Why The Blog Thread Was Removed And Not Brought Back...

[admin]

Alice Seba explained it perfectly in her post, so I stole it for this thread...

------------------
By Alice Seba:

I did NO reporting of this, but threads like that do make me wonder why they are allowed. I'm not talking about the resulting excitement and participation. I think it's great people are enjoying it, BUT a thread labeled as "Colleen's 30-Day Challenge" or "Rick's Big Prize Giveaway" or "Jane's Yada Yada" are self-serving and promotional.

It's Allen's forum. It's the Warrior Forum. Never in my wildest dreams would I think of posting a thread that gave me ownership over it (i.e. no "Alice's Knitting Contest" or anything like it). I don't know. It just seems like something someone shouldn't do in somebody else's virtual home.

Why is it self-promotional? Because it's done to build up traffic, gain a following and boost one's reputation in the forum. Why not just post a "30-Day Challenge", post all the details IN the thread and motivate one another that way?

That's just me. Just my perspective...I've been told I'm wrong before. :-)

Alice

-----------------------

What you don't see behind the scenes is that these type of threads, if successful, encourage others to do the same thing. Just take a moment to imagine that for a second and you will not have to ask about it anymore.

You can't allow 50 people to start threads that will remain on the front page day after day after day...

We deleted at least 30 posts, or more, along the same lines because of that thread. Truth is the blog thread should never have been allowed from the first day. Not because it was 'bad' or anything like that. But because of what it 'always' leads to in a big forum.

Those threads are for 'private' forums or forums set up for that specifically and nothing else.

So that's the deal. It was moderated out a second time and I asked the admins to leave it alone and let it stay out because of all the loonies coming out of the woodwork trying to copy it.

Allen

[LegitIncomes]

Sounds more than fair to me.

I've seen so many of these "challenge" type posts I'm not even sure what you are referring to as the "blog thread", but whatever the case it's your forum to run as you see fit. Anyone that doesn't like it can leave.

[Joseph Then]

You are the owner, I respect your views and your decision.

And I think it's a good judgment too.

[Steven Wagenheim]

This is good. At least now when we see these threads, we can reference
this thread and report it.

Makes life very simple.

[JayXtreme]

Thanks for raising this issue Allen..

Just recently I don't know what to report, I don't want you to think I'm some crazy report freak.. so I have been holding back on the reporting when I'm here, so it's good for you to give us some insight into what needs to stay and go


Peace..

Jay

[ExRat]

Hi,

The strange thing is - it's back???

Colleen Slater's 30 Day Blog Challenge - Cash Prizes

clickety click click (just kidding)

[JCTunes]

Allen:

I'm glad you came forward and explained why the thread was deleted. I'm sure a lot of us that were participating in the challenge just wanted to find out the reasoning behind the decision.

There's enough information here for us to go on trying to make our first $1 by blogging or any other IM means. Time to go searching......

[ExRat]

Hi,

It's gone again. It wasn't me honest.

[Louis Raven]

Good call, Allen.

I love the "challenge".. "watch me" threads but understand the reactions of some (copying, self promotion) aren't good for a forum environment.

I recently refrained from reporting a blatant "just go here to watch" spam thread because the author is.. well.. let's just say respected.

But, regardles of the author if spam is spam, from now on I will report it as I now realise even if they're not directly selling something (off the bat) it can still be promotional and gathering followers IE SPAM.

Louis

[Jen McVey]

I was participating in the challenge, so was disappointed to see it go. However many times it went. If nothing else, it got me motivated to post to my new blog daily.

However, I can definitely see the self-promotion side of it too, and was quite surprised it stuck around as long as it did. Will be interested to see what, if any, plans are made to bring the Challenge and participants together OFF the Warrior Forum.

[IMChick]

I absolutely agree that it doesn't belong here. It hurts my brain to constantly have to filter out all the self-promotion and nonsense while I'm reading on the news and events in the forum. Good call.

[JCTunes]

Originally Posted by Jen McVey

I was participating in the challenge, so was disappointed to see it go. However many times it went. If nothing else, it got me motivated to post to my new blog daily.

However, I can definitely see the self-promotion side of it too, and was quite surprised it stuck around as long as it did. Will be interested to see what, if any, plans are made to bring the Challenge and participants together OFF the Warrior Forum.

I'm with you on that one, Jen.

[Mark Kaye]

Well I got about two days into the challenge before slacking off myself...so I was out of the running before the first "nuking."

