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Suicidal to Promote Amazon?

by kindsvater
35 replies
I saw a TV commercial by Amazon that left me slack-jawed. It shows people in stores pointing their smart phone with the Amazon app at products on the shelf,

getting Amazon's price,

buying from Amazon,

then putting the product back on the store shelf.

Basically, using physical stores as Amazon's showroom.

Stunning.

One of the products was diapers.

I couldn't find the commercial to show here, but I found this comment on another site about it:

I constantly scan items at stores to purchase on amazon, usually at bookstores or at best buy.

Amazon prime is incredibly worth it. It lets me purchase items at amazon's usually low prices without having to deal with shipping costs. You do have to order often from amazon in order to make the 79 dollar cost worth it, but i've supplanted a lot of purchases I would normally do in person with amazon. Shoot, I don't even buy cereal anymore....I have my cereal come in on a regular basis through amazon on a subscribe and save program.

Also, even if I am going to buy something at the store, I will usually scan and price check on amazon just to be sure I'm getting a good deal. I went to buy an exercise bike at big 5 sporting goods, scanned it and realized that amazon had the bike for a full 30 dollars less plus I wouldn't have to deal with lugging it home! Total win.
I've sold products on Amazon, and Amazon's contract required that the Amazon price be lower than the price sold elsewhere.

If I were selling physical products I'd be pissed.

The irony, of course, is this problem is mostly self-inflicted. A business does not have to sell their products through Amazon.

As an affiliate, the long-term model is even worse. Those phone app purchases are not clicks from your site and no commissions are paid.

Even if your affiliate website was the one that originally sold the person on buying the product.

There is short-term thinking and long-term thinking.

As evidence by a countless number of dubious marketing activities constantly discussed on the forum, there is no shortage of short-term thinking. Try to make a few bucks now and not worry about spam or getting shut down.

But long-term ....

- What products are you selling and promoting?

- As the buying market becomes more mobile is there a reason to visit your site? Even if they do, will you get paid or will your commissions be circumvented by apps?

- If your goal as an affiliate is to quickly get people to Amazon, at some point will they follow your advice and start at Amazon instead of your site?

- As an affiliate, is it in your interest to promote sites other than Amazon? Even if those sites do not have an affiliate program?

- As a product seller, is it worth being "commoditized" on Amazon to sell mostly on price instead of getting buyers to your website?

- As a product seller, can you use Amazon as a front-end to get customers with the long-term goal of getting them to your website instead?

- Is your marketing strategy a slow path to suicide?


Or - should we just fold it up and go work for an Amazon distribution center?

.
#amazon #promote #suicidal
  • Profile picture of the author fluffythewondercat
    I think the mistake most people make is to treat Amazon as if it were monolithic, whereas it is really just a collection of many different businesses obsessively managed by Jeff Bezos. They should just call it Bezos Inc.

    If you look at it as many different businesses it's easy to identify opportunities and avoid pitfalls.

    For example, I'm a product seller with a website but I *don't* sell those products on Amazon. Instead, I incorporate affiliate links into that website. (I don't care if shoppers leave my site -- I have a hard core who buy no matter what.) I have Amazon affiliate links on a few other non-product sites as well.

    I do sell other stuff on Amazon through FBA. Those things have high profit margins and Amazon ships them. I love it.

    I buy small services on Amazon's Mechanical Turk.

    And for a while I used Amazon's Product Ads.

    All different businesses. I would never go whole-hog affiliate or product seller, since the rug can be yanked out from under me at a moment's notice.

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    • Profile picture of the author jan roos
      This shows that people are buying more and more online and as a result us online marketers will make more money.

      Will apps completely overtake sales made from a pc and websites? Not any time soon IMO.

      There is a crap ton of traffic online for physical products and Amazon is also not the only game in town.

      Checkout this site Product Reviews and Reports - ConsumerSearch.com

      That is an authority review site worth over 10 million.

      If I had an offline retail store I'd be disturbed because of this new trend but being an online guy I am more optimistic than ever. We are still in the early stages of IM and lucky to be able to get in early.

