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Will paypal rule in my favour over a digital good?

by Rambo007
21 replies
Hello,

I am going to sell an ebook via ejunkie and with a no refund policy.

If someone opens a dispute via paypal will they just give them the money back like clickbank? will i be protected at all?

There seems to be a lot of conflicting suggestions when I search on Google. Anyone had any experience?
#digital #favour #good #paypal #rule
  • Profile picture of the author barbling
    Originally Posted by Rambo007 View Post

    Hello,

    I am going to sell an ebook via ejunkie and with a no refund policy.

    If someone opens a dispute via paypal will they just give them the money back like clickbank? will i be protected at all?

    There seems to be a lot of conflicting suggestions when I search on Google. Anyone had any experience?
    Out of curiosity, why no refund?

    I've seen that where the price is less than $10 to discourage serial refunders....is that why?
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  • Profile picture of the author roundsoftz
    I used to work for paypal...

    There is NO such thing as auto-retun like CB (unless your account gets disabled)

    There will be an opportunity for you to dispute the dispute... but you better have some documentation... paypal tends to favor the merchant unless it becomes a continuing problem with a specific merchant or product.

    Originally Posted by Rambo007 View Post

    Hello,

    I am going to sell an ebook via ejunkie and with a no refund policy.

    If someone opens a dispute via paypal will they just give them the money back like clickbank? will i be protected at all?

    There seems to be a lot of conflicting suggestions when I search on Google. Anyone had any experience?
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  • Profile picture of the author sanjon
    Paypal favours the merchant most of the time and the customers get screwd.
    of course, they can always view the transaction as dispute and keep the money with themselves till the time the investigations are complete and a investigation can take upto 6 months also.

    I would suggest go for a refund policy like within 30 days and U will surely sell better
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  • Profile picture of the author WillR
    Originally Posted by Rambo007 View Post

    Hello,

    I am going to sell an ebook via ejunkie and with a no refund policy.

    If someone opens a dispute via paypal will they just give them the money back like clickbank? will i be protected at all?

    There seems to be a lot of conflicting suggestions when I search on Google. Anyone had any experience?
    I would also question why you are not willing to offer a refund policy. Yes, you may end up with a few refunds but you need to concentrate on the increased sales you will receive by having a refund policy in place.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rambo007
    I am actually in a niche where having a NO refund policy seems to add to the credibility of the product.

    It might sound odd but its worked very well for me.

    Anyway, What sort of documentation would be sufficient for this?

    I can obviously grab screenshots of my refund terms and conditions and the ejunkie account log which shows that they downloaded the product. Is that ok?
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    • Profile picture of the author WillR
      Originally Posted by Rambo007 View Post

      I am actually in a niche where having a NO refund policy seems to add to the credibility of the product.

      It might sound odd but its worked very well for me.

      Anyway, What sort of documentation would be sufficient for this?

      I can obviously grab screenshots of my refund terms and conditions and the ejunkie account log which shows that they downloaded the product. Is that ok?
      If they really want their money back they will just do a chargeback directly with their bank and you will find it very hard to stop that - you don't even have a chance to respond to that.

      Just be careful when dealing with Paypal. If people want to take advantage of your product they will do so. If you make it hard for those people to get their money back they will still do it - it will just have more of a negative influence on you.
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  • Profile picture of the author WarriorVampire
    People may dispute if they want refunds.. But you still avoid their refunds with proof you have... Paypal will not give any amount to wrong person...
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    • Profile picture of the author LilBlackDress
      A representative at Paypal told me that consumers are NOT covered for digital, non tangible goods. They said that if you sell a website, ebook or what have you the buyer cannot get a refund if they claim they did not get it etc.

      I personally ordered a non tangible service from someone who did not complete the order and I was told it was intangible and I could not get a refund.

      However, I had a customer file for a refund on an ebook claiming Unauthorized Transaction and Paypal awarded them the refund. (Not sure why they didn't just ask me for a refund but made up a story instead but I digress...)

      So my thought is that they will give a refund if the consumer says it is an Unauthorized Transaction but they will not give a refund if the consumer says they didn't get it.

      That has been my experience and fits with what Paypal told me.
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      • Profile picture of the author NicoleBeckett
        Originally Posted by LilBlackDress View Post

        A representative at Paypal told me that consumers are NOT covered for digital, non tangible goods. They said that if you sell a website, ebook or what have you the buyer cannot get a refund if they claim they did not get it etc.

        Interesting... A PayPal representative just told me the exact opposite! :confused:

        Here's what I was told - Sending digital products (like an ebook, article, etc) through email doesn't count as proof that you actually sent it. According to the PayPal rep, they can't "track" emails like you can a UPS or FedEx shipment, so showing them an email where you sent something to a customer isn't going to count, and the buyer is going to get his money back.