[Jeremy Kelsall]

And the boss man has spoken

Thanks for the clarification Allen. Your explanation definitely gives us all a better understanding of what is acceptable and unacceptable.

Jeremy

[Johnny Slater]

Isn't that what sig files are for? If anyone wants to create thes types of posts or blogs the best way to handle it would be to put it on your own site and have a link in your sig file. You won't get as many people as you would with a standard post but as long as it's in your sig file it's not breaking any rules.

I believe regardless of intention if it is self promotional then it would fall within the boundry of breaking the forum rules if it was posted in the main forum as a post.

Originally Posted by TMG Enterprises

I can understand the reasoning behind this decision. It could and most likely would end up being seriously abused. I am curious, though - is there a way to let people know about a challenge that would be carried out on their own blog without being seen as self-promotional?

Not for blatant self-promotion but like in the case of Tiffany Dow's article marketing thread a while back. She wasn't selling anything to anyone in the thread but it was more of a motivation to both herself and anyone who wanted to boost their AM efforts. I enjoy this type of thing and like to see how people do with it and the results they end up with.

I don't think I would ever see this type of thing if they weren't able to at least post an informational thread here to point people to wherever they are holding the actual challenge.

[Andyhenry]

I'm glad to read that, I was wondering how long it would be before the whole front page was covered with them. There seem to be some people that look at high count threads and try to copy the tactic and this type of thing seemed to be increasing.

Thanks Allen (and Alice)

[John Taylor]

Originally Posted by TMG Enterprises

I am curious, though - is there a way to let people know about a challenge that would be carried out on their own blog without being seen as self-promotional?

Use the WSO & Classified forums.. that's what they are
there for.

Use your sig to promote your offers or to drive traffic to
your blog/challenge whatever.

John

[Eric Lorence]

It's easy enough to sign up for each said promoter's blog or newsletter.

Other people need a chance to contribute as well.

And there is no point in complaining about a thread being deleted. Threads like those are more about ego, and a complete waste of time.

It takes about an hour to set up a personal forum...

Just my 2

[Kurt]

Kurt's Response to Allen's Post:

Thanks!

[TiffanyDow]

Originally Posted by TMG Enterprises

Not for blatant self-promotion but like in the case of Tiffany Dow's article marketing thread a while back. She wasn't selling anything to anyone in the thread but it was more of a motivation to both herself and anyone who wanted to boost their AM efforts. I enjoy this type of thing and like to see how people do with it and the results they end up with.

I want to address this because my name was brought up in another thread as an example.

I've been cringing behind my computer screen knowing I contributed to this onslaught - my deepest apologies, Allen. Before, I was thinking "I'm not selling a WSO, I have no info products on article marketing, so it's okay." But it wasn't.

I did it before I saw a ton pop up and haven't done it since because it was deleted, brought back, etc. Made me feel awful. I didn't see a way to change the title to the thread once it was done and every time someone updated I wish they hadn't because I wanted it to just die off and go away - Allen only brought it back because so many people wanted it, but he DID warn then that it wasn't something he appreciated.

Lesson learned and I can definitely see it how Alice/Allen described. I wasn't selling anything, no - but it WAS self branding in the works using my name, which is why I have tail tucked between my legs and am steering clear of these types of contest threads.

You know what it reminds me of? Anyone a fan of Curb Your Enthusiasm? In season 1 there's a dinner party at Larry David's house and one of the guests comes in and sits at the head of the table and leads dinner. That's what I suspect Alice and Allen are getting at regarding this statement >>Never in my wildest dreams would I think of posting a thread that gave me ownership over it.<<

I hope you know I would never intentionally step on your toes - too much respect for the forum. I ****ed up with no malice intended and now I won't - end of story

Tiff

[Oland]

I concur.

[What do you mean I'm not allowed to post one liners? - Ok, I'll add some more]

Thank you for a great forum, Allen!

[ptone]

Originally Posted by John Taylor

Use the WSO & Classified forums.. that's what they are
there for.

Use your sig to promote your offers or to drive traffic to
your blog/challenge whatever.

John

I agree with John on this. Seems to me the WSO or Classifieds would be the PERFECT place to run a challenge. The thread can get as hot as it wants without sitting on the front page all the time (unless you pay to bump - which is cool, too).

If you are using the forum as a way to build a reputation and a following, then $20 is a cheap way to do that and the benefits could be enormous.