      That's my opinion of course and worth only as much as you paid for it.

      Cheers

      Jan
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  • Profile picture of the author TopKat22
    I have sold Amazon in the past and with recent developments, might very well be doing it again. In any business, online or offline, whatever method, there will always be some risk.

    For now, I think Amazon might just be a goldmine. :-)

    However, I will still keep doing my list building so that I don't have all eggs in one basket.
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    All I can say is I'm going to get that Amazon App and also glad that my business is not affiliate marketing.
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    • Profile picture of the author myob
      Amazon is very much so a huge goldmine. The fact that there are other buying channels besides affiliate links should be of little concern to anyone's individual marketing efforts. Develop your niches, build relationships with your lists, and marketing directly to prospects is still the most powerful sales method.
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      • Profile picture of the author kindsvater
        Originally Posted by myob View Post

        Amazon is very much so a huge goldmine. The fact that there are other buying channels besides affiliate links should be of little concern to anyone's individual marketing efforts. Develop your niches, build relationships with your lists, and marketing directly to prospects is still the most powerful sales method.
        Those are good points Paul.

        Using the diapers example in the ad where a person is showing taking a package of diapers off the store shelf, using their phone to check Amazon's pricing, clicking the Amazon phone app, then putting the diapers back on the shelf ....

        If you have a store selling diapers:

        Would you say something like diapers is a commodity and unless you have the best pricing on Amazon to look for something else to sell?

        Is the answer simply to have great customer relationships and to chalk up the occasional Amazon/price shopper as the cost of doing business? Like shoplifting?

        If you are an affiliate promoting diapers:

        Is this product evaluation and the niche is not appropriate for affiliates? Or maybe just coupon sites who can periodically beat Amazon?

        For the long-term survival of an affiliate business, what do you suggest be done to keep people coming back to you instead of bypassing you and heading off to Amazon since what it what you will be recommending anyway?

        (I suppose that last question answers itself - providing information of value that is not on Amazon, not letting Amazon be your sole referral source, not being afraid to promote a company where there is no affiliate program and you are not getting paid, etc.)

        .
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        • Profile picture of the author myob
          Originally Posted by kindsvater View Post

          Would you say something like diapers is a commodity and unless you have the best pricing on Amazon to look for something else to sell?
          If you are selling anything as a commodity, then the only competitive advantage you will have is price. This is cut throat competition, and you will almost always lose. Instead, promote justifiably high-end diapers such as fully compostable, chlorine-free, sensitive, leaklock, ultra-absorbent, ultra-absorbent and chlorine free, extra protection, etc. Especially when you are marketing directly to niche lists, you can effectively nullify any competition with these types of differentiating marketing techniques.
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          • Profile picture of the author kindsvater
            Originally Posted by myob View Post

            If you are selling anything as a commodity, then the only competitive advantage you will have is price. This is cut throat competition, and you will almost always lose. Instead, promote justifiably high-end diapers such as fully compostable, chlorine-free, sensitive, leaklock, ultra-absorbent, ultra-absorbent and chlorine free, extra protection, etc. Especially when you are marketing directly to niche lists, you can effectively nullify any competition with these types of differentiating marketing techniques.
            Perhaps 'commodity' was the wrong term for me to use.

            Not sure of the right word, but assuming you are promoting "high-end diapers such as fully compostable, chlorine-free, sensitive, leaklock, ultra-absorbent, ultra-absorbent and chlorine free, extra protection" .... made by Pampers...

            you still end up in the same place --> Amazon will have them cheaper.

            And you're saying that is an ultimate loser position to be in. Which is why I posted the thread.

            .
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            • Profile picture of the author Bill Farnham
              Originally Posted by stong View Post

              So this is my question: If they need those diapers so urgently that they're already in the store browsing, why the hell would they compare the price with the Amazon app, decide to order some online even though it could take up to 1-2 days at the earliest to reach them, and go home empty-handed?
              Here's what seems to be missing from the conversation so far...those who use mass transit instead of their own car. And there are MILLIONS of them.

              Why would you want to lug a bunch of diapers, or any other items for that matter that can be bought competetively priced, home on a bus or a train or street car (yes, they still have those in some places) when you can have it delivered.

