PayPal Dispute Need Input On How To Handle

[Tracy Yates]

Okay, so here's the deal.

I run a digital product membership site. Monthly membership costs are $9.95 per month and members get instant and full access to all the downloadable MRR and PLR products inside for their payment.

So, I get a legitimate email from PayPal just a few moments ago of a member who I have never heard from asking about canceling their membership and they are trying to retrieve 3 months worth of membership subscription payments in one go and claiming that their account was used without their prior authorization.

How can I provide proof to PayPal that I have delivered on my end as this is not a physical product and that is the only way that PayPal will accept proof?

I hope someone knows what to do, otherwise it's bite the bullet and be out about $30.

Thanks for all responses.


Tracy

[Debbie Songster]

does your site track logins and IP's
Does your site require that the user create an account with their full name and address?

If you have that information and can prove the person used the site you might stand a chance of winning.

"Unauthorized use of my account" - thats the new phrase for people who don't want to pay.

Of course It could be legit.

All you can do is supply the info to Paypal that the person logged in and downloaded material (if you can supply the proof) and see what happens.

Don't waste a bunch of time on it. It hurts at first but then the sting goes away....

[Debbie Songster]

Paypal always protect seller and they hate refunds.

Protects the seller?
What glue are you sniffing?

I think you meant to say protects the buyer

[Tracy Yates]

Here's the problem though, PayPal inside the dispute area doesn't recognize this dispute as a "digital" item and they believe it is a physical item. Therefore I need to provide some kind of proof that I "shipped" the item, which is impossible since it's a digital membership.

I have sent them an email and hopefully they will better understand what is happening here.

Tracy

[axeray]

You need to prove you have delivered on your end.

[Tim_Carter]

Yes Paypal protects the SELLEr on digital products however on an invalid card usage you will likely need to be tracking ip addresses.

Call them and tell them the case is a digital delivery. They may end it right there.

[Tracy Yates]

Wow, what a break! This person actually sent me an email stating that they have emailed me repeatedly to cancel their subscription. Wouldn't this prove that they knowingly signed up and would negate their claim of "unauthorized use"?

Tracy

[Debbie Songster]

Good news Tracy
You just won your case

Some customers don't know when to shut up. They just screwed up their own case.

Yup - send that to paypal and any other proof such as downloads or visits to your site.

Looks like you should win this one.

[Charles E. White]

Originally Posted by ongdaniel77

I am not sniffing glue.
Digital products Paypal will favour Seller.
You're ignorant.

Yeah, welcome to the forum! You're off to a good start!

[Tim_Carter]

Yup - you just won. Forward to Paypal.

[Tracy Yates]

I sent a copy of the email to the pending_rev***** email address PayPal sent me.

I will wait to hear back.


Tracy

[Dixiebelle]

Originally Posted by Tracy Yates

Wow, what a break! This person actually sent me an email stating that they have emailed me repeatedly to cancel their subscription. Wouldn't this prove that they knowingly signed up and would negate their claim of "unauthorized use"?

Tracy

************************************************** **

All you have to do is forward that email to Paypal, and tell them that this is the first time you have heard from the buyer. This will prove that they actually signed up.

Paypal has a place on a customer's account page where they can cancel any ongoing subscriptions. They expect the customer to cancel their own subscriptions - not leave it to you or Paypal to cancel for them.

You will win.

Dixie

[R Hagel]

Originally Posted by ongdaniel77

Thanks for the encouragement.
How come the lady insult me when i offer good advice.
I am speaking from experience.

It wasn't just what you said in the post. It's also the fact that you posted like 6 or 7 times in this thread, when 1 or 2 posts would suffice. It looks like you're trying to drive up your post count by breaking one post into a series of one-line posts.

Cheers,
Becky

[Tracy Yates]

ong,

While I appreciate your enthusiasm and helpful replies, it does state in the email that I received from PayPal to respond/reply to that particular email. Which is what I did.

I also sent an email off to them via the customer support email through their website as I was logged into my account. So hopefully something gets through. If not, it's pick up the phone time.


