I will UNSUBSCRIBE from your mailing list immediately...

thadbong

13 years ago

Sorry...

What if I send you four useful tidbits of information for every offer I bombard you with.

Will that help?

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Kingshouse 13 years ago

Originally Posted by thadbong

Sorry...

What if I send you four useful tidbits of information for every offer I bombard you with.

Will that help?

Fair Point Methinks!
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PhiladelphiaSeo

13 years ago

I agree, if all I get are offers I unsubscribe. Most of the time if I'm on a list its because I use their copy and auto responders as swipe files for my own marketing. I look at how they make offers etc. One thing I like to do is make a soft pitch at the end of my emails. I'll give pure content in the body of the email. Lets say I talk about why you need to use two step lead generation. Then at the end I'll say something like, If you're sick and tired of not getting the leads you need to make the kind of money you deserve, check out X and get all the leads you can handle.

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RyanJohnson

13 years ago

Originally Posted by thadbong

Sorry...

What if I send you four useful tidbits of information for every offer I bombard you with.

Will that help?

yeah, I'm pretty sure you COMPLETELY missed the point... so good luck with your mailing list

Originally Posted by PhiladelphiaSeo

I agree, if all I get are offers I unsubscribe. Most of the time if I'm on a list its because I use their copy and auto responders as swipe files for my own marketing. I look at how they make offers etc. One thing I like to do is make a soft pitch at the end of my emails. I'll give pure content in the body of the email. Lets say I talk about why you need to use two step lead generation. Then at the end I'll say something like, If you're sick and tired of not getting the leads you need to make the kind of money you deserve, check out X and get all the leads you can handle.

oh yeah, I hear you. I do the same thing with some big time marketers and I believe I would be stupid not to. I mean, they are good for a reason so any little "pointers" I pick up are great.

That said, I DO indeed buy products from emails that come through. Maybe they are things I missed here on the WF, maybe something completely different. The thing that I can stand is when someone plugs 4 different products a day claiming they are the next best thing since sliced bread when the marketer hasn't used it themselves. It's a dead giveaway because they don't even describe the product right...

Maybe I am missing something but how can the "Software of 2011" come out 4 times a day for a week straight? :rolleyes:

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Raydal

13 years ago

I have client who email their list twice per day every day and
make their money (90%) from email marketing. It all depends
on what you are emailing.

Personally I only email when I have something to say but
I wouldn't hold myself as a model since I am on the slow
side for frequency.

But for sure don't just send offers after offers without
giving value.

-Ray Edwards

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RyanJohnson

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Raydal

I have client who email their list twice per day every day and
make their money (90%) from email marketing. It all depends
on what you are emailing.

Personally I only email when I have something to say but
I wouldn't hold myself as a model since I am on the slow
side for frequency.

But for sure don't just send offers after offers without
giving value.

-Ray Edwards

Daily emails, weekly emails, or monthly emails don't bother me. It's the meaningless, junky emails that I can't stand. Maybe I should have been clearer in my OP but I left it "broad" because email frequency isn't the kicker.... it's quality.

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tpw

13 years ago

If you are on Mike Lantz' list, why are you complaining?

He only sends product pitches, yet his list seems to be fairly large and responsive after all these years...

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Michael Mayo

13 years ago

Originally Posted by tpw

If you are on Mike Lantz' list, why are you complaining?

He only sends product pitches, yet his list seems to be fairly large and responsive after all these years...

His list is responsive because they got on his list to receive product pitches!

Target Marketing at it's finest.

Have a Great Day!
Michael

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barbling 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Michael Mayo

His list is responsive because they got on his list to receive product pitches!

Target Marketing at it's finest.

Have a Great Day!
Michael

I personally think that's one of the best ways to run a list - make sure you deliver exactly what the person expects.

And if they're wanting product pitches...it's a match made in heaven indeed!
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RyanJohnson

13 years ago

It must be my own fault for not being clear in my posts. I am not complaining about a good email marketer. I am complaining about spammers or people that email you with false claims and reviews just to get you to buy via their link.

I buy stuff from email marketers all the time. I have my own list that I promote to. What I DON'T do is pimp out crappy products to my list while telling them it is a great product. Not all the people on your list are going to be newbies and idiots. If you continually lie to them... guess what? They won't believe you.... hence a NON-BUYER.