              ~Bill
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  • Profile picture of the author stephenwaldo
    To me I would rather be promoting a business as an affiliate that actually knows how to cement itself as a long term player (Which Amazon is doing now more than ever) rather than a business that doesn't know how to stay competitive.

    Plus, if all I'm doing as an affiliate is trying to get people off my website and onto Amazon as fast as possible...Well, it's not Amazon's fault that you're not building a long term business by offering high quality content and building a list, that's your fault.

    This all seems like nothing but good news to me. I really want that App now...I'll probably have lots more Amazon-site ideas while I'm out shopping.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
    At least Walmart has physical stores in your community and hires local residents to work there. If enough people started doing this, you can expect even more local businesses to go under. Money that leaves town seldom comes back.

    It seems to be people are being penny-wise and pound-foolish.
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  • Profile picture of the author rondo
    If Amazon showed that ad here the retail sector would freak out.

    Some local stores are even introducing a Try-on fee beacuse they fear too many people are trying on clothes then buying online from the US where things are much cheaper:
    Australia's Try-On Fee: Would You Pay To Use Dressing Rooms?



    Andrew
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  • Profile picture of the author Ryan David
    I don't view Amazon as a huge threat personally...well, unless you're selling something that can be found at Best Buy or Target.

    For most other niches, there isn't a broad array of products available on Amazon anyways. And if there is, it's likely not stocked/shipped by Amazon, therefore not eligible for Prime.

    Amazon is getting to the point where Ebay was at. People thought ebay was going to put companies out of business, then their fees got to high and sellers pulled out. Amazon takes near 25% on a lot of products less than $50 so it'll likely get to the point where sellers will start to figure it's not worth the trouble.

    I sell on Amazon. If I sell something on my site that has 10 color choices, on Amazon they just get one of the more popular combinations. The only reason I do it is because it was coming up in the universal search for Google so I figured if someone was going to be there, it was going to be me. I just undercut my competition for like a year straight and eventually a lot of them just stopped bothering with Amazon. Then I raised my price..haha..that was after I had lots of reviews.
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  • Profile picture of the author Aaron Doud
    As always if your price and service is right you will make the sale. Honestly in most stores the amazon app would be useless. Why would i buy diapers online on amazon when I can get them at wal-mart? Do you honestly belive that amazon will be that much cheaper? I doubt it.

    Yeah if I see a TV or DVD or soemthing like that amazon might get my business. But if the DVD is $15 at walmart and $13 at amazon why wouldn't I buy it at walmart right now vs waiting?

    Also if you are a price shopping i have seldom found the cheapest price at amazon. Many things are cheaper locally at walmart even. So unless amazon works hard to be the low price leader this could back fire.

    Customer scans product.
    Customer, "WTH it's $2 more on amazon"
    This happens a few times and amazon will lose customers they already had. The stuff people will scan are not things they are price competitive on. Now when that customer decides to buy a big ticket item instead of going to amazon they will google price shop sicne amazon is no longer the low prioce leader in their mind.

    Walmart has been dealing with this the last few years as they have loct customers' faith in them being the low price leader.
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    • Profile picture of the author Ryan David
      Originally Posted by lordauric View Post

      As always if your price and service is right you will make the sale. Honestly in most stores the amazon app would be useless. Why would i buy diapers online on amazon when I can get them at wal-mart? Do you honestly belive that amazon will be that much cheaper? I doubt it.

      Yeah if I see a TV or DVD or soemthing like that amazon might get my business. But if the DVD is $15 at walmart and $13 at amazon why wouldn't I buy it at walmart right now vs waiting?

      Also if you are a price shopping i have seldom found the cheapest price at amazon. Many things are cheaper locally at walmart even. So unless amazon works hard to be the low price leader this could back fire.

      Customer scans product.
      Customer, "WTH it's $2 more on amazon"
      This happens a few times and amazon will lose customers they already had. The stuff people will scan are not things they are price competitive on. Now when that customer decides to buy a big ticket item instead of going to amazon they will google price shop sicne amazon is no longer the low prioce leader in their mind.

