ClickBank Refund Slap

13 years ago

They create an environment that encourages serial refunders then punish the results of their own doing. I got a $250 product price limit way back when they were hard to get, however I never used my account because CB always worried me.

George Wright

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Clint Faber

13 years ago

Originally Posted by George Wright

They create an environment that encourages serial refunders then punish the results of their own doing. I got a $250 product price limit way back when they were hard to get, however I never used my account because CB always worried me.

George Wright

Interesting, How do you You feel that Clickbank is create an environment that encourages serial founders? Are you referring to there auto refund approve proses?

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George Wright

13 years ago

First off I should add, I fully understand why CB has certain rules, CC slaps and all.

It's just that they have always (as long as I can remember) been so famous for easy refunds with notices to that affect with each sale etc. that crooks disposed to get free products have been encouraged to do so.

I too agree it's about time they find a way to punish or stop the serial refunders, it's just that they should have been doing this since day one when they started making it easy to refund.

I just chose not to play in their sandbox because as I said the whole CB setup worried me. It probably was a wrong decision on my part, maybe I left a lot of money on the table. Perhaps with this new rule I'll sell a few things throgh them.

I hope my first response did not sound like I was anti CB I have purchased a lot from them. I just haven't sold a lot through them yet.

/damage control

George Wright

Originally Posted by Clint Faber

Interesting, How do you You feel that Clickbank is create an environment that encourages serial founders? Are you referring to there auto refund approve proses?

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Clint Faber

13 years ago

Originally Posted by George Wright

First off I should add, I fully understand why CB has certain rules, CC slaps and all.

It's just that they have always (as long as I can remember) been so famous for easy refunds with notices to that affect with each sale etc. that crooks disposed to get free products have been encouraged to do so.

I too agree it's about time they find a way to punish or stop the serial refunders, it's just that they should have been doing this since day one when they started making it easy to refund.

I just chose not to play in their sandbox because as I said the whole CB setup worried me. It probably was a wrong decision on my part, maybe I left a lot of money on the table. Perhaps with this new rule I'll sell a few things throgh them.

I hope my first response did not sound like I was anti CB I have purchased a lot from them. I just haven't sold a lot through them yet.

/damage control

George Wright

Thanks for the clarification, we can all be misunderstood at times (Hint Alexa Brat lol

). Stopping the serial refunders is more on the venders but is now encouraged and supported by clickbank.

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Jon Patrick

13 years ago

Originally Posted by George Wright

I too agree it's about time they find a way to punish or stop the serial refunders, it's just that they should have been doing this since day one when they started making it easy to refund.

I've never really had to worry about my refund rate, as it's always stayed well below the danger zone. But then again, I'm not in the internet marketing niche. I could see it being a big issue there.

I definitely think they should establish standards for buyers, too. If a buyer racks up a certain number (or percentage) of refunds on the products they purchase, they should be blocked from making further purchases. When someone is just going around getting free product after free product, it becomes obvious at some point that this was their intention from the start.

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Clint Faber

13 years ago

Originally Posted by burningdrive

I've never really had to worry about my refund rate, as it's always stayed well below the danger zone. But then again, I'm not in the internet marketing niche. I could see it being a big issue there.

I definitely think they should establish standards for buyers, too. If a buyer racks up a certain number (or percentage) of refunds on the products they purchase, they should be blocked from making further purchases. When someone is just going around getting free product after free product, it becomes obvious at some point that this was their intention from the start.

Yes I agree with you and feel the same burningdrive

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George Wright

13 years ago

Originally Posted by burningdrive

I've never really had to worry about my refund rate, as it's always stayed well below the danger zone. But then again, I'm not in the internet marketing niche. I could see it being a big issue there.

I definitely think they should establish standards for buyers, too. If a buyer racks up a certain number (or percentage) of refunds on the products they purchase, they should be blocked from making further purchases. When someone is just going around getting free product after free product, it becomes obvious at some point that this was their intention from the start.