I am not on Mike Lantz list, but if I was, and he made good pitches, that would be OK. Sounds like Mr Lantz is a good email marketer. Sounds like he built a targeted list and is giving his list exactly what they are after. That's great... that's the way it should be.

But what if Joe Blow starts emailing you like this:

6 a.m - "OMG this is the best product of 2011"
12 p.m - "Check out this WSO of the year... YOU HAVE to have it"
6 p.m - "I don't know how I survive without this, best of the year"

... and you can tell by THEIR rave review that they haven't even used or researched the product at all because every other reviews claims it is crap... How does that make you feel?

Now... get on Coby Wright, Kelvin Nikkel, Mike Cowles, E Brian Rose, or many others.... they don't bombard you with crap. Yes, they promote to you, That is OK. Some of the mentioned email once a day, some email 3 times a day, some once a week.... Frequency is non issue for me. It's quality.

I don't know how to make it any plainer than that. My message was..... email QUALITY... not CRAP. Treat subscribers like people... not like dollar signs. They will respond much better.

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JCorp

13 years ago

Here's a suggestions to what you should do with excessive IM emails:
put them in a separate folder, accumulate them, then compile all (if any) useful information and turn it into a product. now you're making money off there obnoxious and overbearing ways!

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BabyMama

13 years ago

I find that excessive emails are really annoying and I unsubscribe quickly however I don't mind a balance of offers as long as they don't come in a flood every day. I like to see what products people are creating or promoting.

Its good for my own research too!

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Paul200

13 years ago

I actually just sent Sears an email telling them to stop sending me emails every other day and that I would no longer buy any of thier products because of the emails they kept on sending me. If its one thing I hate above all is email after email about products I dont want. They lost themselves a buyer by doing it

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Damielle

13 years ago

I think balance is key, if you keep a ratio of at least one free quality helpful email for every sales pitch you send, I believe you can email as often as you want.

People on your list are there for solutions and its your responsibility to give it to them whether it be free or paid.

Its also important ,what you sell to your list. Do you genuinely believe it will help them or are you promoting it because it has a high earnings per click. I personally only promote products and services I have used myself or at least seen a review copy

We are all here to make money, but more important is to have a sustainable long term business and that comes when we put our customers/list first

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kaper7

13 years ago

It is greed and lack of respect when a marketer sends you several offers every single day! Unsubscribe and maybe they'll get the message.

A reasonable frequency is 100 % valuable content and 20% offer and maximum once a day. This works and it gains the respect, trust, and authority with my list. Through this process, I'm able to covert very well.

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kaper7

13 years ago

[DELETED]

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MoneyMagnetMagnate 13 years ago

Hey kaper7...you sent that post twice - are you trying to spam us? :rolleyes:

I completely understand what you mean by quantity vs quality...
You will open the email from a sender you will trust that has given you good info...

But when that 10 or fifteen emails are pitching the same crappy "I made 4,268,987.29 this week"...what did you do...and for only 47.00...No? - 37.00...NO? - then 27.00?...NO? OK,then here's another crappy email -

It gets old fast...
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ephame

13 years ago

I think a lot of e-mail marketers forget they are marketing to real people, I e-mail the way I would like to be e-mailed to. If some leave the list because of it then that's fine you can't keep them all. But certainly what you are saying is true, no need to push push push people products.

They had enough trust in you to give you their details, the best you can do is respect that and treat them how you would like to be treated if you gave your e-mail to someone.

Thanks
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KingOfContentMarketing 13 years ago

I was on one list where the guy was emailing 5 or 6 times a day! That's impressive. It takes some stamina. But the noise to signal ratio was too high and I had to bail.
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IamTJM

13 years ago

One major annoyance is when every email they send is basically a long sales letter about a product they are promoting. I find it best when they approach you like a human and someone who the reader can trust instead of just hyping up everything they are trying to sell.

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tpw

13 years ago

Interestingly, there are loads of people making big bucks with their mailing lists that are doing exactly what you folks are complaining about.

You are not your target market, nor are you their target market.

Unsubscribe from their lists, and they will learn their lesson!! They will learn that you were never part of their target audience, and they will learn that you have just made more room on their list for people who are in their target audience.

