Is website flipping a breach of licence?

16 replies
I've been wondering if I was to sell a website business which I'd managed to earn a steady income from, would I be breaching the websites template licence terms if I built the site from a HTML or wordpress template that I bought on Themeforest?

The standard Envato/Themeforest licence says that you are not allowed to sell the template on to other people and I'm pretty sure this is the case even if you make your own edits to the template because it would still contain the original authors code. Obviously, a lot of people probably still do this regardless of the licence terms... in fact, on flipper I've actually seen a themeforest wordpress theme with a automated SMS marketing plugin installed on it that was also being sold by an author on Envato. All the seller done was buy the template and plugin, install the plugin, add a bit of text to the website and then sell it as a ready made business with huge potential. I didn't like seeing that at all because it was technically ripping people off as he was charging so much more for it when it probably only took half an hour to build and he was clearly trying to capitalise on the quality of the plugin which was being sold on Envato.

So, does anyone here know the score in regards to site flipping and template licences?
#breach #flipping #licence #website
  • Profile picture of the author dave_hermansen
    I would guess that the domain/website/template are all transferable to a new owner. They just don't want you to re-sell their templates. I would just submit a contact request or ticket with them and ask?

    Worst case scenario you could get a CSS expert for $15/hr to create a very similar version using php/css.
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by dave_hermansen View Post

      I would guess that the domain/website/template are all transferable to a new owner. They just don't want you to re-sell their templates. I would just submit a contact request or ticket with them and ask?

      Worst case scenario you could get a CSS expert for $15/hr to create a very similar version using php/css.
      First of all, you might NOT be able to! Copyrights do NOT protect method, ideas, application, etc.... They protect expression and LOOK AND FEEL! So if you give a person a piece of art, book, or anything else having expression or a particular look, and they end up with something substantially similar, you CAN be sued!

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    I purchase all of my themes will a developer's license so I can sell it as many times as I want to. That's the best way to go if you are going to flip sites.
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    • Profile picture of the author sitehero
      Originally Posted by Rocket Media View Post

      Who cares. They would never find out, there are tons of people stealing templates and not paying for them. At least you paid for yours.

      I think they're more concerned with people reselling the templates rather than selling the websites the template was put on

      Its not right stealing other peoples work and its certainly not right to sell other peoples work. Also, just because loads of people do it, that doesn't make it okay or even if the author would never find out, that also doesn't make it okay either.

      Yes I would guess they are more concerned about people selling their templates as their own because this is the most common problem they have. However, I would imagine that most developers wouldn't be very happy about some of the blatantly work-shy flippers out there who only add the bare minimum content to replace the Lorem ipsum on a template, add a $4 brand domain and then sell it for so much more. I've seen loads of these and if I was the developer I wouldn't be happy about it, especially if they was earning more than me for it.

      Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

      I purchase all of my themes will a developer's license so I can sell it as many times as I want to. That's the best way to go if you are going to flip sites.
      Yeah I agree, this is always the best and fairest way to go.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ti
    The only one who can answer your question is the IP holder and agreement within of whatever IP you have your question pertaining to.
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  • Profile picture of the author SiteSmarty
    Check to see if the WordPress theme has the GPL (license). If it does you can do what ever you want with the theme.
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  • Profile picture of the author londoncoffee
    If you are selling a domain and website, the license is between you and envato.
    If you sell, the new owner will need to buy the license. So, effectively, you are building him a new site design at his request - but just leave the site as it is. Yes, its a waste but you have avoided any legal issues.
    (f) You may use the Work in a work which you are creating for your own purposes or for your client who has asked you to create it.
    So, the buyer now has a license and everyone is happy.
    The downside is - they'll slap you because they'll suss out your amazing site cost you $15 and you just added content and google indexed it...mmmm. And you asked for $500 - "How much!"
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  • Profile picture of the author Tim Franklin
    I used to work with theme forest, and decided to stop working with them due to their policy of restriction, (in fact we had to push them to stop using corporate labeling) in their domain name, I wish they would develop a better license model, because they are not really the distribution but a middleman, and most of the providers dont care what you do with it as long as they get paid.

    But again, to be legal, follow the TOS of the seller, (even if you dont agree with it) and in the future use a developers license that has terms that are friendly to you as the buyer not only friendly to the seller.
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
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    Originally Posted by Rocket Media View Post

    Who cares. They would never find out, there are tons of people stealing templates and not paying for them. At least you paid for yours.

