Unable to Transfer Domain: Problems with Registrar

[Joshua Uebergang]

This is regarding a post in the old forum. I haven't progressed any further in solving the issue.

http://www.warriorforum.com/forum/to...OPIC_ID=264058

EDIT: You can save time by skipping to #13 post:
Unable to Transfer Domain: Problems with Registrar

EDIT AGAIN: Solved!

[Tirmizi]

the link is not working for some reason .. could you state full issue here .. so i guess we could see what suggestion we could give ....

[Joshua Uebergang]

Hmm, it works for me but I'll post what it has said:

I was told that I need to retrieve my domain name password from my host (VizaWeb) in order to retrieve the domain name's secret key – which controls the transfer of domain names.

The secret key is given when you buy the domain name, but I no longer have it. I try to contact my registrar to retrieve it, but they do not answer emails, support tickets, phone calls, etc. I guess this is why they're not BBB compliant.

My understanding of everything is if I don't have the secret key and vizaweb is unwilling to give it out, I get really screwed by my registrar because there's nothing I can do about it? Surely the registrar, a domain reseller, cannot have this much power?

I can login to my current registrar. I get the transfer email. I've unlocked the domain to allow a transfer. But I think it's the dang password thingo that is apparently incorrect.

Does anyone know how I can obtain my domain names' secret key or have any other solutions?

This has been a horrid problem for me lasting over a month. I know there will be a few warriors who have experience in this.

=====
Monetize

File a complaint with ICANN.


=====
Joshua Uebergang

Thanks Monetize. Doing that now.

=====
Jeffery

I am a host and have seen this happen. It may be in your best interest to change the Domain Name Server (DNS) to a new host and deal with the transfer of the domain name to a new domain name registrar later. Note that DNS change and Domain Name Registration are two different transactions.

Noticed that VizaWeb offers free domain names with hosting packages. Read the Terms of Service (TOS) and see if they hold the domain name for a period of time before you are allowed to transfer the domain name.

Perform a whois search and see if the domain name is registered in your name at:
Whois lookup and Domain name search
If the domain name is in your name then you are probably just caught up in a mis-managed account. If the name is in the hosting companies name then you may be bound to the Terms of Service.

Let us know what the specifics are and we might be able to help you legally or technically.

Jeffery 100% :-)

=====
Joshua Uebergang

Hey Jeffery. Thanks for your suggestions.

I have moved to a dedicated server and so I've pointed the DNS to them. I did that about a month ago and that's fine. (As a side note, vizaweb illegally billed me another year for their hosting even though I cancelled it, but that's another issue I'm currently try to solve).

The domains are between 3 years old and 6 months old.

The whois information is a bit messed-up. The info varies between domain names. For some vizaweb are listed as admin, technical, and billing info. I try to change this info in the software they use (modern-bill) to manage the domain contact info, but it doesn't update.

Locating their tos is difficult enough. I'll see what I can find there.
Submit your communication, personal development, and relationship articles today to drive visitors to your site: MyCommunicationArticles.com
Go to Top of Page

=====
jensrsa

Joshua,

Here a thread on another forum dealing with the issue:

http://www.webmasterworld.com/domai.../3090172.htm

Seems like this quy changed his domain's whois admin information and got it sorted out.

Does your hosting control panel have the facility to update your whois info? Or submit a change request to the registrar.

Visit ICANN | Uniform Domain-Name Dispute-Resolution Policy for ICANN dispute resolution policies

Jens

=====
Joshua Uebergang

quote :
Does your hosting control panel have the facility to update your whois info? Or submit a change request to the registrar.

Yes, it does and I've tried but it doesn't update. I've tried contacting my registrar several times - and get ignored - so I've given up there and am contacting any one who might help solve the problem. (such as filing a ICANN complaint).

I'll read that forum link.

=====
Joshua Uebergang

I haven't heard back from ICANN yet and I haven't progressed any further at solving this problem.

[Joshua Uebergang]

I take it ICANN have just ignored my request. I'll submit to them again.

It's scary how little control you can have over something, a domain name, that is so important.

I know there a few warriors here that, run hosting themselves, and have more technical expertise than me. I'm still in need of a solution.

[Joshua Uebergang]

I'm not the that has had problems like this with Vizaweb:
Digg - Is VizaWeb Down For the Count?