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JennySweets

13 years ago

Originally Posted by tpw

Unsubscribe from their lists, and they will learn their lesson!! They will learn that you were never part of their target audience, and they will learn that you have just made more room on their list for people who are in their target audience.

There's one marketer who I unsubbed from and forgot. Then I remembered a free monthly PLR membership and resubbed from the site, not remembering..

Well one of the first emails I read from the guy was promoting a WSO that had been closed down the night before for actions on Flippa that were against Warrior TOS. If that weren't bad enough, the item itself was junk. (I'd gotten a review copy.) I knew in minutes it was skeletal at best and after studying a days worth of sale thread responses, knew it violated Amazon TOS.

I would NEVER promote it to my list.. hell, before I even realized he'd launched the dang thing for sale, I was emailing him all sorts of things he needed to fix and flesh out before launch (silly me. beta tester at heart.)

So it was obvious that the guy had never used it, and hadn't bothered to check the sales thread for feedback or anything. Just saw it, got a link, and chucked it out there.

I stayed on the list a few days to see if he ever came out and apologized for sending scammy sucky crap. Not A Peep about it.

However I quickly remembered why I had unsubbed before - he mailed several times a day, most of the items were ad swaps, and the ones that DID come from him he had obviously not used, or even done the courtesy of researching the product first. His copy sucked. "This is great! You have to see it or you will LOSE MONEY! adclick.notonyourlife.com

After a few days I tried to unsub. I mean really.. tsk tsk! But I can't get off the dang list. I keep trying to unsub, it says I am unsubbed, but I keep getting tons of mail.

Blech.

Not aweber, I think it's getresponse but I'm not sure.

I hate that shyte, all the way around.

Thanks

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RyanJohnson

13 years ago

Originally Posted by tpw

Interestingly, there are loads of people making big bucks with their mailing lists that are doing exactly what you folks are complaining about.

You are not your target market, nor are you their target market.

Unsubscribe from their lists, and they will learn their lesson!! They will learn that you were never part of their target audience, and they will learn that you have just made more room on their list for people who are in their target audience.

kind of funny you say this. Really, I am not trying to argue with you about this, just stating my side (and that of a lot of people) and actually didn't mean for this to look like a "complaining" thread... but instead a "learning" thread for email marketers. My point is not quantity of emails. I have a list that I promote to. What I don't do is lie to them about products that I'm promoting. I don't try to tell them some product is "totally awesome" when it isn't. My point is some people send emails that are blatantly lies.

But let me ask you this: When I subscribe to someones list for a free "listbuilding" course... then they start sending me emails about the "Fast Blog Finder" then apparently I'm not their "targeted audience".... so how is that MY fault? Now, I expect it to happen as the "listbuilding" products are only so many to promote, but I'm trying to figure out how them sending me crappy emails about something unrelated to what I signed up for is my fault.

As I have said before, I am on a lot of email lists. Hell, I might even be on YOUR list or others in this thread. I like a lot of the emails I get. Many of them do nothing but promote products. THATS OK.

My only message was to send good emails and treat subs like real people and they will respond better. If you want to send out massive amounts of nothing but crappy emails, go ahead... just expect your turnover to be really high.

Thanks
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tpw

13 years ago

Originally Posted by RyanJohnson

kind of funny you say this. Really, I am not trying to argue with you about this, just stating my side (and that of a lot of people) and actually didn't mean for this to look like a "complaining" thread... but instead a "learning" thread for email marketers.

Originally Posted by RyanJohnson

It must be my own fault for not being clear in my posts. I am not complaining about a good email marketer. I am complaining about spammers or people that email you with false claims and reviews just to get you to buy via their link.

LOL

Not complaining, eh?

And I was simply stating my opinion also... If I felt like I needed to justify my position, I'd say something here like: and the opinions of a lot of other people.

Yes, I realize that a lot of people share your opinion. They are to be found throughout this thread complaining about that thing you are "teaching" to other email marketers.

Of course, the people you are trying to "teach" are churn-and-burn marketers, who frankly don't care what you or anyone else thinks about their email marketing tactics.

My point remains that whether you are complaining/ teaching/ or preaching, lots of people are making real money doing those things that you think are wrong.

