Update to ClickBank Refund Policy and Vendor Fees

23 replies
Hey guys,
Not sure if you've seen this. New announcement by Clickbank today.

Interesting stuff.

Update to ClickBank Refund Policy and Vendor Fees | ClickBank Blog
#clickbank #fees #policy #refund #update #vendor
  • Profile picture of the author tpw
    Thank you for the update information.
    Signature
    Bill Platt, Oklahoma USA, PlattPublishing.com
    Publish Coloring Books for Profit (WSOTD 7-30-2015)
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4889349].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author John Romaine
    No worries Bill.
    Signature

    BS free SEO services, training and advice - SEO Point

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4889361].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Jon Patrick
      As with the FTC-driven changes, this is nothing but good news for vendors who are on the level.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4890028].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Rambo007
    So the refund scammers can make you lose even more money?

    I have had people buy with their own affiliate link and refund immediately. Now clickbank are saying i will have to pay a fine if i that bumps my rate above 15%??
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4890555].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author J Bold
      Originally Posted by Rambo007 View Post

      So the refund scammers can make you lose even more money?

      I have had people buy with their own affiliate link and refund immediately. Now clickbank are saying i will have to pay a fine if i that bumps my rate above 15%??
      That would seem to be a pretty crappy strategy for that affiliate, as I would think the refund would go through on their affiliate account immediately, as well, and they wouldn't be paid any commissions for that.

      So that's probably a moot point.

      But as John Taylor said, that's going to be the random idiot. If it pushes you over the edge, you are probably getting too many refunds, as it is.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4890613].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Robert Michael
      [DELETED]
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4902570].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
        Originally Posted by Chris Lockwood View Post

        Oh, please. Don't you think the employee who pushes the button to issue the refund would be there anyway, getting their salary?

        If a sale is refunded, they didn't earn anything. You might as well say that affiliates should get commissions on refunded sales.

        One could argue that the vendors have to do work for no return when refund requests come in, and most of us are not getting a salary. Maybe we should be compensated for our time.
        Seriously? :confused:

        If a transaction is completed, there is a cost. Reversing that transaction also carries a cost. Even if "the employee who pushes the button" is just a line of code, the cost remains. The middleman has a right to recover those costs if they become excessive.

        Of course, they could just do what real-world resellers do - dump the product line and quit selling it altogether if it becomes unprofitable. Would you rather see them do that?

        Has nothing to do with paying affiliates or compensating vendors. You and I both know it.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4906808].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author entrepreneurjay
    Good news. Guess everyone will just have to make top notch products. They should of done this a long time ago keep the scammers at bay!

    This should separate the real marketers from the wannabe scam artists who are just out to take your money without providing a halfway decent product in return.

    If you want to keep your refunds down deliver a good product. It is as simple as that - no magic lol. Sean Donahue is an example of a guy that only makes great products. I guarantee his refund rate is no where near 15% deliver quality and you will be fine.

    Good for you Clickbank good rule!
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4890580].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author John Taylor
    I doubt that the odd idiot buying through their own
    link and then claiming a refund will have a substantial
    effect on your refund rate.

    However, it does seem to me that it will become
    increasingly important to monitor the performance of
    your affiliates and take a ruthless stance against those
    affiliates who send poor quality and untargeted traffic
    through their hoplinks.

    Hopefully, this new policy will discourage people from
    creating crap products that fail to meet the promises
    made in many sales pages these days.

    I'm all for anything that has the potential to clean up
    this industry... as long as Clickbank themselves accept
    that they are also part of the solution.

    John
    Signature
    John's Internet Marketing News, Views & Reviews: John Taylor Online
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4890593].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author John Romaine
      Originally Posted by John Taylor View Post

      I doubt that the odd idiot buying through their own
      link and then claiming a refund will have a substantial
      effect on your refund rate.

      However, it does seem to me that it will become
      increasingly important to monitor the performance of
      your affiliates and take a ruthless stance against those
      affiliates who send poor quality and untargeted traffic
      through their hoplinks.

      Hopefully, this new policy will discourage people from
      creating crap products that fail to meet the promises
      made in many sales pages these days.

      I'm all for anything that has the potential to clean up
      this industry... as long as Clickbank themselves accept
      that they are also part of the solution.

      John
      Well said, John
      Signature

      BS free SEO services, training and advice - SEO Point

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4891367].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
        Banned
        Can''t really add much to what John said above.

        Thanks for the update, Johnny - I hadn't seen this.

        ClickBank does actually seem gradually to be moving in the right direction with several of their recent so-long-overdue changes, when you look at the "overall policy" clearly underlying them.

        (I have to say, from my own 3-years' experience and my current 20+ products promoted as an affiliate, I'd be absolutely horrified by anything like a 15% refund-rate. Nobody can accuse them of "overdoing it", here!)
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4891416].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author John Romaine
    No worries. I think being in Australia and the time difference, I seem to get these notifications ahead of you guys.

    Not sure...*shrug
    Signature

    BS free SEO services, training and advice - SEO Point

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4891434].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author salaka
    hopefully this will get rid all the bad rubbish in clickbank
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4891462].message }}
  • I'm all for anything that improves ClickBank's image. I hope this change will increase the quality of ClickBank products and clean the crap. I love ClickBank!
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4891722].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Damielle
    ClickBank is feeling the squeeze from the FTC. This is another in a series of policy updates they've been doing over the last couple of months.

    Its all geared to reducing the hype filled low quality products they've allowed on their marketplace.

    I personally have no problem with these changes and have seen them coming for a while.

