Sexual Harassment from Clients

My wife think so too. Even his username corresponds the way he talk.

Sex is also a natural part of animal relationships and sex with ignoramuses falls into that category.

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former".

- Albert Einstein

And that's the only right answer! Amen!

Maybe you should just replace your photo's with graphics?

I'm not thinking something as provocative as "I go hard" mind you!

The problem is that it's very subjective.
Too subjective.

What exactly constitutes sexual harassment in a welcome manner?

As a man in today's salem-witch-trial society, if I saw such a clause in any contract I'd say good bye right then and there.
It speaks of issues, rightfully necessary or not, and simply isn't worth the risk.

I may be wrong here, but looking at the post title and signatures, I'd say this "newbie" has quite and eye.

If I am wrong... tell him your services are "For Sale" -Not You! :p

Man you so lucky send them to me

okay, seriously. As far as facebook, I personally will advice you to keep two profile : Public / Private

The private for friends and family while the public for work.

Unfortunately, facebook became important enough that people check your profile with or without a good reason.

So, for the public profile keep minimum access. People are not allow to post you your wall , ... etc

While the private can have other type of access so your friends and family don't get bothered contacting you.

Hi,

This does come up, without a doubt. Some ways that I've dealt with it are:

- At IM or other business events, avoid situations that could turn weird when possible, for instance going out late with the "guys" to hit the bar scene. Instead, hang out there earlier for awhile, and have someone like Willie Crawford at your table (Willie often brings his wife, too, and regardless, he's always a gentleman as most Warrior guys are at these thing

- Hanging out with women in your group and / or married gents also helps, and letting any single guys who attempt flirting know right off in a fun yet firm way that you are not picking up on it and running with it.

For example:

Remember Columbo, Peter Falk was Lieutenant Columbo, a homicide detective with the Los Angeles Police on a TV series? He knew who the killer was in the first few minutes, most often, yet "played stupid" asking questions, giving vague replies and letting the killer think he was ahead of the game, etc. Use Columbo tactics. This can make it more of an adventure.



- As a volunteer at a local adult male prison (teaching writing workshops there and helping in the Chaplain's area), when I run into this I use a number of tactics, depending upon the personality type. For those who appear like Don Juan's, I just smile and say, OK, let's NOT go there... or I might say, If I did what you're asking, my beauty might overwhelm you and the whole system here, and we'd both be locked up for years. While that MAY be worth it, I'd miss my soaps on TV, so hafta turn you down.


In short, flirting can be serious, but usually guys do this lightly and don't mind a brush off in jest, that doesn't hurt their egos. For those who need something more serious, be safe and avoid unsafe situations, seeking help as needed like from support at Facebook or from an event host, etc.

Aaghh! Just noticed that, now that you posted -- wow - - got me

And I took time to really write out help, bummer :rolleyes:

Russ,

You may be right, you may not. In either case, it's a problem for a lot of people. The advice may be helpful for those who are confronted with it and aren't comfortable bringing it up in a discussion forum with strangers.


Paul

Eh... you posted whilst I was composing my little book ^^^

Haz I been had? Sure looks like a possibility.

I Go Hard is a hip-hop euphemism.

My website material is a niche. Maybe if you could think more intelligently you could suffice it.

Try harder. :rolleyes:

When I had my brick and mortar business (dog grooming... not selling bricks and mortar) I used to get calls all day long from folks wanting to sell me stuff. Everything from advertising to cleaning supplies to credit card machines. I found it very easy to blow off the guys and even just hang up on them. A woman calling or stopping by would at least get a listen. I was never inappropriate or even flirtatious with any of these women but from my point of view, it is easier for a woman to sell offline. I say, use this to your advantage.

In the same breath though, I will say that anyone that steps over the line and makes you feel uncomfortable does need a reality check. Some of the female sales people that I do business with these days interject in some way that they have a boyfriend or husband when things start to get personal. By "personal" I mean when talk of business moves to "how was your weekend" or "are you going away over the holiday".

Doing business is all about creating relationships and I have many friends these days that started out as business relationships. Just because a couple of jerks spin into five dimensions of freak, don't change who you are, how you dress or wish that you were fat and ugly. Don't give them the power.

There will always be freaks out there. If you are attractive you will meet them pumping gas, when buying groceries, at your place of work, living in your neighborhood... In your own business you can fire the freaks just as you would any other difficult customer. Issue resolved.