I seriously doubt that you are complaining about my emails, but that is not relevant to our discussion here. Like Coby, there is a lot of content in my mailings...

Originally Posted by RyanJohnson

My point is not quantity of emails. I have a list that I promote to. What I don't do is lie to them about products that I'm promoting. I don't try to tell them some product is "totally awesome" when it isn't. My point is some people send emails that are blatantly lies.

But let me ask you this: When I subscribe to someones list for a free "listbuilding" course... then they start sending me emails about the "Fast Blog Finder" then apparently I'm not their "targeted audience".... so how is that MY fault? Now, I expect it to happen as the "listbuilding" products are only so many to promote, but I'm trying to figure out how them sending me crappy emails about something unrelated to what I signed up for is my fault.

As I have said before, I am on a lot of email lists. Hell, I might even be on YOUR list or others in this thread. I like a lot of the emails I get. Many of them do nothing but promote products. THATS OK.

My only message was to send good emails and treat subs like real people and they will respond better. If you want to send out massive amounts of nothing but crappy emails, go ahead... just expect your turnover to be really high.

Churn-and-burn marketers EXPECT their turnover to be HIGH... That is part of the churn-and-burn marketing strategy.

If people on my list subscribed to learn about "list building", then I don't think it is too much of a stretch to also believe those persons would also be interested in building squeeze pages, writing articles, building autoresponder sequences, writing good headlines, and writing good copy.

Why would I think that?

Because once someone has started to build their list, wouldn't they want to also want to be sure that their list signup conversion was high, and also that they could convert their list audience into buyers?

If someone also wanted to advertise their landing page, then yes, the blog finder might be in line with what they needed to know.

Some people argue that if we are pitching complementary products and services to our lists, then we are doing a disservice to our subscribers.

And others suggest that if we are not pitching complementary products and services to our lists, then we are doing a disservice to our subscribers.

You may not like the way those folks do it, but it doesn't mean they are wrong to do it.

I am not trying to justify those that lie to their subscribers, because there is no justification for that.

Yet, not everyone who says it is a great product is lying. They might believe it to be a great product because they read it or they took the word of someone else they trusted about the quality of the product.

Just because you did not like the product does not mean that the person who recommended it to you was lying. You both simply saw the same product through two different sets of eyes.

Originally Posted by Joshua Rigley

Bill,

I may be misunderstanding your post, or taking it out of context, but...

You are not your target market

Allen Says disagrees with you.

Joshua: I don't know what you are referencing as far as what Allen said, but if I am teaching you about article marketing, then I am not my target market, because I already know all of the material in my product.

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kencalhn 13 years ago

i shoot for 70% content, 30% pitches... sometimes I get it the other way around though during launches, lol.. seriously you've gotta give at least half content in emails, like free weekly video tips or whatever
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Joshua Rigley Banned 13 years ago

Bill,

I may be misunderstanding your post, or taking it out of context, but...

Originally Posted by tpw

You are not your target market, nor are you their target market.

Allen Says disagrees with you.
- Thanks
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Alan Petersen

13 years ago

Originally Posted by RyanJohnson

I am a marketer myself.

Then you should know that some folks follow the burn and churn model of basically hammering you until you buy or die (unsubscribe). Those guys are constantly just adding subscribers to make up for the ones that unsubscribe.

Their only objective is commissions. Period. They don't care about building a relationship with their list just blasting away at it.

And they don't care that you're ranting about unsubscribing. They could care less. You're nothing but a number.

So don't take it personally. You can smell the burn and churn email marketer a mile away. Usually you get on their list with a free gift that is rather crappy. Giveaway events, etc.

Personally, I think that model sucks. You're constantly hustling to get more subscribers in than opt-out. Those lists are rather unresponsive so their conversion to sales per email is pretty low thus they have to email 1-3 timer every day.

Building a relationship with your list is where it's at. The money just isn't in the list. I'll take a list of 3,000 subscribers that are loyal, like my emails, and listen to my advice thus they buy from me vs. a 30,000 person list built from the burn and churn model.

