I literally had one guy downloading in bulk and refunding as fast as each download completed. I saw all these disputes rolling in. As fast as I could I banned him in DLGuard and emailed him. He "claimed" that he did not purchase anything from me.

As soon as the ban was in place, I started to get all these "banned customer attempted to purchase" notices from DLGuard, so even after I contacted him, he was still trying, unless his Paypal acct was actually compromised and he did nothing to increase security, like changing the password.

My customers know exactly what they are getting before they buy.

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Rus Sells

13 years ago

It seems you'd be able to place something in the code of your sites that you can actually search for on the search engines to find the footprint. Then you'd know what domains they go on. ( for your plr sites that is ).

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

Yeah .. it would be copyright infringement and on my mobile design site, that's in my TOS that if the site is not paid for in full, you don't own the copyright to anything except the content that is provided to me.

For my plrsites, I never know what domain they are going on, so it would be difficult to issue a DMCA, so an instant ban is the best way to go for me.

I literally had one guy downloading in bulk and refunding as fast as each download completed. I saw all these disputes rolling in. As fast as I could I banned him in DLGuard and emailed him. He "claimed" that he did not purchase anything from me.

As soon as the ban was in place, I started to get all these "banned customer attempted to purchase" notices from DLGuard, so even after I contacted him, he was still trying, unless his Paypal acct was actually compromised and he did nothing to increase security, like changing the password.

My customers know exactly what they are getting before they buy.

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Scott Kennedy

13 years ago

I blacklist them completely whether they are an ass or asked politely. I've dealt with people who have asked politely for a refund, then continue to do the same only minutes after purchasing my other products so don't be fooled.

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tpw

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Scott Kennedy

I blacklist them completely whether they are an ass or asked politely. I've dealt with people who have asked politely for a refund, then continue to do the same only minutes after purchasing my other products so don't be fooled.

So, if I every dislike one of your products and refund it... I am forever tarred and feathered as a "serial refunder", even though I only refunded one product?

LOL

I don't brand someone a "serial refunder" until they refund on me twice.

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sbucciarel

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by tpw

So, if I every dislike one of your products and refund it... I am forever tarred and feathered as a "serial refunder", even though I only refunded one product?

LOL

I don't brand someone a "serial refunder" until they refund on me twice.

My products are websites. I've had people download several of them, refunding as fast as they paid for them. They know what they're buying and have seen a demo. They're nothing but a pack of thieves. Even if it's just one ... I have no interest in doing business with them again. Ever.

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tpw

13 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

My products are websites. I've had people download several of them, refunding as fast as they paid for them. They know what they're buying and have seen a demo. They're nothing but a pack of thieves. Even if it's just one ... I have no interest in doing business with them again. Ever.

There are exceptions.

I won't even offer refunds on software, and I definitely would not offer any refunds on websites.

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Mohammad Afaq

13 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

My products are websites. I've had people download several of them, refunding as fast as they paid for them. They know what they're buying and have seen a demo. They're nothing but a pack of thieves. Even if it's just one ... I have no interest in doing business with them again. Ever.

It all comes down to one question:

Do you advertise refunds on your sales letters?

If you do and you still ban them for asking for a refund then I very respectfully disagree with your approach (not that it makes a difference in your business. It's your business and how you run it is upto you)

EDIT: Also if I were you, I would include a "No Refund Policy" in my salesletters to save myself future headaches (just a suggestion of course, not trying to sting anyone

)

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Scott Kennedy

13 years ago

Originally Posted by tpw

So, if I every dislike one of your products and refund it... I am forever tarred and feathered as a "serial refunder", even though I only refunded one product?

LOL

I don't brand someone a "serial refunder" until they refund on me twice.

See the following;

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

My products are websites. I've had people download several of them, refunding as fast as they paid for them. They know what they're buying and have seen a demo. They're nothing but a pack of thieves. Even if it's just one ... I have no interest in doing business with them again. Ever.

Seems as though you changed your tune pretty quick in response to the above post. If you refund one of my products I don't brand you as a serial refunder. But blacklisting those people helps prevent them turning into one. I do this when I'm selling scripts (software) and complete sites I've built up.