Tracy

[Dixiebelle]

Originally Posted by R Hagel

It wasn't just what you said in the post. It's also the fact that you posted like 6 or 7 times in this thread, when 1 or 2 posts would suffice. It looks like you're trying to drive up your post count by breaking one post into a series of one-line posts.

Cheers,
Becky

************************************************** ******
Actually, that's not true. It doesn't matter how many times you post in the same thread, it only gives you one point for the entire thread. If you go back and look at the 2 posts I have made to this thread, you will see that they both have the same post count.

I thought we were all going to start showing each other more respect. Would it not have been better to tell the new member that this is a community, and should be treated as such.

As for the seasoned warrior, she should have known better.

We all need to start checking our emotions at the keyboard, so that Allan will continue providing us with the best forum on the internet.

Just my 2 cents.

Dixie

[Kim Standerline]

That's because the buyer was crafty when he filed the dispute and listed it as a digital product. He obviously knows they don't play ball when its digital

I'd direct paypal to your sales page to show them it's digital download.

Having said that, is the stress worth it for $30. If this was me, I'd grit my teeth, put a hex on him and refund him, He's a slimeball, and he will get his comuppence eventually if u believe in Karma

Kim

Originally Posted by Tracy Yates

Here's the problem though, PayPal inside the dispute area doesn't recognize this dispute as a "digital" item and they believe it is a physical item. Therefore I need to provide some kind of proof that I "shipped" the item, which is impossible since it's a digital membership.

I have sent them an email and hopefully they will better understand what is happening here.

Tracy

[Scott Million]

Tracy, let us know if you win! I'll pop a bottle for 'ya

[Tracy Yates]

I thought about that Kim and I'll tell you what, if it comes down to it and PayPal sides with the buyer on this one, well, it's just a little loss for me and I'll get over it.

I just feel like it's a rotten thing to do when you obviously know how to read and can see clearly that there is a 'no refund' policy in place unless I'm contacted directly and there's a clear problem that I'm always willing to work with my subscribers personally if such things should arise.

And, if I can get the point across that digital resellers such as ourselves aren't going to pander to this type of behavior then maybe it will resonate with at least one person not to do it in the future to someone else that's a decent and respectable marketer/business owner.


Tracy

[Kim Standerline]

I know how you feel Tracey, and I know it's not about the money. These people just piss you off big time. I've fought over paltry amounts before now because it's made me angry that slimeballs try and rip me off.

I just put it down to experience now, if he's that hard up for $30, then god help him, he will never be a success.

If you do decide to refund the tosspot, make him wait awhile, I believe PP give u so long to respond, so give it the max

Kim

Originally Posted by Tracy Yates

I thought about that Kim and I'll tell you what, if it comes down to it and PayPal sides with the buyer on this one, well, it's just a little loss for me and I'll get over it.

I just feel like it's a rotten thing to do when you obviously know how to read and can see clearly that there is a 'no refund' policy in place unless I'm contacted directly and there's a clear problem that I'm always willing to work with my subscribers personally if such things should arise.

And, if I can get the point across that digital resellers such as ourselves aren't going to pander to this type of behavior then maybe it will resonate with at least one person not to do it in the future to someone else that's a decent and respectable marketer/business owner.


Tracy

[AverageGuy]

no, do not wait. tell paypal, it is a membership, customers access the materials every month. you can provide this, this, this and that to prove the buyer logined/used it. And also tell paypal, it is an intangible product. And tell paypal, the buyer just wants to get it for free.

let paypal investigate it and make decision.



david

[LisaM]

Tracy good luck with the dispute. It looks as though you have enough information to at least show paypal that it is a digital product. Paypal usually does side with the seller on digital product issues.

I know it probably burns you up that people work so hard to get something for nothing, but Kim is right... just put a hex on them and let it go. It's not worth the energy taken away from your business.

Best of luck

[Johnny Slater]

Tracy... inside the resolution area you have places where you can either leave messages for your customer or for PayPal. At the beginning of any and all messages you leave there start off by saying "This was a digital purchase for access to a protected members area of my website. All product delivery is done by digital means."