I'm trying to contact anyone that has experienced this and seeing what they say.

It seems some companies have not implemented the authcode required to transfer .com domains. And the only way to obtain this, according to planetdomains is:

"Ask your current registrar to log into their Verisign administration and enter a value into the 'authinfo' field (this is done via the update domain menu). They should then be able to provide you with the authcode value and you can authorise your transfer."

Any contact with my host is futile so it seems transfering is IMPOSSIBLE.

[sreenivas]

It look like your host is more like sub seller or sub-sub seller. Just Do some googling and call the actual host. Try your luck

Good Luck
Sreenivasa

[Joshua Uebergang]

Vizaweb is a reseller for Enom. I'll try to contact Enom again. According to them, what Vizaweb doing is against their policy and ICANN:

https://www.enom.com/help/transfers/rejection.asp
ICANN | Policy on Transfer of Registrations between Registrars

[Mike Hill]

Why even bother messing around with companies like this..?

Just go with NameCheap (it's cheaper than the $12 you're paying with Vizaweb and no problems either.

Mike Hill

[davezan]

Would've replied sooner, but I wanted to check on something first.

Joshua, eNom is generally hands off when it comes to domains registered with
their resellers. Their reseller agreements refer them to the reseller first for any
possible resolution.

There are 3 catches with this situation:

1. If you're not the listed registrant and it shows Vizaweb, they're considered
the "legal owner" of those domain registrations. If you've pretty much used up
all means of communicating with them and they haven't responded, using the
"legal" route (sending a letter with legalese and all) might be your next step,
though it's not assured of any positive results either.

2. You stated in your previous thread something to the effect they "illegally"
(or something like that) renewed your billing. If you maybe did a chargeback,
but didn't transfer your domains out before that, then they've likely shut you
out and won't respond.

FYI, chargebacks are considered fraud regardless of the circumstances behind
them. But that's if that's what happened in this instance.

3. Opposite of #1 if you're the listed registrant, see if Vizaweb is indeed the
"main" reseller or just a "sub-reseller". The way eNom's reseller system works,
one is the main or "parent" reseller and can assign "sub resellers" to others.

I'm not sure of Vizaweb's arrangement. But if they are indeed a sub-reseller of
sorts, you can probably ask eNom if they're such or who their parent one is.

Unfortunately if Vizaweb is the main reseller of those domain registrations, you
will have to deal with them. If I find anything else, I'll surely post here.

[Joshua Uebergang]

Why even bother messing around with companies like this..?

Because I'm already caught up with them. I'm trying to get away from them.

Davezan, thanks for that info. Yes, I've noticed eNom try to pretend they offer help, but then all of a sudden they tell you to take it up with the reseller.

1. They are listed as admin for a few domains and their software pretends to allow me to change this, except it reverts back to them remaining as registrant. It seems I may have to use legal action against them.

2. The domains are paid for. The billing issue was for hosting, another issue I'm taking caring of.

3. When I search my domains on eNom, it says Vizaweb is the Domain Name Reseller. There's no mention of sub-reseller.

[Chipt]

Gosh Josh -

This whole thing really s*cks for you...

Personally, I had total 100% misery with GoDoody, and after I paid the ransom they extorted out of me and they unlocked my domains, I moved 100% of my domains away from GD immediately.

"There oughtta be a law..."

Any way, I now use Omnis at www.Omnis.com and have been very happy with them for the last year or two [however long it's been.]

That's not an aff link, BTW.

Best wishes to you in this difficult learning experience.

Chip Tarver

PS - Be sure you have full copies of your sites in case you need to start over with a similar domain name from a registrar and host who know what they're doing and can actually be trusted to be honest and fair to you...

[edynas]

Lost some good domainnames because of this kind of issues.
I guess it's a matter of how much energy are you willing to put into this as it seems you are getting nowhere with the host now.

If i understand correctly the domainname is registered with them being the owner as you say

1. They are listed as admin for a few domains and their software pretends to allow me to change this, except it reverts back to them remaining as registrant. It seems I may have to use legal action against them.

If they are listed as the registrant I would reread the tos of them. As you don't own the domain. Registrant does not mean the company that registered the domain but it means the person/company the name is registered to.

So things to consider....is it realy worth the trouble?
Is the domain fully developed, has it income, visitors, can you use a 301 to direct it to a new domain for now and build that up or is the domain expering soon...all these things I should consider before even make a standstill and dive into a legal quicksand.