    I think they're more concerned with people reselling the templates rather than selling the websites the template was put on
    There's always at least one in the crowd that could care less about the work and intellectual property of other people. Congratulations to you for the insight into the way you do business. Will keep that in mind.
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

      There's always at least one in the crowd that could care less about the work and intellectual property of other people. Congratulations to you for the insight into the way you do business. Will keep that in mind.
      You have THAT right! Steal four tires, put them on your car, and sell the car, and you are STILL selling stolen property!

      Usually, there are a few license types:

      1. The MOST common, is a personal use object that MIGHT be transferable. Want to sell 50? Buy 50 licenses!
      2. A limited use license, allowing you to use some aspect of the product elsewhere. One popular product for this would be VB. You can distribute the RUN TIME, but not the development software.
      3. A limited rights license, where you might be able to sell some rights of the products. So selling the product to another doesn't mean THEY can sell it.
      4. A full license is less likely. and allows you to do something like treat it as your own, and do what you wish.

      MOST commercial licenses, on templates, I have seen have been a kind of 1/4 hybrid. as far as I am concerned, it could be considered illegal. What they do is have TWO prices! ONE is sold to MANY people as a personal license. HOWEVER, you can pay a FAR higher price, like 100 times as much, and get an "exclusive" license. YEP, THAT is what I think STINKS! How can it be exclusive, if they sold it to 70 other people? Since they bought it LEGALLY, you have NO right to protection.

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author Jay Moreno
    @OP

    if you want to stay on the legal can you not just re-buy a second license for the template? i don't see what harm it would do if you did that? its not like you are selling multiple version of the site.

    I would probably just contact themeforest for clarification - they have always been very helpful when i have talked to them...

    the site you where talking about was txtcha - I saw that too... however i think the actual internal workings of the site was more custom developed...
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  • Profile picture of the author rosetrees
    You could ask the template seller. I developed a site for someone else using a paid for theme and I asked the developer if it was ok to sell a site (I have the full licence).

    Their reply was that it was ok to sell the site but that the purchaser wouldn't be a customer for their themes and therefore wouldn't be entitled to support from them.


    It never hurts to ask - that way you know for certain.
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  • Profile picture of the author Selmicro
    Generally speaking, if you bought one license, you can sell that license along with the developed website. But you could not sell more than one copy of that website.

    If you buy a developer license for any theme or plugin, you are generally allowed to build and sell any number of websites and possibly even offer PLR, resell and master resell rights as well, if you want. But you generally cannot simply resell the theme or plugin alone.

    We generally do not buy any themes or plugins unless we can buy a developers license for it. occasionally we do build out a 1 off, for a client, but rarely. This allows us to build sites specifically for flipping as well as to offer directly to IM's for them to flip.
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  • Profile picture of the author londoncoffee
    You BUY a license, get traffic and flip the site. It's still a template that was paid for. It wasn't downloaded from a fileshare site. Obviously there's a wide opinion about selling a $15 theme for $500. But people do that every day on the stock market, and they're making millions at the expense of third world economies sinking into the red. People pay what they feel comfortable paying. I got ripped off here buying a ****e ebook for £10 -about a 1000 words of pure crap. Now that's what i call dishonest.
    Viva La Flippeurs!
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  • Profile picture of the author tahoecale
    yeah i say your good to go long as theres no copyright or you have the right to sell it
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  • Profile picture of the author londoncoffee
    By flipping a website, you are simply transfering ownership, not replicating a site.
    So i can't see it being a violation of their licensing rights. You create a unique domain, customise a themeforest template/theme and add unique content. You get google ranked, visitors and sell. Thats all your hard work! So you flip it for £1000. Lucky you. You are flipping the domain including all files. That seems perfectly legit to me.
    themeforest license is there to stop you buying one copy of a file under its regular license and selling to a client at a profit. That would be a violation. You are effectively becoming an illegal reseller. But, if you buy a license on behalf of a client and set up a website and add a logo, custom header etc for £1000, you are not reselling the site design. You are selling your professional expertise as a designer and web master. Go out, buy 20 litres of paint and paint your neighbours house for £2000. The paint cost £40. You're charging £1960 for the labour / skill / use of your brushes, ladders, van etc. Its called profit and everyone's doing it. Envato grabs 50% from every template sale.
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