The Reason You Are Not Making Enough Money Is Because Your Traffic & Strategy Sucks

by tpw
17 replies
I was just talking to a friend online, who said something that made my ears perk up.

He was talking about how much money some businesses really pay for leads.

Yes, some lead companies are jumping up and down in their chairs right now, screaming at their monitors telling me to STFU!!

If your traffic was better quality and much higher volume, you could be making more money in lead generation, by going directly to the buyers of those leads.

Lead generation is good money for those who really know what is going on behind the scenes, and I am going to give you a peak.

Some CPA companies make a commission when you generate a lead for the companies buying leads.

Some CPA companies make the full-rate by handling all of the lead generation process, including scrubbing the lists, and selling those premium leads directly to the merchants.

The Lead Gen business is a numbers game of course, but you have no idea the size of the numbers involved in the game.

There are two Lead Generation business models, and that will be important to this discussion:
  1. CPA Leads;
  2. Bird-Dog Leads.

CPA Leads (Cost Per Action) are leads where the buyer pays $0.10 to $30 dollars for a name, number, address, email, etc., or any combination thereof.

Bird-Dog Leads are leads where the buyer pays the big dollars for people who actually convert to buyers.

With CPA Leads, we get paid less per lead, because the vendor or the middle man has to clean the list (scrub the list). In essence, what they are talking about here is eliminating the false positives. There are people who got on the list, but are not actually in the vendors target audience.

For example, if you are collecting mortgage leads, the person whose name you have must actually be looking to buy a house and qualified to receive a loan.

If they are not looking to buy a house, and they are not qualified to get a loan, then the mortgage broker cannot sell them a loan, right?

Do you see how this works? There must be a good chance of converting that name, phone number, address or email to an actual sale at the end of the process, in order for the lead to be worth the money the advertiser wants to pay for it.

If an insurance agent is buying the lead, they have to look at how much they can afford to spend to get one paying customer, then they have to look at their conversion rate to know how many people they must talk to to find one new customer.

Everyone in this process in looking to make a profit for the money they spend on lead generation.

At one time, Amazon said it was spending $18 to get one new customer, and it did not make its investment back until after the customer bought its fourth book!! So the ability to generate repeat sales is important to its advertising model.

I spoke one time to an insurance agent who was willing to spend as much on advertising as he would get in return for one person buying one policy.

In other words, if he spent $700 on advertising, he would want to earn back on that promotion $700+ in new policies written.

Of course, I don't know what the markup is on insurance, so I am guessing that one customer would need to stay with the agency for 18 months, before the agency started profiting from the new customer, OR the agency would need to pick up 3 new customers, and it would have earned its investment back after 6 months.

These examples show you how the Lead Generation business works.

Some CPA companies are working as Bird Dogs, letting their affiliates generate the leads, then they must scrub the list, before handing the list to its client.

Other CPA companies just make a commission equal to that of the affiliate, but the buyer has to scrub the list.

Either way, the buyer is generally paying big money to generate one valid lead.

I was talking to my buddy today on the phone.

He told me about a fellow who buys leads that he knows. The guy works for a major corporation near where my buddy lives, and the guy told him that if he could generate good quality traffic in volume, that the guy's company would pay a lot of money for those leads -- $900 per qualified lead!!

The guy said his company pays Google Adwords $20 million per month for advertising to generate those leads it needs to keep the cash registers ringing!!

The guy also mentioned a company that is a competitor, that I am certain everyone in the United States has heard about, who pays $1000 per qualified lead.

You Can Make More Money IF you increase the quality and volume of the leads you generate!!

My point is that if you can generate better quality traffic in volume, then you can make more money from the leads that you generate for others!!

If you can increase the quality of leads you generate, you might be able to bypass a level or two of scrubbing, which in turn will increase what people are willing to pay you for leads.

If you can replicate that lead generation on volume, then you might be able to talk directly to the end-buyer of your leads.

It is not important that I share what industry my buddy's friend represents; it is the story that is important.

After all, I know off the top of my head maybe a dozen industries where companies pay several hundred dollars for scrubbed leads. BECAUSE in those industries, one transaction is worth several thousand or tens of thousands of dollars!!

My advice to all of you who truly want access to the big bucks available online....