      Walmart has been dealing with this the last few years as they have loct customers' faith in them being the low price leader.
      A few things...

      1) Yes, diapers are that much cheaper at Amazon. They have a subscribe/save option that generally saves 30% off the retail price if you agree to a set schedule of delivery.

      2) If you're just browsing through the DVDs or Video Games, most adults aren't the type that need something that instant. If they are buying something that's $100 and it saves them 7% sales tax and $5, I bet a lot of people would "Delay Gratification" and then buy at Amazon.

      3) Finally, it's a smart move by Amazon even if they still buy at Best Buy. At the very least, they are putting a hurt on their competitors margins by letting their customers know they can easily price-check them.
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  • Profile picture of the author David Bloom
    I think what people forget is that some people get overwhelmed by Amazon.com. If you provide a website that shows them exactly what to buy and all they have to do is click "Buy Now on Amazon" then you have a sale for funneling them to Amazon.
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  • Profile picture of the author focused
    That's an eye-opening report... Jeff Bezos is an extremely innovative
    marketer. And Amazon's brand continues to gain more and more credibility
    with the public.
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  • Profile picture of the author J Bold
    As I understand it, Amazon affiliate cookies last for only 24 hours, so whoever clicks on your link has to make a purchase in the next 24 hours, anyway.

    I'm not sure the point you're trying to make. Because, say someone clicks on your Amazon affiliate link direct to a product they want to buy. Do they do stop what they're doing to go to the store so they can use their mobile app to buy it on amazon straight from the mobile app while comparing it to the price at the store? Or do they stop what they're doing and get on their phone so they can use their mobile app and cut you out? What purpose does that serve? They are likely clicking on your affiliate link from their desktop or laptop so I don't see why they would suddenly get on their phone just so they can use the mobile app, instead.

    I highly doubt that this scenario will take place very often, if at all. If you've got their attention, they are likely going to buy minutes after clicking your link. If they don't, it's likely you're not going to get the sale at all, regardless of what they go do afterwards.
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  • Profile picture of the author Joshua Rigley
    Banned
    This is pretty cool. I wonder how long it'll be before someone makes an app where people can buy amazon product through their affiliate link, and then amazon bans them for it. :p

    I don't find it too disturbing, but if I was a retail store owner, I'd be ticked off if someone found a product in my store...then bought it from a different store, WHILE THEY WERE STILL IN MY FREAKING STORE.

    But I'm not, so no biggie.
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    • Profile picture of the author J Bold
      Originally Posted by Joshua Rigley View Post

      This is pretty cool. I wonder how long it'll be before someone makes an app where people can buy amazon product through their affiliate link, and then amazon bans them for it. :p

      I don't find it too disturbing, but if I was a retail store owner, I'd be ticked off if someone found a product in my store...then bought it from a different store, WHILE THEY WERE STILL IN MY FREAKING STORE.

      But I'm not, so no biggie.
      Yes, I think this would be much more of a concerning issue for brick and mortar retailers, rather than affiliates.
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    • Profile picture of the author Dale21
      Originally Posted by Joshua Rigley View Post

      I don't find it too disturbing, but if I was a retail store owner, I'd be ticked off if someone found a product in my store...then bought it from a different store, WHILE THEY WERE STILL IN MY FREAKING STORE.

      But I'm not, so no biggie.
      LOL, I agree but rather than be ticked off the store owner needs to have a way to deal with people like that. Actually I did that once when I was buying a new car, just to tick off the salesman.

      I was in a retail store not too long ago and a lady came in to buy a sale item that had a sign that they would match any competitor's price. She even brought the add with her, called a clerk over and began the process of verifying etc. Not being bashful I just walked up and asked her why didn't she just go to the other store and buy when it was right down the street. She looked at me like I was stupid and replied that the other store had a no refund policy on sale items. Ya never know what goes thru some buyers minds.
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  • Profile picture of the author ebusinesstutor
    It hurts the local retailer but the product owner doesn't care because they get the sale either way.