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DPM70

13 years ago

LOL I love all the wannabies around here who put the 'unsubscribe' word in caps and in an awful post. Then send you half-heartedly to a terrible squeeze page in their sig.
LMAO. Belly laughs. Guffaw. Nmmh

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RyanJohnson

13 years ago

Originally Posted by DPM70

LOL I love all the wannabies around here who put the 'unsubscribe' word in caps and in an awful post. Then send you half-heartedly to a terrible squeeze page in their sig.
LMAO. Belly laughs. Guffaw. Nmmh

seriously? it's a free WSO for a free product that works... why does the squeezepage have to be up to YOUR standards? Next time I'll make sure I email you so you can tell me whether it should go live or not :rolleyes:

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IamTJM

13 years ago

It's true. Good money can be made using these strategies that annoy people like crazy. I know I don't like it at all, but all the complaining in the world isn't going to stop someone from doing something that is making them money. After all, that is why they continue to do it in the first place.

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Mauricio Lopez

13 years ago

In my opinion list building is a relationship building business... Theres no reason to bombard anyone with tons of products and service everyday.

If you can offer massive value to your list for free and every so often promote a GOOD product or service then I believe you'll gain that trust and respect from your list.

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johneye

13 years ago

I think promoting products are fine as long as you balance out between promotion and useful information. For me, you always need to build your reputation first - give useful information, guides, tips. Help out your subscribers, give before taking.

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George Curtis

13 years ago

I recommend using "filters" to take the emails you really don't care to see on a daily basis... and putting them in their own folder (bypassing the inbox) so they don't clog it.

For the ones you like... still have them "labeled" as they come in, but then archive them so that they go to that virtual folder.

I use this strategy and have now developed a swipe file of over 10,000 emails and growing every day. The marketers I like... I have their emails come to my inbox.

The marketers I don't like... I bypass the inbox and simply checkup on what they are doing periodically or when I need some ideas for a mailing for our biz or for a client's biz.

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Kingshouse 13 years ago

As long as what is coming through is quality I am quite happy to receive emails from any list I have subscribed to.

If they are coming too fast then that really is the marketers bother not mine. Why do I say that?

Simple really. If you think there are too many emails peddling not so helpful stuff then it is really your responsibility to "opt out" just the way you "opted in".

And by the way some marketers may also be trying to get you off their list if you are not buying anything from them!

I hope that helps.

Will D
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Gavori

13 years ago

Yeah, it seems people get carried away with the profit they could make. And forget that decent products and information is what makes people successful. Spam will be deleted?

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boxoun

13 years ago

Making me subscribe before I receive my product is spam and I hit the spam button.

Edit: realized this had nothing to do with anything. My apologies.

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thinkrich

13 years ago

This is why I am not on many of the "gurus" mailing lists They dont offer anything but sales pitches each time and they have a hefty price tag.

I was on one guy's mailing list for 3 weeks. All he sent were $97 offers the whole time... blah!

I am finding that more of the smaller marketers are learning how to email effectively to their lists, instead of casting a net.

I understand you dont want things like "Pre-Approved Visa Credit Card" shoved into your inbox, but you always have the option of unsubscribing to any mailing list at any time. That is your right.

As someone else has stated, nobody cares whether you unsubscribe or not. They dont know you as an individual.

Yes, you can be selective as to which lists you are on.

If you are put off by a message that does not fit with the usual information supplied by that person, then you can always write to them and say that you really were distressed by that particular email and would prefer if they stuck with the main content that they usually supply.

Give em a kick. It wont hurt...promise!

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Coby

13 years ago

I mail 1-3 times a day, have a large and responsive list...

But I only promote 1-3 products a week - so I am giving tons of value...

It's just what your business goals are, long term, short term etc...

Some guys don't plan to be here in 5 years... While others think we'll just be getting started in 5 years...

To each his own - you will never be able to convince group a that their way is wrong compared to the way group b does is and vice versa...

Just gotta be yourself, find what your comfortable with and go with it....

No matter how much or how less you send emails some people are just not going to like you for any or no reason at all...

I once unsubscribed from a guy's list because I didn't like the way he said his name in videos lol...

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winseosoft

13 years ago

We all subscribe to another IM people lists.
Is good to know what strategies they approach on people or how they try to sell you ****.
Sometimes I laugh my head off of what people can do when they are disperate to make money online.

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I will UNSUBSCRIBE from your mailing list immediately...

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