ran into millions of quality email/names from an employee at my company (legally!)

20 replies
My friend said he has a huge list of around 6 months old. Its a bunch of lists really, and most are connected in the investment industry, some are other industries...

He figures it should be worth something and is going to sell it to me for a few hundred dollars. Just wondering legally and ethically what would be some good ways to utilize such a list??

Since as far as I know its unethical to create a huge email list with people who never opted in on their own.
#company #email or names #employee #legally #millions #quality #ran
  • Profile picture of the author tpw
    The list is so old, I am not sure I would be too quick to jump on it.

    You also don't know the source of the lists, so that would also be a problem for me.

    I cannot speak to the ethics or legality of using such a list.
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  • Profile picture of the author Cru
    Originally Posted by ttrance View Post

    My friend said he has a huge list of around 6 months old. Its a bunch of lists really, and most are connected in the investment industry, some are other industries...

    He figures it should be worth something and is going to sell it to me for a few hundred dollars. Just wondering legally and ethically what would be some good ways to utilize such a list??

    Since as far as I know its unethical to create a huge email list with people who never opted in on their own.
    First of all, where did he get the list. Did he steal it from your company? If so, I wouldn't touch it.

    Secondly, unsolicited email isn't legal in the US unless you include a bunch of personal/company information about yourself in the email as well as provide an unsubscribe so if you decide to go ahead with it, just be very cautious in what you write in your email copy.
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    • Profile picture of the author Robert H Cwik
      Originally Posted by ttrance View Post

      My friend said he has a huge list of around 6 months old. Its a bunch of lists really, and most are connected in the investment industry, some are other industries...

      He figures it should be worth something and is going to sell it to me for a few hundred dollars. Just wondering legally and ethically what would be some good ways to utilize such a list??

      Since as far as I know its unethical to create a huge email list with people who never opted in on their own.
      Originally Posted by Cru View Post

      First of all, where did he get the list. Did he steal it from your company? If so, I wouldn't touch it.

      Secondly, unsolicited email isn't legal in the US unless you include a bunch of personal/company information about yourself in the email as well as provide an unsubscribe so if you decide to go ahead with it, just be very cautious in what you write in your email copy.
      I personally wouldn't even look at that list either. I think making those e-mails available to anybody IS the violation of the company's "privacy policy" and the Personal Data Protection Act (or whatever the law is called in your country). If you get caught, you risk your employment at least, and so does your friend.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kal Sallam
    Try to get as much more information about those lists and see if it is a good investment.
    I think the more information you collect will determine if there is any legal issues in your way.
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    • Profile picture of the author Robert H Cwik
      Originally Posted by Kal Sallam View Post

      Try to get as much more information about those lists and see if it is a good investment.
      I think the more information you collect will determine if there is any legal issues in your way.
      There will always be legal issues because those people provided their e-mail addresses for a specific purpose, not for being sold.

      I can't even imagine what the company could do to two guys who put its goodwill and reputation in danger.

      The slightest punishment would be have those two guys work there till retirement without salary.
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      • Profile picture of the author Azarna
        If you use these, and do the usual 'I promise never to sell your emails' etc - they are not going to believe a word of it, as they will wonder how you got it in the first place etc
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  • Profile picture of the author bigbucks9
    Six months is considered old for an email list?
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  • Profile picture of the author ttrance
    lol you guys have very funny responses!! haha! Everything here is legal completely. I deal with certain IT people that often have tons of older stuff he is given full permission to do whatever he wants with, which includes a lot of databases. So he has just scrapped together a huge amount, which is complete legal. What are you going to tell me, to know the name and email of someone is illegal? If perhaps it has sensitive info, but this is legal and he would never include any sensitive data, only data that would be useful for marketing. However the question is how to properly proceed.

    One thing is for sure neither one of us would ever want any data to fall into any spammers hands!
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    • Profile picture of the author lastreporter
      Originally Posted by ttrance View Post

      lol you guys have very funny responses!! haha! Everything here is legal completely. I deal with certain IT people that often have tons of older stuff he is given full permission to do whatever he wants with, which includes a lot of databases. So he has just scrapped together a huge amount, which is complete legal. What are you going to tell me, to know the name and email of someone is illegal? If perhaps it has sensitive info, but this is legal and he would never include any sensitive data, only data that would be useful for marketing. However the question is how to properly proceed.