RE: The quote above in red. That's a great point. Buyers of Pain Relief Methods, Dog Training ebooks, Knitting patterns, etc. are probably much less likely to ask for a refund than buyers of MM products.

Thanks for the reminder.

George Wright

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Clint Faber

13 years ago

Originally Posted by drunkenmonkey

Do you honestly think CB is gonna enforce the >15% refund rates?

That would wipe out virtually ALL the BS MMO products, TV to PC crap and all the crappy "Clean your PC" and "Check This number" products on there.

Clickbank would lose more money most here (me included) could shake a stick at PER day than most vendors/aff's make in a month.

Yep, I can really see them enforcing that one...yawn.

I think You misunderstand. They are adding a FEE if your refund rate is over 15% I do thing that they will yes enforce that. I feel it is there goal to get rid and make better out of the "junk" that may be on Click Bank.

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Clint Faber

13 years ago

Originally Posted by drunkenmonkey

@ Clint Faber: Don't think for a second I'm a CB noob I know exactly how this stuff goes down.

They've been saying 15% for a frikkin eternity....it's nothing new even though you may think so.

In fact a Vendor buddy with one of the highest converting products on CB that is NOT MMO complete and utter BS is literally laughing all the way to the Bank right now on the back of this...you know who you are.

And long may it continue....

I only was saying that you may have misunderstood what CB is doing now that's all. I was saying nothing about you being a "noob" it is vary apparent that you are quite informed on this topic.

"laughing all the way to the Bank right now" Nice lol

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Thomas Michal 13 years ago

Some people need to read better it doesn't say you WILL be penalized it says you MAY there is a big difference there...

Quote frome the TOS:

Starting October 17, 2011, vendor accounts with a refund rate over 15% and/or chargeback rate over 1% over the past 60 days may be subject to additional fees or penalties

Obviously if someone sold 3 products and one person requested a refund CB wouldnt penalize them because their refund rate was 33%
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jamjar919

13 years ago

About time IMHO

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Clint Faber 13 years ago

Originally Posted by jamjar919

About time IMHO

Can you tell us a lill bit more about your opinion?
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Alexa Smith

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Clint Faber

In the new Clickbank regulations they are now penalizing venders with over 1% refund rate

This is incorrect. (And entirely implausible, too!)

This thread contains accurate information.

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Clint Faber

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Alexa Smith

This is incorrect. (And entirely implausible, too!)

After I clarify that it is 1% charge back and 15 refund. How do you feel that it is Incorrect and implausible?

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J Bold 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Clint Faber

How do you feel that it is Incorrect and implausible?

Because they are penalizing vendors with a refund rate of 15% or higher. Not 1%. Are you kidding? 1%? That's standard.
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Alexa Smith

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Clint Faber

How do you feel that it is Incorrect and implausible?

It's 15%, Clint, not 1% as you stated.

"More than 1%" would be ridiculous, clearly. Any vendor can have 1% refunds just by having a couple of unwise affiliates, or a bad day, or a following wind - that's outside the vendor's control, and it would be crazy to penalize him for it. Which is why they're not doing that.

Look at the link I posted above, Clint. There's a link in that thread to the official announcement on ClickBank's website, which will show you that you have this whole thing rather significantly wrong at the moment!

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Clint Faber

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Alexa Smith

It's 15%, Clint, not 1% as you stated.

"More than 1%" would be ridiculous, clearly. Any vendor can have 1% refunds just by having a couple of unwise affiliates, or a bad day, or a following wind - that's outside the vendor's control, and it would be crazy to penalize him for it. Which is why they're not doing that.

Look at the link I posted above, Clint. There's a link in that thread to the official announcement on ClickBank's website, which will show you that you have this whole thing rather significantly wrong at the moment!