What color is the sky in your Universe?


Paul

It's geek pink? Cool!

Facebook has options that fit with dating, and some people use it for that purpose, but it's hardly the only - or even primary - way most people use it. At least not in the US or Canada. I couldn't say how it's perceived, marketed or used in other countries.


Paul

I understand you, but , really do you think that everybody who is looking an affair is saying it like that?

Things happen, I do not doubt you are telling me what is your experience, but on the other hand I know a lot of people who has catched his/her wife/husband flirting on facebook.
This is something very common, and really no your friends nor mine are going to put in their wall "I am lookingfor an affaire".

Just be supossed I find somebody married that uses Facebook and says that he never look for an affair, and I will tell him:

But if you have your wife/husband and you are happy with her/him.
What a hell are you doing behind a computer screen, at your comfortable house, watching the nice/sexies profiles/pictures from sexies, pretties, hot, or cute women that are NOT your wife?
Why are you chating with her when your wife is no watching you?
Why do you get her telephone number?

Ok, your friends do not do that, neither even you, ok neither mine.
But, wow! surprise that the thing that most of the people are doing.
And not only the young people, all the people, everyday I hear some news related to somebody I know, about heving problems whit this situation, or his daughter, or his friend.

Im not judging anybody, and definitely Facebook is an open door. But it is no possible that a woman has to be under sexual harrasment only for being in Facebook. And she has to take legal action against any man who tries to do it. But definitely is something that every young woman who uses a real profile and offers a service, has to be prepared to face.

Just saying what I have seen as a "standart" user of FB, having a lot of friends in it.
But as my goal is succed in MMI, I see FB like the great opportunity to explode the social potential it has.

Blueriver

I guess there is a broad line between what is sexual harassment and possibly "flirting for fun and profit."

I think I definitely fall into the flirting for fun and profit arena.

How hard would it have been to just tell him you are already involved right out of the gate and then see if you can still conduct some business?

I have no idea how descriptive or inappropriate the message was that you got, and my ideas of inappropriate may be much different than yours. But if there had been some flirting going on initially and someone happened to try to take it a step further then I'd ease them back and let them know I was flattered but not interested in that particular type of relationship. And then carry on as usual and see if they wanted to have some work done.

If I was somehow really offended or concerned by something said, I would not ignore it like it never happened. That would need to be addressed immediately or could fester into something bigger down the road.

A whole new perspective on "I have 1000 friends on Facebook".

Lauryn,

You've gotten a lot of good feedback in this thread. While I don't know you, I do have to agree with those who have suggested the possibility that you may give mixed messages without even realizing it.

I do think one of the first mistakes you made was accepting his friend request. I realize everyone has different opinions on this, but that, IMO, could easily have given him the impression that you were open to the potential of something more than a business relationship. I do realize that many people use FB as a marketing tool and would probably say it's fine to "friend" business associates and clients. Regardless, it may have given THIS guy the wrong impression, without you even realizing it. So, perhaps a lesson to learn for future clients.

The other mistake I think you made (not blaming you for the situation - so please don't take it that way) was ignoring the FB message but continuing to email him. While ignoring a blatant come on will stop some people in their tracks, either because they then feel embarrassed or accept the lack of response as a "no", a more direct approach works best in many cases. That being said, I wasn't clear from your posts if his inappropriate behavior was a one time thing. So, perhaps he did get the message. (Sorry if I missed this somewhere in the thread.)

Regardless, I think it would have been best to have firmly clarified your boundaries as soon as he sent the message, rather than ignoring it; OR, terminate the business relationship if it was as "highly inappropriate" as you say it was - I mean, why would you really want to keep that client if he was that inappropriate? I realize you had already invested a lot of time in this client, but just something to think about.

As for the whole sexual harrassment issue. That is a very serious term and should never be used lightly (and I'm not saying that you are - I don't know). While I have no idea of the content of the FB message from this person, I would think it odd for you to continue corresponding with him "as if nothing happened" if you truly felt his actions qualified as "sexual harrassment". Again, I don't know you or your character, but I would strongly encourage you to ask yourself why on earth you would continue with this business relationship if you thought his behavior fit into that category.

That's just wrong.

And you got it all wrong.

How I heard it was, "Never trust something that bleeds for 7 days and doesn't die." :p

Asking is the definition of being socially inept. In the case where there is sexual tension between two people (generally speaking, not specifically referring to this instance), if the guy has to ask verbally, then he has already failed. This communication takes place on the non-verbal level. Don't mistake this for a lack of communication ... because just the opposite is going on.