[Kim Standerline]

What about Pearson's challange to earn a dollar in ten weeks from the comfort of his bed lol

To be honest his thread underlined it all perfectly

Cheers
Kim

[Allen Graves]

These type of threads prompted me to write a blog post about how I felt about a couple of them...

http://www.warriorforum.com/blogs/al...watch-out.html

Basically, if you are going to lead people down a path, make sure it's not a path to bankruptcy while you line your pockets with thier hopes and dreams.

AL

[Steven Wagenheim]

Originally Posted by TiffanyDow

I want to address this because my name was brought up in another thread as an example.

I've been cringing behind my computer screen knowing I contributed to this onslaught - my deepest apologies, Allen. Before, I was thinking "I'm not selling a WSO, I have no info products on article marketing, so it's okay." But it wasn't.

I did it before I saw a ton pop up and haven't done it since because it was deleted, brought back, etc. Made me feel awful. I didn't see a way to change the title to the thread once it was done and every time someone updated I wish they hadn't because I wanted it to just die off and go away - Allen only brought it back because so many people wanted it, but he DID warn then that it wasn't something he appreciated.

Lesson learned and I can definitely see it how Alice/Allen described. I wasn't selling anything, no - but it WAS self branding in the works using my name, which is why I have tail tucked between my legs and am steering clear of these types of contest threads.

You know what it reminds me of? Anyone a fan of Curb Your Enthusiasm? In season 1 there's a dinner party at Larry David's house and one of the guests comes in and sits at the head of the table and leads dinner. That's what I suspect Alice and Allen are getting at regarding this statement >>Never in my wildest dreams would I think of posting a thread that gave me ownership over it.<<

I hope you know I would never intentionally step on your toes - too much respect for the forum. I ****ed up with no malice intended and now I won't - end of story

Tiff

Tiff, don't beat yourself up over this. You've got nothing on me when it
comes to ****ing up. I've learned some valuable lessons as well these
past few weeks and I too am going to walk a very narrow line from hereon
in.

And maybe if we all set that kind of example, we'll soon see the day where
the violating threads and the ones complaining about them being gone, are
history.

One can only hope.

[Oland]

Originally Posted by Allen Graves

These type of threads prompted me to write a blog post about how I felt about a couple of them...

http://www.warriorforum.com/blogs/al...watch-out.html

Basically, if you are going to lead people down a path, make sure it's not a path to bankruptcy while you line your pockets with thier hopes and dreams.

AL

Being on the subject of removing promotional threads I find it interresting that you're referring to a self promoting blog post.

[Allen Graves]

Originally Posted by Oland

Being on the subject of removing promotional threads I find it interresting that you're referring to a self promoting blog post.

DOH!

In all seriousness, read it again, the blog post never mentions me or my product or my services. It doesn't even hint at me or my stuff.

Self promotion, in my book, is when these idiots come in here and start posting links to their frickin sales pages right in the middle of a thread...or blatantly saying that the answer to all of this can be found in their WSO...or that the absolute best answers for their problems can be found in their membership site...or hijacking a thread by turning it into a 3 page sales letter for their ebook, and then saying that they are only trying to help.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize when limits are being exceeded.

AL

[Oland]

Originally Posted by Allen Graves

DOH!

In all seriousness, read it again, the blog post never mentions me or my product or my services. It doesn't even hint at me or my stuff.

Self promotion, in my book, is when these idiots come in here and start posting links to their frickin sales pages right in the middle of a thread...or blatantly saying that the answer to all of this can be found in their WSO...or hijacking a thread by turning it into a 3 page sales letter for their stuff, and then saying that they are only trying to help.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize when you are pushing the limits.

AL

Allen, I call it as I see it. I really don't want to argue with you.

[thebrokenbox]

Originally Posted by Jen McVey

I was participating in the challenge, so was disappointed to see it go. However many times it went. If nothing else, it got me motivated to post to my new blog daily.

However, I can definitely see the self-promotion side of it too, and was quite surprised it stuck around as long as it did. Will be interested to see what, if any, plans are made to bring the Challenge and participants together OFF the Warrior Forum.

I hope so because I was actually still in the challenge and was really enjoying that thread. I hope that we can figure out something, it would be a shame to not finish the challenge, but I do see how it could be self promotion.

[Martin Luxton]

Guys and gals,

This happened in a previous thread and it's starting to happen here.

Can we stop the finger-pointing ("you have no right to complain coz you do it, too!").