[Joshua Uebergang]

I have some good news, kinda. I should have checked this earlier. Of all my domains, Vizaweb is listed as the admin and technical contact, which I can't change, for only one domain. This is the domain I think was free with their hosting. Like Jeffery suggested earlier, this means I could be bound to certain tos, but looking at the tos, there is nothing suggesting this.

Like you said edynas, I will redirect the traffic from this domain, which receives about 45k visitors a month, to another site that will replace it.

Having said all that, the registrant info for the domains is fine now. While I'd like to have control over that domain, which is my most important one, by being full a registrant, I can live with it.

The only thing now is trying to suck out the authcode from their support so I can transfer. How can this be obtained for the domains?

[davezan]

Originally Posted by Joshua Uebergang

The only thing now is trying to suck out the authcode from their support so I can transfer. How can this be obtained for the domains?

Unfortunately you have to obtain that from the one you've directly registered
the domain name with. Be it email, contact form, whatever works for them.

[Joshua Uebergang]

davezan, that's what I don't get. The management of domain names has been done so poorly that any registrar can ignore requests for authcode, and hence keep the domain name under their management to maintain the revenue of the domain registrant. Stupid!

Btw, I found that I can fax the necessary info through to my new registrar for the domain I am not admin for, to transfer.

[seasoned]

Originally Posted by davezan

Would've replied sooner, but I wanted to check on something first.

Joshua, eNom is generally hands off when it comes to domains registered with
their resellers. Their reseller agreements refer them to the reseller first for any
possible resolution.

There are 3 catches with this situation:

1. If you're not the listed registrant and it shows Vizaweb, they're considered
the "legal owner" of those domain registrations. If you've pretty much used up
all means of communicating with them and they haven't responded, using the
"legal" route (sending a letter with legalese and all) might be your next step,
though it's not assured of any positive results either.

That IS bad! MOST people here may tell you NEVER buy a domain name unless you are BUYING the domain name! That often means you shouldn't buy the domain name with hosting, as some hosts don't know what they are doing and/or frustrate the issue to basically hold the name for ransom. The name is the one thing that ties everything together. If your site does well, it can become VERY valuable to you.

Originally Posted by davezan

2. You stated in your previous thread something to the effect they "illegally"
(or something like that) renewed your billing. If you maybe did a chargeback,
but didn't transfer your domains out before that, then they've likely shut you
out and won't respond.

FYI, chargebacks are considered fraud regardless of the circumstances behind
them. But that's if that's what happened in this instance.

Chargebacks are *******NOT******* fraud unless you got what you asked for and were substantially promised! If they charged when you told them to cancel, or charged with no prior permission, *******THAT******* is fraud commited by THEM, and your only reasonable recourse is often the LEGALLY available OPTION to CHARGE BACK!

Steve

[davezan]

Originally Posted by seasoned

and were substantially promised!

Define substantially, Steve, especially if it was specifically agreed upon in the
first place. If you agreed with person A to make a workable website for him,
you did so, he paid you via credit card or whatever, his website didn't sell, he
complained to you about it, you said you only agreed to make a workable site
for him, then he did a chargeback or similar form of payment dispute, you ate
the costs of it, wouldn't you consider that fraud done against you?

In a similar manner, a registrar agrees to register the domain name for its end
user and pays its fees to the other parties like ICANN and the Registry. If the
domain's registrant or whoever does a chargeback on it and the registrar isn't
able to ward it off, it loses both the registration fees and chargeback fees.

Then again, I only stated that part you quoted from me if that's what the OP
did in his situation, which is moot since he said it's a different thing. At least,
I hope it is.

BTW, Joshua, since you said you're the listed registrant and if your email add
is listed on the WHOIS record, one other thing you can maybe do is create a
free reseller account at enomcentral.com and eventually "push" your domain
name or so there. Be aware that eNom will charge you their higher "retail" fees
come renewal time, but you might be able to finally get the auth code to move
to another registrar by then.

[Joshua Uebergang]

Ah seasoned! I miss your posts where you sit hunched over the keyboard, salivating as you type like crazy!

Interesting idea David. I guess it's possible.