    Vendors who put out good products, that do what they promise shouldn't have any problems with these changes
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4895527].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Chris Lockwood
    A lot of refunds (especially on downloadable items) have nothing to do with the quality of the product.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4896547].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Rambo007
    Well I have just sold almost 100 copies of my product so far.

    I have had to do 4 genuine refunds...

    but in the first week of launch i had TEN people buy and then refund directly via clickbank within 24 hours. Obvious serial refunders.

    Currently my refund rate is 17% when it should only really be 5-6%.

    Is it fair that I might have to pay a fine because of serial refunders?
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4896934].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author J Bold
      Originally Posted by Rambo007 View Post

      Well I have just sold almost 100 copies of my product so far.

      I have had to do 4 genuine refunds...

      But in the first week of launch i had TEN people buy and then refund directly via clickbank within 24 hours. Obvious serial refunders.

      Currently my refund rate is 17% when it should only really be 5-6%.

      Is it fair that I might have to pay a fine because of serial refunders?
      Yeah that sucks, I feel for you.

      However, I read in another thread on this same topic that Clickbank is going to try to do a better job of getting rid of serial refunders. They've been known to do it in the past, as I found with some research, here:

      ClickBank.com Habitual Refunders Beware :LizTomey.com

      But I didn't see anything about it in their latest notice unless I'm missing something, so I'm not sure from where the idea of a new stiffening policy against serial refunders came.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4897127].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Chris Lockwood
      Originally Posted by Rambo007 View Post

      but in the first week of launch i had TEN people buy and then refund directly via clickbank within 24 hours. Obvious serial refunders.

      Currently my refund rate is 17% when it should only really be 5-6%.

      Is it fair that I might have to pay a fine because of serial refunders?
      Some more scenarios that have nothing to do with the quality of the product:

      1. People who buy multiple copies of the same product and refund them. (Why are they even allowed to buy more than one?)

      2. People who don't recognize Clickbank on their credit card bills and do chargebacks.

      3. People who do chargebacks instead of asking for refunds.

      4. People who claim they didn't know what they were buying ("I thought it was a printed book") no matter how clearly the product is described.

      5. People who need tech help, but instead of asking for it, ask for a refund.

      6. Affiliates who buy and refund rather than asking for review copies.

      And now with the new policy,
      7. Competitors or other haters who want to drive up your refund/chargeback rates.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4902531].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author RAMarketing
    A rate of 15% would piss me off far before any rule about it would. At least to me, this changes absolutely nothing.

    1. I only promote products I've bought/used
    2. I talked to the vendors first
    3. I drop a product WAY before it's refund rates hit 15% (and start looking at my own traffic sources as well)

    I think this is great to kill the monthly launchers of rehashed garbage, but outside of the weight loss or MMO niches I think this is a ripple in the ocean.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4897145].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
    It's funny how one word can change the meaning of a message. This is from the piece Johnny linked to:

    Starting October 17, 2011, vendor accounts with a refund rate over 15% and/or chargeback rate over 1% over the past 60 days may be subject to additional fees or penalties.
    I didn't see anything that said that this was going to kick in automatically, or that the first refund that put you over 15% would trigger a penalty.

    What I saw was a warning that having too many refunds or chargebacks is a red flag. Make it a habit, and they'll do what they believe they have to do.

    When CB issues a refund, they actually do double the work for no return. They process the original transaction, with the expectation of collecting their cut. When they issue a refund (and return the fees), they again have to do the work (without charge) and return the fee one could argue they earned the first time.

    If you make yourself an unprofitable customer for any business, that business will take steps to either make you profitable or cut you loose.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4899994].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author chemo38
      Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

      It's funny how one word can change the meaning of a message. This is from the piece Johnny linked to:



      I didn't see anything that said that this was going to kick in automatically, or that the first refund that put you over 15% would trigger a penalty.

      What I saw was a warning that having too many refunds or chargebacks is a red flag. Make it a habit, and they'll do what they believe they have to do.

      When CB issues a refund, they actually do double the work for no return. They process the original transaction, with the expectation of collecting their cut. When they issue a refund (and return the fees), they again have to do the work (without charge) and return the fee one could argue they earned the first time.

      If you make yourself an unprofitable customer for any business, that business will take steps to either make you profitable or cut you loose.

      Great observation, John,

      I agree with you. "May" does not mean "shall".


      chemo38
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4900545].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Chris Lockwood
      Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

      When CB issues a refund, they actually do double the work for no return. They process the original transaction, with the expectation of collecting their cut. When they issue a refund (and return the fees), they again have to do the work (without charge) and return the fee one could argue they earned the first time.
      Oh, please. Don't you think the employee who pushes the button to issue the refund would be there anyway, getting their salary?

      If a sale is refunded, they didn't earn anything. You might as well say that affiliates should get commissions on refunded sales.

      One could argue that the vendors have to do work for no return when refund requests come in, and most of us are not getting a salary. Maybe we should be compensated for our time.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4902485].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Rob Howard
        Originally Posted by Chris Lockwood View Post

        Oh, please. Don't you think the employee who pushes the button to issue the refund would be there anyway, getting their salary?

        If a sale is refunded, they didn't earn anything. You might as well say that affiliates should get commissions on refunded sales.

        One could argue that the vendors have to do work for no return when refund requests come in, and most of us are not getting a salary. Maybe we should be compensated for our time.
        Except, Chris, that all major credit card processors and paypal DO NOT refund part of the fees for the transactions.

        Every time someone refunds from me, some money comes out of my own pocket.

        So yes, clickbank PAYS every time someone refunds.

        Rob
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4902545].message }}

Trending Topics