      One thing is for sure neither one of us would ever want any data to fall into any spammers hands!
      You should really consider reading the advice you already were given. It was solid.
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    • Profile picture of the author PatriciaJ
      Originally Posted by ttrance View Post


      One thing is for sure neither one of us would ever want any data to fall into any spammers hands!
      Wouldn't you become a spammer if you mailed this list without the people on it giving YOU permission by opting into YOUR list
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  • Profile picture of the author ttrance
    I have people email me all the time randomly, sometimes good things come of it. Emailing to a specific group of people is not spamming, spamming is spamming. Offering great value to someone and giving them the future option of continuing to receive it would not be considered spamming for example.

    I have worked in ethical IT for over 15 years and its a joke to hear the idea of obtaining large lists of basic user data and trying to make some use out of it as a bad thing... Please. If someone went out and over a year collected many good email addresses of people interested in something I have, it is legal to email them and ask them anything I want. Its legal to do anything you want practically as long as its not spamming or phishing or something else 'evil'.
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    • Profile picture of the author Cru
      Originally Posted by ttrance View Post

      My friend said he has a huge list of around 6 months old. Its a bunch of lists really, and most are connected in the investment industry, some are other industries...

      He figures it should be worth something and is going to sell it to me for a few hundred dollars. Just wondering legally and ethically what would be some good ways to utilize such a list??

      Since as far as I know its unethical to create a huge email list with people who never opted in on their own.
      Above is your first post and below is your most recent post.

      Originally Posted by ttrance View Post

      I have people email me all the time randomly, sometimes good things come of it. Emailing to a specific group of people is not spamming, spamming is spamming. Offering great value to someone and giving them the future option of continuing to receive it would not be considered spamming for example.

      I have worked in ethical IT for over 15 years and its a joke to hear the idea of obtaining large lists of basic user data and trying to make some use out of it as a bad thing... Please. If someone went out and over a year collected many good email addresses of people interested in something I have, it is legal to email them and ask them anything I want. Its legal to do anything you want practically as long as its not spamming or phishing or something else 'evil'.
      No offense but why would you come in here asking for our opinions? You ask about the legality and ethics of the situation and then when we give you our opinions you laugh at us because you have worked in ethical IT (whatever that means) for over 15 years. It would appear you are more qualified to answer this question than any of us.

      Originally Posted by ttrance View Post

      lol you guys have very funny responses!! haha! Everything here is legal completely. I deal with certain IT people that often have tons of older stuff he is given full permission to do whatever he wants with, which includes a lot of databases. So he has just scrapped together a huge amount, which is complete legal. What are you going to tell me, to know the name and email of someone is illegal? If perhaps it has sensitive info, but this is legal and he would never include any sensitive data, only data that would be useful for marketing. However the question is how to properly proceed.

      One thing is for sure neither one of us would ever want any data to fall into any spammers hands!
      First of all, I don't believe you when you say this. Why would a company ever hand over a database full of emails because they are old and give one of their employees permission to do anything he wants with it. This isn't an old PC that is going to go in the trash, this is people's personal information (yes, an email address is personal information). If this is on the up and up please post the companies name. I also reside in Toronto and I'd like to make sure that I don't do business with anyone who would take such a lackadaisical approach to protecting my privacy.

      Please read this and pay attention to the part I have bolded:
      Email Marketing Laws, Can Spam Act, Personal Information Protection and Electronic Documents Act (PIPEDA) Canada - Canada's Web Shop

      When collecting personal information, the collecting party must obtain permission from the individual and inform them as to the reason for the collection of said data. This information is to be kept securely using a level of protection appropriate to the information being held by the party to which it is given. Also, it is to be used solely for the purpose for which it was given. This means that businesses may not collect information such as an email address for a particular purpose and then transfer it to a sister company for an entirely different purpose. It cannot legally be transferred or used by other parties in any way unless in certain special circumstances and that the person whose information it is has the legal right to request viewing of any information held about them and the right to edit it as well.
      I am sure one of the reasons that your company collected this data was NOT for it to be sold, which is what your friend would be doing.
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  • Profile picture of the author ttrance
    unless in certain special circumstances and that the person whose information it is has the legal right to request viewing of any information held about them and the right to edit it as well.
    you can legally email people and offer them to opt out of any future email.

    Any data is with a friend who is not even anywhere close to Canada. It seems in Canada and the US you need a lawyer to see if there is a safe way to utilize something like this. Its sad such good data may go to waste.
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  • Profile picture of the author ttrance
    and I asked him about how he aquired it and since he is a system admin he has been collecting it for sites he has been running and being the admin of over years. So if he is in the US or Canada it seems to be illegal. I just find this very hard to believe. What is the difference between this and selling 'accounts' of facebook etc which is really the same thing in fancy wrapping. A list of targetted people that you bought from someone's hard work...
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    • Profile picture of the author Cru
      Originally Posted by ttrance View Post

      you can legally email people and offer them to opt out of any future email.