Stop thinking about how you can make $20 or $100 this week, and start treating your online activities like it was a real business!! Because for a lot of people, this online marketing stuff is a real business, with the potential of driving hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars in yearly revenues.

If you are busy chasing $20 bills, you are missing the big picture!!


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#cpa #cpa affiliates #lead generation #leads
  • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
    The guy said his company pays Google Adwords $20 million per month for advertising to generate those leads it needs to keep the cash registers ringing!!
    Kind of puts some of those folks who were ranting about Google not wanting their $1,000 or even $10,000 a month Adwords accounts, and predicting the demise of Google because of it in a new light, doesn't it?

    Otherwise, what you say is the long way around to a simple truth...

    Provide more value, command a higher return...
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    • Profile picture of the author ExRat
      Hi tpw,

      After all, I know off the top of my head maybe a dozen industries where companies pay several hundred dollars for scrubbed leads. BECAUSE in those industries, one transaction is worth several thousand or tens of thousands of dollars!!

      My advice to all of you who truly want access to the big bucks available online....
      Check out Chris Rempel and what he's doing (don't skip the comments section, if you're interested and want a fuller picture.)
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      Roger Davis

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      • Profile picture of the author tpw
        Originally Posted by ExRat View Post

        Hi tpw,

        Check out Chris Rempel and what he's doing (don't skip the comments section, if you're interested and want a fuller picture.)

        Thanks for the head's up Roger. It is quite interesting, showing that even I was thinking small!!!
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        Bill Platt, Oklahoma USA, PlattPublishing.com
        Publish Coloring Books for Profit (WSOTD 7-30-2015)
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        • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
          Originally Posted by tpw View Post

          Thanks for the head's up Roger. It is quite interesting, showing that even I was thinking small!!!
          Ditto that!
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      • Profile picture of the author 1960Texan
        Originally Posted by ExRat View Post

        Hi tpw,

        Check out Chris Rempel and what he's doing (don't skip the comments section, if you're interested and want a fuller picture.)
        Wow, and thanks for the head-up about the comments section. Lot's of great information in this post and the links you shared.

        Will
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    • Profile picture of the author MatthewNeer
      Amen!

      Thanks for sharing bro, this was awesome!
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  • Profile picture of the author Kevin_Hutto
    While I agree with you 100% and personally have a lead business... The dude lied about the 20Mil a month unless the company was ASK.com - they are the biggest SEM spender right now at $190k a day...
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    • Profile picture of the author J Bold
      Originally Posted by Kevin_Hutto View Post

      While I agree with you 100% and personally have a lead business... The dude lied about the 20Mil a month unless the company was ASK.com - they are the biggest SEM spender right now at $190k a day...
      Am I missing something?

      He said 20mil spent on Google Adwords = PPC. He was talking about PPC ad spend, not SEM.
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      • Profile picture of the author tpw
        Originally Posted by Kevin_Hutto View Post

        While I agree with you 100% and personally have a lead business... The dude lied about the 20Mil a month unless the company was ASK.com - they are the biggest SEM spender right now at $190k a day...
        Originally Posted by redicelander View Post

        Am I missing something?

        He said 20mil spent on Google Adwords = PPC. He was talking about PPC ad spend, not SEM.

        Joshua is correct....

        I don't know where you get those numbers or why you would have faith in them.

        190k is $3.8 million per month.

        SEM (Search Engine Marketing) is supposed to be an all-inclusive number to represent SEO (Search Engine Optimization) and PPC (Pay Per Click) advertising.

        I am afraid that you are either confusing a reference to SEO with SEM, or the person whose word you are taking has their facts wrong.

        What the guy said precisely is that he, "personally signs $20 million checks to Google."

        I assumed that to mean by the month.

        If my numbers are wrong, then perhaps what he did not say is that he doesn't pay that much every single month, but rather, when they send checks to Google. :confused:

        While I may have hosed the numbers, your numbers are wrong too...

        from June 2010 internal Google Adwords documents:


        Source

        In the above-mentioned story from Barry Schwartz at Search Engine Land, concerning the leaked Google documents:

        AT&T spent over $8 million in June 2010, Expedia almost $6 million, Amazon $5.85 million and eBay $4.25 million. eBay is an interesting number to me, because there were rumors it was more like $26 million per month, we do know eBay did slow down some of their Google ads for a while.
        I think it is safe to assume that certain advertisers scale up and down, according to the time of year and what exactly they are advertising.