Miss typed the 1 and meant 15 (dang you are a Pit Bull

lol) You may have seen that it was already corrected. I had a chat with the clickbank rep before this change announcement. Thanks for helping me out with that Girly girl.

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Black Hat Cat Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Clint Faber

After I clarify that it is 1% charge back and 15 refund. How do you feel that it is Incorrect and implausible?

She didn't say your correction was incorrect, she said your initial comment was incorrect. She even quoted in her response what she was referring to.
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- Clint Faber 13 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Black Hat Cat
  
  She didn't say your correction was incorrect, she said your initial comment was incorrect. She even quoted in her response what she was referring to.
  
  Yes I understood () let me help you understand my statement. I was asking if there was any thing more after the changes that she disagreed with.
  
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Frank Kerley

13 years ago

Personally I think it's a good thing...tired of the extremely high refund rates on my ClickBank Acct... Seems like the products are lacking something.

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Clint Faber 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Frank Kerley

Personally I think it's a good thing...tired of the extremely high refund rates on my ClickBank Acct... Seems like the products are lacking something.

Are your referring to refund rates on your Vender or Affiliate ClickBank account?
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thekaver

13 years ago

its can be a good thing!

but not everything is as black and white as that!

for example if a guy happens to buy 5 products on clickbank within a 1 month period that all turn out to be absolute rubbish so he asks for a refund! should that guy be penalised?

the same way for if a vendor is a vitim of serial refunds its not fair he sould be penilised!

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Clint Faber

13 years ago

Originally Posted by thekaver

its can be a good thing!

but not everything is as black and white as that!

for example if a guy happens to buy 5 products on clickbank within a 1 month period that all turn out to be absolute rubbish so he asks for a refund! should that guy be penalised?

the same way for if a vendor is a vitim of serial refunds its not fair he sould be penilised!

Do you feel that the vender should not hold the right to blacklist and not sell to you done the road?

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Stefan Vee 13 years ago

I hope it won't encourage vendors NOT to reply to refund
requests from customers who are unaware of Clickbank's
DIRECT back-door.

But sadly, I think it will encourage them. Customers who
kindly ask for a refund aren't the ones who are responsible
for charge-backs.

The serial refunders are the winners here, not the occasional
refunder as many vendors balancing around the 12, 13, 14 %
refund rate simply won't respond anymore.
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rts2271 13 years ago

Most of the big MMO vendors on CB have left CB. Clickbanks auto-refund policy created this mess, their lack of vetting their vendors made it worse, their marginalizing their affiliates by placing this burden on their backs decimated their backbone and their coming in and fixing the barn doors after the horses have bolted is about as strong of a business move as the band playing on the deck of the Titanic. CB may not die from this but there growth model was just set back 3 years and they will certainly not recover in the immediate future. To many affiliates are moving on to other more lucrative systems or launching their own through products such as idev and confusionsoft. The golden days of CB are over.
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Clint Faber

13 years ago

All in all I think it is a good thing for everyone.

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Daniel Roach 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Clint Faber

All in all I think it is a good thing for everyone.

I agree, particularly good for Clickbank's image. I don't know about anyone else here but I've always seen Clickbank as a reputable company that was good to their affiliates but ultimately facilitated the sales for a lot of crappy products.
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Isaiah Jackson

13 years ago

about time in my opinion nobody wants serial refunders.

second if a guy does buy 5 garbage products in one month its probably a good thing that has been stopped so he doesn't fall into the "cycle of doom"

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Jon Patrick

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Stefan Vee

I hope it won't encourage vendors NOT to reply to refund
requests from customers who are unaware of Clickbank's
DIRECT back-door.

That wouldn't be wise of those vendors. When I read over ClickBank's recently updated terms, they specified that vendors must provide an email by which buyers and ClickBank staff can receive a non-automated response within 24 hours. A bunch of emails from buyers telling ClickBank that they can't reach a vendor will surely be noticed.

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ClickBank Refund Slap

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