This will alert PayPal that the purchase was a digital one and not covered under buyer protection. Your membership software should track the users IP address. Make sure to include this in all messages as well. Try to give PayPal as much information as you possibly can to show that the customer did actually access the product.

In the case of customers claiming someone else used their account without their permission you can't count on PayPal instantly ruling in your favor. You have to give them as much information as you can to verify that the customer did actually make the purchase and did access your content.

[Kim Standerline]

I did say wait if she decided to refund, otherwise of course she wouldn't

I think Johnny probably gave you the best advice

Originally Posted by AverageGuy

no, do not wait. tell paypal, it is a membership, customers access the materials every month. you can provide this, this, this and that to prove the buyer logined/used it. And also tell paypal, it is an intangible product. And tell paypal, the buyer just wants to get it for free.

let paypal investigate it and make decision.



david

[Tracy Yates]

Johnny, what option should I select then as they only give me three when I click on the "Respond" button:

1. Provide Shipping Information
2. I have not shipped the item and will refund the payment
3. I have refunded the payment for this transaction

And, if I select #1 then these radio button options pop up:

I can provide online tracking information

or

I can upload or fax proof that the item was shipped


Should I choose the latter and then explain what happened along with a copy of the buyers email they sent to me? Not too sure how to handle one of these Unauthorized claims as I haven't had one before.

Plus, this person did 3 Unauthorized Claims within minutes of each other and about 20 minutes after this, they finally canceled their subscription. Yikes!


Tracy

[Johnny Slater]

I would click the first option then go through explaining about it being a digital product. I'm not saying for sure that is the best option but it is what I would do myself, and have done in the past.

[AverageGuy]

as I remeber, I used the late one and explained everything in detail. I told paypal, it is a software (in my case), no shipping needed, the buyer logined and downloaded.

david

[Tracy Yates]

Great. Looks like I can't leave a stinking reply. PayPal's site keeps telling me to come back in a half hour and try again because my last action could not be completed.

Guess I'll try again

Oops, nevermind. I was trying to send multiple messages on one of the disputes instead of one to each of them. Problem solved.

Now all that's left is to see what happens.


Tracy

[Charles E. White]

Tracy, Good luck with this, PayPal has changed quite a bit along with eBay in the last year.

[Charles E. White]

[QUOTE=Dixiebelle;415943]************************************************** ******
Actually, that's not true. It doesn't matter how many times you post in the same thread, it only gives you one point for the entire thread. If you go back and look at the 2 posts I have made to this thread, you will see that they both have the same post count.

Actually, it is true! It updates both counts. Look at your count now and then post again, it updates all your posts to the highest count.

[IMChick]

Please post and let us know what happens.

It seems as if you have enough of the right kind of information to defeat the claim. The key is to be organized and list it all in outline form--think of as an outline that's simple enough to get by explaining it to someone in line at the supermarket.

On the one hand, it's not the $, on the other hand, if you have the time, don't let someone dishonest put it over on you because you don't know how to fight back.

[jettdream]

Hey Tracy:

I sell digital products through PayPal and have had occasion where buyers start a dispute saying the product wasn't what was described, etc. and they are attempting to get their money back. I was upset the first time it happened as the buyer was complaining about something clearly stated in the pre-sales copy. I got all the back-up emails etc. together, sent it off but then called and spoke to a PayPal rep directly. As soon as I explained that it was a digital product, the guy said that they cannot prove whether or not it is what was said and that buyers cannot win those disputes. He released my funds on the spot.

Normally, if a buyer has a dispute and they let me know and it seems on the up and up, I'll refund right away but this similar scenario has happened 3 times in the last 6 months. The other 2 times, I called and got the same result from the PayPal rep.

To call them, scroll down to the bottom of a PayPal page, click Contact Us, then Call us. It will give you a PIN and a phone number. Call the number and reference the PIN.

Hope this helps.

Scott