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kenmichaels 13 years ago

this is interesting, i have a slight twist on the same question .

two days ago some one bought form me, then did a paypal dispute.
and in pay pal says, " support was no good, and product does not do what it says it will do " we sent him 4 emails and 3 skype msgs, he never ever said anything just canceled. So i refunded him and turned the software off.
after about an hour. he sends an email and says " i canceled the refund , because i figured out how to use it now".... honest mistake. or someone trying to get over .. and now he wants back in... i haven't decided. what do you guys think? ( i do know i have never ever had a dispute thru pay pal before, out of months and months of transactions, so just that alone pissed me off.
messed up my perfect record )
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tpw

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Scott Kennedy

I blacklist them completely whether they are an ass or asked politely. I've dealt with people who have asked politely for a refund, then continue to do the same only minutes after purchasing my other products so don't be fooled.

Originally Posted by tpw

So, if I every dislike one of your products and refund it... I am forever tarred and feathered as a "serial refunder", even though I only refunded one product?

LOL

I don't brand someone a "serial refunder" until they refund on me twice.

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

My products are websites. I've had people download several of them, refunding as fast as they paid for them. They know what they're buying and have seen a demo. They're nothing but a pack of thieves. Even if it's just one ... I have no interest in doing business with them again. Ever.

Originally Posted by tpw

There are exceptions.

I won't even offer refunds on software, and I definitely would not offer any refunds on websites.

Originally Posted by Scott Kennedy

Seems as though you changed your tune pretty quick in response to the above post. If you refund one of my products I don't brand you as a serial refunder. But blacklisting those people helps prevent them turning into one. I do this when I'm selling scripts (software) and complete sites I've built up.

No not really.

All of my information products do have refunds available.

None of my software products have refunds available.

If I were selling websites, then no refunds would be available for that either.

When selling software, and if I were to sell websites, no refunds would be offered. If you are offering refunds on those things, then it is your fault that someone refunded, not the customer whom you just blacklisted.

So the question is that if you offer refunds for software or websites, and I take you up on your refund offer, should I automatically be blocked from buying, OR are there exceptions to the rule going both ways?

But THANK YOU for saving me from myself. If you offer me a money-back guarantee on your software or websites, and I take you up on it once, I won't get the chance to refund twice.

And if I refund on your information products, you are saving me from myself again, by not letting me discover if my problem with your product was the product or you. :p

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Rachel Incoll 13 years ago

I only delete them if they're serial refunders, were rude, gave a ridiculous reason for wanting a refund or opened a PayPal dispute instead of contacting me first....something I really don't like.

So that probably works out to 80% to 90% of refunders! They're such a small proportion of customers that create a lot more work & hassle so they're just not worth having on the list.

Cheers

Rach
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cheilman

13 years ago

I would not remove them from the list and ban them unless they refund twice also or if they ask for a refund right a way.

Sometimes you buy something with an idea of what the product is and when you get it, it might not fit your business model or wasn't what you expected it to be.

Which means maybe your next product will be perfect for them and you will make a sale off this person, so I wouldn't unless this is a 2nd time or a right a way refunder.

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tpw

13 years ago

Originally Posted by cheilman

I would not remove them from the list and ban them unless they refund twice also or if they ask for a refund right a way.

Sometimes you buy something with an idea of what the product is and when you get it, it might not fit your business model or wasn't what you expected it to be.

Which means maybe your next product will be perfect for them and you will make a sale off this person, so I wouldn't unless this is a 2nd time or a right a way refunder.

I have had this happen myself.

People refund one product, then buy several products from me later.

No sense in shooting yourself in the foot over hyper-paranoia.

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Rose Anderson

13 years ago

There's a writer's site that I've purchased 7 or 8 products from over the years. I asked for a refund for one. (The only refund I've ever asked for on a digital product.) If they had dumped me off the list for that one refund they would have lost a lot of sales.

However, if a person asks for refunds repeatedly then that's another story. Dump them.

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Mac the Knife

13 years ago

Some of my best clients were first my WORST. If you are so quick to label, you are inviting others to do the same for you. Those that operate with a "Burn and Churn" mentality likely reap what they sow. I have reached out to folks personally after a refund request, or a client who wishes to discontinue services and have gotten referrals, future sales, and friends. The harsh kill em all mentality is BEAT.