If a guy verbally 'asks', all he is going to get is the 'I see you just as a friend' conversation. He fails her test as soon as he opens his mouth (in the case where she is interested but he has not made his move yet, she may initiate but that is rarer... now that brings back some memories with married women ... but I digress...)

In this instance, I guaranteed she flirted. All attractive business women do it and they use it as a powerful tool in their sales arsenal. The problem here is the OP continued that 'business flirtation' which is perfectly acceptable into a personal interaction, which is not.

This is not a 'my client propositioned me' thread. This is my 'friend on facebook who I met through work' propositioned me thread.

She stepped over the professional line. Call a spade a spade and deal with the actual consequences of those actions.

So Lauryn liked his FB page and he assumed that obviously mean't she wanted to have sex with him and your advice is that Lauryn should take responsibility for being in the wrong?

Do you by any chance have to take special tablets to keep your mind on the straight and narrow?

Thomas - You know you want me to lick your head. That's why you keep PMing me offers of your reduced rates. Honestly :rolleyes:

lol @ half of this thread. Have to admit there is plenty of entertainment on this forum. Some of you ppl's are out of your minds.

Unfortunately we all (men and women) have to deal with gender specific obstacles at some point or another. This scenario, thankfully, doesn't sound nearly as serious as some of the stories that are out there. If you are going to be a consultant, first thing you need is a real thick layer of protection over your feelings. Don't get hung up on how much time you put into a deal that falls through and don't put yourself out there in a way you aren't prepared to deal with. Be careful, be prepared and most of all be aware of yourself.

Lots of service provider/client relationships are fragile and the key to being a savvy consultant IMO is to roll with the punches and know how to smooth out the wrinkles. Perhaps a friendly "Thank you I'm flattered but not interested" would suffice?

Too many women use low cut shirts and hiked up skirts to get attention and sadly it makes them money. Sure, use your real picture on Facebook but be sure to dress professionally. Cleavage is totally unnecessary right? What is the purpose of a collar which dips low enough to show cleavage? An advertisement? Ventilation? Seriously...is it just a style? How many years ago was it that if a woman's ankle was showing it was considered socially unacceptable? Her ANKLE!!!

My only point about cleavage is just that there are too many women who are completely unaware of the way they are perceived and why. Yes a man needs to also be aware of what is appropriate, believe me you don't even want me to get started on how many ignorant fools out there are driven by their genitals. I just saw little in this thread about the subtle ways women provoke unwanted attention and only want it to be to their own gain without repercussion. The world simply doesn't work that way. Flirting happens, stalking happens and in probably 95% of the cases it is because men tend to be imbeciles about being horny idiots. It is also valid though to, as a businesswoman, consider your image and it's perception.

It's just like how the great Dave Chapelle said in a stand up comedy routine. He went to a club and saw a woman who, to say the least, was showing a whole lot of skin. He admits he got overly excited by what he saw and made a comment to which she replied "Just because I am dressed this way, does not make me a whore!" ...lol bear with me here...

Then he goes on to explain, would if he (Dave Chapelle the comedian) went walking around the streets wearing a cop uniform. Someone might run up on him. "Officer, thank god. Please, help us!" To which he replies "Ohhh, just because Im dressed this way does NOT make me a police officer!"

So yes, just because a woman dresses a certain way does not mean they are a certain way but if your going to wear the uniform....

To the OP, I have no idea what pics you have on Facebook or anything at all about you other then the silly avatar picture you have here. You already show obvious negligence for how you or what you associate with yourself might get perceived so I doubt what I have had to say will be heard as positive. Hopefully someone else might get it though, nice thread I enjoyed reading this one.

Megan Fox, is that you?

Oh yeah, I am always having to deal with this type of behavior. Just look at my perfectly sculpted cranium, blue eyes, and pretty face.

I even have some people (cough, Richard Van) wanting to lick my head!

I don't blame them but, like you, I want to remain professional in all my interactions on this forum.

Basically, you will have certain customers that want to control the majority of your time. Regardless if they want coaching, support, or a date, you will have to decide whether your time is better serving others and cutting ties.

You are in control. It is your business and you decide what behavior is tolerated.

As for me, I started charging people wanting to lick my head. Sure, it can be seen as partial prostitution but it makes for a great upsell.