[Joshua Uebergang]

Great news. I finally got the authcodes off my registrar!!! After plenty of tickets, and trying various "persuasive tactics", it seems playing the dumb-dumb tactic worked. Firstly, I basically enquired what the domain password was and got a response. They told me I should have got the password and if I didn't, provide the domains so they can email them to me. After a few retarted replies from them going off on tangents, and asking for details already in the ticket, viola, I got the authcodes.

[Sarah Harvey]

To be honest in some people's cases... if they are not careful, you can purchase a domain and oversee a very important part of the contract... many hosts do not allow you to transfer domains within the first 60 days of purchase lol.

[MakingMoneyAtHome]

Joshua,

Forgive me if I sound dumb, but I have never made a website myself so I am confused a bit but let me se if I have this right.

I just got a domain name from Yahoo. Are you saying that I have to go in and add my IP's information below Yahoo's or just take them out all together? I did go in and added my IP information, went back to bulletproofFTP, but I cannot get a connection to save my arse. What am I doing wrong? Thanks.

Dawn

Originally Posted by Joshua Uebergang

Hmm, it works for me but I'll post what it has said:

I was told that I need to retrieve my domain name password from my host (VizaWeb) in order to retrieve the domain name's secret key – which controls the transfer of domain names.

The secret key is given when you buy the domain name, but I no longer have it. I try to contact my registrar to retrieve it, but they do not answer emails, support tickets, phone calls, etc. I guess this is why they're not BBB compliant.

My understanding of everything is if I don't have the secret key and vizaweb is unwilling to give it out, I get really screwed by my registrar because there's nothing I can do about it? Surely the registrar, a domain reseller, cannot have this much power?

I can login to my current registrar. I get the transfer email. I've unlocked the domain to allow a transfer. But I think it's the dang password thingo that is apparently incorrect.

Does anyone know how I can obtain my domain names' secret key or have any other solutions?

This has been a horrid problem for me lasting over a month. I know there will be a few warriors who have experience in this.

=====
Monetize

File a complaint with ICANN.


=====
Joshua Uebergang

Thanks Monetize. Doing that now.

=====
Jeffery

I am a host and have seen this happen. It may be in your best interest to change the Domain Name Server (DNS) to a new host and deal with the transfer of the domain name to a new domain name registrar later. Note that DNS change and Domain Name Registration are two different transactions.

Noticed that VizaWeb offers free domain names with hosting packages. Read the Terms of Service (TOS) and see if they hold the domain name for a period of time before you are allowed to transfer the domain name.

Perform a whois search and see if the domain name is registered in your name at:
Whois lookup and Domain name search
If the domain name is in your name then you are probably just caught up in a mis-managed account. If the name is in the hosting companies name then you may be bound to the Terms of Service.

Let us know what the specifics are and we might be able to help you legally or technically.

Jeffery 100% :-)

=====
Joshua Uebergang

Hey Jeffery. Thanks for your suggestions.

I have moved to a dedicated server and so I've pointed the DNS to them. I did that about a month ago and that's fine. (As a side note, vizaweb illegally billed me another year for their hosting even though I cancelled it, but that's another issue I'm currently try to solve).

The domains are between 3 years old and 6 months old.

The whois information is a bit messed-up. The info varies between domain names. For some vizaweb are listed as admin, technical, and billing info. I try to change this info in the software they use (modern-bill) to manage the domain contact info, but it doesn't update.

Locating their tos is difficult enough. I'll see what I can find there.
Submit your communication, personal development, and relationship articles today to drive visitors to your site: MyCommunicationArticles.com
Go to Top of Page

=====
jensrsa

Joshua,

Here a thread on another forum dealing with the issue:

http://www.webmasterworld.com/domai.../3090172.htm

Seems like this quy changed his domain's whois admin information and got it sorted out.

Does your hosting control panel have the facility to update your whois info? Or submit a change request to the registrar.

Visit ICANN | Uniform Domain-Name Dispute-Resolution Policy for ICANN dispute resolution policies

Jens

=====
Joshua Uebergang

quote :
Does your hosting control panel have the facility to update your whois info? Or submit a change request to the registrar.

Yes, it does and I've tried but it doesn't update. I've tried contacting my registrar several times - and get ignored - so I've given up there and am contacting any one who might help solve the problem. (such as filing a ICANN complaint).

I'll read that forum link.

=====
Joshua Uebergang

I haven't heard back from ICANN yet and I haven't progressed any further at solving this problem.