        Anyone else hearing this??? Scary thought for those of us who use email, rather than actually shipping something!
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        • Profile picture of the author raylee1
          i'm currently creating a fitness dvd with resell rights, probably about an hour long.the refund issue is what im looking at now, i'd rather have no refund policy myself.
          depending on the file size i may set it as a download,if not ill post them on a disc.
          looking around others selling dvd products like fitness dvds with resell rights which are of a high value content, they dont offer refunds because the customer can copy the disc,ask for a refund and carry on selling as their own.
          if anyone has any advice on what i should offer on this type of product i'd be gratefull.
          ive had a dispute with one customer a while back, he got the discs within a week but my graphics were a few days late (my fault i had a pc problem, but paypal went in his favour and i had to pay back £300,which pee'd me off.
          i'm trying to make sure i do it right with my own new product, i'll be selling for around £147 (it will be cheaper on the wso) and i dont want to be paying back this amount of money.
          i will be putting a sample together so the customer will see what the quality is like before they buy,this should keep them happy.
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        • Profile picture of the author Bruce NewMedia
          Originally Posted by NicoleBeckett View Post

          Interesting... A PayPal representative just told me the exact opposite! :confused:

          Here's what I was told - Sending digital products (like an ebook, article, etc) through email doesn't count as proof that you actually sent it. According to the PayPal rep, they can't "track" emails like you can a UPS or FedEx shipment, so showing them an email where you sent something to a customer isn't going to count, and the buyer is going to get his money back.

          Anyone else hearing this??? Scary thought for those of us who use email, rather than actually shipping something!
          Nicole, that does not square with everything I heard regarding PayPal and digital product refunds.

          It would be interesting if you were to contact them again, presumably speaking to a different rep, and see if you get the same answer.
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          • Profile picture of the author roundsoftz
            Here's the Dealio with Digital goods... If the customer says they didn't like it or it wasn't as described.. Customer is getting nothing unless you send the refund.

            If customer says you never delivered... you get slammed.

            That said, I agree and practice with those that have a refund policy and abide by it... makes life simpler.
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        • Profile picture of the author LilBlackDress
          Originally Posted by NicoleBeckett View Post

          Interesting... A PayPal representative just told me the exact opposite! :confused:

          Here's what I was told - Sending digital products (like an ebook, article, etc) through email doesn't count as proof that you actually sent it. According to the PayPal rep, they can't "track" emails like you can a UPS or FedEx shipment, so showing them an email where you sent something to a customer isn't going to count, and the buyer is going to get his money back.

          Anyone else hearing this??? Scary thought for those of us who use email, rather than actually shipping something!
          I actually spoke to two different reps and both told me that they do NOT cover digital goods. And I found this to be true when I applied for a refund for a non tangible online service I did not get.

          And in the Paypal User Agreement;

          https://cms.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/?c...Agreement_full

          13.3 Ineligible Items. PayPal Purchase Protection only applies to PayPal payments for certain tangible, physical goods. Payments for the following are not eligible for reimbursement under PayPal Purchase Protection:
          · Intangible items, including Digital Goods
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      • Profile picture of the author rajivkumar900
        This is my exact experience but there are few exception, if you buy something expensive like $600 to $1000 that case paypal favor seller instead of buyer...it happen with me .
        Originally Posted by LilBlackDress View Post

        A representative at Paypal told me that consumers are NOT covered for digital, non tangible goods. They said that if you sell a website, ebook or what have you the buyer cannot get a refund if they claim they did not get it etc.

        I personally ordered a non tangible service from someone who did not complete the order and I was told it was intangible and I could not get a refund.

        However, I had a customer file for a refund on an ebook claiming Unauthorized Transaction and Paypal awarded them the refund. (Not sure why they didn't just ask me for a refund but made up a story instead but I digress...)

        So my thought is that they will give a refund if the consumer says it is an Unauthorized Transaction but they will not give a refund if the consumer says they didn't get it.

        That has been my experience and fits with what Paypal told me.
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        • Profile picture of the author LilBlackDress
          Originally Posted by rajivkumar900 View Post

          This is my exact experience but there are few exception, if you buy something expensive like $600 to $1000 that case paypal favor seller instead of buyer...it happen with me .
          Do you mean you were favored when the buyer claimed it was an Unauthorized Transaction?
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          • Profile picture of the author Alex Kage
            Originally Posted by LilBlackDress View Post

            Do you mean you were favored when the buyer claimed it was an Unauthorized Transaction?
            Yeah, I want to know that too. Does that mean he lost money and paypal gained money or the other way around ?
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  • Profile picture of the author JasonParker
    You are all forgetting one thing...

    None of this conversation really matters.

    If you don't give a refund when someone asks, then you're going to get your name dragged through the mud all over the internet by that pissed off customer.
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    • Profile picture of the author Black Hat Cat
      Banned
      Originally Posted by JasonParker View Post

      You are all forgetting one thing...

      None of this conversation really matters.

      If you don't give a refund when someone asks, then you're going to get your name dragged through the mud all over the internet by that pissed off customer.
      Meanwhile, back in the real world....
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  • Profile picture of the author kralcx
    Check out paypalsucksdotcom that should tell you all you need to know about the evils of Paypal
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  • Profile picture of the author Daniel Evans
    Originally Posted by Rambo007 View Post

    Hello,

    I am going to sell an ebook via ejunkie and with a no refund policy.

    If someone opens a dispute via paypal will they just give them the money back like clickbank? will i be protected at all?

    There seems to be a lot of conflicting suggestions when I search on Google. Anyone had any experience?
    If someone raises a dispute and PayPal intervenes manually and it arsies that you have a no refund policy either by the buyers statement, your own admission / terms stated on your website, the likelyhood is you'll be penalized.

    All payment providers frown greatly upon non-refund policies since they create huge liability for digital goods.
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