Allen has given his explanation (which he didn't have to do) so let's move on.

If you think something is too self-promotional report it but don't make a song and dance about it.

Martin

[Allen Graves]

Originally Posted by Oland

Allen, I call it as I see it. I really don't want to argue with you.

And I tell it like it is, which is what I did in the blog post, so if you don't want to argue...dont. I've spent a long time doing what I can to protect people from scammers like this and trying to pick up pieces left over from their wake.

But it's not about you or me, Oland.

It's simple, really. People come here and create these "watch me" threads and end up selling a bunch of crap and that brings with it the potential to ruin people's businesses (and lives). And that ticks me off because I've seen what can happen many times over.

Please forgive me if I seem too passionate about it.

There are those that are genuine, like Tiff's, but lately they've mostly been for self-promotion and pre-selling.

Thanks,
AL

[Steven Fullman]

Allen,

The copycats ruined a perfectly good, nay inspirational, thread (at least for all those involved).

Hey, but it's your gig, and your say. Thanks for taking the time to answer.

Kind regards,
Steve

[Steven Fullman]

Originally Posted by Allen Graves

These type of threads prompted me to write a blog post about how I felt about a couple of them...

http://www.warriorforum.com/blogs/al...watch-out.html

Basically, if you are going to lead people down a path, make sure it's not a path to bankruptcy while you line your pockets with thier hopes and dreams.

AL

Al, dude,

With all due respect...and believe me, I'm FULL of respect for you, but I think you're wrong in this instance...as long as this instance relates to the OP's mention of THAT dead thread!

Keeping up? Good.

Alls I wanted to say was I disagree with the quoted quote I quoted you about.

We ain't all sheep.

Steve

[Allen Graves]

Thanks Steve,

I blanketed the entire thing. Apologies all around.

I just hate seeing people get ripped off from those OTHER threads.

AL

[ECS Dave]

I have a question...

If Colleen had paid the fee to post
Colleen Slater's 30 Day Blog Challenge
in the classified ad section would
it have been allowed?

Be Well!
ECS Dave

[Michelle Adams]

Thanks for the explanation Allen. I'm new to the forum and am taking part in the challenge but couldn't understand why the thread got deleted. Now I do understand it fully, thank you.

[admin]

Originally Posted by ECS Dave

I have a question...

If Colleen had paid the fee to post
Colleen Slater's 30 Day Blog Challenge
in the classified ad section would
it have been allowed?

Be Well!
ECS Dave

You could sell a puppy in the classified section, so yes, it would have been ok. Come to think about it, she's free to have us move it there if she'd like.

[Bryan Kumar]

It's Allen's forum. It's the Warrior Forum. Never in my wildest dreams would I think of posting a thread that gave me ownership over it (i.e. no "Alice's Knitting Contest" or anything like it). I don't know. It just seems like something someone shouldn't do in somebody else's virtual home.

It certainly reveals a whole lot about the people who do this (walking into somebody else's home and posting up a huge banner promoting themselves. Try doing that inside someone's real home and see what happens.)

Everytime I see posts like those, my trigger finger starts itching. (It's a good thing I have great self control. lol) Maybe the intention behind the post was good. But, the method is just bad, in my opinion.

I'm glad we're putting an end to this stuff.

Bryan

[mmurtha]

To be honest about it Allen, I've never understood why people don't post these challenges as announcements either in the WSO section or Classifieds, and then have everyone that is participating go and post to their blog or whatnot. Seems to me they'd get their traffic, particpants get the info they seek from other particpants, and the entire party has a great time. The best part is that they wouldn't be encouraging other posters to post similar threads here in the Main discussion forum.

[Paul Myers]

Allen,

You could sell a puppy in the classified section

Really? Cool.

Wait... I don't have a puppy. I have a cat named Dumbass, though. Does that count?

Anyway, on a useful note... I had never thought of using the classifieds in that way. (Contests/follow along/etc threads, that is.) How do you miss something that obvious?


Paul

PS: Really. That's his name. Guests come over, I call the cat, and when the guests answer, I say, "Not you. The other Dumbass."

Hours of fun.

[60MinuteAffiliate]

Hello Allen and other warrior members,

I'd like to apologise for having clearly done the wrong thing with my 30 day blog challenge, though that wasn't evident to me at the beginning. No disrespect was intended Allen and I hope I've not offended you in any way. I value the warrior forum and the warriors in it immensely and have done so for many years.