    I do this all the time for books in book stores. If I see a book I like, I check the price on Amazon before I buy. At the book store, a copywriting book was $17.98 in the store, $14.93 at Amazon and only $9.71 in Kindle format. So I purchased it in Kindle format on my tablet. The local book store ebook price was $13.09 so I saved $3.38 or about $26%. Why should I pay more for the same item.

    Yes, I like having a local book store available, but I expect their prices to be closer to what I can get elsewhere. A 25% higher ebook price is ridiculous.
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  • Profile picture of the author GarrieWilson
    Maybe someone should make an ap that does the same thing for affiliates. Could partner with camelcamelcamel to even provide price history.

    Sounds like, to me, aps could open up a lot of opportunity for affiliate marketers.
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  • Profile picture of the author fredlee
    Selling product on Amazon is more easier than selling product on Ebay because Ebay requires stricter rules.
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  • Profile picture of the author IMSince2003
    I am an affiliate for big, heavy, expensive items on Amazon. Nobody is going to find those at a retail outlet and scan them. Get it *hint* *hint* That's all I'm saying, maybe I said too much.
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  • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
    Originally Posted by kindsvater View Post

    Basically, using physical stores as Amazon's showroom.
    We have had this for a while.

    Over two years ago, I had a little UPC code scanner in my smartphone. I could take a picture of the UPC code on a product, and it would be looked up on Google Shopping.

    The only difference is that this new app is by Amazon, for Amazon.

    If Amazon can make you use it, then you won't use the "for anywhere" varieties of the same thing.

    This is not an offensive move against brick and mortar merchants. It's a defensive move against app developers.

    Now if you'll pardon me, I need to go find out if there's a good open source UPC scanner library for Android.
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    • Profile picture of the author stong
      The thing is, I'm not really sure if this will affect brick-and-mortar businesses as much as we think it might.

      Let's take the diapers again for example. If someone's browsing at Walmart or any other store for diapers, they're obviously looking to stock up on those because they're running out. I'm no dad, but it's pretty safe to assume that babies go through those pretty quick, since they're not reusable.

      So this is my question: If they need those diapers so urgently that they're already in the store browsing, why the hell would they compare the price with the Amazon app, decide to order some online even though it could take up to 1-2 days at the earliest to reach them, and go home empty-handed?

      If there was something I need/want right now and I'm standing right in front of a shelf stocked full of what I want, I don't think I'll go, "Hey, you know what? Let's not buy anything here, drive home and sit on the couch to wait for the deliveryman for another day because I can save $5." I would say 'screw this' and march over to the nearest check-out counter! :p

      (Incidentally this is somewhat related to the 'hungry niche' topic - Sell water to the thirsty and you'll make a fortune no matter how high the price is)

      That doesn't mean Amazon's app is totally useless - I'd say it's excellent for those shopping around for gifts, for example - but to state that it will compete with the B&M stores in every niche? I think it's really unlikely that will happen.


      (Unless somebody invents a '3D fax machine' that can print solid objects, of course. Then Amazon will truly own every market out there. )
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      • Profile picture of the author razorhound
        Originally Posted by stong View Post

        The thing is, I'm not really sure if this will affect brick-and-mortar businesses as much as we think it might.

        Let's take the diapers again for example. If someone's browsing at Walmart or any other store for diapers, they're obviously looking to stock up on those because they're running out. I'm no dad, but it's pretty safe to assume that babies go through those pretty quick, since they're not reusable.

        So this is my question: If they need those diapers so urgently that they're already in the store browsing, why the hell would they compare the price with the Amazon app, decide to order some online even though it could take up to 1-2 days at the earliest to reach them, and go home empty-handed?

        If there was something I need/want right now and I'm standing right in front of a shelf stocked full of what I want, I don't think I'll go, "Hey, you know what? Let's not buy anything here, drive home and sit on the couch to wait for the deliveryman for another day because I can save $5." I would say 'screw this' and march over to the nearest check-out counter! :p

        (Incidentally this is somewhat related to the 'hungry niche' topic - Sell water to the thirsty and you'll make a fortune no matter how high the price is)

        That doesn't mean Amazon's app is totally useless - I'd say it's excellent for those shopping around for gifts, for example - but to state that it will compete with the B&M stores in every niche? I think it's really unlikely that will happen.