        If the $26 million per month number about Ebay ever held any merit, then the $20 million I was told today may have been real...

        Whatever the truth, this was a "leaked document", which means that people don't get to see inside of Google Adwords very often, and a one month snapshot is hardly a reliable picture of the nature and reality of Google Adwords spending year around.
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        Bill Platt, Oklahoma USA, PlattPublishing.com
        Publish Coloring Books for Profit (WSOTD 7-30-2015)
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        • Profile picture of the author MattVit
          I have to ask why your friend's neighbour didn't reveal what company he worked for. It's not really something you keep secret. He isn't a spy. He's an employee of a large company... :rolleyes:

          I would find it extremely surprising if you, or anyone here, actually believed his claims of his company spending 20 million per month. It brings doubt to that section in your article.

          Otherwise, a good post.
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          • Profile picture of the author tpw
            Originally Posted by MattVit View Post

            I have to ask why your friend's neighbour didn't reveal what company he worked for. It's not really something you keep secret. He isn't a spy. He's an employee of a large company... :rolleyes:

            I would find it extremely surprising if you, or anyone here, actually believed his claims of his company spending 20 million per month. It brings doubt to that section in your article.

            Otherwise, a good post.

            He did reveal it to my friend. It is no secret to my friend.

            And my friend told me the name of the company as well.

            I chose not to share the name of the company in this public forum, because if I did reveal it, the people in this forum might light up the company's switch board for years to come.

            If the fact that I hid the name of the company from you makes the story less believable to you, then so be it.
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            Bill Platt, Oklahoma USA, PlattPublishing.com
            Publish Coloring Books for Profit (WSOTD 7-30-2015)
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  • Profile picture of the author jgant
    I just finished a second deal with a local business with this model. I get the leads and sell them directly to my client. Commissions range $250 to $500 with bonuses on volume, a flat monthly consulting fee, and a percentage on the backend for new customers. Took a few months to arrange, but I'll be underway shortly.

    Look local and figure out some local businesses who are prepared to pay hundreds or thousands of dollars for a new customer. Granted, my model isn't for leads, but actual customers. However, the concept is more or less the same.

    Once you have a system up and running for one business, duplicate the process in other geographic locations or with a non-competitor in the same region. I agree to not do this for competitors of my clients.

    I'm really looking forward to the PPC angle. The commissions are big enough that PPC should be decently profitable as well.

    It's a win/win. I was able to sell the clients mainly on the fact that they pay me only when they get clients (other than the consulting fee for exclusivity, which is not much compared to overall value of the commissions).

    Anyway, I'm about to launch shortly ... a week or two.

    Also, no affiliates to compete with. Your clients are your clients and they aren't hiring a fleet of people to do it for them. That's not to say there isn't competition. Level of competition will depend on the industry and location.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dee Odus
    At one time, Amazon said it was spending $18 to get one new customer, and it did not make its investment back until after the customer bought its fourth book!! So the ability to generate repeat sales is important to its advertising model.
    Thanks for the useful post, Eban pagan was paying his affiliates more money than he was making per sale on the product.
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  • Profile picture of the author DIABL0
    I use to do exactly what you are talking about. But these days it's not worth the time and sometimes the hassles that come with dealing directly with the buyer if I can generate the lead and be paid 90% of the actual purchase price by going through a CPA network, lead aggregator, etc...
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  • Profile picture of the author manny2513
    WOw what an interesting thread. Thanks a lot
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  • Profile picture of the author WebPen
    Wow that is great stuff.

    Some guys have been promoting (and doing) lead generation forever. I guess this is just another sign that it can really work.

    And I'm guessing that those companies paying out $1,000 per lead don't care if it came from Craigslist, offline, facebook, etc. They just care that the lead is high quality and converts for them!
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    • Profile picture of the author ShayB
      One of my "real" jobs was National Leads Coordinator for an insurance company.

      I generated leads, and also screened them.

      Lots of work (this as before I knew about IM), but it paid well. Very well.

      Using IM, I can imagine this could be an incredibly lucrative (and less labor-intensive) setup - and a win/win for the leads generator and the business.
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