      Any data is with a friend who is not even anywhere close to Canada. It seems in Canada and the US you need a lawyer to see if there is a safe way to utilize something like this. Its sad such good data may go to waste.
      I am not a lawyer but here is how I am reading it:

      It is against the law to email them for reasons other than what they've agreed to when they opted into the account. If they opted in to receive email updates on company X's products, unless your products are company X's you cannot email them. It's all in the wording of the opt-in agreement that the people signing up have agreed to. Again, unless they agreed that one of the things Company X could do with their account is sell it then you cannot legally buy this list from your friend. It is legal to transfer the list without a change of cash but again, it can only be used for the reasons outlined in the opt-in.

      Originally Posted by ttrance View Post

      and I asked him about how he aquired it and since he is a system admin he has been collecting it for sites he has been running and being the admin of over years. So if he is in the US or Canada it seems to be illegal. I just find this very hard to believe. What is the difference between this and selling 'accounts' of facebook etc which is really the same thing in fancy wrapping. A list of targetted people that you bought from someone's hard work...
      I am not sure about the legality here, but I know if I took my company's customer list and sold it for a couple hundred bucks it would be grounds for termination. As well, if it could be proven that it caused harm to the company (IE. shines the company in a bad light in the media, customers leave the company, etc.) your friend could very well be liable for damages. That much I am sure of.

      Also, usually people selling facebook accounts are selling actual accounts that would be controlled by the purchaser, not lists of names of accounts of real people. For instance if someone wants 1000 facebook accounts so they can build backlinks, etc. it is not illegal, but it is against the TOS of Facebook.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ash R
    Legally: you can email someone out of the blue, as long as you have an unsubscribe option, that's not spam. Disclaimer: I'm no lawyer, this is only personal opinion, etc

    Ethics: I won't go there.

    Profits: (the most important aspect!)

    From a profit perspective, I wouldn't touch this list. I do permission-based marketing, and I'm moving more and more towards only dealing with people who like to get emails from me (and therefore like to buy from me!). When people like me, and like to buy from me, it makes my life easier. I'm all about being lazy while earning.

    What you're planning to do is called "mass mailing" aka "spamming" - legally it might not be, but to get advice on how to do this, you would have to visit certain dark corners of IM. And I can tell you (I have dodgy friends, lol ) that setting this up, getting it working, making money, etc - it's not that easy. Permission based marketing is much easier.

    I would really advise you not to do this. You can buy email lists just about anywhere. Your ROI will be much, much better if you spend your money elsewhere.

    Your friend might be able to sell these lists in the certain dark corners I mentioned. But those guys are experienced, know what they're doing and have the setup. And they'd know what the list is really worth.

    You say "it's sad that such data may go to waste". I'm sure your friend will find a way to profit by selling to those experienced guys.

    Trust me: when it comes to waste, you will waste more time, effort and money by trying to get this working. It's like buying a broke car for $500 because it's a bargain, then spending $5000 and a month's worth of work trying to get it running.
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  • Profile picture of the author Isaiah Jackson
    Like everyone in here already said, I wouldn't even touch the list it doesn't have a direct relationship to you at all and they don't know you.

    There are also other reasons why I wouldn't touch for reasons fellow warriors have mentioned above.
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  • Profile picture of the author E. Brian Rose
    It is amazing how many folks here have no idea about an industry called "lead generation". The term "we promise not to sell your email address" is never uttered in this industry. It is a GIVEN that your name will be sold, rented, or leased if you provide it to a lead generator. This is not illegal or unethical. It is a business.

    MILLIONS of businesses utilize lead generators every day. Without knowing where the leads the OP is talking about came from, you should not pass judgment about the legality or moral ethics of buying and selling these leads.

    Leads are a commodity. They always have been and always will be. The "I don't like it so it must be illegal" mentality has no place here.
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  • Profile picture of the author Tim_Carter
    Just be sure to comply with the Canspam act.

    Having said that, you likely don't have high quality leads here. I wouldn't pay much if I were you. Mind you I generate my own lists and always have.

    Now you have relationship marketing which is far more effective.
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    • Profile picture of the author E. Brian Rose
      Originally Posted by Tim_Carter View Post

      Mind you I generate my own lists and always have.

      Now you have relationship marketing which is far more effective.
      We are talking apples and oranges. Lead generation companies deal in bulk... millions upon millions of names gathered for the sole reason of selling to other businesses. LG companies are not about sending quality content and building relationships.
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