        (Unless somebody invents a '3D fax machine' that can print solid objects, of course. Then Amazon will truly own every market out there. )
        I'm not a dad too but I would definitely stock up a week or two before it runs out. I might be checking the price for items I would like to stock up during my weekly grocery shopping and if I found them to be cheaper on Amazon I'd go home empty-handed and save some money. Unless, of course, if I were a last minute kinda guy or the things were just too cheap then I wouldn't wait.
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        • Profile picture of the author Matthew Shane Roe
          Originally Posted by razorhound View Post

          I'm not a dad too but I would definitely stock up a week or two before it runs out. I might be checking the price for items I would like to stock up during my weekly grocery shopping and if I found them to be cheaper on Amazon I'd go home empty-handed and save some money. Unless, of course, if I were a last minute kinda guy or the things were just too cheap then I wouldn't wait.
          Well.. I AM a dad.

          I can personally say that they do go through them like crazy and my wife and I stocked up on them for a month before the baby was due..

          Two months later.. We were buying more, we eventually got to the point where we would buy them about a week before we were "estimated to run out".

          Now that we are potty training her though we don't need them AS much. So we have only started buying them on a need-to-get basis.
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  • Profile picture of the author THK
    Maybe I am not thinking clearly, but someone who is so familiar with Amazon and their app, and somewhat certain that they will start scanning once at the store, wouldn't it be much more logical for them to start the shopping process at home.

    All the big stores that can give a considerable price break have a site and shows their price. Doing research online and then buying from local stores make some sense. But going to local stores for research and buying online seems a little backwards.

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  • Profile picture of the author KLaAz0r
    This is going on for a very long time, people just use real stores as a show room and get it online for less. it sucks for the store but for us it's cheaper
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Franklin
    Amazon's is just expediting the growing percentage of people who spend most of their discretionary income online.

    If this app highlights the price savings with going with Amazon then let me suggest for your online game plan to focus on the best sellers on Amazon that show considerable price savings (over 30% and higher) and then develop review sites based on the product and category keywords that involve these products.

    This way you are going after the growing audience that come to these specific product pages due to this app.
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
    This isn't an either/or proposition, here's why:

    It's snowing out, the wind is howling and you really don't want to go outside for anything. Then you realize you just used the last diaper, and the spares you keep in the diaper bag are gone too.

    So...

    You bundle up and risk life and limb to get to the store to get more diapers. As you reach for the shelf you think, "I'll be darned if I'm ever going to let this happen again!" You then reach into your pocket and scan the code on the diapers with the Amazon app, and get a great deal because you set up an auto-ship deal.

    BUT...you still get the diapers that you need right now.

    (You are taking care of your present needs and your future needs at the same time.)

    Also, even with auto-ship, there is a very high chance that there will still be times that you need to get diapers at the store.

    I think such an arrangement favors Amazon, but not completely. When referring to consumable goods, there will always be a need to have physical locations to buy those goods.

    All the best,
    Michael
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  • Profile picture of the author Cheryl Hines
    I agree with Michael - there are times when you by locally and times when you by online. In these tougher economic times, folks are pinching pennies everywhere.

    And since this is all in light of cutting into affiliate sales, if I were an affiliate marketer referring to Amazon, I wouldn't be dealing in diapers at all. You're right. Eventually a smart shopper would just begin their search on Amazon, not on your review site.

    But there are plenty of other folks who do type in "best noise cancelling headphone", for example, and will read review articles that lead to Amazon. there are plenty of dedicated Amazon affiliates that quietly makes thousands of dollars a month on these sites.

    Amazon is just part of the shopper's choice now. People remember the mom and pop stores and how they have gone out of business because of Walmart or Target moving into the neighborhood. Sad but true. But now Walmart has some serious competition.

    Times marches on and we still need to buy diapers, TP, shoes, head phones, etc... As a shopper, I like the idea that I can choose where to spend my hard earned dollars.
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