Mac the Knife

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Mohammad Afaq

13 years ago

No I don't.

I think refunds are a part of my business and if I offer them then I honor them.

Also, a person doesn't fall in my serial refunder category until after the fourth or fifth refund.

Am I stupid? Some would say.

But honestly why would you "ban" someone for doing something you "advertised" YOURSELF.

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SUPER Louie

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Mac the Knife

Some of my best clients were first my WORST. If you are so quick to label, you are inviting others to do the same for you. Those that operate with a "Burn and Churn" mentality likely reap what they sow. I have reached out to folks personally after a refund request, or a client who wishes to discontinue services and have gotten referrals, future sales, and friends. The harsh kill em all mentality is BEAT.

Mac the Knife

Originally Posted by Mohammad Afaq

No I don't.

I think refunds are a part of my business and if I offer them then I honor them.

Also, a person doesn't fall in my serial refunder category until after the fourth or fifth refund.

Am I stupid? Some would say.

But honestly why would you "ban" someone for doing something you "advertised" YOURSELF.

I completely agree. Why would you ban if you gave the option.to refund in the first place

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E. Brian Rose

13 years ago

If a repeat buyer asks for a refund for one of my products, I do not hold that against them... however, if a repeat buyer becomes a repeat refunder, then they are usually taken off of my list.

"There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again." ~ George W. Bush

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Zeus66

13 years ago

It depends on what I'm selling and that person's history with me as a buyer. I don't ban on the first "offense" but I do track the refunder's info. On the second refund they get the banhammer.

On this topic, we all really need to start a site or a forum or something where we can share serial refunders' info around so they can be mass banned. I try to share with my contacts on Skype, but that's a tiny number in the big scheme of things.

John

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Miguel Oliveira

13 years ago

I remove them after 3 serial refunds or if they are jerks when asking for the refund. Like others have said, I've had people who asked for a refund on the first product become excellent clients, which they wouldn't had I removed them in the first place.

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Michael D Forbes

13 years ago

Can I pretty please have a refund for this thread? Some of you are just big meanies!

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Snow_Predator

13 years ago

Thanks for your input all. It seems there are some of you who ban em after the first refund, and others who allow for 2 or even 3 refunds before doing so. There is also a mention of a*holes who ask for refunds impolitely.

I think I'll probably stick to banning people who request for 2 refunds, and those who are impolite on their first refund.

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MValmont 13 years ago

No, not at all
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WorkitSmart

13 years ago

They are/were Buyers.. so leave them on.

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Snow_Predator

13 years ago

Originally Posted by chungo

I wouldn't delete anyone from my list if they don't unsubscribe for themselves. I would rather get to work on customer support right away and ask the reasons for their refund in a respectful and kind manner. All of your customers should be attended respectively and in an orderly fashion. They are the people that keep you in business, to say the least.

The list you build is key to keeping your promotion active. Email marketing, as you may all know, is a high conversion platform and deserves to be respected and nurtured.

Hope it helps!

Cheers.

I think this is what we should all aspire to. Nice one.

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fitz10

13 years ago

It would depend. If it's someone who has a good reason for refunding I would definitely keep them. If they refunded two minutes after their purchase, probably not. By automating things you might be dropping people off your list who did something like accidentally purchase the product twice (happened multiple times in my latest WSO so not that unlikely).

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Annie Dennis

13 years ago

Depends on what products your marketing and whether or not you think the person is asking for a refund for legitimate reasons or not. I've had to ask for refunds in the past, and I've been on people's lists where I haven't purchased anything for years and then wound up purchasing a $10,000 course (Corey Rudl), so I wouldn't be too quick to remove people from your list ;-)

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MartinBuckley

13 years ago

Snow_Predator,

I don't delete people who request a refund for the first time, unless they give me a bogus reason why they want a refund.

Now, if the same person buys one of my product 2-3 times and requests a refund then i delete then no matter what their reason.

Here is what i try to do to keep a refunded customer happy and try to get my money back. I issue them a full refund and send them one of my other info products for free as a sorry you didn't like my product gift, but i promote extra backend sales in the free info product i give them in hope of getting my money back and maybe even two sales to get me back on top.

Just thought i would share what i do, that seems to work pretty good for me.

All the best,

Martin