I appreciate everyone's feedback and comments in this regard and I join everyone in being thankful for having this issue clarified for myself and all warriors.

I'd like to thank everyone who is participating in the challenge also and for moving over to a challenge forum on one of my sites, which obviously in hindsight is the place I should have put it in the first place.

Once again, many apologies and I wish you all a wonderful 2009.

Kind regards

Colleen

[Charles Washington]

Why is the "$4500 Case Study" thread still up then? This guy had a WSO in his sig before he ever had a single response. That was the most blatent attempt as self promotion I have seen on WF. His thread is about how wonderful public domains are, and he is promoting a WSO, not only in his sig, but also within some of his posts as well.

[Kay King]

Colleen -

What a classy reply! No complaint, no angst or anger - just a businesslike approach.

kay

[mmurtha]

Hey shkad14,

Why is the "$4500 Case Study" thread still up then? This guy had a WSO in his sig before he ever had a single response. That was the most blatent attempt as self promotion I have seen on WF. His thread is about how wonderful public domains are, and he is promoting a WSO, not only in his sig, but also within some of his posts as well.

If the thread is as bad as you claim, why don't you report the thread as people did with Collen's? Just a thought ...


Collen,

Kay's right, you reply was a good one. Lesson learned.

Seriously, peoplefoul all the time around here, but once they figure out, they are better members. Hope your blog challenge is doing well with the new move. Btw, I bet they have more freedom to post on your site, plus you get the direct traffic.

Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap

Can I sell Paul Myers? I can throw a John Taylor in as a bonus.

Lol Thomas,

Who in the devil will buy a redneck??

[John Taylor]

Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap

Can I sell Paul Myers? I can throw a John Taylor in as a bonus.

You couldn't afford either of us, but as a package? Priceless.

[Chris Hunter]

Does anyone know why Kneb's very knowledgeable thread about public domain work was removed?

Also, are we now saying that no kind of forum marketing can take place on a forum full of marketers? LOL!! I mean, come on.

Not trying to be disrespectful in anyway, just curious as to where the lines are drawn, so I thought that I'd ask and not test the boundaries.

[Paul Coleman]

Ok, if someone creates a very useful thread and at the end of their post says, "Check my sig for more info." And in their sig is a link to their related WSO...

...is this out of line?

I'm trying to find the exact boundaries. For me, if someone gives great info in a post, I want to check out their WSO on that same topic.

Thanks,

Paul

[Chris Hunter]

Originally Posted by ic7

Ok, if someone creates a very useful thread and at the end of their post says, "Check my sig for more info." And in their sig is a link to their related WSO...

...is this out of line?

I'm trying to find the exact boundaries. For me, if someone gives great info in a post, I want to check out their WSO on that same topic.

Thanks,

Paul

Paul, same for me.

[jjpmarketing]

Originally Posted by admin

You could sell a puppy in the classified section, so yes, it would have been ok. Come to think about it, she's free to have us move it there if she'd like.

That might actually be good for the classifieds section. It will draw more attention to it. Would benefit folks who post ads out in no-mans land... er.. I mean the classified section.

[Martin Luxton]

Originally Posted by ic7

Ok, if someone creates a very useful thread and at the end of their post says, "Check my sig for more info." And in their sig is a link to their related WSO...

...is this out of line?

I'm trying to find the exact boundaries. For me, if someone gives great info in a post, I want to check out their WSO on that same topic.

Thanks,

Paul

That's a difficult one.

If that happened the question I would ask is

"Which came first? The WSO or the thread?"

And it's hard to know the answer to that because we can't read the OP's mind. It's a judgement call. If a Warrior is not very active and then suddenly starts a thread linked to a WSO I would be suspicious.

That could suggest they were not 'giving freely' to the forum but only posting for their own benefit. Yes, people would still benefit from the post but it's a poisoned chalice.

Related to this is the integrity of the post. If my post were designed to promote a WSO, wouldn't I be just a little bit tempted to embellish things a little?

It's kind of an unwritten rule that you don't keep drawing attention to your sig file. In a sense, it's not necessary. If you make good posts people will check you out anyway.

Having said all that, Jason Moffat was commenting on how he abandoned an idea for a blog project for Warriors because he got flak from people who thought it was pure self-promotion.

We can't know people's intentions. We can only make an educated guess based on our experience and knowledge of the person concerned.

And, if we are not sure, we have to give them the benefit of the doubt.

Martin